2023 Draft Prospect discussion

[Rapsfan07]

Need a Cason Wallace/Nick Smith/Keyontae George/Anthony Black tournament, looking at our lottery odds and the mocks.

Though my heart is still invested in Van Vleet bringing back enough assets for us to trade up for Scoot after Detroit or Charlotte ends up #2 in the lottery. I don't see why Houston, San Antonio or Orlando would pass on him at #2.

I think 6 is a wonderful place to be. We're guaranteed to get one of those guys. Jarace Walker will also be on the board as well.

Scoot is going #2 and there is no way a team is passing on him. Simple as that.

[NotMyKawhi]

Need a Cason Wallace/Nick Smith/Keyontae George/Anthony Black tournament, looking at our lottery odds and the mocks.

Though my heart is still invested in Van Vleet bringing back enough assets for us to trade up for Scoot after Detroit or Charlotte ends up #2 in the lottery. I don't see why Houston, San Antonio or Orlando would pass on him at #2.

I think 6 is a wonderful place to be. We're guaranteed to get one of those guys. Jarace Walker will also be on the board as well.

Scoot is going #2 and there is no way a team is passing on him. Simple as that.

I know Scoot is going 2 but I wouldn't be shocked if its possible to trade up and get him. You look at the Pistons w Cade and Ivey, even the bobcats have Lamelo, you'd have to give up a lot but I think those 2 teams might be open if they land at 2

[Ell Curry]

Need a Cason Wallace/Nick Smith/Keyontae George/Anthony Black tournament, looking at our lottery odds and the mocks.

Though my heart is still invested in Van Vleet bringing back enough assets for us to trade up for Scoot after Detroit or Charlotte ends up #2 in the lottery. I don't see why Houston, San Antonio or Orlando would pass on him at #2.

I think 6 is a wonderful place to be. We're guaranteed to get one of those guys. Jarace Walker will also be on the board as well.

Scoot is going #2 and there is no way a team is passing on him. Simple as that.

Eh, someone traded up to 3 for Luka. It's possible.

#6, an unprotected first and whatever we get for Van Vleet (let's say Terrence Mann and a first)isn't a bad offer if you're Charlotte or Detroit and have Lamelo. A 6th man, 2 firsts to move down 4 picks for a team that needs a ton of talent and might not think Scoot/Lamelo will work.

[TorontoBarneys]

When we draft Scoot later this year.

[PoundTown]

Need a Cason Wallace/Nick Smith/Keyontae George/Anthony Black tournament, looking at our lottery odds and the mocks.

Though my heart is still invested in Van Vleet bringing back enough assets for us to trade up for Scoot after Detroit or Charlotte ends up #2 in the lottery. I don't see why Houston, San Antonio or Orlando would pass on him at #2.

I think 6 is a wonderful place to be. We're guaranteed to get one of those guys. Jarace Walker will also be on the board as well.

Scoot is going #2 and there is no way a team is passing on him. Simple as that.

Will have 6th best odds and will move up in lotta and land Scooty at 2.Scooty to Raps. Say it til you believe it.

[grant101]

Depending on how thr first round shakes out and who drops, I think Bilal Coulibaly is a name to watch out for. Plays on the same team as Wemby, but primarily with their Jr squad. He's got a smoothness to his game, - combined with great athleticism and length, he has the potential to develop into a very interesting player in a couple years. Draft and stash candidate

Read on Twitter

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[PhilBlackson]

Need a Cason Wallace/Nick Smith/Keyontae George/Anthony Black tournament, looking at our lottery odds and the mocks.

Though my heart is still invested in Van Vleet bringing back enough assets for us to trade up for Scoot after Detroit or Charlotte ends up #2 in the lottery. I don't see why Houston, San Antonio or Orlando would pass on him at #2.

I think 6 is a wonderful place to be. We're guaranteed to get one of those guys. Jarace Walker will also be on the board as well.

Scoot is going #2 and there is no way a team is passing on him. Simple as that.

I know Scoot is going 2 but I wouldn't be shocked if its possible to trade up and get him. You look at the Pistons w Cade and Ivey, even the bobcats have Lamelo, you'd have to give up a lot but I think those 2 teams might be open if they land at 2

I would, no team in the bottom 4 has the talent in place good enough to worry about fit & if they do, it’s exactly why bad teams stay bad so long…overrating fit vs the need for talent, thankfully we didn’t do that with Scottie.

