Jonas Valanciunas 11/12 Season Thread III

[Elastic]

Not watching this game, but keep this in mind. Even Aaron Gray gets touches with the Raptors. He even gets the odd mid range look, and isn't sure what to do with it. I'd be surprised if Jonas doesn't get 10 fga per game, even if Gary Forbes is our starting point guard. Also keep in mind that assists don't count for much in getting a European guard a new contract. But nba assists are a whole different matter. Guards like Jose make a living off assists and A/TO ratio.

Milos Teodosic, Marcelinho Huertas, Prabo Prigioni are scratching their heads... Wise European teams are always ready to pay a premium for such players, other teams (like Rytas) are happy to stack their PG slots with shooters and ball hoggers.

[Elastic]

Jonas playing good D this game Rakovic with Javtokas 4pt combined

Not watching the game....has Jonas bulked up? Has he been hitting the weight room?

At the moment his bulk and mass is reasonable to me and is becoming a negligible concern, but the bigger concern is the question where is his skill level at? With the way the Rytas offense is constructed, it is hard to answer this question. I just sometimes feel like JV's post game is at Javtokas level, the only difference being JV having a great soft touch. But why he hasnt learned (or been coached) how to utilize this touch, is beyond me and is a huge enigma to me.

[NiL8r87]

Jonas playing good D this game Rakovic with Javtokas 4pt combined

Not watching the game....has Jonas bulked up? Has he been hitting the weight room?

At the moment his bulk and mass is reasonable to me and is becoming a negligible concern, but the bigger concern is the question where is his skill level at? With the way the Rytas offense is constructed, it is hard to answer this question. I just sometimes feel like JV's post game is at Javtokas level, the only difference being JV having a great soft touch. But why he hasnt learned (or been coached) how to utilize this touch, is beyond me and is a huge enigma to me.

I've seen some good moves from him occasionally. I think it's just a matter of consistency, which it almost always is with a young player.

[Elastic]

Not watching the game....has Jonas bulked up? Has he been hitting the weight room?

At the moment his bulk and mass is reasonable to me and is becoming a negligible concern, but the bigger concern is the question where is his skill level at? With the way the Rytas offense is constructed, it is hard to answer this question. I just sometimes feel like JV's post game is at Javtokas level, the only difference being JV having a great soft touch. But why he hasnt learned (or been coached) how to utilize this touch, is beyond me and is a huge enigma to me.

I've seen some good moves from him occasionally. I think it's just a matter of consistency, which it almost always is with a young player.

Believe me, I have seen great moves from Javtokas as well, even the "scrub" Samardziski comes up with them occasionally. But I am trying to think on the aggregate level. Some players just know how and when to use their post moves, how to utilize their strengths, but Jonas doesnt posses this feeling. And having watched him play for three years, I havent seen a development by Jonas in this - knowledge of utilization - category. And this aspect makes me concerned whether Jonas is capable of doing it in the future.

The only facet where JV knows how to utilize himself is the pick and roll...

[Listas]

At the moment his bulk and mass is reasonable to me and is becoming a negligible concern, but the bigger concern is the question where is his skill level at? With the way the Rytas offense is constructed, it is hard to answer this question. I just sometimes feel like JV's post game is at Javtokas level, the only difference being JV having a great soft touch. But why he hasnt learned (or been coached) how to utilize this touch, is beyond me and is a huge enigma to me.

I've seen some good moves from him occasionally. I think it's just a matter of consistency, which it almost always is with a young player.

Believe me, I have seen great moves from Javtokas as well, even the "scrub" Samardziski comes up with them occasionally. But I am trying to think on the aggregate level. Some players just know how and when to use their post moves, how to utilize their strengths, but Jonas doesnt posses this feeling. And having watched him play for three years, I havent seen a development by Jonas in this - knowledge of utilization - category. And this aspect makes me concerned whether Jonas is capable of doing it in the future.

The only facet where JV knows how to utilize himself is the pick and roll...

To be perfectly fair, last season he was an 18 year old going up against grown men, he didn't have an adequate post game, and had a very specific role on that team. And this year he's made huge strides in that area, which you would know if you had watched him this season(he even showed some nice moves in Eurobasket against NBA players), the only reason Jonas is not posting up vs Zalgiris is because they double(and even triple) team him as soon as he gets the ball in the post and he still strugles against such defensive attention. Also Jonas is the only player on his team who can consistently play with his back to the basket, so this element of the game is not a big part of his team's game plan.

[BalticGiants]

Believe me, I have seen great moves from Javtokas as well, even the "scrub" Samardziski comes up with them occasionally. But I am trying to think on the aggregate level. Some players just know how and when to use their post moves, how to utilize their strengths, but Jonas doesnt posses this feeling. And having watched him play for three years, I havent seen a development by Jonas in this - knowledge of utilization - category. And this aspect makes me concerned whether Jonas is capable of doing it in the future.

The only facet where JV knows how to utilize himself is the pick and roll...

