Shams: Lillard to Milwaukee in three team deal

[WuTang_CMB]

I think they just thought his shooting would age better than Jrue's D.

But I agree with the other comments that Giannis is probably the one that forced their hands anyways to trade for Dame.

At the end of the day, none of it matters if Giannis is not healthy.

They were already a great team. Complete misfire of a deal by them. They didn't know what they had with Jrue when the rest of the league did

They just couldn't get back to the finals with Jrue, and that's why Giannis and the team went for the Dame play. With Jrue, they would have continued to be a dominant regular season team, only to fail in the playoffs, as they had no way to replace what Middleton brought to the team.

I don't know what you aren't getting. Jrue wasn't the problem for them. He was a really good 2 way PG who elevated in the playoffs. They went after Dame who played no defense but a lights out scorer. Where are you getting any better? Their focus was to look at Middleton who continually was injured for them the last few years.

[TheGeneral99]

Lillard isn't any younger. Hindsight 2020 but the move backfired

I think they just thought his shooting would age better than Jrue's D.

But I agree with the other comments that Giannis is probably the one that forced their hands anyways to trade for Dame.

At the end of the day, none of it matters if Giannis is not healthy.

They were already a great team. Complete misfire of a deal by them. They didn't know what they had with Jrue when the rest of the league did

You may be right but your conclusion is misguided because Giannis was hurt and missed the playoffs so we have no idea what would have actually occurred had he been healthy.

If Giannis was healthy the Bucks may have beat the Celtics in the playoffs and won the title which would completely change your conclusion.

I think they knew what they had in Jrue but they also needed a 4th quarter closer given that Giannis isn't a guy who you can rely on at the end of the game as an iso scorer. The Bucks had very disappointing post-seasons in 2022 and 2023.

What if Kawhi got hurt in 2019 and missed the playoffs? We would be saying that Masai made a horrible trade, it was a big misfire and a waste, but he didn't get hurt and the Raptors won.

[WuTang_CMB]

I think they just thought his shooting would age better than Jrue's D.

But I agree with the other comments that Giannis is probably the one that forced their hands anyways to trade for Dame.

At the end of the day, none of it matters if Giannis is not healthy.

They were already a great team. Complete misfire of a deal by them. They didn't know what they had with Jrue when the rest of the league did

You may be right but your conclusion is misguided because Giannis was hurt and missed the playoffs.

If Giannis was healthy the Bucks may have beat the Celtics in the playoffs and won the title which would completely change your conclusion.

The Bucks under Doc had a losing record of 17-19 down the stretch. There's nothing misguided. They flopped on that trade.

[LiSTWithLani]

Giannis was the one forcing the Bucks to make a big move so the Dame for Jrue trade is on him tbh lol.

100$

And now that 6x All-Defensive Jrue is about to get fitted for his 2nd ring, there is a very compelling argument towards preferring him over Dame if you're trying to win a title.

In a vacuum, it's also a compelling argument for the defensive stalwart with sub-All-Star offense archetype over an All-NBA-Offensive player that's an expert at rolling out the red carpet defensively.

In saying so, I would take an assembled team of X-Factor role players: Jrue, D.White, OG, Horford, Bobby Portis, Naz Reid, Alex Caruso, Jaden McDaniels, Mikal Bridges types.
I'd prefer watching them over the Zach Lavine, Vucevic, Lillard, Trae types.

[Tor_Raps]

Giannis was the one forcing the Bucks to make a big move so the Dame for Jrue trade is on him tbh lol.

100$

And now that 6x All-Defensive Jrue is about to get fitted for his 2nd ring, there is a very compelling argument towards preferring him over Dame if you're trying to win a title.

In a vacuum, it's also a compelling argument for the defensive stalwart with sub-All-Star offense archetype over an All-NBA-Offensive player that's an expert at rolling out the red carpet defensively.

In saying so, I would take an assembled team of X-Factor role players: Jrue, D.White, OG, Horford, Bobby Portis, Naz Reid, Alex Caruso, Jaden McDaniels, Mikal Bridges types.
I'd prefer watching them over the Zach Lavine, Vucevic, Lillard, Trae types.

Those x factor players only look good when surrounded by elite talent. Most of those guys have played for team where no one gave a crap about them such as the following and so forth:

D white - Spurs
Horford - OKC
Portis - Chicago

[Pointgod]

Lillard isn't any younger. Hindsight 2020 but the move backfired

Just way too early to say.

