Snapbacks and Handshakes: The 2017 Draft (Raps pick #23)

[CoachJReturns]

He has the freakish length
He has the good college stats
He has the good character and experience
He is older

Powell
Poeltl
Wright
Siakam
Hell even Daniels
Wasn't chosen for the offense but there length and defense. Character and work ethic

This is exactly a Masai pic. If nailed the shooting in the workout then increase chances more

Should we take some sort of And 1 bets or something on the matter? I really can't see him being the choice here, but I've been wrong before. I mean I never thought anyone would be stupid enough to pass on Iggy and Josh Smith for a fat center like Hoffa but...
You're right that his odds would increase if he looked great shooting in his workout. Of course, any guy who's brought in for a workout and shows improvement in an area that was previously not a strength will improve their chances. That's just common sense.

Let's do a header bet i know you wanna rebuild. I'll put a fire Masai and Casey header lol

But I feel too confident about.

Lol. Just a tank header works. I don't even want Masai fired, I just want him to accept the limitations of this roster/core.
Any requests for my header?
I'll have to figure out how to do a header since I never made one here before. lol.

[HeadtopChunes]

Okay I watched 3 SMU games between yesterday and today here's what I think about Semi.

What to like:
3pt shooting his form is good and reliable (release might need to be quickened) but it will translate fine. Looks good on the catch and shoot and the pick and pop.

Mid range shooting: he can stroke it from midrange usually off a pick and pop.

He was never afraid to shoot and stayed within the offense even when getting blown out.

Sets good hard picks.

Good at driving hard to the basket and getting contact. Gets lots of FTs.

Definitely a Lob threat.

Low turnovers.

Passes to the open man and plays within the offense most of the time.

Offensive rebounding is good gets 1-2 putbacks a game.

Could score well in ISO situations.

Defense: I feel alot better about Semis defense after watching the games. He is fundamentally sound and rarely makes mistakes.
Excellent job at Ball/Lane denial.
Looks elite at closing out on 3pt shooters. Moves very fast but very controlled.
Does well on switches can keep up with PGs or deny penetration.

SMU plays heavy zone and Semi was playing center for certain time periods. I don't think I ever saw him reach in once and does a good job of avoiding fouls.

Intangible: Semi really shines here. In fact he fits Popovichs "over himself" type well. Semi works hard, plays within himself, doesn't get too high or low. He doesn't take heat check shots or get flashy he also doesn't get frustrated when being blown out. He's like PJ in that he's always encouraging his teammates. Semi is also an honor role student and volunteers at homeless shelter.



What needs is improvement

Doesn't use his athleticism as much as he should. He plays similar to Ibaka. This might be a consequence of SMUs Offense. Semi was never or rarely used as a roll man or cutter. In fact he spent most of his time in post, setting screens or making a play.

SMU is like the Raptors in which they walk the ball upcourt and play a very slow pace. Semi didn't run out in transition for easy buckets either. So I can't tell if its the system or semi here.

Needs to work on defensive rebounding. Semi is usually content to just box out instead of going for the board. He needs to grab them as sometimes this leads to offensive boards.

Can't protect the rim. Semi tries but is often too short to protect the rim properly. His timing on blocks is usually off by a small amount. Idk if you can fix that.

His handle needs to get tighter. Drives need diversifying.

Has trouble finishing against length and size. Semi needs to adapt to a more controlled finishes. Floater game would be nice.

Sometimes slow to recognize off screen switches. While this did happen 2-3 times a game I think it was kinda overblown.




To sum up,

Ojeleye is a versatile player who plays within himself and demonstrates high character and work ethic. He has some problems but not really any major holes. Great teammate and good leader. I can see a good 3nD forward one day. I think he can play SF just fine but he needs some adjustments. His intangibles are great and I don't think he's done developing even though he played 4 years at college he only got minutes this last one. He certainly has the work ethic to improve.