LaMelo is 6’7, it’s a complete non-issue which guy is technically labelled the PG but especially when he’s already accustomed to playing alongside Rozier. He’ll be matched up with the taller of whichever guard as he’s actually tall for either guard position. There are multiple teams throughout NBA history who’s best players have been their guards.

While DET may have preferred whichever prospect be at a different position they too will not trade or pass on Scoot. If anything maybe they’d trade Ivey for a different pick or down the line (most likely) but Ivey’s also 6’4 which is the same height as Beal, Trent etc. Worst case they push him to the SG position & Cade to SF. The team is rebuilding so they don’t have to rush to move anyone but they’re not gonna pass on a player that’s pretty much a lock to be a multiple time all-star for the uncertainty of others.

Trading away the pick that’s Scoot is simply too risky for a GM of a bad team to get fired. They’ll play it safe (period) and figure out who needs to be moved after.

[grant101]

I think 6 is a wonderful place to be. We're guaranteed to get one of those guys. Jarace Walker will also be on the board as well.

Scoot is going #2 and there is no way a team is passing on him. Simple as that.

I know Scoot is going 2 but I wouldn't be shocked if its possible to trade up and get him. You look at the Pistons w Cade and Ivey, even the bobcats have Lamelo, you'd have to give up a lot but I think those 2 teams might be open if they land at 2

I would, no team in the bottom 4 has the talent in place good enough to worry about fit & if they do, it’s exactly why bad teams stay bad so long…overrating fit vs the need for talent, thankfully we didn’t do that with Scottie.

LaMelo is 6’7, it’s a complete non-issue which guy is technically labelled the PG but especially when he’s already accustomed to playing alongside Rozier. He’ll be matched up with the taller of whichever guard as he’s actually tall for either guard position. There are multiple teams throughout NBA history who’s best players have been their guards.

While DET may have preferred whichever prospect be at a different position they too will not trade or pass on Scoot. If anything maybe they’d trade Ivey for a different pick or down the line (most likely) but Ivey’s also 6’4 which is the same height as Beal, Trent etc. Worst case they push him to the SG position & Cade to SF. The team is rebuilding so they don’t have to rush to move anyone but they’re not gonna pass on a player that’s pretty much a lock to be a multiple time all-star for the uncertainty of others.

Trading away the pick that’s Scoot is simply too risky for a GM of a bad team to get fired. They’ll play it safe (period) and figure out who needs to be moved after.

You may be right, but I think you underestimate the ego of a lot of front offices. Markelle Fultz was talked about in similar tones to Scoot. A can't miss point God. There's a possibility other GMs look to replicate the success Ainge did with Tatum (who was considered at least a tier below Fultz at the time). I don't think they'd trade out of the draft, but I absolutely think they at least seriously consider moving back a couple spots if the compensation is appealing enough.

[NotMyKawhi]

I know Scoot is going 2 but I wouldn't be shocked if its possible to trade up and get him. You look at the Pistons w Cade and Ivey, even the bobcats have Lamelo, you'd have to give up a lot but I think those 2 teams might be open if they land at 2

I would, no team in the bottom 4 has the talent in place good enough to worry about fit & if they do, it’s exactly why bad teams stay bad so long…overrating fit vs the need for talent, thankfully we didn’t do that with Scottie.

LaMelo is 6’7, it’s a complete non-issue which guy is technically labelled the PG but especially when he’s already accustomed to playing alongside Rozier. He’ll be matched up with the taller of whichever guard as he’s actually tall for either guard position. There are multiple teams throughout NBA history who’s best players have been their guards.

While DET may have preferred whichever prospect be at a different position they too will not trade or pass on Scoot. If anything maybe they’d trade Ivey for a different pick or down the line (most likely) but Ivey’s also 6’4 which is the same height as Beal, Trent etc. Worst case they push him to the SG position & Cade to SF. The team is rebuilding so they don’t have to rush to move anyone but they’re not gonna pass on a player that’s pretty much a lock to be a multiple time all-star for the uncertainty of others.

Trading away the pick that’s Scoot is simply too risky for a GM of a bad team to get fired. They’ll play it safe (period) and figure out who needs to be moved after.

You may be right, but I think you underestimate the ego of a lot of front offices. Markelle Fultz was talked about in similar tones to Scoot. A can't miss point God. There's a possibility other GMs look to replicate the success Ainge did with Tatum (who was considered at least a tier below Fultz at the time). I don't think they'd trade out of the draft, but I absolutely think they at least seriously consider moving back a couple spots if the compensation is appealing enough.

slander!

