Snapbacks and Handshakes: The 2017 Draft (Raps pick #23)

[Mikistan]

Has bolden done any workouts for anyone?

I haven't seen any news on him - his team is still in the middle of their season right now in Serbia.

"Said a Southwest Division executive: “he’s off the radar now and starting to gain interest … watched him live in game and practice in Belgrade -- he’s a slasher and runner -- plays inside and out and shoots the three with ease. He’s improved.”"\\

[PhilBlackson]

People don't want to make the comparison for a couple of reasons:

1) Players of different skin colour don't seem to be comparable to most folks.
2) They think the skill level of one player is much higher than the other (especially in a scenario like this).

But...

Swanigan compares to Kevin Love. Similar size players with a nose for rebounds, who have struggled with weight issues, can shoot the 3 at a high clip, can score in a variety of ways, but leave something to be desired on defense.

Honestly, I can't see us taking Swanigan a year after Jakob unless he absolutely dominates workouts. But I wouldn't mind if Swanigan were the pick at all.

Careful I made the same comparison on another board and got absolutely roasted haha

I actually just mentioned that in a post above yours that perhaps Masai is contemplating using Caleb like CLE uses Love which is to use him between to very good defenders (Bron, Tristan...us Tucker, Ibaka). Obviously ours would be a poorman's version but the concept is the same. Plus I think Masai is to some degree saying the hell with defence we need shooting to stay in games with juggernauts like CLE and GSW. Caleb of course shot a blistering 44.7% from 3pt land. Combine that with the fact his incredible knack for rebounding would compensate for potentially missing JV and you can see there is at least something interesting to consider...

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

He's a poor man's Sully. Sully was dominating in Ohio and a legitimate lottery pick. If he could control his weight he's a starting PF.

I think Swanigan has a better feel for the game than Sullinger.

I have to disagree. Review some of Sully's games in Ohio and his slimmer games in Boston. He has a high BBIQ. Smart rebounder with good position using his Lowry booty to carve out space.

Anyways we're not picking Caleb so it's a mute point for me. Siakam is getting better at rebounding. Jacob is a very good positional rebounder. JV and Ibaka are solid. All 4 are better defenders. Jacob and Ibaka have some range. Completely ignoring Bebe too. I like him to take a look at him in workouts because trades can change the team and make his skill needed but I can't see why we would draft him to our team when other prospects are as good and can fill a greater need. Face it, Caleb is getting no minutes next year as part of the Raptors.

The thing I value most about Swanigan's game, and the thing that sets him apart from the rest of our bigs, is his ability to pass out of the post and from the hi-post. So, when you look at our current setup, let's say our best lineup to go up against Cleveland's lineup is as follows:

Lowry - Irving
DeRozan - Smith
Tucker - James
Ibaka - Love
Poeltl - Thompson

I don't know, I feel like we're at a disadvantage in the interior. Our rebounding is subpar. Kevin Love had his way with Ibaka in the series, and even beating him off the dribble. It remains to be seen how effective Poeltl can be in going up against Thompson. I think he has a jumpshot that he didn't show last season, so I think that could work against Thompson, in terms of keeping him off the boards. I'm less concerned about Poeltl than I am about Ibaka, though. I feel like a guy like Swanigan can compete against a Love or Thompson on the glass, and he can play with any of our bigs, aside from maybe Valanciunas. Furthermore, I actually think the fact he showed he can handle a higher usage is key for this particular team, as our offence is too guard-centric imo. Swanigan has the ability to carry some of the offensive burden because dude can pass out of the post in addition to scoring from the post. This is different than either Ibaka or Val, who don't give the ball back once they receive it for the most part.

I just like the fit with Swanigan here. But, maybe the Raps go in a different direction with the pick if it remains at 23.

I think Masai might have been hoping that Sullinger could complete that lineup with Patterson when he signed him. Maybe, he tries again with Swanigan.

[VanWest82]

The blow up is in perfect order and that's why I don't understand how you guys can't see it!?!?!? You trade DD at the draft for a rebuild package and let lowry and ibaka walk. Bottom out! Don't half ass tank, tank to the bottom where you need to be. That's how you tank. With the Leafs success it puzzles me why more don't see how it's possible. They tanked and are taking the spotlight regardless of what we do. You trade DD for your Marner....go get your Auston and then take King James down when he's past his prime. Give me hope! If I had Greak freak, I think King James is in trouble in a few years. Even with Wall and how beal played in the playoffs with his youth, I have more hope than the Raptors. And the Celtics hope is through the roof. Maybe Denis in Atlanta becomes a Kawhi type PG. I don't have any hope with this core.

...I think a lot of Derozans value comes from we win. If we're battling for 5th or even 4th I think Derozan's value goes down even if he has the same year as last season. And he relies a lot of free throws, guys! Free throws only go down from wing players, when he loses those 10 free throws a game? What is he?