Would I take him at 23? I would only if I was confident he could play SF. He's not number 1 on my board but he's there.

Nice post. This is one of the more balanced and fair reviews of a prospect I've come across and easily one of the better ones on our forum. Glad you saw good things defensively. Sounds like you watched a guy who will be a solid cog in a defense and be a very playable role player. Not necessarily a defensive juggernaut, but a good team defender.
I agree that his shot looks good from what I've seen. You're probably right that it's not terribly quick, but he would be shooting more open 3s so he should be at least okay.
I don't know what the track record is of mediocre collegiate rebounders becoming good NBA rebounders. That seems like something that would be apparent by now, but if he improved in that area it would be a big plus.

Again, good write up overall. If you have time to do any more please do so. This board doesn't get enough balanced opinions on prospects. Mostly we get guys pushing their selections by exaggerating their strengths and completely minimizing their weaknesses.

Thanks. Yeah I tried to be as fair as possible. I'm with you on that he'll never be a defensive stopper. But valuable team defender. Coupled with his offensive skills it's not a bad thing.

You are right in rebounding staying a consistent skill. It very rarely improves. His rebounding is something that I'm not sure about usually it was him just not trying rather than the lack of ability.He was also more active on the boards in tournament games (9.25 TRBs vs 6.8 on the season) but this could be sample size.

Overall I like Semi as a prospect and I think he can excel under the right Coach.

[OAKLEY_2]

Yo, Swanigan's working out with the Raps tomorrow? That's dope. I'm telling y'all, the team needs a player of his skill as a big.

Another average skills player with a history of carrying so much weight so young. Sully II. Pass.

Sully is probably his closest comparison. To be fair though, a healthy and productive Sully is not bad value in our range. The main thing will be if Swanigan can continue to shoot the 3 ball well at the next level. Not saying I really want us to draft someone that slow, but he's fairly skilled for a big man. Shoot, post up, pass, rebound. His defense will be truly awful though.

Could we not get Sully on the megacheap? Sadly all broken down he looked worse than Bennett. Healthy he is an alright player. Seemed like a great teamate LOL.

[OAKLEY_2]

Overall I like Semi as a prospect and I think he can excel under the right Coach.

That ends that.

[OAKLEY_2]

Sully is probably his closest comparison. To be fair though, a healthy and productive Sully is not bad value in our range. The main thing will be if Swanigan can continue to shoot the 3 ball well at the next level. Not saying I really want us to draft someone that slow, but he's fairly skilled for a big man. Shoot, post up, pass, rebound. His defense will be truly awful though.

He's a poor man's Sully. Sully was dominating in Ohio and a legitimate lottery pick. If he could control his weight he's a starting PF.

There’s a lot more than weight holding Sullinger back. His only real positive and useful skill is rebounding (his passing isn’t that useful given how he’s used offensively). Inefficient bigs who play poor defense aren’t exactly valuable.

So I guess you want JV's multiple millions moved then?

[OAKLEY_2]

Sully is probably his closest comparison. To be fair though, a healthy and productive Sully is not bad value in our range. The main thing will be if Swanigan can continue to shoot the 3 ball well at the next level. Not saying I really want us to draft someone that slow, but he's fairly skilled for a big man. Shoot, post up, pass, rebound. His defense will be truly awful though.

He's a poor man's Sully. Sully was dominating in Ohio and a legitimate lottery pick. If he could control his weight he's a starting PF.

I think Swanigan has a better feel for the game than Sullinger.

I guess we'll find out when Swani averages 11 points and 8 boards. If Sully didn't have a putrid 27% from 3 shooting I might consider him for a get your rep back retro bargain.

[CoachJReturns]

Okay I watched 3 SMU games between yesterday and today here's what I think about Semi.

What to like:
3pt shooting his form is good and reliable (release might need to be quickened) but it will translate fine. Looks good on the catch and shoot and the pick and pop.

Mid range shooting: he can stroke it from midrange usually off a pick and pop.

