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Pacers Pick Tracking (Update: #19 officially)

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Re: Pacers Pick Tracking 

Post#1261 » by ArthurVandelay » Fri Apr 12, 2024 12:12 am

WuTang_OG wrote:
ArthurVandelay wrote:
JB7 wrote:
If the lottery chances were increased for the 5th and 6th worst teams, then there would be more incentive to tank at the end of the year for teams trying to get into the bottom 6.

I'm just surprised this year that there is more uncertainty it seems in the East than the West at this point in the season, considering how close the records were in the West this year.


That is why in addition to increasing the lottery spots to 6, you also flatten the odds (ie give more lottery balls to teams 7 through 14 at the expense of 1-6. Still give the worse teams more balls/greater advantage but make it such that the worst team in the league only has a 50% chance of picking top 6.

That will make a team truly wonder if INTENTIONALLY winning 20 games is truly worth the effort because make no mistake, it’s easy enough to be bad, but it takes a lot of work to be horrible. Trying to climb out of horrible after intentionally putting yourself there can be very difficult to do, ask Detroit. When the reward is likely to be pick #7, that should cause enough people to rethink their tank.


that helps but I think you will still have teams tank. For example, teams like BRK this year (lets imagine they owned their pick) could have said fk it , we are not far from bottom 6 ... lets just tank the rest of the way and hope for the best. Look at Utah, besides the fact that they wanted to keep their top 10 pick, it gives them more incentive to give up mid season and get into bottom 6. some mgm groups have a bigger picture in mind and will have support of ownership to not make play in for a better chance at getting # 1 , # 2 etc.

ultimately the only way to truly eliminate tanking is flattening the odds for all non playoff teams .. but what a shyt show that would be lol .. the small market teams wouldnt agree

sometimes i think about the wheel system they voted down yrs ago.. woulda fixed tanking in its entirety (something toronto and masai voted in favour of)

https://www.blazersedge.com/2024/4/11/24126453/nba-draft-position-tanking-the-wheel-system-portland-trail-blazers
https://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-nbas-possible-solution-for-tanking-good-bye-to-the-lottery-hello-to-the-wheel/
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That’s what I’m hoping happens.

Increase lottery, flatten odds.

Maybe one day I’ll sit down and work out the exact number of balls to each team…not today though lol
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Re: Pacers Pick Tracking 

Post#1262 » by DreamTeam09 » Fri Apr 12, 2024 12:42 am

There's 30 teams, you're gonna have a few bad teams yr over yr regardless. Even some teams near the top of the lottery like Memphis and perhaps Toronto aren't necessarily guaranteed to be there next yr. Spurs will be more competitive as well...
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Re: Pacers Pick Tracking 

Post#1263 » by ArthurVandelay » Fri Apr 12, 2024 9:02 am

Orlando vs Philly - go Philly
Cleveland vs Indy - go Cleveland

Need Philly to go 2-0 this weekend
Cleveland to go 2-0
Magic to win at least 1 game and go 1-1
To preferably go 0-2, but 1-1 is good enough

Magic holds tie break over Indiana

Indiana holds tie break over Philly
Indiana likely holds tie break with Cleveland even if Cavs win tonight unless Pacers lose to Hawks and Cabs beat Hornets
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Re: Pacers Pick Tracking 

Post#1264 » by WuTang_CMB » Fri Apr 12, 2024 1:22 pm

I said Philly would run the table once Embiid was back and looks like they are. 6 in a row , 7 tonight if they beat ORL which I think they will at home.
Cavs gotta give us something vs Indy tonight
Pistons on road with Mavs ... #31 all but locked up , 1 more loss for them or Wash win and its secured.
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Re: Pacers Pick Tracking 

Post#1265 » by YogurtProducer » Fri Apr 12, 2024 1:36 pm

ArthurVandelay wrote:
WuTang_OG wrote:
ArthurVandelay wrote:
That is why in addition to increasing the lottery spots to 6, you also flatten the odds (ie give more lottery balls to teams 7 through 14 at the expense of 1-6. Still give the worse teams more balls/greater advantage but make it such that the worst team in the league only has a 50% chance of picking top 6.

