The Official Cunningham vs Suggs Thread #Tank4Either

[Psubs]

AJ Griffin looks like Kawhi!!! Not sure about the defense though.

Watch on YouTube

Probably not in range to draft him in 2022.

He’s the son of Raptors assistant Adrian Griffin btw. Would be cool to find a way to get him

Mock draft has him in the lottery.
There are many SF prospects next year, but usually Guards impact the game earlier, and have ranked higher, so I am not surprised some guards will raise and push down some of the SF prospects to our range (assume we will be ~20).

He looks like he could be a star. At minimum Harrison Barnes with more guard skills.

[Mark_83]

If we picked at 6 and had the option of Barnes, Johnson, Moody, or Bouknight who do you want?

Johnson - Most talented player of this group imo, but there are supposedly makeup issues, and Masai values high character players (ironic depending on your view of Siakam's outbursts). Could play him in a Ben Simmons like role as PG with Fred as SG. Johnson could then guard the wing on defense while letting OG cover the shooting guard.

Barnes - Best defender in the group. Most unique skill set as a point forward who can guard all 5 positions. Looks like Giannis when he gets downhill due to his size, strength, length and athleticism, though not that level of player. Could play point center for us like Draymond but might conflict with Pascal's secondary ball handling responsibilities. On paper though, a front court of Pascal, OG, and Barnes could switch on every play with easy. Adds toughness and is a hard worker.

Moody - Best shooter of the group. Elite size and length for a 2 guard. Very smart defender who uses his tools well. Easiest to fit in at the vacant 2 spot if Lowry leaves, pushing Trent to 6th man eventually. Probably highest floor and lowest upside of this group.

Bouknight - Best pure scorer of the group. Reminiscent of Jamal Murray, worse shooter but more explosive athlete. Needs better shot discipline. Not sure how he'd fit with Fred and the rest of the starters though we have a spot up for grabs at SG.

[Indeed]

If we picked at 6 and had the option of Barnes, Johnson, Moody, or Bouknight who do you want?

Johnson - Most talented player of this group imo, but there are supposedly makeup issues, and Masai values high character players (ironic depending on your view of Siakam's outbursts). Could play him in a Ben Simmons like role as PG with Fred as SG. Johnson could then guard the wing on defense while letting OG cover the shooting guard.

Barnes - Best defender in the group. Most unique skill set as a point forward who can guard all 5 positions. Looks like Giannis when he gets downhill due to his size, strength, length and athleticism, though not that level of player. Could play point center for us like Draymond but might conflict with Pascal's secondary ball handling responsibilities. On paper though, a front court of Pascal, OG, and Barnes could switch on every play with easy. Adds toughness and is a hard worker.

Moody - Best shooter of the group. Elite size and length for a 2 guard. Very smart defender who uses his tools well. Easiest to fit in at the vacant 2 spot if Lowry leaves, pushing Trent to 6th man eventually. Probably highest floor and lowest upside of this group.

Bouknight - Best pure scorer of the group. Reminiscent of Jamal Murray, worse shooter but more explosive athlete. Needs better shot discipline. Not sure how he'd fit with Fred and the rest of the starters though we have a spot up for grabs at SG.

I think Barnes fits our style. He seems to be Simmons lite. We need a good passer with vision and a dirty worker who can replace some of the things we need from Lowry. Making a touch down pass to Siakam or initiating transition after rebounding. Very good defender and switchable.

His problem is shooting, lack of soft touch, and below the rim athlete. Worst case is MCW?

[WuTang_CMB]

We need to replenish our guard play especially with lowry about to walk in a few months or even a year.

Cade and Suggs should be the target

[Mark_83]

If we picked at 6 and had the option of Barnes, Johnson, Moody, or Bouknight who do you want?

Johnson - Most talented player of this group imo, but there are supposedly makeup issues, and Masai values high character players (ironic depending on your view of Siakam's outbursts). Could play him in a Ben Simmons like role as PG with Fred as SG. Johnson could then guard the wing on defense while letting OG cover the shooting guard.

Barnes - Best defender in the group. Most unique skill set as a point forward who can guard all 5 positions. Looks like Giannis when he gets downhill due to his size, strength, length and athleticism, though not that level of player. Could play point center for us like Draymond but might conflict with Pascal's secondary ball handling responsibilities. On paper though, a front court of Pascal, OG, and Barnes could switch on every play with easy. Adds toughness and is a hard worker.

