Tank World Order

[Johnny Bball]

I've spelled out what I would like to be done in vivid detail countless times across multiple threads including this one. Plenty of those convos included you, but keep the blinders on and making up stuff.

You're trying to call me out on ignoring bringing on high priced vets for assets when I've been the one advocating that from the start.

Tanking is one specific aspect of a rebuild. Its about building up an asset basd which includes trades, free agency and the draft.

Yeah there is no movement in the NBA except for that massive league shifting 4 team deal. There definitely isn't any trade activity that will occur as a result or response to that.

My response is very **** obviously that James Harden don’t demand a trade the first week of the season every year. But...You really think that’s a valid argument? So very disingenuous again. And there won’t be until nearer to deadline. Because most GMs tend not to be knee jerking petulant people that base their franchise future decisions off six game sample sizes.

Masai and company can choose who they receive in a trade. People are acting like he will have to take on high money vets at gun point to get a deal done. You can always make more moves down the road if you pick up another vet in a deal.

Yeah... this is a sentence that really advocates for trading for bad contracts. Again, it would be something you should WANT to do.

And you’ve spelled out nothing. And the reality is that as of today, there is likely only one team that we are a match with, in a lowry and larger trade. One. I’ll let you figure out which.


And yeah, tanking and rebuilding are not the same thanks for admitting it finally.

[ATLTimekeeper]

IIRC Trump supporters were blinded by delusion and kept telling everyone they won the election even though they had clearly lost.

Kind of like people see how mediocre this team is and continue to tell people that the Raptors can make it past the first round

I know of at least two posters here that believed last year's highly mediocre Brooklyn Nets would upset the Raptors in the first round. Is that the kind of thing you're referencing here?

[djsunyc]

none of us effect anything front office or management does.

we have seen championship teams built in different ways.

none of us really know what the best decisions are.

and a lot of luck is involved.

i think all the statements above are facts. so taking those facts into consideration should be used to determine how you watch the raptors and really the nba in general.

some folks choose to ignore some or all of them. some folks need to "criticize' something bc it makes them feel involved and important.

i mean there's some deep psychological stuff with online forums and how and why folks post and post the way they do. usually it displays who they really are but amplified behind the anonymity.

there are definitely some legit concerns with the team that everyone acknowledges and accepts but coming to one conclusion on how to fix things and then making every single thought, statement and post about that one conclusion doesn't show any real honest attempt at dialogue.

[bluerap23]

I'm genuinely curious, just trying to have a civil discussion with the proponents for winning with what we have. Johnny Bball, maybe trade for Kyrie if he becomes disgruntled on the Nets?

Sign Kawhi and Ibaka in the off-season after the Clippers lose in the 1st or 2nd round just like they do every year.

You really think Kawhi is going to comeback here after leaving this team when it won a Championship. lol come on man, the only reason he signed a 2 year deal is so that he could get a 10 year vet max instead of a the 7-9.

No I don't. Forgot the green font.

[Hero]

none of us effect anything front office or management does.

we have seen championship teams built in different ways.

none of us really know what the best decisions are.

and a lot of luck is involved.

i think all the statements above are facts. so taking those facts into consideration should be used to determine how you watch the raptors and really the nba in general.

some folks choose to ignore some or all of them. some folks need to "criticize' something bc it makes them feel involved and important.

i mean there's some deep psychological stuff with online forums and how and why folks post and post the way they do. usually it displays who they really are but amplified behind the anonymity.

there are definitely some legit concerns with the team that everyone acknowledges and accepts but coming to one conclusion on how to fix things and then making every single thought, statement and post about that one conclusion doesn't show any real honest attempt at dialogue.

It's not an apples to apples comparison when comparing how Championship teams are build. Orgs like the Lakers, Celtics, Heat etc have a huge advantage to the Raptors when it comes to recruiting top talent. For them signing top tier FAs is actually a reasonable and realistic way to go about building a top level team.

For the Raptors? How many big FA signings has this org gotten? Did KD meet with them? Did LeBron?

[Danny1616]

I've spelled out what I would like to be done in vivid detail countless times across multiple threads including this one. Plenty of those convos included you, but keep the blinders on and making up stuff.

You're trying to call me out on ignoring bringing on high priced vets for assets when I've been the one advocating that from the start.

Tanking is one specific aspect of a rebuild. Its about building up an asset basd which includes trades, free agency and the draft.

Yeah there is no movement in the NBA except for that massive league shifting 4 team deal. There definitely isn't any trade activity that will occur as a result or response to that.

No you constantly use insane mental gymnastics to justify your crackpot theories.

You literally went from full out tanking to talking about stealth tanking and getting a top 15 pick.

So your solution went from being a bottom 5 team to a treadmill middle of the pack team, LMAO.

You don't really have a vision or anything, you just hate to see the Raptors win. Your life revolves around hoping the Raptors lose.

My suggestion is for you stop watching this team at all until we do one day get a top 5 pick. No point of wasting your time. Your time this year is literally spent hoping we lose every game.

[tecumseh18]

none of us effect anything front office or management does.

It's easy to see that media takes ideas from online fori, and we've learned teams assign low level guys to pay attention to what we're talking about. Colangelo may well have had a burner account. Masai was clearly not adverse to tanking in 2013 - Lowry was almost out the door and we now know that DeMar would have followed soon thereafter. I wouldn't be surprised if the management team was gauging the temperature of online chatter. Of course, any such decision depends on a lot of factors, and the Knicks trade being veto'd and the team gaining some statement wins ultimately turned the tide.

