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Official Scottie Barnes Thread

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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread 

Post#1261 » by pingpongrac » Fri Dec 3, 2021 10:33 am

DreamTeam09 wrote:Why is Scotties shots total even a topic of discussion. Many of us didn't even expect 10ppg this szn and he's already had multiple 20pt games.

He's still a rookie,
Because he has shown the ability to score somewhat efficiently when he finishes with 8-12 FGA, some people think that means his efficiency and effectiveness will carry over if he's attempting 16-20 FGA instead. Similarly, because he has excellent vision and is a good passer while having a solid handle, some think that we (or Scottie) would be better off with him as the primary ball handler without realizing how prone to mistakes (on both ends) due to fatigue Scottie is. Being the primary ball handler and attempting 15 shots a night would burn Scottie out in no time and/or cause a significant drop-off in his defence -- which has really been improving the last few games.

Scottie is blowing away even the most optimistic predictions. 15/8/3 while averaging almost a block and steal per game and suddenly draining threes at an extremely high rate over the last 6 games. Every few games, Scottie shows us something different too.

First 4 games: a menace on the offensive glass (3.5 OREB), elite inside scoring (23/36 or 64% in the paint) and flashed a bit of a midrange game (4/8)

Next 3 games (before injury): dominated the defensive glass (7.0 REB), cut down on the turnovers (from almost 4 per game down to 4 total in 105 minutes) and increased his playmaking a bit (from 1.3 APG to 3.0 APG) while significantly increasing his mid range attempts (5/13)

Next 4 games (after injury): struggled to find his offence at times and seemingly turned down a lot of open looks (39 of 50 attempts came inside the paint in which he converted just 49%), but he played some very solid all around games (14/8/4) and had some incredible defensive highlights

Next 5 games: struggled mightily with his inside scoring (11/33 in the paint) and had more defensive lapses in this stretch than the entire season up to this point, but he continued to flash his playmaking ability (4.6 APG)

Last 5 games: suddenly blossoming into a three-point shooter (11/24 in 5 games after going 4/16 in the first 16 games) while continuing to rebound (7.4 REB), find teammates (3.4 APG) and work on the defensive end

How he is being utilized right now is pretty darn close to perfect. Just look at the development already. He is getting significant burn (probably a few minutes too much for a rookie at nearly 36 MPG), he is playing off-ball, he initiates the offence sometimes and he is defending every position. There is no need to run the offence through him every single possession and it is extremely important for him to continue to get these three-point reps in.

People need to remember that, whether they like it or not, Scottie is playing on a decent team with 3 borderline all-star players and a lot of additional youth that needs to also be developed. In the last ~15 years, the only players to come into the league and pretty much be handed the keys to a franchise were Durant, Wall, Kyrie and Lillard -- and all of which dominated college then mostly joined terrible teams. Durant played for the 20-win Sonics and his best teammate was probably Earl Watson, Wall played for the 23-win Wizards and his best teammate was either Blatche or Crawford (for the last 20ish games lol) and Kyrie played for the 19-win Cavs and his best teammate was a 35-year-old Jamison. Lillard was the only player of the 4 to play with some actual NBA talent (all-star Aldridge plus young Matthews and Batum). Expecting Scottie to be getting 15 FGA so he can score 20 PPG is extremely unrealistic lol.

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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread 

Post#1262 » by seanbig » Fri Dec 3, 2021 10:37 am

Scottie’s man on man defense on the perimeter is a concern- not sure if it’s the Hugh minutes but every crunch time is full of Scottie getting burned by a guard for a direct drive or drive and kick
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread 

Post#1263 » by TNRaps4life » Fri Dec 3, 2021 10:44 am

Your post is reasonable for the most part, but Nick Nurse said it himself that Scottie should be taking around 18 shots per game. Maybe that was pre Pascal, but it is obvious Pascal pounds the ball too much. I am all for free flowing basketball. Scottie plays the right way. We are not winning this year so better off developing the young man.



pingpongrac wrote:
DreamTeam09 wrote:Why is Scotties shots total even a topic of discussion. Many of us didn't even expect 10ppg this szn and he's already had multiple 20pt games.

He's still a rookie,
Because he has shown the ability to score somewhat efficiently when he finishes with 8-12 FGA, some people think that means his efficiency and effectiveness will carry over if he's attempting 16-20 FGA instead. Similarly, because he has excellent vision and is a good passer while having a solid handle, some think that we (or Scottie) would be better off with him as the primary ball handler without realizing how prone to mistakes (on both ends) due to fatigue Scottie is. Being the primary ball handler and attempting 15 shots a night would burn Scottie out in no time and/or cause a significant drop-off in his defence -- which has really been improving the last few games.