Moody - Best shooter of the group. Elite size and length for a 2 guard. Very smart defender who uses his tools well. Easiest to fit in at the vacant 2 spot if Lowry leaves, pushing Trent to 6th man eventually. Probably highest floor and lowest upside of this group.

Bouknight - Best pure scorer of the group. Reminiscent of Jamal Murray, worse shooter but more explosive athlete. Needs better shot discipline. Not sure how he'd fit with Fred and the rest of the starters though we have a spot up for grabs at SG.

I think Barnes fits our style. He seems to be Simmons lite. We need a good passer with vision and a dirty worker who can replace some of the things we need from Lowry. Making a touch down pass to Siakam or initiating transition after rebounding. Very good defender and switchable.

His problem is shooting, lack of soft touch, and below the rim athlete. Worst case is MCW?

My worst case for him is James Johnson. Similar size, length, strength, and athleticism. Brings toughness and defense with questionable shooting. Both can handle the ball but Barnes takes care of it better.

[pr0gr4m]

I'm really hoping Kuminga, Mobley, Johnson, and a few make late increases in draft stock. I want Suggs pretty bad. I'm hoping we pick at least 5th and something like this happens:

MIN: Cade
Detroit: Mobley
Houston: Green
Orlando: Kuminga
Toronto: Suggs

Suggs just makes everyone play so much better. Based on the odds and how they are structured I would want to be 4th. It gives you the best chance at not dropping if you look at the averages. A coin flips chance at the top 4 and a quarter of the chance at being 6th

Suggs would make Siakam and Boucher look way better. If we get a decent forward that can roll hard to the rim like Reed we would be making big moves.

Reed
Siakam
OG
Suggs
Fred

That is playoffs again, and a great experience for the young guys. We could build off that into the future and continue to grow as a unit or make a big trade as Fred/Siakam reach their 30s.

[NotMyKawhi]

Mobley, Green, Kuminga, Suggs, Johnson, Barnes. Cade

only 7 I want, stay in the bottom 7

[pr0gr4m]

Mobley, Green, Kuminga, Suggs, Johnson, Barnes. Cade

only 7 I want, stay in the bottom 7

We aren't too far off from the Magic in the lotto battle. If we finish 4th worst instead of (I think 7th right now?). We could grab a top 7 guy easily. It's crazy because all of those guys could be instant starters on this team. Mobley would be the start C. Kuminga, Barnes are PF/SF that would be good fits next to OG/Siakam in a 3 forward SL. Suggs, Cade, Johnson, and Green could all start at the 2.

[Morse Code]

Stay away from Barnes. Dude is a liability offensively at times. He can grab a board and push the break, but if nothing comes out of it and we are stuck in a half court offence it’s literally 4 on 5. Even James Johnson had a post fade and some other ways to score. Barnes has zero scoring touch.

[Indeed]

If we picked at 6 and had the option of Barnes, Johnson, Moody, or Bouknight who do you want?

Johnson - Most talented player of this group imo, but there are supposedly makeup issues, and Masai values high character players (ironic depending on your view of Siakam's outbursts). Could play him in a Ben Simmons like role as PG with Fred as SG. Johnson could then guard the wing on defense while letting OG cover the shooting guard.

Barnes - Best defender in the group. Most unique skill set as a point forward who can guard all 5 positions. Looks like Giannis when he gets downhill due to his size, strength, length and athleticism, though not that level of player. Could play point center for us like Draymond but might conflict with Pascal's secondary ball handling responsibilities. On paper though, a front court of Pascal, OG, and Barnes could switch on every play with easy. Adds toughness and is a hard worker.

Moody - Best shooter of the group. Elite size and length for a 2 guard. Very smart defender who uses his tools well. Easiest to fit in at the vacant 2 spot if Lowry leaves, pushing Trent to 6th man eventually. Probably highest floor and lowest upside of this group.

Bouknight - Best pure scorer of the group. Reminiscent of Jamal Murray, worse shooter but more explosive athlete. Needs better shot discipline. Not sure how he'd fit with Fred and the rest of the starters though we have a spot up for grabs at SG.