That will make a team truly wonder if INTENTIONALLY winning 20 games is truly worth the effort because make no mistake, it’s easy enough to be bad, but it takes a lot of work to be horrible. Trying to climb out of horrible after intentionally putting yourself there can be very difficult to do, ask Detroit. When the reward is likely to be pick #7, that should cause enough people to rethink their tank.


that helps but I think you will still have teams tank. For example, teams like BRK this year (lets imagine they owned their pick) could have said fk it , we are not far from bottom 6 ... lets just tank the rest of the way and hope for the best. Look at Utah, besides the fact that they wanted to keep their top 10 pick, it gives them more incentive to give up mid season and get into bottom 6. some mgm groups have a bigger picture in mind and will have support of ownership to not make play in for a better chance at getting # 1 , # 2 etc.

ultimately the only way to truly eliminate tanking is flattening the odds for all non playoff teams .. but what a shyt show that would be lol .. the small market teams wouldnt agree

sometimes i think about the wheel system they voted down yrs ago.. woulda fixed tanking in its entirety (something toronto and masai voted in favour of)

https://www.blazersedge.com/2024/4/11/24126453/nba-draft-position-tanking-the-wheel-system-portland-trail-blazers
https://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-nbas-possible-solution-for-tanking-good-bye-to-the-lottery-hello-to-the-wheel/
Image


That’s what I’m hoping happens.

Increase lottery, flatten odds.

Maybe one day I’ll sit down and work out the exact number of balls to each team…not today though lol

IMO I would be fine with every playoff team having equal odds - hell I would maybe even extend the lottery to the whole league and just mandate teams cannot move up more than 13 slots in the draft (so technically the champs could win the lottery, but their reward is pick 17).
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Re: Pacers Pick Tracking 

Post#1266 » by douggood » Fri Apr 12, 2024 3:47 pm

probably around expansion, we might have more tweaks to the lotto system. they already flattened lotto odds, they might do more flattening again.
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Re: Pacers Pick Tracking 

Post#1267 » by FTW » Fri Apr 12, 2024 11:51 pm

I already laid out the very best idea to structure the draft to disincentivize losing, reward trying to make the playoffs and/or get a high seed, but not potentially reward final teams with a top pick (as a random lottery might do):

FTW wrote:The real issue here is the lottery system. It rewards losing, and it rewards incompetence (poor drafting).

Want to fix it? OK. Then split the highest lottery odds like this:

1. All first-round playoff losers (8 teams) get slightly unequal odds for draft spots 1-8, with the highest odds reward to the losing teams who play the most games. Lose 3-4 you get slightly higher odds at #1; lose 0-4 and you get the slightly worst odds of the group.

2. The first two teams who missed the playoffs in each conference (4 total) get equal odds for picks 9-12.

3. The remaining five last-place teams in each conference (10 total) get equal odds (or unequal odds, if you’d like) for picks 13-22.

There you go. Being terrible is penalized. Trying to make bad teams better every year is rewarded. Trying to make the playoffs is rewarded. And actually being competitive once you get to the playoffs is also rewarded.

Is it perfect? No. You might end up with the Clippers sitting Kawhi and George to lose Game 7 to Minny in the first round in order to get best odds on Wemby. But teams are less likely to tank when in playoff situations, and ownership would also think twice about deliberately punting on a potential championship plus playoff games revenue. And if a team in a game 7 situation is willing to take that tanking risk, then it has even more tanking drama than we do now!

Problem fixed. #welcome
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Re: Pacers Pick Tracking 

Post#1268 » by CazOnReal » Sat Apr 13, 2024 12:19 am

I don't want to jinx it so I won't point out that the Cavs and 76ers are winning which would leave the door open for a Pacers play-in game.