Don't miss the boat...

We can argue about whether the Raptors would be 2nd, 4th, or 6th moving forward. All are possibilities depending on injuries and player development/decline. You can't pretend anymore than I can that you know which end of the spectrum we'd be most likely to be in.

But what we can say with a fair degree of certainty is that we'd be a bottom feeder for a very long time if we full on tanked. I agree that's how we'd want to do it if forced to go that route, but again, we'd be doing it without a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd level future star already on the roster. We're NOT getting that kind of player in a Derozan trade unless we luck out and draft one with whatever mid 1st we'd get in return for DD. The guy doesn't have a typical star's value due to his tricky fit and antiquated game. To think we're going to get some haul of top picks and/or young stars for him now is fantasy land. Maybe his value drops further like you say. I think it would increase as he becomes a more complete player.

Without a future star on the roster to build around, you're basically starting from ground zero. The only hope is what you get from the draft by way of stinking it up. History has shown it takes 5-10 years to recover from that scenario. I'd rather be first round playoff fodder in that case.

[PhilBlackson]

The interesting thing so far to me is that it does kind of appear that we're trying to plug the hole of losing Patterson.

Of the more well known prospects so far we've looked at Semi, Leaf and now Caleb. I don't want to hear about Siakam, he is another Amir with more speed and better gas tank, he hasn't proven that he can shoot the NBA 3 with any consistency at all. It really looks like we're after a SF...mainly PF at this point that can nail a 3.

It's just a guess but I get the feeling we want to go small ball, move Ibaka to C like CLE did with Tristan and that we're going to see if we can move Val for some type of SF that can likely do the same ie/ Batum (JV + Carroll + some other minor asset), Ariza or someone like that. Personally not a fan of it because again I want a high upside pick, the hell with positions etc because the draft should be about the future but lately we've attempted to use the draft as a means of plugging holes in our lineup so we'll see.

[CoachJReturns]

I think Swanigan has a better feel for the game than Sullinger.

I have to disagree. Review some of Sully's games in Ohio and his slimmer games in Boston. He has a high BBIQ. Smart rebounder with good position using his Lowry booty to carve out space.

Anyways we're not picking Caleb so it's a mute point for me. Siakam is getting better at rebounding. Jacob is a very good positional rebounder. JV and Ibaka are solid. All 4 are better defenders. Jacob and Ibaka have some range. Completely ignoring Bebe too. I like him to take a look at him in workouts because trades can change the team and make his skill needed but I can't see why we would draft him to our team when other prospects are as good and can fill a greater need. Face it, Caleb is getting no minutes next year as part of the Raptors.

The thing I value most about Swanigan's game, and the thing that sets him apart from the rest of our bigs, is his ability to pass out of the post and from the hi-post. So, when you look at our current setup, let's say our best lineup to go up against Cleveland's lineup is as follows:

Lowry - Irving
DeRozan - Smith
Tucker - James
Ibaka - Love
Poeltl - Thompson

I don't know, I feel like we're at a disadvantage in the interior. Our rebounding is subpar. Kevin Love had his way with Ibaka in the series, and even beating him off the dribble. It remains to be seen how effective Poeltl can be in going up against Thompson. I think he has a jumpshot that he didn't show last season, so I think that could work against Thompson, in terms of keeping him off the boards. I'm less concerned about Poeltl than I am about Ibaka, though. I feel like a guy like Swanigan can compete against a Love or Thompson on the glass, and he can play with any of our bigs, aside from maybe Valanciunas. Furthermore, I actually think the fact he showed he can handle a higher usage is key for this particular team, as our offence is too guard-centric imo. Swanigan has the ability to carry some of the offensive burden because dude can pass out of the post in addition to scoring from the post. This is different than either Ibaka or Val, who don't give the ball back once they receive it for the most part.

I just like the fit with Swanigan here. But, maybe the Raps go in a different direction with the pick if it remains at 23.

I think Masai might have been hoping that Sullinger could complete that lineup with Patterson when he signed him. Maybe, he tries again with Swanigan.

Caleb's offense isn't a problem, but his defense will make him unplayable quite often. He is beyond slow for an NBA player. I wouldn't be mad if we took him and it's good that Masai at least brought him in for a workout, but I just can't see a scenario where he fits well with this team, or most teams for that matter.

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

I have to disagree. Review some of Sully's games in Ohio and his slimmer games in Boston. He has a high BBIQ. Smart rebounder with good position using his Lowry booty to carve out space.

Anyways we're not picking Caleb so it's a mute point for me. Siakam is getting better at rebounding. Jacob is a very good positional rebounder. JV and Ibaka are solid. All 4 are better defenders. Jacob and Ibaka have some range. Completely ignoring Bebe too. I like him to take a look at him in workouts because trades can change the team and make his skill needed but I can't see why we would draft him to our team when other prospects are as good and can fill a greater need. Face it, Caleb is getting no minutes next year as part of the Raptors.

