Draft Thread Part 2

[StringerBell]

Jalen is hard to get a read on, but there are red flags. I mean Zion and Kyrie stuck it out, same with Tatum. All of them had injuries but still finished their Duke year.

Johnson just didn't have the most impactful time on court where he averaged only 11 and 6, but what stuck out was that I just didn't see a great jumper (he hit 8 threes on a small number of tries, but his freethrows were below average and he never showed a go to jumpshot.) His size and athleticism remind me of Aaron Gordon - which to me is the greatest of NBA teases. He looks like he should be a star player, but falls short due to his mental make-up.

I just don't have a read on him, but I kind of hope someone else above Toronto takes him (hello Kings!) and we can watch how his career goes from a far.

I'm with you. Don't have great read on him either and there isn't much footage of him out there. But but given everything we know I'd rather they pass given his mental makeup. Not only does it effect how he plays on the court but also determines how much work he's willing to put into getting better and improve(in this case his 3 pt shot).

I like the Aaron Gordon comp and to take it a step further - compare Gordon's improvement vs OG's. OG's improved his 3 pt shot, ftr, ft% and his handle; Gordon otoh seemed to make a jump in 2018 but has since regressed. Part of that may be due to Toronto's developmental program but at the end of the day it's up to the player. And while Johnson does have the raw physical tools, there are just too many other good players to risk a lotto pick on him.

Poor Sactown. Should be entertaining if they decide to draft Johnson in that losing environment.

I think Scottie Barnes should be able to fit in to help defense and facilitate.

Much rather Barnes over J.Johnson for sure. Wouldn't be mad at Barnes either but he's most likely gone in the top 7. I like Moody or Keon Johnson at our projected pick 8-9.

[vanhill]

Ooof. No athlete wants to hear that from their coach. Yikes.

Jalen is hard to get a read on, but there are red flags. I mean Zion and Kyrie stuck it out, same with Tatum. All of them had injuries but still finished their Duke year.

Johnson just didn't have the most impactful time on court where he averaged only 11 and 6, but what stuck out was that I just didn't see a great jumper (he hit 8 threes on a small number of tries, but his freethrows were below average and he never showed a go to jumpshot.) His size and athleticism remind me of Aaron Gordon - which to me is the greatest of NBA teases. He looks like he should be a star player, but falls short due to his mental make-up.

I just don't have a read on him, but I kind of hope someone else above Toronto takes him (hello Kings!) and we can watch how his career goes from a far.

I'm with you. Don't have great read on him either and there isn't much footage of him out there. But but given everything we know I'd rather they pass given his mental makeup. Not only does it effect how he plays on the court but also determines how much work he's willing to put into getting better and improve(in this case his 3 pt shot).

I like the Aaron Gordon comp and to take it a step further - compare Gordon's improvement vs OG's. OG's improved his 3 pt shot, ftr, ft% and his handle; Gordon otoh seemed to make a jump in 2018 but has since regressed. Part of that may be due to Toronto's developmental program but at the end of the day it's up to the player. And while Johnson does have the raw physical tools, there are just too many other good players to risk a lotto pick on him.

Poor Sactown. Should be entertaining if they decide to draft Johnson in that losing environment.

I think without those red flags and if Johnson managed to play thru his freshman season, his draft stock might rises even higher.
I think Johnson reminds me of Tatum have less offensive tools but with better defensive skills at 19. He has pretty good handle and able to create chances for his teammates.

But then again, Jalen johnson is the highe risk/high return guy.

Let's hope that we get the top4 pick to make things slightly easier

[Indeed]

Jalen is hard to get a read on, but there are red flags. I mean Zion and Kyrie stuck it out, same with Tatum. All of them had injuries but still finished their Duke year.

Johnson just didn't have the most impactful time on court where he averaged only 11 and 6, but what stuck out was that I just didn't see a great jumper (he hit 8 threes on a small number of tries, but his freethrows were below average and he never showed a go to jumpshot.) His size and athleticism remind me of Aaron Gordon - which to me is the greatest of NBA teases. He looks like he should be a star player, but falls short due to his mental make-up.

I just don't have a read on him, but I kind of hope someone else above Toronto takes him (hello Kings!) and we can watch how his career goes from a far.

I'm with you. Don't have great read on him either and there isn't much footage of him out there. But but given everything we know I'd rather they pass given his mental makeup. Not only does it effect how he plays on the court but also determines how much work he's willing to put into getting better and improve(in this case his 3 pt shot).