He was never afraid to shoot and stayed within the offense even when getting blown out.

Sets good hard picks.

Good at driving hard to the basket and getting contact. Gets lots of FTs.

Definitely a Lob threat.

Low turnovers.

Passes to the open man and plays within the offense most of the time.

Offensive rebounding is good gets 1-2 putbacks a game.

Could score well in ISO situations.

Defense: I feel alot better about Semis defense after watching the games. He is fundamentally sound and rarely makes mistakes.
Excellent job at Ball/Lane denial.
Looks elite at closing out on 3pt shooters. Moves very fast but very controlled.
Does well on switches can keep up with PGs or deny penetration.

SMU plays heavy zone and Semi was playing center for certain time periods. I don't think I ever saw him reach in once and does a good job of avoiding fouls.

Intangible: Semi really shines here. In fact he fits Popovichs "over himself" type well. Semi works hard, plays within himself, doesn't get too high or low. He doesn't take heat check shots or get flashy he also doesn't get frustrated when being blown out. He's like PJ in that he's always encouraging his teammates. Semi is also an honor role student and volunteers at homeless shelter.



What needs is improvement

Doesn't use his athleticism as much as he should. He plays similar to Ibaka. This might be a consequence of SMUs Offense. Semi was never or rarely used as a roll man or cutter. In fact he spent most of his time in post, setting screens or making a play.

SMU is like the Raptors in which they walk the ball upcourt and play a very slow pace. Semi didn't run out in transition for easy buckets either. So I can't tell if its the system or semi here.

Needs to work on defensive rebounding. Semi is usually content to just box out instead of going for the board. He needs to grab them as sometimes this leads to offensive boards.

Can't protect the rim. Semi tries but is often too short to protect the rim properly. His timing on blocks is usually off by a small amount. Idk if you can fix that.

His handle needs to get tighter. Drives need diversifying.

Has trouble finishing against length and size. Semi needs to adapt to a more controlled finishes. Floater game would be nice.

Sometimes slow to recognize off screen switches. While this did happen 2-3 times a game I think it was kinda overblown.




To sum up,

Ojeleye is a versatile player who plays within himself and demonstrates high character and work ethic. He has some problems but not really any major holes. Great teammate and good leader. I can see a good 3nD forward one day. I think he can play SF just fine but he needs some adjustments. His intangibles are great and I don't think he's done developing even though he played 4 years at college he only got minutes this last one. He certainly has the work ethic to improve.

Would I take him at 23? I would only if I was confident he could play SF. He's not number 1 on my board but he's there.

Nice post. This is one of the more balanced and fair reviews of a prospect I've come across and easily one of the better ones on our forum. Glad you saw good things defensively. Sounds like you watched a guy who will be a solid cog in a defense and be a very playable role player. Not necessarily a defensive juggernaut, but a good team defender.
I agree that his shot looks good from what I've seen. You're probably right that it's not terribly quick, but he would be shooting more open 3s so he should be at least okay.
I don't know what the track record is of mediocre collegiate rebounders becoming good NBA rebounders. That seems like something that would be apparent by now, but if he improved in that area it would be a big plus.

Again, good write up overall. If you have time to do any more please do so. This board doesn't get enough balanced opinions on prospects. Mostly we get guys pushing their selections by exaggerating their strengths and completely minimizing their weaknesses.

Thanks. Yeah I tried to be as fair as possible. I'm with you on that he'll never be a defensive stopper. But valuable team defender. Coupled with his offensive skills it's not a bad thing.

You are right in rebounding staying a consistent skill. It very rarely improves. His rebounding is something that I'm not sure about usually it was him just not trying rather than the lack of ability.He was also more active on the boards in tournament games (9.25 TRBs vs 6.8 on the season) but this could be sample size.

Overall I like Semi as a prospect and I think he can excel under the right Coach.

Too bad Stack isn't taking over as head coach and will likely be somewhere else next year.