The thing I value most about Swanigan's game, and the thing that sets him apart from the rest of our bigs, is his ability to pass out of the post and from the hi-post. So, when you look at our current setup, let's say our best lineup to go up against Cleveland's lineup is as follows:

Lowry - Irving
DeRozan - Smith
Tucker - James
Ibaka - Love
Poeltl - Thompson

I don't know, I feel like we're at a disadvantage in the interior. Our rebounding is subpar. Kevin Love had his way with Ibaka in the series, and even beating him off the dribble. It remains to be seen how effective Poeltl can be in going up against Thompson. I think he has a jumpshot that he didn't show last season, so I think that could work against Thompson, in terms of keeping him off the boards. I'm less concerned about Poeltl than I am about Ibaka, though. I feel like a guy like Swanigan can compete against a Love or Thompson on the glass, and he can play with any of our bigs, aside from maybe Valanciunas. Furthermore, I actually think the fact he showed he can handle a higher usage is key for this particular team, as our offence is too guard-centric imo. Swanigan has the ability to carry some of the offensive burden because dude can pass out of the post in addition to scoring from the post. This is different than either Ibaka or Val, who don't give the ball back once they receive it for the most part.

I just like the fit with Swanigan here. But, maybe the Raps go in a different direction with the pick if it remains at 23.

I think Masai might have been hoping that Sullinger could complete that lineup with Patterson when he signed him. Maybe, he tries again with Swanigan.

Caleb's offense isn't a problem, but his defense will make him unplayable quite often. He is beyond slow for an NBA player. I wouldn't be mad if we took him and it's good that Masai at least brought him in for a workout, but I just can't see a scenario where he fits well with this team, or most teams for that matter.

We'll see about the defence. I think it can improve with better conditioning. And, rebounding is a big part of defence, bruh, which we all know he can do. Dude had a higher DRB% than Sullinger compared to his 2 years at Ohio St., and was on par with Draymond Green.

[BoyzNTheHood]

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[BoyzNTheHood]

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[Mr.Raptorsingh]

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This dude is mocked way too low on draft boards imo.

[BoyzNTheHood]

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This dude is mocked way too low on draft boards imo.

Well the copy cat league that the NBA is forgets that good big men is a tried and true method to win titles. Not everyone shoots the ball like Steph Curry and Klay Thompson (understatement of the year?). Oh, and I forgot, as of May 30th 2017 they still only have one title!!

One thing that has never changed is the fact that when you have the ball more than your opponent gives you a better chance to score more points because you have more opportunities to do so, and the team with more points wins! So how do you get the ball more? REBOUND! Who rebounds? BIG MEN!!

[RaptorsLife]

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[CoachJReturns]

The thing I value most about Swanigan's game, and the thing that sets him apart from the rest of our bigs, is his ability to pass out of the post and from the hi-post. So, when you look at our current setup, let's say our best lineup to go up against Cleveland's lineup is as follows:

Lowry - Irving
DeRozan - Smith
Tucker - James
Ibaka - Love
Poeltl - Thompson

I don't know, I feel like we're at a disadvantage in the interior. Our rebounding is subpar. Kevin Love had his way with Ibaka in the series, and even beating him off the dribble. It remains to be seen how effective Poeltl can be in going up against Thompson. I think he has a jumpshot that he didn't show last season, so I think that could work against Thompson, in terms of keeping him off the boards. I'm less concerned about Poeltl than I am about Ibaka, though. I feel like a guy like Swanigan can compete against a Love or Thompson on the glass, and he can play with any of our bigs, aside from maybe Valanciunas. Furthermore, I actually think the fact he showed he can handle a higher usage is key for this particular team, as our offence is too guard-centric imo. Swanigan has the ability to carry some of the offensive burden because dude can pass out of the post in addition to scoring from the post. This is different than either Ibaka or Val, who don't give the ball back once they receive it for the most part.

I just like the fit with Swanigan here. But, maybe the Raps go in a different direction with the pick if it remains at 23.

I think Masai might have been hoping that Sullinger could complete that lineup with Patterson when he signed him. Maybe, he tries again with Swanigan.

Caleb's offense isn't a problem, but his defense will make him unplayable quite often. He is beyond slow for an NBA player. I wouldn't be mad if we took him and it's good that Masai at least brought him in for a workout, but I just can't see a scenario where he fits well with this team, or most teams for that matter.

We'll see about the defence. I think it can improve with better conditioning. And, rebounding is a big part of defence, bruh, which we all know he can do. Dude had a higher DRB% than Sullinger compared to his 2 years at Ohio St., and was on par with Draymond Green.