I like the Aaron Gordon comp and to take it a step further - compare Gordon's improvement vs OG's. OG's improved his 3 pt shot, ftr, ft% and his handle; Gordon otoh seemed to make a jump in 2018 but has since regressed. Part of that may be due to Toronto's developmental program but at the end of the day it's up to the player. And while Johnson does have the raw physical tools, there are just too many other good players to risk a lotto pick on him.

Poor Sactown. Should be entertaining if they decide to draft Johnson in that losing environment.

I think without those red flags and if Johnson managed to play thru his freshman season, his draft stock might rises even higher.
I think Johnson reminds me of Tatum have less offensive tools but with better defensive skills at 19. He has pretty good handle and able to create chances for his teammates.

But then again, Jalen johnson is the highe risk/high return guy.

Let's hope that we get the top4 pick to make things slightly easier

Jalen Johnson would be the better prospect compare to Barnes, he has a better vertical and athleticism. But I don't think he is Tatum level. Maybe better than Gordon in ball penetration instead of shooting, but not expecting his offense to carry a team. Maybe 2nd option at best.

[Psubs]

Ooooooh, I do like the comp for JJ being a 6'9 average of Tatum and Aaron Gordon. Less athleticism than Gordon and less handles than Tatum.

[planetmars]

Currently a fan of Keon Johnson with our pick.. can a Moody fan try to sway my opinion?

Johnson is a more explosive athlete with much better handles. But I feel like we have a guy like him already in Jalen Harris. Both are listed at 6'5. Both are good athletes. The big difference between the two is that Keon plays defense but Harris can shoot. I mean Keon was a 27% 3pt shooter and a 70% FT shooter. Shooting is the easiest thing to teach, but it's not part of his arsenal already. It's the 70% free throw rate that worries me more than his 3pt shooting which is quite bad.

Moody has shaky handles. Struggles to create for himself or others. But he's the prototypical 3&D player. In the mold of Mikhail Bridges. And his advanced stats just jump off the page for me. You can't go wrong with a 7'0 wingspan for a guy out on the wing.

Just comparing the two freshman years:

Keon - 27 games, started in 17. 97.7 ORTG, 94.5 DRTG, 51.9 TS%, 2.1 WS, .124 WS/40, 4.1 BPM, 16.3 PER
Moses - 32 games, started in all 32. 119.5 ORTG, 98.1 DRTG, 56.8 TS%, 5.2 WS, .193 WS/40, 7.4 BPM, 20.4 PER

Moody looks like a winner. His WS and BPM just tell me that when he's on the court, his team has a better chance of winning his minutes than when Keon is on the court.

[Gold Dragon]

Great video digging into Davion Mitchell:

Watch on YouTube

The first few minutes just show his elite defense which is really what pops on film. I don't think there is another prospect like him, other than maybe Deuce McBride. Add in the OTD shooting, blow-by speed and being able to rise to the occasion, I just don't see why this guy can't be worthy of a lottery pick. Just watch how he works on Cade Cunningham.

The video does show his passing ability showing some nice skill but he does have areas for improvement (at the rim finishing/floater). If the way to Nurse's heart is to defend, this guy will be a starter day one. FVV and Mitchell will be tough to score against.

Davion seems destinted to be a Raptor. The fit is just phenomenal. The Lowry comp is uncanny. Imagining a Davion, FVV, OG, Pascal suffocating perimeter defense is drool worthy.

Other teams will question his age and measurables. Ranadive who has a thing for tournament darlings will likely be picking after us. Weltmann/Hammond will probably be looking younger with higher offensive upside than Davion but with two picks they may target Davion with one of them.

[rapsdotcom]

I get the desire to label Davion Mitchell as a natural Kyle successor, but he’s really lacking in the playmaking department. From a pure pit bull mentality/style standpoint I see it, but he’s not a pick and roll creator at all right now.

While that part of his game could obviously develop, it’s not in his repertoire right now. I wouldn’t be totally against him as the pick, but I’d probably go with Keon Johnson over him. Has defensive chops, crazy athleticism and more upside as a scorer. Bigger too.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[gerrit4]

Great video digging into Davion Mitchell:

Watch on YouTube

The first few minutes just show his elite defense which is really what pops on film. I don't think there is another prospect like him, other than maybe Deuce McBride. Add in the OTD shooting, blow-by speed and being able to rise to the occasion, I just don't see why this guy can't be worthy of a lottery pick. Just watch how he works on Cade Cunningham.

The video does show his passing ability showing some nice skill but he does have areas for improvement (at the rim finishing/floater). If the way to Nurse's heart is to defend, this guy will be a starter day one. FVV and Mitchell will be tough to score against.