[HeadtopChunes]

Too bad Stack isn't taking over as head coach and will likely be somewhere else next year.

Maybe, I don't know where he would go. NBA coaching looks set for now. Maybe if a college offers him a chance. I don't see him leaving to be an assistant somewhere else. Regardless I like our development staff I think any prospect we chose should be in good hands. I expect our pick to spend a majority of time with the 905 anyway.

[Rapcity_11]

He's a poor man's Sully. Sully was dominating in Ohio and a legitimate lottery pick. If he could control his weight he's a starting PF.

There’s a lot more than weight holding Sullinger back. His only real positive and useful skill is rebounding (his passing isn’t that useful given how he’s used offensively). Inefficient bigs who play poor defense aren’t exactly valuable.

So I guess you want JV's multiple millions moved then?

Yup. But also note that JV isn’t inefficient so it’s not that comparable.

[PhilBlackson]

Another average skills player with a history of carrying so much weight so young. Sully II. Pass.

Sully is probably his closest comparison. To be fair though, a healthy and productive Sully is not bad value in our range. The main thing will be if Swanigan can continue to shoot the 3 ball well at the next level. Not saying I really want us to draft someone that slow, but he's fairly skilled for a big man. Shoot, post up, pass, rebound. His defense will be truly awful though.

He's a poor man's Sully. Sully was dominating in Ohio and a legitimate lottery pick. If he could control his weight he's a starting PF.

Sully in a way is a bit of an unfair comparison because you immediately start thinking of weight problems.

When in reality Caleb has gotten slimmer and slimmer every season. His weight issues were when he was in HS he was morbidly obese but since then he found the right guidance he's been like a man possessed and as I said shed more and more weight each year which can't be said for Sullinger.

Further to that calling him a poor man's Sully makes no sense when he is doing BETTER statiscally than Jared did. Keep in mind in Jared's second year he was a year older than Caleb as Swanigan entered college EARLY. Caleb is actually the age of most FRESHMAN. If anything Caleb is the richman's version of Sully....

2nd year stats:

Sullinger: 17.5ppg, 9.2rpg, 53% 2pt% and 40% 3pt%
Swanigan: 18.5ppg, 12.5rpg 54% 2pt% and 44.7% 3pt% literally better in every stat

Caleb is everything Sullinger should have become with some dedication to his weight. Swanigan actually is said to have the 2nd lowest body fat percentage on his team...watch n learn

Watch on YouTube

I'm not saying I want Caleb because I still don't like his lateral speed on defence but I think he is getting an unfair label as being the "next Sully" when in reality he will likely be better since he was better statiscally and actually is showing the dedication to his diet. Not to mention Swanigan has a better wingspan.

Also Swanigan weighed in at 246pds at the same height as Sully who came in at 268pds. That is a HUGE difference in weight...it's an unfair label really.

[HeadtopChunes]

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[Kevin Willis]

Sully is probably his closest comparison. To be fair though, a healthy and productive Sully is not bad value in our range. The main thing will be if Swanigan can continue to shoot the 3 ball well at the next level. Not saying I really want us to draft someone that slow, but he's fairly skilled for a big man. Shoot, post up, pass, rebound. His defense will be truly awful though.

He's a poor man's Sully. Sully was dominating in Ohio and a legitimate lottery pick. If he could control his weight he's a starting PF.

Sully in a way is a bit of an unfair comparison because you immediately start thinking of weight problems.

When in reality Caleb has gotten slimmer and slimmer every season. His weight issues were when he was in HS he was morbidly obese but since then he found the right guidance he's been like a man possessed and as I said shed more and more weight each year which can't be said for Sullinger.

Further to that calling him a poor man's Sully makes no sense when he is doing BETTER statiscally than Jared did. Keep in mind in Jared's second year he was a year older than Caleb as Swanigan entered college EARLY. Caleb is actually the age of most FRESHMAN. If anything Caleb is the richman's version of Sully....