I see one tendency here and in Lithuania- most people got spoon-fed by Jonas' development. The ones who follows him closely remember that he was a "no individual effort player" last season in Euroleague and that means he was constantly going ONLY for pick and rolls, searching for the tip ins and that's it (ok, some face to face drives after a pump fake, but these were also extreamely rare). He barely had a constant role in Euroleague (still came up extreamely valuable in these minutes he had though) and even more he hand't a sure role for Rytas in the very first LKL final game (and that's basically before only one year). What I'm saying here that looking only ONE YEAR back we see TOTALLY deferent JV than he is now. He exploded in WC U19 and made very impressive jump in the Eurobasket. Than suddently everybody forgot that he's still the same kid that barely got some serious role in Euroleague 2010/2011. Now this season we saw plenty of time when Jonas takes the ball in his hands and makes a play (basket to basket post moves, spins, hooks and baybe hooks) and that's pretty much all season long (there was no back to basket game in 2010/2011 season basically and barely any individual attempts). In other words, he made a huge progress in one year and some people had some seriously demaged expectations about him after Eurobasket where he also most of occasions scored after pickandrolling with Jasikevičius. In some games he comes as matured player already, efficient as hell and coming out with 5/5 FG and if that isn't ability to utilize his game (for 19yo(he's fresh 20yo now)) than I don't know what is. And this is all playing with no point guard and horrible coach. Some-one really lost the track of JV progression and went to some utopian world while JV actual progression is still out out of this world (great).

Even now he's winning the matchup against Javtokas (in terms of utility) though he's not involved in offense and playing in that extreame chaos...To sum this up, people should hold some horses and to look at reality.

[JV4MVP]

Jonas Valanciunas Improvement since last year's draft:

[Raptor_Claw]

Rytas about to be swept...
Is this another title that is not that "important"?...

It's an automatic place in Euroleague regular season and the national title against the arch rival. So yeah, it's definitely important.

Rytas just isn't a good team. People here were claiming they were a "Euroleague level" team which was laughable. Like I tried to explain to people here, they have nowhere near the level of a Euroleague team. Zalgiris is a crappy team by Euroleague standards, but it actually IS a "Euroleague level" team. Not a good one by any means, but still that's a big difference.

It's just that most people here don't understand how much of a difference there is in levels of competition from LKL, and even Eurocup, to Euroleague. Some people here tried to argue that plenty of teams in these lower levels have the Euroleague level - but it just isn't true at all.

Khimky won Eurocup, and they would have sucked in Euroleague, and in fact didn't even qualify for it.

It's just that Rytas is playing against a team in Zalgiris, that has better players. Even though Zalgiris is pretty crappy by Euroleague standards, they have a team comprised of legit Euroleague level players (Kalnietis, Popovic, Jankunas, Javtokas).

Compare that to Rytas and I mean, come on. Guys like Rice being put to lead the team..........he didn't even meet the standard of Panionios when he was there. Jomantas? A team that is trying to rely on a 19 year old center to come up big in all important games? Rytas just isn't in the same level as a team. They have players that can compete great up until Eurocup Final Four, up until United League semis, up until LKL Finals, but then they will have problems, once they have to face much better teams.

This is just Valanciunas' team meeting their realistic expectations. They have basically maxed out their potential this season.

[raptor21_85]

Wider court, more wide open game and a better teammates will help him a lot. Current Rytas' ball and Jonas' off ball movement is all messed up.

And there is no way Jonas gets 10 FGAs.

11/12 season FGAs :

Bargnani 15.6
DeRozan 14.3
Barbosa 10.8
Calderon 9

Those are the leaders. Amir averages 5.3 in 24 minutes, Ed everages 5.08 in 23. I think at best... Jonas gets 7 attempts. Unless he really explodes, which is unlikely. I stay pessimistic, and think his rookie impact will be very small.

where u been..

just to add smth, do you consider the putbacks for off rebnds as touches (attempts)?? cause that doesnt mean they move the ball to him.. i dont want him to turn into another DeAndre Jordan with better FT shooting.. yes on D, but expecting more on O, definitely..

[Regulio]

I have no doubt Jonas will develop his offensive game further. You know, I haven't seen any 19-20 year old C with great post game, well apart from Sabonis , but I think it is unreasonable to expect it from him at this moment. In 4-5 years - yeah, but not now.
And I agree with Raptor_Claw, Rytas reached it's maximum peak, maybe they could have lucked out in some tournament but what they have achieved is probably the maximum that was possible. Zalgiris is just a better team now. Of course I think Dzikic is quite a bad coach to be honest, to me it seems he doesn't know what to do in games, thus no time-outs in crucial time. Their inability to defend pick & roll is ridiculous, I didn't think it was possible to fail so much at this level. It's not like Zalgiris have Stockton & Malone running PnR, Kalnietis pretty much sucks at it too, but still they own Rytas like some village team. Defending against Jasikevicius pnr would probably make them cry.

[BalticGiants]

It's not like Zalgiris have Stockton & Malone running PnR, Kalnietis pretty much sucks at it too, but still they own Rytas like some village team. Defending against Jasikevicius pnr would probably make them cry.