Davion seems destinted to be a Raptor. The fit is just phenomenal. The Lowry comp is uncanny. Imagining a Davion, FVV, OG, Pascal suffocating perimeter defense is drool worthy.

Other teams will question his age and measurables. Ranadive who has a thing for tournament darlings will likely be picking after us. Weltmann/Hammond will probably be looking younger with higher offensive upside than Davion but with two picks they may target Davion with one of them.

The arguments against Davion are totally fair, especially about his age. But watching the final game (the only one I watched of him), I totally fell in love with his game. I'd love to root for that guy. He looked like the type of player that would be completely frustrating to score against.

The last player I felt this way about (not as a defender, but just a player I loved to watch in college and wanted to root for) was Kemba.

[CoinTossRoss31]

Currently a fan of Keon Johnson with our pick.. can a Moody fan try to sway my opinion?

Johnson is a more explosive athlete with much better handles. But I feel like we have a guy like him already in Jalen Harris. Both are listed at 6'5. Both are good athletes. The big difference between the two is that Keon plays defense but Harris can shoot. I mean Keon was a 27% 3pt shooter and a 70% FT shooter. Shooting is the easiest thing to teach, but it's not part of his arsenal already. It's the 70% free throw rate that worries me more than his 3pt shooting which is quite bad.

Moody has shaky handles. Struggles to create for himself or others. But he's the prototypical 3&D player. In the mold of Mikhail Bridges. And his advanced stats just jump off the page for me. You can't go wrong with a 7'0 wingspan for a guy out on the wing.

Just comparing the two freshman years:

Keon - 27 games, started in 17. 97.7 ORTG, 94.5 DRTG, 51.9 TS%, 2.1 WS, .124 WS/40, 4.1 BPM, 16.3 PER
Moses - 32 games, started in all 32. 119.5 ORTG, 98.1 DRTG, 56.8 TS%, 5.2 WS, .193 WS/40, 7.4 BPM, 20.4 PER

Moody looks like a winner. His WS and BPM just tell me that when he's on the court, his team has a better chance of winning his minutes than when Keon is on the court.

How would you compare Moody to Ross who was supposed to come in and be a 3-D guy with not the greatest handles, but good athleticism?

[Indeed]

Great video digging into Davion Mitchell:

Watch on YouTube

The first few minutes just show his elite defense which is really what pops on film. I don't think there is another prospect like him, other than maybe Deuce McBride. Add in the OTD shooting, blow-by speed and being able to rise to the occasion, I just don't see why this guy can't be worthy of a lottery pick. Just watch how he works on Cade Cunningham.

The video does show his passing ability showing some nice skill but he does have areas for improvement (at the rim finishing/floater). If the way to Nurse's heart is to defend, this guy will be a starter day one. FVV and Mitchell will be tough to score against.

Davion seems destinted to be a Raptor. The fit is just phenomenal. The Lowry comp is uncanny. Imagining a Davion, FVV, OG, Pascal suffocating perimeter defense is drool worthy.

Other teams will question his age and measurables. Ranadive who has a thing for tournament darlings will likely be picking after us. Weltmann/Hammond will probably be looking younger with higher offensive upside than Davion but with two picks they may target Davion with one of them.

Some suggested that Orlando may look for SF/PF over PG. Not surprised they have Keon/Kuminga (defense with ball handling) and Wagner/Kispert (3 point shooting).

I still see Keon being the closest to 6th (for rebuild teams), while Barnes and Jalen Johnson may fill a need for most rebuild teams being 7th. Even Moody and Bouknight are for rebuild teams as well.

The question for us is more about drafting someone who is ready vs development.
Davion would be a NBA ready prospect with a high ceiling (if his shot is real, or the Raptors development program can make it real). Otherwise, there are few prospects we can select.

[Psubs]

Other teams will question his age and measurables. Ranadive who has a thing for tournament darlings will likely be picking after us. Weltmann/Hammond will probably be looking younger with higher offensive upside than Davion but with two picks they may target Davion with one of them.

I wonder if Orlando goes with Johnson & Johnson!

PG Anthony - Fultz
SG Fultz/Ross - Keon
SF Harris/Bacon - Jalen
PF Issac - Okeke - Jalen
C Carter/Bamba

Let the kids earn their spots in the rotation.

[planetmars]

Currently a fan of Keon Johnson with our pick.. can a Moody fan try to sway my opinion?