Jrue went to the Celtics

and even if he didn't, that move didn't get them any better especially in the playoffs where defense is highly valued

The Bucks had two playoffs to determine if Jrue would help them get where they need to go. The idea that they wouldn’t make a move to improve their team because of an independent transaction from another team doesn’t make sense, unless you’re arguing that they could have made the finals with Jrue over Dame this season.

Giannis didn’t even play in the playoffs so it’s hard to draw conclusions. I bashed the Kyrie trade last season and now the team is in the finals, it was obviously a great trade. Crazy to draw conclusions after one season.

[WuTang_CMB]

Just way too early to say.

Jrue went to the Celtics

and even if he didn't, that move didn't get them any better especially in the playoffs where defense is highly valued

The Bucks had two playoffs to determine if Jrue would help them get where they need to go. The idea that they wouldn’t make a move to improve their team because of an independent transaction from another team doesn’t make sense, unless you’re arguing that they could have made the finals with Jrue over Dame this season.

Giannis didn’t even play in the playoffs so it’s hard to draw conclusions. I bashed the Kyrie trade last season and now the team is in the finals, it was obviously a great trade. Crazy to draw conclusions after one season.

Jrue wasn't the issue though. If Lillard was a lot younger and played defense you can understand the move but so far its been a misfire. Also, the deal backfired, since their all-star PG then went to their contending team. Also wasn't just the playoffs, they regressed a lot in play from this year to last.

[JB7]

They were already a great team. Complete misfire of a deal by them. They didn't know what they had with Jrue when the rest of the league did

They just couldn't get back to the finals with Jrue, and that's why Giannis and the team went for the Dame play. With Jrue, they would have continued to be a dominant regular season team, only to fail in the playoffs, as they had no way to replace what Middleton brought to the team.

I don't know what you aren't getting. Jrue wasn't the problem for them. He was a really good 2 way PG who elevated in the playoffs. They went after Dame who played no defense but a lights out scorer. Where are you getting any better? Their focus was to look at Middleton who continually was injured for them the last few years.

Jrue was not necessarily the problem, nor was he the solution on the court. But he was the only real trade asset they had (outside of Giannis) to get them the player they thought could be the closer for the team in Dame. Middleton offered them nothing other than money that could be moved in a deal, but since they already moved all of their valuable picks, his contract is of less use in that situation.

They knew they were downgrading on D. I think they were hoping they could find some decent perimeter defenders, and then would rely on Giannis and Lopez to eliminate any scoring in the paint.

I'm sure they realized that to make it back to the Finals, they needed someone to replace what they lost with Middleton's decline/injuries.

[WuTang_CMB]

They just couldn't get back to the finals with Jrue, and that's why Giannis and the team went for the Dame play. With Jrue, they would have continued to be a dominant regular season team, only to fail in the playoffs, as they had no way to replace what Middleton brought to the team.

I don't know what you aren't getting. Jrue wasn't the problem for them. He was a really good 2 way PG who elevated in the playoffs. They went after Dame who played no defense but a lights out scorer. Where are you getting any better? Their focus was to look at Middleton who continually was injured for them the last few years.

Jrue was not necessarily the problem, nor was he the solution on the court. But he was the only real trade asset they had (outside of Giannis) to get them the player they thought could be the closer for the team in Dame. Middleton offered them nothing other than money that could be moved in a deal, but since they already moved all of their valuable picks, his contract is of less use in that situation.

They knew they were downgrading on D. I think they were hoping they could find some decent perimeter defenders, and then would rely on Giannis and Lopez to eliminate any scoring in the paint.

I'm sure they realized that to make it back to the Finals, they needed someone to replace what they lost with Middleton's decline/injuries.

Which is why you don't trade for the sake of making trades. That's what the Bucks did and knee jerked. They had a very solid 2 way PG already in place. Swapping him for a highly offensive one just for the sake of doing it wasn't the right move (which also backfired since he went to a contending team like the Celtics). If Bucks knew he was going to re-routed there, they weren't making that deal. In the end, Jrue wasn't the issue and the lack of patience so far has costed them, and that's not even including paying 3 coaches at once.

[Pointgod]

Jrue went to the Celtics

and even if he didn't, that move didn't get them any better especially in the playoffs where defense is highly valued

The Bucks had two playoffs to determine if Jrue would help them get where they need to go. The idea that they wouldn’t make a move to improve their team because of an independent transaction from another team doesn’t make sense, unless you’re arguing that they could have made the finals with Jrue over Dame this season.

Giannis didn’t even play in the playoffs so it’s hard to draw conclusions. I bashed the Kyrie trade last season and now the team is in the finals, it was obviously a great trade. Crazy to draw conclusions after one season.