2nd year stats:

Sullinger: 17.5ppg, 9.2rpg, 53% 2pt% and 40% pt3%
Swanigan: 18.5ppf, 12.5rpg 54% 2pt% and 44.7% 3pt% literally better in every stat

Caleb is everything Sullinger should have become with some dedication to his weight. Swanigan actually is said to have the 2nd lowest body fat percentage on his team...watch n learn

Watch on YouTube

I'm not saying I want Caleb because I still don't like his lateral speed on defence but I think he is getting an unfair label as being the "next Sully" when in reality he will likely be better since he was better statiscally and actually is showing the dedication to his diet. Not to mention Swanigan has a better wingspan.

Also Swanigan weighed in at 246pds at the same height as Sully who came in at 268pds. That is a HUGE difference in weight...it's an unfair label really.

Valid points. I guess my concern is that people shouldn't compare Caleb with heavy Sully. Compare Caleb with slimmer college Sully. That version of Sully was an effective inside, outside scorer with nimble feet and some range. That version of Sully was a lottery pick and in the running for player of the year.

Caleb is a slow defender with limited range and skill. Sully also had a really talented team in Sully, he wasn't the man. Slim Sully was effective in the NBA with good vision, rebounding numbers and range with solid defense. I think people are underating Sully and overating Caleb. There is a reason why their draft numbers are so different.

[PhilBlackson]

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Personally I want a higher upside guy like Bolden the 2 players that I almost guarantee will be good pros and people will say were great picks are Jawun Evans and Caleb Swanigan. I never list them on my board because again I don't like Caleb's mobility on defence and Jawun is a bit short in addition to us already having so many PGs BUT I really like Evans a lot and think he will be all but guaranteed to be one of the steals of the draft. Statiscally he is right there with DS Jr but a better distributor and just had an excellent feel for the game. I would love him as a true Lowry replacement down the line but again I just like swinging for the fences.

Also to clarify before I even say I am NOT saying he would/will be AS good but that I think Caleb in the right system can be USED LIKE Kevin Love is. The kid is an excellent rebounder and 3pt shooter. If you can mask him in the defence as Tristan and LeBron do Love, he could be an absolute steal himself. Perhaps Masai is feeling that out with the idea of Ibaka and Tucker doing that for Caleb...just saying.

[PhilBlackson]

He's a poor man's Sully. Sully was dominating in Ohio and a legitimate lottery pick. If he could control his weight he's a starting PF.

Sully in a way is a bit of an unfair comparison because you immediately start thinking of weight problems.

When in reality Caleb has gotten slimmer and slimmer every season. His weight issues were when he was in HS he was morbidly obese but since then he found the right guidance he's been like a man possessed and as I said shed more and more weight each year which can't be said for Sullinger.

Further to that calling him a poor man's Sully makes no sense when he is doing BETTER statiscally than Jared did. Keep in mind in Jared's second year he was a year older than Caleb as Swanigan entered college EARLY. Caleb is actually the age of most FRESHMAN. If anything Caleb is the richman's version of Sully....

2nd year stats:

Sullinger: 17.5ppg, 9.2rpg, 53% 2pt% and 40% pt3%
Swanigan: 18.5ppf, 12.5rpg 54% 2pt% and 44.7% 3pt% literally better in every stat

Caleb is everything Sullinger should have become with some dedication to his weight. Swanigan actually is said to have the 2nd lowest body fat percentage on his team...watch n learn

Watch on YouTube

I'm not saying I want Caleb because I still don't like his lateral speed on defence but I think he is getting an unfair label as being the "next Sully" when in reality he will likely be better since he was better statiscally and actually is showing the dedication to his diet. Not to mention Swanigan has a better wingspan.

Also Swanigan weighed in at 246pds at the same height as Sully who came in at 268pds. That is a HUGE difference in weight...it's an unfair label really.