Kalnietis playing top quality basketball lately. Last game he had 17 points and 11 assists. Great passing, no doubt better than any player except Calderon in Raptors Kalnietis improved very much last two years as PG, also the shooting. He averages 16 points and 7 assists (huge in European standarts) in last 4 games against Rytas. Let's not forget than even Ty Lawson didn't look better than Kanlietis in Žalgiris with all that crazy rotation durring the season. Now when there's normal rotation and Kalnietis gets minutes as first PG - he's great (he is good in NT as well).

And sorry, but Raptor_Claw is making some nonsence conculsions here (and not only here I've noticed). Rytas is no doubt Euroleague's quality team and they had too much with Eurocup's final 4, Baltic league final 4 and VTB final 4 + LKL playoffs and now LKL finals. They are done.

Last year Rytas was not too far from Euroleague's top 8 and they are usually good in Euroleague so let's not talk bull.... Džikič sucks, but Rytas is out of their feet as well.

Look at this video: plenty of great passes by Kalnietis, and notice last two places. If Rytas would have Kalnietis we would see different JV no doubt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... rX6N-pti8#!

[Regulio]

Sure Kalnietis is probably the best PG in our NT atm, but PnR is not his strength. I haven't followed his game this season to be honest so maybe he improved in that area.

[juostu]

Last game of season for Jonas with his crappy teammates and moron coach in 9 hrs

[GooniesNeverDie]

when are the olympic qualifiers?

[juostu]

when are the olympic qualifiers?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_FIBA_ ... Tournament

[LithuanianOne]

Last game of season for Jonas with his crappy teammates and moron coach in 9 hrs

PROBABLY (most likely) his last game of the club season, last game with "Lietuvos Rytas" club.

[raptor21_85]

are they kinda givin a farewell?? like good riddance or smth?

[LithuanianOne]

are they kinda givin a farewell?? like good riddance or smth?

They're playing away not home so I doubt there will anything like that. IF they win this game thought the 4th game will be played in Vilnius so maybe there will be something organised. There will be a season conclusion party anyway after this series is over.

[Darknemo2000]

Rytas about to be swept...
Is this another title that is not that "important"?...

It's an automatic place in Euroleague regular season and the national title against the arch rival. So yeah, it's definitely important.

Rytas just isn't a good team. People here were claiming they were a "Euroleague level" team which was laughable. Like I tried to explain to people here, they have nowhere near the level of a Euroleague team. Zalgiris is a crappy team by Euroleague standards, but it actually IS a "Euroleague level" team. Not a good one by any means, but still that's a big difference.

It's just that most people here don't understand how much of a difference there is in levels of competition from LKL, and even Eurocup, to Euroleague. Some people here tried to argue that plenty of teams in these lower levels have the Euroleague level - but it just isn't true at all.

Khimky won Eurocup, and they would have sucked in Euroleague, and in fact didn't even qualify for it.

It's just that Rytas is playing against a team in Zalgiris, that has better players. Even though Zalgiris is pretty crappy by Euroleague standards, they have a team comprised of legit Euroleague level players (Kalnietis, Popovic, Jankunas, Javtokas).

Compare that to Rytas and I mean, come on. Guys like Rice being put to lead the team..........he didn't even meet the standard of Panionios when he was there. Jomantas? A team that is trying to rely on a 19 year old center to come up big in all important games? Rytas just isn't in the same level as a team. They have players that can compete great up until Eurocup Final Four, up until United League semis, up until LKL Finals, but then they will have problems, once they have to face much better teams.

This is just Valanciunas' team meeting their realistic expectations. They have basically maxed out their potential this season.

Rytas is a good team. Last year they almost got themselves to the top 8 in euroleague. Doesnt happen to the crappy teams/ It just seems that Rytas is drained physically and emotionally - too slow and too tired as their schedule is much more strained than zalgiris.

Would have they won Zalgiris in 5 game series if they were fresh? No, zalgiris is a better team but by not much it would have been a close 3-2 win, not a 3-0 sweep that we will have now (Rytas has no chances of winning one in Kaunas with the form they are demonstrating in these last two-three weeks).

Rytas roster has lapses though. No PG (Rice is a crap at looking for teammates and making while rasic plays out of his position which is more of sg). They have a horrible coach who puts zone on good shooting team and alwaysruns the perimeter plays rather than using PnR and Jonas inside. What is more on offesive end he always gets owned by opponent zone and PnR... Really a bad coach.

Jonas is good, Seibutis is good, Roberts is ok, Jomantas is ok, Katelynas is ok, Redikas is ok, Samadjiski is not so good, Dilys is not so good, Rasic is not so good, Rice is a crap (from Pg perspective, otherwise he is ok), Dambrauskas is a crap, Babrauskas is an uttercrap. Thats kind of team Rytas have this year but with good coaching they could have done better even with this roster.

[JV4MVP]

Didn't Jasikevicius commit to playing in the qualifiers? Him and Val do the pick & roll in beast mode.