Jrue wasn't the issue though. If Lillard was a lot younger and played defense you can understand the move but so far its been a misfire. Also, the deal backfired, since their all-star PG then went to their contending team. Also wasn't just the playoffs, they regressed a lot in play from this year to last.

Maybe you can argue health was the problem but Jrue didn’t do himself favors by having his shooting fall way off in the playoffs. We never got to see Giannis and Dame play and gel together. You very well could be right, but it doesn’t make sense to say it was a bad trade with all of the instability and injuries we saw with the Bucks.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Dame is much better than Jrue. That was a sensible decision. The way it went down allowed the Blazers to re-route Jrue to a contender. Teams know this kind of thing can happen and will work together to make a 3rd party return palatable. Since Giannis wanted to look like he had no blood on his hands re Jrue, the whole thing was kept too quiet. Phoenix didn't even know who they were getting. It's a one of one trade and Cronin immediately boned the Bucks by dealing Jrue to Boston. Milwaukee ended up with 49 wins with half a season of Middleton. We don't know what kind of playoff team they would have been because Giannis was out. They were pretty good, though.

[JB7]

I don't know what you aren't getting. Jrue wasn't the problem for them. He was a really good 2 way PG who elevated in the playoffs. They went after Dame who played no defense but a lights out scorer. Where are you getting any better? Their focus was to look at Middleton who continually was injured for them the last few years.

Jrue was not necessarily the problem, nor was he the solution on the court. But he was the only real trade asset they had (outside of Giannis) to get them the player they thought could be the closer for the team in Dame. Middleton offered them nothing other than money that could be moved in a deal, but since they already moved all of their valuable picks, his contract is of less use in that situation.

They knew they were downgrading on D. I think they were hoping they could find some decent perimeter defenders, and then would rely on Giannis and Lopez to eliminate any scoring in the paint.

I'm sure they realized that to make it back to the Finals, they needed someone to replace what they lost with Middleton's decline/injuries.

Which is why you don't trade for the sake of making trades. That's what the Bucks did and knee jerked. They had a very solid 2 way PG already in place. Swapping him for a highly offensive one just for the sake of doing it wasn't the right move (which also backfired since he went to a contending team like the Celtics). If Bucks knew he was going to re-routed there, they weren't making that deal. In the end, Jrue wasn't the issue and the lack of patience so far has costed them, and that's not even including paying 3 coaches at once.

The reason for the knee jerk trade is Giannis was probably threatening a trade request if they didn't. I'm sure that is where this will ultimately lead, and in Giannis' case, he doesn't want to waste any more seasons, and hence the knee jerk reaction/trade.

[WuTang_CMB]

The Bucks had two playoffs to determine if Jrue would help them get where they need to go. The idea that they wouldn’t make a move to improve their team because of an independent transaction from another team doesn’t make sense, unless you’re arguing that they could have made the finals with Jrue over Dame this season.

Giannis didn’t even play in the playoffs so it’s hard to draw conclusions. I bashed the Kyrie trade last season and now the team is in the finals, it was obviously a great trade. Crazy to draw conclusions after one season.

Jrue wasn't the issue though. If Lillard was a lot younger and played defense you can understand the move but so far its been a misfire. Also, the deal backfired, since their all-star PG then went to their contending team. Also wasn't just the playoffs, they regressed a lot in play from this year to last.

Maybe you can argue health was the problem but Jrue didn’t do himself favors by having his shooting fall way off in the playoffs. We never got to see Giannis and Dame play and gel together. You very well could be right, but it doesn’t make sense to say it was a bad trade with all of the instability and injuries we saw with the Bucks.

Wasn't just the injuries. They had a pretty mediocre regular season as well where the lack of defense at the top has really hurt the Bucks as a whole and their identity. They were pretty much unstoppable in the regular season 22-23 and ran into MIA who spanked them. But dealing Jrue, as we've seen, wasn't really the problem.

[WuTang_CMB]

Jrue was not necessarily the problem, nor was he the solution on the court. But he was the only real trade asset they had (outside of Giannis) to get them the player they thought could be the closer for the team in Dame. Middleton offered them nothing other than money that could be moved in a deal, but since they already moved all of their valuable picks, his contract is of less use in that situation.

They knew they were downgrading on D. I think they were hoping they could find some decent perimeter defenders, and then would rely on Giannis and Lopez to eliminate any scoring in the paint.

I'm sure they realized that to make it back to the Finals, they needed someone to replace what they lost with Middleton's decline/injuries.