Valid points. I guess my concern is that people shouldn't compare Caleb with heavy Sully. Compare Caleb with slimmer college Sully. That version of Sully was an effective inside, outside scorer with nimble feet and some range. That version of Sully was a lottery pick and in the running for player of the year.

Caleb is a slow defender with limited range and skill. Sully also had a really talented team in Sully, he wasn't the man. Slim Sully was effective in the NBA with good vision, rebounding numbers and range with solid defense. I think people are underating Sully and overating Caleb. There is a reason why their draft numbers are so different.

Another odd statement because perhaps you don't recall but Sullinger went 21st overall?!

If we took Caleb he would be 23rd lol...not much of a difference there.

I also just listed the weights of each player at the combine which would be "college Sully" and he was 24 pounds heavier than Caleb is now despite the fact that Sullinger's weight continues to increase where as Caleb's continues to decrease. The only thing I can really give you is that Sully played on a slightly better team (OS record 31-8) vs Caleb (Purdue 27-8) but again not really world's apart there.

The other ironic thing is you mention being in the running for player of the year which I don't think Sully was in his second year meanwhile Caleb was this year and actually won the Pac10 player of the year. I just think it's a bit strawman this whole arguement against Caleb because he's also doing this at a younger age and again is the player that is improving and not regressing like Sully did. All the stats, age, weight etc seem to be in clear favor of Swanigan here.

[MavCarter]

Swanigan looks like he'll be a mo speights kind of player tbh

[Kevin Willis]

Sully is probably his closest comparison. To be fair though, a healthy and productive Sully is not bad value in our range. The main thing will be if Swanigan can continue to shoot the 3 ball well at the next level. Not saying I really want us to draft someone that slow, but he's fairly skilled for a big man. Shoot, post up, pass, rebound. His defense will be truly awful though.

He's a poor man's Sully. Sully was dominating in Ohio and a legitimate lottery pick. If he could control his weight he's a starting PF.

I think Swanigan has a better feel for the game than Sullinger.

I have to disagree. Review some of Sully's games in Ohio and his slimmer games in Boston. He has a high BBIQ. Smart rebounder with good position using his Lowry booty to carve out space.

Anyways we're not picking Caleb so it's a mute point for me. Siakam is getting better at rebounding. Jacob is a very good positional rebounder. JV and Ibaka are solid. All 4 are better defenders. Jacob and Ibaka have some range. Completely ignoring Bebe too. I like him to take a look at him in workouts because trades can change the team and make his skill needed but I can't see why we would draft him to our team when other prospects are as good and can fill a greater need. Face it, Caleb is getting no minutes next year as part of the Raptors.

[MavCarter]

Has bolden done any workouts for anyone?

[HeadtopChunes]

Has bolden done any workouts for anyone?

He's not going to. His season runs until mid June. So teams have to go see him.

[BoyzNTheHood]

People don't want to make the comparison for a couple of reasons:

1) Players of different skin colour don't seem to be comparable to most folks.
2) They think the skill level of one player is much higher than the other (especially in a scenario like this).

But...

Swanigan compares to Kevin Love. Similar size players with a nose for rebounds, who have struggled with weight issues, can shoot the 3 at a high clip, can score in a variety of ways, but leave something to be desired on defense.

Honestly, I can't see us taking Swanigan a year after Jakob unless he absolutely dominates workouts. But I wouldn't mind if Swanigan were the pick at all.

[PhilBlackson]

Has bolden done any workouts for anyone?

Pretty sure his team is still playing until some time in June or something?!

As aside for the people saying Josh Hart, I'll say it again he won't be anything special (hence why I rather not draft him) because he is a combo guard with no elite skill or physical attributes but he would be an ideal pick for a team like CLE that needs a guard to come in and help with the ballhandling duties much like how they wish Deron Williams could do for them. On our team, we have an overload of guards and we already have a better combo guard in Powell so I pass on Hart all day. Preferably we find a higher upside guy like Bolden, OG or Hartenstein to fill in that SF/PF gap.