I think Barnes fits our style. He seems to be Simmons lite. We need a good passer with vision and a dirty worker who can replace some of the things we need from Lowry. Making a touch down pass to Siakam or initiating transition after rebounding. Very good defender and switchable.

His problem is shooting, lack of soft touch, and below the rim athlete. Worst case is MCW?

My worst case for him is James Johnson. Similar size, length, strength, and athleticism. Brings toughness and defense with questionable shooting. Both can handle the ball but Barnes takes care of it better.

May not be as athletic as James Johnson, which is why I feel more like MCW, who is worse than James Johnson. I think his decision making (questionable shooting / passing) is better than Jalen Johnson?

[Indeed]

Stay away from Barnes. Dude is a liability offensively at times. He can grab a board and push the break, but if nothing comes out of it and we are stuck in a half court offence it’s literally 4 on 5. Even James Johnson had a post fade and some other ways to score. Barnes has zero scoring touch.

Raptors has a track of improving shooting (not everyone has it afterward), so I guess they may look at him closely during workout.
But yes, it is a big concern, particularly his soft touch even around the rim. If we are not happy with Siakam missing those gimmes, it won't be any better with Barnes.

Meanwhile, his free throw has been improving in the last month or so. I wonder his motor as well.

I prefer Isaiah Jackson or Kia Jones, so I wouldn't mind dropping to 12th. I think if either of them measured at 7'4 or above wingspan, they can be a very good fit for us in a year or two G-League. Immediate help would be Mitchell, who I feel he is the next Lowry.

[Psubs]

I'm really hoping Kuminga, Mobley, Johnson, and a few make late increases in draft stock. I want Suggs pretty bad. I'm hoping we pick at least 5th and something like this happens:

MIN: Cade
Detroit: Mobley
Houston: Green
Orlando: Kuminga
Toronto: Suggs

Suggs just makes everyone play so much better. Based on the odds and how they are structured I would want to be 4th. It gives you the best chance at not dropping if you look at the averages. A coin flips chance at the top 4 and a quarter of the chance at being 6th

Suggs would make Siakam and Boucher look way better. If we get a decent forward that can roll hard to the rim like Reed we would be making big moves.

Reed
Siakam
OG
Suggs
Fred

That is playoffs again, and a great experience for the young guys. We could build off that into the future and continue to grow as a unit or make a big trade as Fred/Siakam reach their 30s.

I'm pretty sure that Gonzaga would do fine without Suggs.

PG Nembhard
SG Ayayi
SF Kispert
PF Watson
C Timme

33% from college 3. A/T of only 1.5. He could be a borderline allstar.

[Psubs]

Mobley, Green, Kuminga, Suggs, Johnson, Barnes. Cade

only 7 I want, stay in the bottom 7

We aren't too far off from the Magic in the lotto battle. If we finish 4th worst instead of (I think 7th right now?). We could grab a top 7 guy easily. It's crazy because all of those guys could be instant starters on this team. Mobley would be the start C. Kuminga, Barnes are PF/SF that would be good fits next to OG/Siakam in a 3 forward SL. Suggs, Cade, Johnson, and Green could all start at the 2.

I feel like Barnes' ceiling is current Draymond with less rebounding. Not someone you want to use a top 10 pick on.

I don't see how he's a better prospect than Paul Reed and his janky shot, though Reed proved in the G-League that he is able to increase his range and shoot better. Barnes should be pick in the 20's at best. Possibly just before Greg Brown. I'd still stay away from both now.

[pr0gr4m]

I'm really hoping Kuminga, Mobley, Johnson, and a few make late increases in draft stock. I want Suggs pretty bad. I'm hoping we pick at least 5th and something like this happens:

MIN: Cade
Detroit: Mobley
Houston: Green
Orlando: Kuminga
Toronto: Suggs

Suggs just makes everyone play so much better. Based on the odds and how they are structured I would want to be 4th. It gives you the best chance at not dropping if you look at the averages. A coin flips chance at the top 4 and a quarter of the chance at being 6th

Suggs would make Siakam and Boucher look way better. If we get a decent forward that can roll hard to the rim like Reed we would be making big moves.

Reed
Siakam
OG
Suggs
Fred

That is playoffs again, and a great experience for the young guys. We could build off that into the future and continue to grow as a unit or make a big trade as Fred/Siakam reach their 30s.