I wouldn't do that to y'all.
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Re: Pacers Pick Tracking 

Post#1269 » by PD28 » Sat Apr 13, 2024 1:43 am

Evan Mobley is pretty disappointing
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Re: Pacers Pick Tracking 

Post#1270 » by Tor_Raps » Sat Apr 13, 2024 1:47 am

PD28 wrote:Evan Mobley is pretty disappointing


I actually thought he was going to be the best player from the draft class. It's crazy how he's hardly improved.
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Re: Pacers Pick Tracking 

Post#1271 » by Syd-TK3 » Sat Apr 13, 2024 1:54 am

The amount of possible outcomes for the seedings is pretty crazy
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Re: Pacers Pick Tracking 

Post#1272 » by SpezNc » Sat Apr 13, 2024 1:54 am

Cavaliers son
Worse case scenario averted

Pacers can’t catch Cavaliers anymore

I think pick 20 is the worse we can be
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Re: Pacers Pick Tracking 

Post#1273 » by PD28 » Sat Apr 13, 2024 1:55 am

Omw to the Memphis game lol
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Re: Pacers Pick Tracking 

Post#1274 » by SpezNc » Sat Apr 13, 2024 2:02 am

PD28 wrote:Omw to the Memphis game lol


I think we need a Lakers win over MEMPHIS

Assuming we lose to the Heat , we need the Lakers to beat the Pacers (in case Lakers won their play in games ) and enters the playoffs
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Re: Pacers Pick Tracking 

Post#1275 » by tecumseh18 » Sat Apr 13, 2024 2:12 am

ArthurVandelay wrote:Orlando vs Philly - go Philly
Cleveland vs Indy - go Cleveland

Need Philly to go 2-0 this weekend
Cleveland to go 2-0
Magic to win at least 1 game and go 1-1
To preferably go 0-2, but 1-1 is good enough

Magic holds tie break over Indiana

Indiana holds tie break over Philly
Indiana likely holds tie break with Cleveland even if Cavs win tonight unless Pacers lose to Hawks and Cabs beat Hornets


That's the play-in picture.

But in terms of the big picture, we need as many of these bunched up 45-46 win teams to tie or exceed the Pacers in wins as possible. Need Kings, Lakers and Warriors to win tonight. Then the coin flipping for draft position starts, and Pacers can move up several spots.

Man, why did JJ have to go down? Atl have zero incentive to play their main guys or win on Sunday.
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Re: Pacers Pick Tracking 

Post#1276 » by aminiaturebuddha » Sat Apr 13, 2024 2:53 am

Damn this stuff is getting complicated. What an exciting end to the season!

There are currently 3 other teams tied with Indiana with 46-35 records. And depending on the outcome of the Phoenix-Sacramento game tonight, another one could be in the mix. Plus GS is only a game back and still playing.

Looks like this pick could still land anywhere from 15-20 depending on what happens with the late games tonight and on Sunday. Although Indiana is playing an awful Hawks team on Sunday, so they'll probably end up with 47 wins.
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Re: Pacers Pick Tracking 

Post#1277 » by CazOnReal » Sat Apr 13, 2024 2:54 am

PD28 wrote:Evan Mobley is pretty disappointing

We'll get the superior Mobley in the draft.
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Re: Pacers Pick Tracking 

Post#1278 » by niQ » Sat Apr 13, 2024 3:13 am

Read on Twitter
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Re: Pacers Pick Tracking 

Post#1279 » by Syd-TK3 » Sat Apr 13, 2024 3:15 am

Yeah ATL is on the road with a meaningless game sucks but I doubt they even play their guys against the pacers.

Indiana most likely finishes 6th with the pick being 18/19
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Re: Pacers Pick Tracking 

Post#1280 » by tecumseh18 » Sat Apr 13, 2024 4:58 am

I love the Kings, but they are not serious people.

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