Scottie is blowing away even the most optimistic predictions. 15/8/3 while averaging almost a block and steal per game and suddenly draining threes at an extremely high rate over the last 6 games. Every few games, Scottie shows us something different too.

First 4 games: a menace on the offensive glass (3.5 OREB), elite inside scoring (23/36 or 64% in the paint) and flashed a bit of a midrange game (4/8)

Next 3 games (before injury): dominated the defensive glass (7.0 REB), cut down on the turnovers (from almost 4 per game down to 4 total in 105 minutes) and increased his playmaking a bit (from 1.3 APG to 3.0 APG) while significantly increasing his mid range attempts (5/13)

Next 4 games (after injury): struggled to find his offence at times and seemingly turned down a lot of open looks (39 of 50 attempts came inside the paint in which he converted just 49%), but he played some very solid all around games (14/8/4) and had some incredible defensive highlights

Next 5 games: struggled mightily with his inside scoring (11/33 in the paint) and had more defensive lapses in this stretch than the entire season up to this point, but he continued to flash his playmaking ability (4.6 APG)

Last 5 games: suddenly blossoming into a three-point shooter (11/24 in 5 games after going 4/16 in the first 16 games) while continuing to rebound (7.4 REB), find teammates (3.4 APG) and work on the defensive end

How he is being utilized right now is pretty darn close to perfect. Just look at the development already. He is getting significant burn (probably a few minutes too much for a rookie at nearly 36 MPG), he is playing off-ball, he initiates the offence sometimes and he is defending every position. There is no need to run the offence through him every single possession and it is extremely important for him to continue to get these three-point reps in.

People need to remember that, whether they like it or not, Scottie is playing on a decent team with 3 borderline all-star players and a lot of additional youth that needs to also be developed. In the last ~15 years, the only players to come into the league and pretty much be handed the keys to a franchise were Durant, Wall, Kyrie and Lillard -- and all of which dominated college then mostly joined terrible teams. Durant played for the 20-win Sonics and his best teammate was probably Earl Watson, Wall played for the 23-win Wizards and his best teammate was either Blatche or Crawford (for the last 20ish games lol) and Kyrie played for the 19-win Cavs and his best teammate was a 35-year-old Jamison. Lillard was the only player of the 4 to play with some actual NBA talent (all-star Aldridge plus young Matthews and Batum). Expecting Scottie to be getting 15 FGA so he can score 20 PPG is extremely unrealistic lol.

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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread 

Post#1264 » by TNRaps4life » Fri Dec 3, 2021 10:46 am

seanbig wrote:Scottie’s man on man defense on the perimeter is a concern- not sure if it’s the Hugh minutes but every crunch time is full of Scottie getting burned by a guard for a direct drive or drive and kick


Good problem to see now. Look at when he really focused on Middleton and Holiday. That boy got it all when he puts it together.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread 

Post#1265 » by Arman_tanzarian » Fri Dec 3, 2021 11:08 am

seanbig wrote:Scottie’s man on man defense on the perimeter is a concern- not sure if it’s the Hugh minutes but every crunch time is full of Scottie getting burned by a guard for a direct drive or drive and kick


His defense on Middleton and Jrue was superb all day..

Like any rookie, you'll see the vets bait him into things here and there. That's the nature of being a rookie. He's a little help happy imo at the moment... But the intensity TN is what I was expecting from him.. he will put it all together eventually...be a menace on defense similar to a Kawhi. Maybe not as good on the perimeter 1 on 1 but has the potential to be better on team defense..I see him more of a dray type of defender actually than a Kawhi. Obv that would be like max ceiling on that end though.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread 

Post#1266 » by pingpongrac » Fri Dec 3, 2021 11:23 am

TNRaps4life wrote:Your post is reasonable for the most part, but Nick Nurse said it himself that Scottie should be taking around 18 shots per game. Maybe that was pre Pascal, but it is obvious Pascal pounds the ball too much. I am all for free flowing basketball. Scottie plays the right way. We are not winning this year so better off developing the young man.



pingpongrac wrote:
DreamTeam09 wrote:Why is Scotties shots total even a topic of discussion. Many of us didn't even expect 10ppg this szn and he's already had multiple 20pt games.

He's still a rookie,
Because he has shown the ability to score somewhat efficiently when he finishes with 8-12 FGA, some people think that means his efficiency and effectiveness will carry over if he's attempting 16-20 FGA instead. Similarly, because he has excellent vision and is a good passer while having a solid handle, some think that we (or Scottie) would be better off with him as the primary ball handler without realizing how prone to mistakes (on both ends) due to fatigue Scottie is. Being the primary ball handler and attempting 15 shots a night would burn Scottie out in no time and/or cause a significant drop-off in his defence -- which has really been improving the last few games.