Fultz was never half the athetle Scoot

[HumbleRen]

Watch on YouTube

[PhilBlackson]

I would, no team in the bottom 4 has the talent in place good enough to worry about fit & if they do, it’s exactly why bad teams stay bad so long…overrating fit vs the need for talent, thankfully we didn’t do that with Scottie.

LaMelo is 6’7, it’s a complete non-issue which guy is technically labelled the PG but especially when he’s already accustomed to playing alongside Rozier. He’ll be matched up with the taller of whichever guard as he’s actually tall for either guard position. There are multiple teams throughout NBA history who’s best players have been their guards.

While DET may have preferred whichever prospect be at a different position they too will not trade or pass on Scoot. If anything maybe they’d trade Ivey for a different pick or down the line (most likely) but Ivey’s also 6’4 which is the same height as Beal, Trent etc. Worst case they push him to the SG position & Cade to SF. The team is rebuilding so they don’t have to rush to move anyone but they’re not gonna pass on a player that’s pretty much a lock to be a multiple time all-star for the uncertainty of others.

Trading away the pick that’s Scoot is simply too risky for a GM of a bad team to get fired. They’ll play it safe (period) and figure out who needs to be moved after.

You may be right, but I think you underestimate the ego of a lot of front offices. Markelle Fultz was talked about in similar tones to Scoot. A can't miss point God. There's a possibility other GMs look to replicate the success Ainge did with Tatum (who was considered at least a tier below Fultz at the time). I don't think they'd trade out of the draft, but I absolutely think they at least seriously consider moving back a couple spots if the compensation is appealing enough.

slander!

Fultz was never half the athetle Scoot

That part...we'll even put aside that Scoot was a consensus top 2 player (would be 1 without Vic) while he was still essentially a high schooler playing in the G-League against grown men a year ago & dominates them this season as a college aged athlete, while Fultz had to work his stock up in college.

The biggest reason why it's different is idk, perhaps THE most bizarre twist to any 1st overall pick's career ever?!?!?

Umm Fultz COMPLETELY FORGOT HOW TO SHOOT

Unless Scoot is out there clanking FTs off the shot clock or suddenly shooting left handed, teams aren't going to be thinking "Fultz" lol when they're looking at SH. Nevermind the intangibles as a leader ie/ Fultz BOMBED his personal interview with Ainge. We're talking completely different level prospects when one guy is clearly more explosive (Scoot) and hasn't developed career killing yips/nerve damage to his shooting shoulder over the summer of which he's drafted lol.

Not to mention every other team in the top 4 can claim they already have a sufficient guard in place. About the only chance I see of another team in the range where trading out of 2nd doesn't supposedly seem as bad, would be to ORL...does any team really wanna chance the extreme likelihood of looking dumb when they just traded away a franchise PG to help the Magic lock in their Big 3 for the next decade (Scoot/Paolo/Franz) to the roll the dice on far less predictable prospects?!

None of those GMs have won their franchises' a ring like Danny did nor are their high draft picks the result of another team's blunder (BKN), their teams are awful and their job security is non-existent. The risk to them is FAR GREATER than Ainge's was.

[grant101]

I would, no team in the bottom 4 has the talent in place good enough to worry about fit & if they do, it’s exactly why bad teams stay bad so long…overrating fit vs the need for talent, thankfully we didn’t do that with Scottie.

LaMelo is 6’7, it’s a complete non-issue which guy is technically labelled the PG but especially when he’s already accustomed to playing alongside Rozier. He’ll be matched up with the taller of whichever guard as he’s actually tall for either guard position. There are multiple teams throughout NBA history who’s best players have been their guards.

While DET may have preferred whichever prospect be at a different position they too will not trade or pass on Scoot. If anything maybe they’d trade Ivey for a different pick or down the line (most likely) but Ivey’s also 6’4 which is the same height as Beal, Trent etc. Worst case they push him to the SG position & Cade to SF. The team is rebuilding so they don’t have to rush to move anyone but they’re not gonna pass on a player that’s pretty much a lock to be a multiple time all-star for the uncertainty of others.

Trading away the pick that’s Scoot is simply too risky for a GM of a bad team to get fired. They’ll play it safe (period) and figure out who needs to be moved after.

You may be right, but I think you underestimate the ego of a lot of front offices. Markelle Fultz was talked about in similar tones to Scoot. A can't miss point God. There's a possibility other GMs look to replicate the success Ainge did with Tatum (who was considered at least a tier below Fultz at the time). I don't think they'd trade out of the draft, but I absolutely think they at least seriously consider moving back a couple spots if the compensation is appealing enough.

slander!