Which is why you don't trade for the sake of making trades. That's what the Bucks did and knee jerked. They had a very solid 2 way PG already in place. Swapping him for a highly offensive one just for the sake of doing it wasn't the right move (which also backfired since he went to a contending team like the Celtics). If Bucks knew he was going to re-routed there, they weren't making that deal. In the end, Jrue wasn't the issue and the lack of patience so far has costed them, and that's not even including paying 3 coaches at once.

The reason for the knee jerk trade is Giannis was probably threatening a trade request if they didn't. I'm sure that is where this will ultimately lead, and in Giannis' case, he doesn't want to waste any more seasons, and hence the knee jerk reaction/trade.

And in the end they are worse off for it.

[bballsparkin]

Dame is much better than Jrue. That was a sensible decision. The way it went down allowed the Blazers to re-route Jrue to a contender. Teams know this kind of thing can happen and will work together to make a 3rd party return palatable. Since Giannis wanted to look like he had no blood on his hands re Jrue, the whole thing was kept too quiet. Phoenix didn't even know who they were getting. It's a one of one trade and Cronin immediately boned the Bucks by dealing Jrue to Boston. Milwaukee ended up with 49 wins with half a season of Middleton. We don't know what kind of playoff team they would have been because Giannis was out. They were pretty good, though.

Dame's a sieve defensively and aging. Jrue is aging too but his D is still top notch. Regardless the move was for Giannis. So understandable. It is Milwaukee afterall.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

https://www.sportingnews.com/ca/nba/news/joel-embiid-tweet-bucks-celtics-jrue-holiday-trade/14932b98ea2650c4b8461eba

lol we all thought it when the trade happened.

[Los_29]

100$

And now that 6x All-Defensive Jrue is about to get fitted for his 2nd ring, there is a very compelling argument towards preferring him over Dame if you're trying to win a title.

Dame is still a much better player and the same age. Even as a 3rd option, Jrue still put up mediocre percentages. What Jrue does well is all of the little things and that’s why him being in his current role is perfect for him.

Bucks would be much worse off with Jrue as opposed to Dame in my opinion.

But if they'd kept Jrue and traded Middleton for a younger wing #2 scorer, they might be better. No idea how possible that was.

Why would anyone want Middleton at this point? And why would anyone trade a young wing scorer for him? Middleton is worth more on the Bucks than anywhere else. They basically had to keep him.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Dame is much better than Jrue. That was a sensible decision. The way it went down allowed the Blazers to re-route Jrue to a contender. Teams know this kind of thing can happen and will work together to make a 3rd party return palatable. Since Giannis wanted to look like he had no blood on his hands re Jrue, the whole thing was kept too quiet. Phoenix didn't even know who they were getting. It's a one of one trade and Cronin immediately boned the Bucks by dealing Jrue to Boston. Milwaukee ended up with 49 wins with half a season of Middleton. We don't know what kind of playoff team they would have been because Giannis was out. They were pretty good, though.

Dame's a sieve defensively and aging. Jrue is aging too but his D is still top notch. Regardless the move was for Giannis. So understandable. It is Milwaukee afterall.

Dame's offensive output was still so much better than Jrue's that it doesn't matter. Dame had a significant drop-off this year, and claimed he didn't work out much to heal. Of course, did Milwaukee know that at the time? Jrue is also always banged up and was awful in the first round of the previous playoffs. I think it didn't work out and Milwaukee handled it poorly, included the bizarre decision to hire Griffin, fire Stotts, fire Griffin and then hire Doc. But does any of that really matter? Giannis didn't play in the playoffs.

[mihaic]

They were already a great team. Complete misfire of a deal by them. They didn't know what they had with Jrue when the rest of the league did

You may be right but your conclusion is misguided because Giannis was hurt and missed the playoffs.

If Giannis was healthy the Bucks may have beat the Celtics in the playoffs and won the title which would completely change your conclusion.

The Bucks under Doc had a losing record of 17-19 down the stretch. There's nothing misguided. They flopped on that trade.

They had a very good winning record under Griffin.

Perhaps Doc's system didn't work for their personnel

[mihaic]

They were already a great team. Complete misfire of a deal by them. They didn't know what they had with Jrue when the rest of the league did

You may be right but your conclusion is misguided because Giannis was hurt and missed the playoffs.

If Giannis was healthy the Bucks may have beat the Celtics in the playoffs and won the title which would completely change your conclusion.

The Bucks under Doc had a losing record of 17-19 down the stretch. There's nothing misguided. They flopped on that trade.

They had a very good winning record under Griffin.

Perhaps Doc's system didn't work for their personnel.

HOWEVER, I think they need Jrue more than Lillard, for his defence. Lillard will not win it for you anyways if he's the top go to guy and you give up too much on defense.