I can go either way on this, but I always knew Masai was never going to trade away young, controlled assets like OG, Fred or Pascal for mediocre draft picks or aging star vets. Raps are not in a bad spot. I just looking at the 2017 draft to remind myself where TJ Leaf went, and in the first round from #13 to #23 you've got Donovan, Bam, John Collins, Jarrett Allen and OG. Every draft year is different, but with the Raps scouting, I think ending up with a pick in the teens this season has a good chance to yield and excellent return. No need to cheer for losses.

[Basketball_Jones]

TWO is pathetic

Agreed. 9th baybeeeee let’s goooo

Or you know, make the playoffs and compete. Like athletes are supposed to?

Oh for sure, we're competing!

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

After we rattle off six or seven in a row, this wont be much of a debate.

Then, they'll turn on Lowry for their pick fix.

[Pooh_Jeter]

Imagine having countless words available that spell out what TWO, tanking and a rebuild mean and still not understanding even the very basic concept of what it entails. You don't have to agree with it (There are differing views within TWO itself), but to make up fake arguments, blatantly lie and then come in here with an assortment of personal attacks is hilarious. Of course everyone from Team Mediocre has a lot to say while the Raptors are winning. This is one of the main differences, a vision means a plan for the future while Team Mediocre is only capable of thinking in the here and now and desperately trying to maintain the past.

[KL78192020]

After we rattle off six or seven in a row, this wont be much of a debate.

Then, they'll turn on Lowry for their pick fix.

No ones turning on anyone. Trading Lowry is preferable for a rebuild as a general opinion, but if Masai wants to win now so be it. Hope he signs him back as a free agent in the summer.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

No ones turning on anyone. Trading Lowry is preferable for a rebuild as a general opinion, but if Masai wants to win now so be it. Hope he signs him back as a free agent in the summer.

So long as we don't end up with a member of the "Ball" family on our team, I'm good either way.

[Johnny Bball]

Imagine having countless words available that spell out what TWO, tanking and a rebuild mean and still not understanding even the very basic concept of what it entails. You don't have to agree with it (There are differing views within TWO itself), but to make up fake arguments, blatantly lie and then come in here with an assortment of personal attacks is hilarious. Of course everyone from Team Mediocre has a lot to say while the Raptors are winning. This is one of the main differences, a vision means a plan for the future while Team Mediocre is only capable of thinking in the here and now and desperately trying to maintain the past.

Amazes me you can use mental gymnastics to make a post like this that both so hypocritical and obtuse.

Personal attack. Enjoy some time off.
niQ

[OakleyDokely]

In order to tank and get a top 5 pick, the Raps will need to trade Lowry plus 2 out of Siakam/OG/VanVleet. The Raps have too many competent players to finish near the bottom of the league.

[Steelo Green]

The hubris after a 7-9 record is a bit odd.

[MixxSRC]

The hubris after a 7-9 record is a bit odd.

They are happy to be mediocre.

[KL78192020]

The hubris after a 7-9 record is a bit odd.

The 2-8 start wasn't really expected. Things have swung back to the norm, and they will probably finish just around .500 by the end of the year. Unless Masai changes his mind, this team is going to finish somewhere from 7th to 9th in the east. Most people predicted a 6-8 to seed.

[Pooh_Jeter]

The Cavs are better than the Raptors, have a much better nucleus of young talent and are in a position to deal vets like Love, Drummond and Love for assets without affecting their on court production at all. They lost a top 3 player of all time for nothing and they did this in 2 years basically.

Drummond's value was non-existent when they acquired him for scraps and even if they end up with two 2nd rounders they basically doubled their value.

They got assets to take on McGee and they will end up getting probably another 2nd at least for him.

The Cavs were tanking for high picks, didn't get the picks they necesarily wanted, but still are in a great position because lone behold, tanking doesn't just involve trading everyone and praying for a #1 pick.

Tanking involves rebuilding and rebuilding involves asset collection which the Cavs have been smart about.

[aj174]

I've been following this team for as long as I can remember, and been on this forum since the Bosh days. One thing I want to say is we have to stop grouping each other into categories guys. Team Mediocre vs TWO, its not as binary as it seems. Just cause I don't want to see my team purposely lose or be awful doesn't mean I want my team to be "mediocre" for a long period of time. We all want the same thing and that's to see this team get to the top again.

I watch this team for fun, and I've gotten more than that in the last 7 years. I don't care if we end up being a first round team the next few years because this is the natural progression of a contending team that ages. I'll never root for tanking unless its obvious we're not winning more than 30 games. I think the only time I was rooting for that was when Bosh left, and we picked JV. Good player but not the type of player that can be had at #5.

Guys, just trust this organization. They created a winning culture and have great development staff. You really think a team with these hustlers are bad enough for a top 5 pick? No. I also agree this team isn't good enough to be top 5 in the league either. Enjoy it for what it is for now. I wasn't for tanking even after we got swept by the Cavs a 2nd time, then out of nowhere we traded for Kawhi. Random, lucky, but that happens when you try hard.

[TrustFundBaby]

The Cavs are better than the Raptors, have a much better nucleus of young talent and are in a position to deal vets like Love, Drummond and Love for assets without affecting their on court production at all. They lost a top 3 player of all time for nothing and they did this in 2 years basically.

Drummond's value was non-existent when they acquired him for scraps and even if they end up with two 2nd rounders they basically doubled their value.

They got assets to take on McGee and they will end up getting probably another 2nd at least for him.

The Cavs were tanking for high picks, didn't get the picks they necesarily wanted, but still are in a great position because lone behold, tanking doesn't just involve trading everyone and praying for a #1 pick.

Tanking involves rebuilding and rebuilding involves asset collection which the Cavs have been smart about.

Be honest, if we came out of a rebuild with Sexland, LN Jr and Allen, this board would be in shambles

The same people saying this current core is going nowhere would be the first ones saying that core can't win it all and they blew the tank

Like I can confidently say these Cavs accomplish nothing in the next 5 years