Johnson is a more explosive athlete with much better handles. But I feel like we have a guy like him already in Jalen Harris. Both are listed at 6'5. Both are good athletes. The big difference between the two is that Keon plays defense but Harris can shoot. I mean Keon was a 27% 3pt shooter and a 70% FT shooter. Shooting is the easiest thing to teach, but it's not part of his arsenal already. It's the 70% free throw rate that worries me more than his 3pt shooting which is quite bad.

Moody has shaky handles. Struggles to create for himself or others. But he's the prototypical 3&D player. In the mold of Mikhail Bridges. And his advanced stats just jump off the page for me. You can't go wrong with a 7'0 wingspan for a guy out on the wing.

Just comparing the two freshman years:

Keon - 27 games, started in 17. 97.7 ORTG, 94.5 DRTG, 51.9 TS%, 2.1 WS, .124 WS/40, 4.1 BPM, 16.3 PER
Moses - 32 games, started in all 32. 119.5 ORTG, 98.1 DRTG, 56.8 TS%, 5.2 WS, .193 WS/40, 7.4 BPM, 20.4 PER

Moody looks like a winner. His WS and BPM just tell me that when he's on the court, his team has a better chance of winning his minutes than when Keon is on the court.

How would you compare Moody to Ross who was supposed to come in and be a 3-D guy with not the greatest handles, but good athleticism?

I think Ross was the better shooter, and Moody is probably the better defender, but it's hard to say. The one key difference is that Ross' wingspan was something like 6'7, where as Moody's is at 7'0. Moody can also keep growing since he's still 18 (will turn 19 by the end of the month).

[Dalek]

Great video digging into Davion Mitchell:

Watch on YouTube

The first few minutes just show his elite defense which is really what pops on film. I don't think there is another prospect like him, other than maybe Deuce McBride. Add in the OTD shooting, blow-by speed and being able to rise to the occasion, I just don't see why this guy can't be worthy of a lottery pick. Just watch how he works on Cade Cunningham.

The video does show his passing ability showing some nice skill but he does have areas for improvement (at the rim finishing/floater). If the way to Nurse's heart is to defend, this guy will be a starter day one. FVV and Mitchell will be tough to score against.

Davion seems destinted to be a Raptor. The fit is just phenomenal. The Lowry comp is uncanny. Imagining a Davion, FVV, OG, Pascal suffocating perimeter defense is drool worthy.

Other teams will question his age and measurables. Ranadive who has a thing for tournament darlings will likely be picking after us. Weltmann/Hammond will probably be looking younger with higher offensive upside than Davion but with two picks they may target Davion with one of them.

The arguments against Davion are totally fair, especially about his age. But watching the final game (the only one I watched of him), I totally fell in love with his game. I'd love to root for that guy. He looked like the type of player that would be completely frustrating to score against.

The last player I felt this way about (not as a defender, but just a player I loved to watch in college and wanted to root for) was Kemba.

I totally get the age thing but Toronto always drafts kind of old other than a few exceptions like OG and Bruno. Davion is going to be the same age as FVV when he started with Toronto. Of course, there is a big difference between taking a flyer on an undrafted guy versus a lottery pick. I love guys who go all out like Davion. Maybe he is not supposed to be worth a lottery pick, but his progression over the course of two years and even month by month was crazy. Like Kemba, he rose to the occasion which is the kind of composure Toronto needs.

[Indeed]

I get the desire to label Davion Mitchell as a natural Kyle successor, but he’s really lacking in the playmaking department. From a pure pit bull mentality/style standpoint I see it, but he’s not a pick and roll creator at all right now.

While that part of his game could obviously develop, it’s not in his repertoire right now. I wouldn’t be totally against him as the pick, but I’d probably go with Keon Johnson over him. Has defensive chops, crazy athleticism and more upside as a scorer. Bigger too.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

We shall see in the workout regarding the passing and shooting of Davion Mitchell.
Keon Johnson would be another option, but probably ahead of us. Keon may not project to be a 1st option.

[Dalek]

One of the draft guys I follow recently made a case for Springer, and I have to say I am slowly getting swayed by the youth and talent he has shown:

Read on Twitter

If you go a bit further and add in a parameter of players who shot 40% from three, then Springer is on a list with only James Harden. Pretty impressive for an 18 YO.

The draft guy mentioned a few other things about Springer:

Pros
- statistically dominant in a lot of weird and unique ways
- extremely young
- obviously hilariously strong and a tremendous defender already
- took on more offensive responsibility game by game, shooting should be fine

Cons
- jumps weird (also what I noticed is that he is a two-foot jumper exclusively. Can't think of other players who do that.)
- doesn't do cool dunks

I know we were throwing around the Kyle Lowry comps with Mitchell, but maybe it is more like Springer is the Lowry type of guard. I do like his positional size and instincts, but like Lowry he is a body hunter when he drives and he has the strength and form to always be consistent and straight-lined when releasing his shot.