Lol. Yeah I'm sure he's going to go from being one of the slowest bigs in a long time, to a quick perimeter defender. Just like JV will become quick enough to defend the pick and roll right?
I'm done.

[Mikistan]

The thing I value most about Swanigan's game, and the thing that sets him apart from the rest of our bigs, is his ability to pass out of the post and from the hi-post. So, when you look at our current setup, let's say our best lineup to go up against Cleveland's lineup is as follows:

Lowry - Irving
DeRozan - Smith
Tucker - James
Ibaka - Love
Poeltl - Thompson

I don't know, I feel like we're at a disadvantage in the interior. Our rebounding is subpar. Kevin Love had his way with Ibaka in the series, and even beating him off the dribble. It remains to be seen how effective Poeltl can be in going up against Thompson. I think he has a jumpshot that he didn't show last season, so I think that could work against Thompson, in terms of keeping him off the boards. I'm less concerned about Poeltl than I am about Ibaka, though. I feel like a guy like Swanigan can compete against a Love or Thompson on the glass, and he can play with any of our bigs, aside from maybe Valanciunas. Furthermore, I actually think the fact he showed he can handle a higher usage is key for this particular team, as our offence is too guard-centric imo. Swanigan has the ability to carry some of the offensive burden because dude can pass out of the post in addition to scoring from the post. This is different than either Ibaka or Val, who don't give the ball back once they receive it for the most part.

I just like the fit with Swanigan here. But, maybe the Raps go in a different direction with the pick if it remains at 23.

I think Masai might have been hoping that Sullinger could complete that lineup with Patterson when he signed him. Maybe, he tries again with Swanigan.

Caleb's offense isn't a problem, but his defense will make him unplayable quite often. He is beyond slow for an NBA player. I wouldn't be mad if we took him and it's good that Masai at least brought him in for a workout, but I just can't see a scenario where he fits well with this team, or most teams for that matter.

We'll see about the defence. I think it can improve with better conditioning. And, rebounding is a big part of defence, bruh, which we all know he can do. Dude had a higher DRB% than Sullinger compared to his 2 years at Ohio St., and was on par with Draymond Green.

Yes, his defense can be serviceable, and rebounding is important, but there is nothing to rebound if the opponents are scoring on us!

Caleb only had 0.8 blocks per game and 0.4 steals per game - pretty damn underwhelming in the college game especially - his game logs show song mutiple effort nights, and it seems like the first 10+ game of the season he was putting up donuts defensive stats which changed by mid-season (a factor of him becoming the defensive anchor i've read? i dunno if true)
He had higher hustle stats in the tournament games so seems like he steps up his game.

If we had 2 picks still I would have liked to play Bolden and Swanigan together

[Mikistan]

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SEE YA CARROLL!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

Caleb's offense isn't a problem, but his defense will make him unplayable quite often. He is beyond slow for an NBA player. I wouldn't be mad if we took him and it's good that Masai at least brought him in for a workout, but I just can't see a scenario where he fits well with this team, or most teams for that matter.

We'll see about the defence. I think it can improve with better conditioning. And, rebounding is a big part of defence, bruh, which we all know he can do. Dude had a higher DRB% than Sullinger compared to his 2 years at Ohio St., and was on par with Draymond Green.

Lol. Yeah I'm sure he's going to go from being one of the slowest bigs in a long time, to a quick perimeter defender. Just like JV will become quick enough to defend the pick and roll right?
I'm done.

Dude, he's got other things going for him on the defensive end. Man, there are players who are great defenders that aren't the quickest of foot. It isn't all about that, bro. He can rebound, he's got some length to him, with a 7'3'' wingspan. He's got a 9'0 standing reach. Now, I don't know if he'll ever be a great defender, but I'm willing to give him a chance. Not only that, he seems coachable, too.

[Patman]

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Z-Bo is a lofty comparison for Caleb, but that's the type of player we can use right now. We need someone who grabs boards, sets solid screens, hits open jumpers, posts up smaller guys on a switch, can pass from the high post (i.e. trap-breaker).

[HeadtopChunes]

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SEE YA CARROLL!!!!!!!!!!!

I'd love to trade them JV+23 for 12+Harris. But I don't think they need JV

[Johnny Bball]

I really would like to see Caleb be the guy we grab at 23. Really like what I read about his character and work ethic. And he's not a slow as JV lol.

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[Lord_Zedd]

Between Caleb Swanigan, Semi Ojeleye, TJ Leaf, Tyler Lydon

I choose..... Jonah Bolden

6'10, 7'4 wingspan who can shoot and handle the ball should peg this guy in the 1st round. Draftexpress must still be thinking about the post up player from UCLA rather than the point forward player in the ABA league

I really think this guy is going higher than 47 and wouldn't be surprised to see him around the 17-29 range - mainly because the Bucks have been gambling well, and we're going to be pissed that the Spurs ended up with another steal