Scottie is blowing away even the most optimistic predictions. 15/8/3 while averaging almost a block and steal per game and suddenly draining threes at an extremely high rate over the last 6 games. Every few games, Scottie shows us something different too.

First 4 games: a menace on the offensive glass (3.5 OREB), elite inside scoring (23/36 or 64% in the paint) and flashed a bit of a midrange game (4/8)

Next 3 games (before injury): dominated the defensive glass (7.0 REB), cut down on the turnovers (from almost 4 per game down to 4 total in 105 minutes) and increased his playmaking a bit (from 1.3 APG to 3.0 APG) while significantly increasing his mid range attempts (5/13)

Next 4 games (after injury): struggled to find his offence at times and seemingly turned down a lot of open looks (39 of 50 attempts came inside the paint in which he converted just 49%), but he played some very solid all around games (14/8/4) and had some incredible defensive highlights

Next 5 games: struggled mightily with his inside scoring (11/33 in the paint) and had more defensive lapses in this stretch than the entire season up to this point, but he continued to flash his playmaking ability (4.6 APG)

Last 5 games: suddenly blossoming into a three-point shooter (11/24 in 5 games after going 4/16 in the first 16 games) while continuing to rebound (7.4 REB), find teammates (3.4 APG) and work on the defensive end

How he is being utilized right now is pretty darn close to perfect. Just look at the development already. He is getting significant burn (probably a few minutes too much for a rookie at nearly 36 MPG), he is playing off-ball, he initiates the offence sometimes and he is defending every position. There is no need to run the offence through him every single possession and it is extremely important for him to continue to get these three-point reps in.

People need to remember that, whether they like it or not, Scottie is playing on a decent team with 3 borderline all-star players and a lot of additional youth that needs to also be developed. In the last ~15 years, the only players to come into the league and pretty much be handed the keys to a franchise were Durant, Wall, Kyrie and Lillard -- and all of which dominated college then mostly joined terrible teams. Durant played for the 20-win Sonics and his best teammate was probably Earl Watson, Wall played for the 23-win Wizards and his best teammate was either Blatche or Crawford (for the last 20ish games lol) and Kyrie played for the 19-win Cavs and his best teammate was a 35-year-old Jamison. Lillard was the only player of the 4 to play with some actual NBA talent (all-star Aldridge plus young Matthews and Batum). Expecting Scottie to be getting 15 FGA so he can score 20 PPG is extremely unrealistic lol.

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That was definitely pre-Siakam. I also think that was just Nurse instilling confidence in Scottie to be aggressive and take advantage of scoring opportunities. The "18 shots per game" comment was less about the actual number and more about the mindset to score. When he has a mismatch, he should look to attack. When he is wide open (either behind the three-point line or in the midrange), he should look to shoot. So on and so forth.

There is 20 players taking 18 shots per game right now. Most of them are superstars (KD, Giannis, Steph, Luka, LeBron) and/or three-level scorers that have been in the league 5+ years. Scottie is nowhere near ready to be taking 18 shots per night. Every once in a while when he is feeling it or when the opposition has no one to guard him is perfectly fine though.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread 

Post#1267 » by tecumseh18 » Fri Dec 3, 2021 4:52 pm

Alfred showing off his (and Scottie's) skillz:

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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread 

Post#1268 » by Bruin » Fri Dec 3, 2021 6:19 pm

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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread 

Post#1269 » by Kingsway_fan » Fri Dec 3, 2021 6:25 pm

Scottie's steals and blocks per game are also going up, as is his three point percentage... all good signs ...

He is 5th amongst the starters in field goals attempted, yet first in percentage made...

Precious has the poorest field goal and 3 pt field goal make percentages of the 6 starters (including OG) .. next poorest is Trent...
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread 

Post#1270 » by OakleyDokely » Fri Dec 3, 2021 7:07 pm

Kingsway_fan wrote:Scottie's steals and blocks per game are also going up, as is his three point percentage... all good signs ...

Precious has the poorest field goal and 3 pt field goal make percentages of the 6 starters (including OG) .. next poorest is Trent...
He's very close to averaging 1+ stls and 1+ blks per game.

The only guys doing it currently are

AD
Giannis
Gobert
Covington
Capela
Towns
White
Grant
Bridges
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread 

Post#1271 » by Madhouse » Fri Dec 3, 2021 9:21 pm

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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread 

Post#1272 » by Dalek » Fri Dec 3, 2021 10:11 pm

LBJKB24MJ23 wrote:
Dalek wrote:
PrinceAli wrote:So when are they announcing Scottie as rookie of the month?


I think he is really deserving not because of this numbers only, but he is starting and playing a ton of games and minutes.