Fultz was never half the athetle Scoot

Yeah, I didn't say he was. I meant he was a consensus, can't miss #1 for pretty much the whole year. Ironically enough, folks were much higher on his shot than they are with Scoot's at the moment

[PhilBlackson]

You may be right, but I think you underestimate the ego of a lot of front offices. Markelle Fultz was talked about in similar tones to Scoot. A can't miss point God. There's a possibility other GMs look to replicate the success Ainge did with Tatum (who was considered at least a tier below Fultz at the time). I don't think they'd trade out of the draft, but I absolutely think they at least seriously consider moving back a couple spots if the compensation is appealing enough.

slander!

Fultz was never half the athetle Scoot

Yeah, I didn't say he was. I meant he was a consensus, can't miss #1 for pretty much the whole year. Ironically enough, folks were much higher on his shot than they are with Scoot's at the moment

Not so ironically Fultz had NERVE DAMAGE happen in his shooting shoulder that completely altered/killed his jumper so yes if the guy isn't the athlete Scoot is AND basically turned into Thybulle level shooter over the summer of which he was drafted it isn't a good comparison.

[grant101]

slander!

Fultz was never half the athetle Scoot

Yeah, I didn't say he was. I meant he was a consensus, can't miss #1 for pretty much the whole year. Ironically enough, folks were much higher on his shot than they are with Scoot's at the moment

Not so ironically Fultz had NERVE DAMAGE happen in his shooting shoulder that completely altered/killed his jumper so yes if the guy isn't the athlete Scoot is AND basically turned into Thybulle level shooter over the summer of which he was drafted it isn't a good comparison.

You're missing the point. GMs listen to offers and occasionally move down the draft board, even when presented with what to everyone seems to believe are can't miss prospects (e.g. fultz, luka)

[PhilBlackson]

Yeah, I didn't say he was. I meant he was a consensus, can't miss #1 for pretty much the whole year. Ironically enough, folks were much higher on his shot than they are with Scoot's at the moment

Not so ironically Fultz had NERVE DAMAGE happen in his shooting shoulder that completely altered/killed his jumper so yes if the guy isn't the athlete Scoot is AND basically turned into Thybulle level shooter over the summer of which he was drafted it isn't a good comparison.

You're missing the point. GMs listen to offers and occasionally move down the draft board, even when presented with what to everyone seems to believe are can't miss prospects (e.g. fultz, luka)

Listen and DO are very different things.

But again, Scoot was/is a higher level prospect than Fultz ever was.

This isn't Luka/Trae, where teams weren't seeing Luka firsthand enough, Scoot is right under their noses & actually pushed in front of their faces all the time, nor is their an international prospect of Luka's caliber that teams aren't sure on, they're sure of Vic so that slip up will not happen again lol.

Scoot separated himself from his class (minus Vic ofc) by the time he was 17 playing grown men in the G-League, while Fultz was in highschool hadn't even cleared Lonzo Ball, De'Aaron Fox or Dennis Smith Jr. He had to fight for it while he still had the ability to shoot. Scoot is now dominating in a league of grown men where there is no question and is just far more advanced as a ballhandler and playmaker than Fultz overall IN ADDITION to him being a far better athlete that isn't suddenly developing nerve damage to his shooting shoulder. You can't ignore the context in order to try to validate a stance.

[Psubs]

Yeah, I didn't say he was. I meant he was a consensus, can't miss #1 for pretty much the whole year. Ironically enough, folks were much higher on his shot than they are with Scoot's at the moment

Not so ironically Fultz had NERVE DAMAGE happen in his shooting shoulder that completely altered/killed his jumper so yes if the guy isn't the athlete Scoot is AND basically turned into Thybulle level shooter over the summer of which he was drafted it isn't a good comparison.

You're missing the point. GMs listen to offers and occasionally move down the draft board, even when presented with what to everyone seems to believe are can't miss prospects (e.g. fultz, luka)

There were no can't miss superstars in the Fultz draft. Fultz was top 5 for sure but it wasn't a good draft. I believe the feeling that there may be a few allstars but no guaranteed MVP candidiate. Embiid was the next Hakeem but injury concerns had him drop.

2017 was like the Kenyon Martin draft. I like Tatum because I'm a Duke fan but Lonzo was the 1st Ball brother and maybe he could reach allstar status if he fixed his shot mechanics. Josh Jackson bust but such good size and defensive potential, Fox was a blur. Jonathan Isaac crazy defensive potential and some offense. Unsure about Markkanen, could he guard with short arms. Since it's so flat, could get a Mitchell and Bam in the early teens.