I'm pretty sure that Gonzaga would do fine without Suggs.

PG Nembhard
SG Ayayi
SF Kispert
PF Watson
C Timme

33% from college 3. A/T of only 1.5. He could be a borderline allstar.

The fact he can play with other guys who are high level and is capable of fitting in a well running team makes me gravitate to him with our pick. He can contribute to a winner which is pretty important and he was a freshmen. These are key signs that he could be a plug and play starter for us as soon as he is drafted.

We also really like our 2 point guard line ups. He lets us have 2 point guards but he has the size of a SG. He has a football background which makes him play bigger than his size. I see 0 weaknesses.

Here's something to think about:

Did Suggs help bring up these guys game or did they bring up his game? I would say it's the prior.

[Son Goku 25]

If we're looking for a Lowry replacement I don't think there's a better player than Suggs for that.

If we somehow get him I swear if Fvv has sht to say he can be traded. I'd give reigns to Suggs as the franchise player and pg. I remember Fvv had some choice words for Flynn as if he was defensive even though he's a rookie like he'd take his spot. Ironically, a guy like Suggs would compliment Fvv.

[TorontoRapsFan]

Some of you guys' posts are worrying. Why you talk so casually about a number 6 pick's worst outcome being a MCW or James Johnson? That's a disaster.

[Psubs]

If we're looking for a Lowry replacement I don't think there's a better player than Suggs for that.

If we somehow get him I swear if Fvv has sht to say he can be traded. I'd give reigns to Suggs as the franchise player and pg. I remember Fvv had some choice words for Flynn as if he was defensive even though he's a rookie like he'd take his spot. Ironically, a guy like Suggs would compliment Fvv.

I don't want a Lowry replacement, I want a Kawhi replacement.

[Psubs]

Davion Mitchell is a bad man! And I heard the announcers say his nickname is "Off Night", which is amazing.

I was thinking of a comp and Ben Gordon came to mind.

That would be a good get for an elite 6th man drafted in the late teens/20's.

[notagenius]

If we picked at 6 and had the option of Barnes, Johnson, Moody, or Bouknight who do you want?

Johnson - Most talented player of this group imo, but there are supposedly makeup issues, and Masai values high character players (ironic depending on your view of Siakam's outbursts). Could play him in a Ben Simmons like role as PG with Fred as SG. Johnson could then guard the wing on defense while letting OG cover the shooting guard.

Barnes - Best defender in the group. Most unique skill set as a point forward who can guard all 5 positions. Looks like Giannis when he gets downhill due to his size, strength, length and athleticism, though not that level of player. Could play point center for us like Draymond but might conflict with Pascal's secondary ball handling responsibilities. On paper though, a front court of Pascal, OG, and Barnes could switch on every play with easy. Adds toughness and is a hard worker.

Moody - Best shooter of the group. Elite size and length for a 2 guard. Very smart defender who uses his tools well. Easiest to fit in at the vacant 2 spot if Lowry leaves, pushing Trent to 6th man eventually. Probably highest floor and lowest upside of this group.

Bouknight - Best pure scorer of the group. Reminiscent of Jamal Murray, worse shooter but more explosive athlete. Needs better shot discipline. Not sure how he'd fit with Fred and the rest of the starters though we have a spot up for grabs at SG.

Love what i've seen from Bouknight, 3 level scorer to go along with being a good athlete.
Only downside is he's had some injuries and looks to be slight of frame.

[Mark_83]

I think Barnes fits our style. He seems to be Simmons lite. We need a good passer with vision and a dirty worker who can replace some of the things we need from Lowry. Making a touch down pass to Siakam or initiating transition after rebounding. Very good defender and switchable.

His problem is shooting, lack of soft touch, and below the rim athlete. Worst case is MCW?

My worst case for him is James Johnson. Similar size, length, strength, and athleticism. Brings toughness and defense with questionable shooting. Both can handle the ball but Barnes takes care of it better.

May not be as athletic as James Johnson, which is why I feel more like MCW, who is worse than James Johnson. I think his decision making (questionable shooting / passing) is better than Jalen Johnson?

Definitely not as good a keeper as Johnson but he's plenty athletic in his own right. He's much more athletic than MCW. Is MCW even a good defender? I haven't seen much outside highlights.