Going forward it will be tough. Assuming OG and Trent Jr. come back he is going to have less shots than before.

Franz Wagner on the other hand will have a lot more opportunity. Suggs is out, and Fultz hasn't returned and Cole Anthony is hurt with ankle issues. Wagner is running point for them and he could put up big numbers. He hits threes on a much higher volume, so Scottie may have challenges for ROY.

Not to mention Mobley and Cade who can catch fire as shooters and Mobley can be a difference maker on defense.

Honesty, I love this class. Guys like Giddey, Sengun, Duarte are all playing well. We haven't even really seen Moody and Kuminga who I think will be great players in time.


Franz has all the opportunities in the world in Orlando. unrestricted access to the ball and ball handling duties.

Raptors have started using Barnes to bring up the ball now if you haven't noticed. FVV is a little more off ball, compared to the start of the season. explains why his assists have fallen off (he's not missing people as much as Raptors have Siakam and Barnes and even Banton doing some of the initial playmaking/bringing up the ball - when FVV is on the floor)


Especially last game I noticed some really nice screen usage to get Freddie shots as he is off-ball more now.

It does seem like there is effort to get Scottie the ball more, but my point is we have Pascal and OG who demand the ball more this year, and Gary Trent Jr is another creator. To think that Scottie will even up his assist numbers is tough to believe because he is more likely to get hockey assists. With his scoring, I still see Pascal and OG soaking up shots, FVV and Trent Jr. are two other mouths to feed.

The best move would be to bench Scottie and Trent Jr. when everyone is back. Trent is the guys who can take focus off Scottie so he can play his game fully without seeing too many double teams.

Maybe Svi or Yuta can start at 2 guard plus Birch at C.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread 

Post#1273 » by Saul Goodman » Sat Dec 4, 2021 12:17 am

couldnt be happier with this guy. Had no idea he could shoot as well as he does and can do everything on the court. He has no ceiling on his potential
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread 

Post#1274 » by Reeko » Sat Dec 4, 2021 12:28 am

tecumseh18 wrote:Alfred showing off his (and Scottie's) skillz:


Alfred is doing big tings with his Youtube channel.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread 

Post#1275 » by LoveMyRaps » Sat Dec 4, 2021 1:14 am

Reeko wrote:
tecumseh18 wrote:Alfred showing off his (and Scottie's) skillz:


Alfred is doing big tings with his Youtube channel.


Hope he doesn't forget about us when he's famous.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread 

Post#1276 » by LoveMyRaps » Sat Dec 4, 2021 1:15 am

Ya love to see this...

As the Raptors discussed what adjustments they should make to their strategy, one voice broke in to make a declaration about the defensive scheme.

“Scottie (Barnes) kind of stepped up and said, ‘I’m gonna guard (Khris Middleton), I’m gonna guard him hard. So let’s start with that,’” Nurse said. “So we did and I thought he did a good job on him. Made him work.”

“He’s (voiced the desire to take on assignments) some this year. It’s good to see again,” Nurse said. “He’s done that some when we’ve gone into games. It’s really a talent of his, that’s the mindset we need him to stay in because I think there probably is a guy for him to guard at the guard or forward that is gonna be a high points producer and a high usage guy every night and that’s the way for him to go into the game. It’s something he can do to help us and himself every night.”


Scottie wants all the smoke! He's got the Mamba mentality.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread 

Post#1277 » by Kingsway_fan » Sun Dec 5, 2021 2:42 pm

OakleyDokely wrote:
Kingsway_fan wrote:Scottie's steals and blocks per game are also going up, as is his three point percentage... all good signs ...

Precious has the poorest field goal and 3 pt field goal make percentages of the 6 starters (including OG) .. next poorest is Trent...
He's very close to averaging 1+ stls and 1+ blks per game.

The only guys doing it currently are

AD
Giannis
Gobert
Covington
Capela
Towns
White
Grant
Bridges


Indeed. Fantastic stat.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread 

Post#1278 » by WuTang_OG » Sun Dec 5, 2021 3:08 pm

tecumseh18 wrote:Alfred showing off his (and Scottie's) skillz:


Hype music
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread 

Post#1279 » by WuTang_OG » Sun Dec 5, 2021 3:19 pm

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Amazing jump in 20 plus games. This speaks to his work ethic and feel for the game as well as confidence. Where will he be in 2 years from now ? …..
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread 

Post#1280 » by TeamDisgruntled » Mon Dec 6, 2021 1:26 pm

Can we all just take a minute to appreciate the handles that Scottie suddenly flashed last night? I know we’ve seen a moment here and there in previous games but he was consistently trying to take his man off the dribble in that first half. It might have just been the matchup against a limited defender in Bertans, but regardless it was nice to see.

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