In the 2019 draft it looked like a top 2 draft with Zion and Barrett in the fall BUT Ja Morant emerged as the #2 and Barrett got rightfully bumped after ending up shooting 31% from 3 and 67% FT. Now the rest of the 1st round:

#5 Garland
#13 Herro
#28 Poole
#29 Keldon Johnson

Is Gradey Dick the Herro of this draft?

I'd like to think outside of the top 2, the rest of the 1st round looks decent like 2021 and 2022 drafts.

[Psubs]

You may be right, but I think you underestimate the ego of a lot of front offices. Markelle Fultz was talked about in similar tones to Scoot. A can't miss point God. There's a possibility other GMs look to replicate the success Ainge did with Tatum (who was considered at least a tier below Fultz at the time). I don't think they'd trade out of the draft, but I absolutely think they at least seriously consider moving back a couple spots if the compensation is appealing enough.

slander!

Fultz was never half the athetle Scoot

Yeah, I didn't say he was. I meant he was a consensus, can't miss #1 for pretty much the whole year. Ironically enough, folks were much higher on his shot than they are with Scoot's at the moment

I guess we should pay attention to FT% as an indicator if 3pt% will translate to the NBA distance unless they are already shooting from deeper, like Dick and Emoni Bates. Bates is shooting 37% from 3 at 7.6 attempts per game and also from Curry range already. His FT shooting is a decent 77%.

[NotMyKawhi]

slander!

Fultz was never half the athetle Scoot

Yeah, I didn't say he was. I meant he was a consensus, can't miss #1 for pretty much the whole year. Ironically enough, folks were much higher on his shot than they are with Scoot's at the moment

I guess we should pay attention to FT% as an indicator if 3pt% will translate to the NBA distance unless they are already shooting from deeper, like Dick and Emoni Bates. Bates is shooting 37% from 3 at 7.6 attempts per game and also from Curry range already. His FT shooting is a decent 77%.

I'd stay away from Bates.

His team is 4-16 in a horrible conference. In the NBA he goes 0-82 on a bad team and if he plays w good players like he did before he transferred he is a nobody

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

Until we get a better picture of our wing situation given all the speculation regarding trades, my eyes are on Scoot only. He is an incredible prospect, you can tell the game comes easy to him and he is in control of everything that happens on the court. He plays with confidence and fire too. Love this kid's game, he is legit.

[grant101]

Not so ironically Fultz had NERVE DAMAGE happen in his shooting shoulder that completely altered/killed his jumper so yes if the guy isn't the athlete Scoot is AND basically turned into Thybulle level shooter over the summer of which he was drafted it isn't a good comparison.

You're missing the point. GMs listen to offers and occasionally move down the draft board, even when presented with what to everyone seems to believe are can't miss prospects (e.g. fultz, luka)

Listen and DO are very different things.

But again, Scoot was/is a higher level prospect than Fultz ever was.

This isn't Luka/Trae, where teams weren't seeing Luka firsthand enough, Scoot is right under their noses & actually pushed in front of their faces all the time, nor is their an international prospect of Luka's caliber that teams aren't sure on, they're sure of Vic so that slip up will not happen again lol.

Scoot separated himself from his class (minus Vic ofc) by the time he was 17 playing grown men in the G-League, while Fultz was in highschool hadn't even cleared Lonzo Ball, De'Aaron Fox or Dennis Smith Jr. He had to fight for it while he still had the ability to shoot. Scoot is now dominating in a league of grown men where there is no question and is just far more advanced as a ballhandler and playmaker than Fultz overall IN ADDITION to him being a far better athlete that isn't suddenly developing nerve damage to his shooting shoulder. You can't ignore the context in order to try to validate a stance.

Looks like we just disagree on this point, which is fine. That said, I think there's a little bit of revisionist history going on as well. I followed the draft quite closely, and Markelle was unarguably the consensus #1 from pretty much the U18s on (where he dominated), and was seen as having few to no weaknesses to his game. Not sure what the yips have to do with the point we are discussing. The trade happened before the draft.

Also, Luka was dominating in the Euroleague (not some backwater second division), which is another league full of men, with much better competition level than the gleague. He was extremely well scouted at the time. NBA teams had been taking european scouting seriously for a number of years by that time.

In any case, I'm not saying teams will trade #2, just that it's a possibility. And, in the cases where something similar has happened, it was usually a trade back of a couple spots, for additional compensation. We'll see I suppose