Mitchell had a really low freethrow rate which kind of irritates me, but Baylor had 40% 3 point shooters all over the court. It might go up with the spacing in the NBA. Maybe Mitchell ends up more like a Norman Powell type who can defend and score in a few ways - although Norm seems like a better run and jump athlete.

Both Springer and Mitchell are what I would think the Raptors could work well with. Springer being the longer term project but to me look like the classic upside lottery pick. Interesting to note that his dad Gary Springer was a 6'7" star basketball player who was drafted but didn't play in the NBA due to injuries, and his cousin is Deandre Bembry. That's some decent basketball lineage.

One weird thing I picked up is the Springer is four years younger than Mitchell, so at the end of his rookie deal he will be Mitchell's age now if we draft him. That said, I think Mitchell can play tomorrow for the Raps and do well. That might be important to them.

[Spates]

Davion seems destinted to be a Raptor. The fit is just phenomenal. The Lowry comp is uncanny. Imagining a Davion, FVV, OG, Pascal suffocating perimeter defense is drool worthy.

Other teams will question his age and measurables. Ranadive who has a thing for tournament darlings will likely be picking after us. Weltmann/Hammond will probably be looking younger with higher offensive upside than Davion but with two picks they may target Davion with one of them.

The arguments against Davion are totally fair, especially about his age. But watching the final game (the only one I watched of him), I totally fell in love with his game. I'd love to root for that guy. He looked like the type of player that would be completely frustrating to score against.

The last player I felt this way about (not as a defender, but just a player I loved to watch in college and wanted to root for) was Kemba.

I totally get the age thing but Toronto always drafts kind of old other than a few exceptions like OG and Bruno. Davion is going to be the same age as FVV when he started with Toronto. Of course, there is a big difference between taking a flyer on an undrafted guy versus a lottery pick. I love guys who go all out like Davion. Maybe he is not supposed to be worth a lottery pick, but his progression over the course of two years and even month by month was crazy. Like Kemba, he rose to the occasion which is the kind of composure Toronto needs.

Yeah, I see it. Davion's blow-by ability is exciting and suited to the Raptors offense. His hustle and intensity is awesome to watch. In those highlights his pullup threes looked pure. And if that's real his speed will allow him to consistently initiate offense.

Maybe I'm off here but I get the impression that on offense Mitchell would look good with Fred.

On defense Fred could man POA and Davion's speed and reaction would make him effective at closeouts.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Both Springer and Mitchell are what I would think the Raptors could work well with. Springer being the longer term project but to me look like the classic upside lottery pick. Interesting to note that his dad Gary Springer was a 6'7" star basketball player who was drafted but didn't play in the NBA due to injuries, and his cousin is Deandre Bembry. That's some decent basketball lineage.

One weird thing I picked up is the Springer is four years younger than Mitchell, so at the end of his rookie deal he will be Mitchell's age now if we draft him. That said, I think Mitchell can play tomorrow for the Raps and do well. That might be important to them.

Personally I don't see how people that want us to take Mitchell wouldn't prefer Springer. He's already as good and has years of runway to get exponentially better. All Mitchell really has on him is a first step, but I find that's less and less important in the heavy screen and roll/transition direction the NBA is going in.

Also the scoring upside is there, 19.3 P/40. Six 20+ point games. By comparison with some other "big guards," Mitchell 17 P/40, five 20+ point games. Suggs 19.9 P/40, five 20+ point games.

I have him 7th best available after Moody.

[TorontoRapsFan]

Of all of these shooters, do any of them have a reliable fade away, turn around, or that extra hang time on their jump shot?

[Son Goku 25]

Of all of these shooters, do any of them have a reliable fade away, turn around, or that extra hang time on their jump shot?

I feel you man lol Kobe or those typical SG from the 2000s era is what I miss too.

We need a guy that can literally get a bucket whenever and initiate offense, make plays in any way.. plus not be terrible on defense. Id say Jalen Green is that guy and even Cade. Green not so much on defense though.

[Dalek]

Both Springer and Mitchell are what I would think the Raptors could work well with. Springer being the longer term project but to me look like the classic upside lottery pick. Interesting to note that his dad Gary Springer was a 6'7" star basketball player who was drafted but didn't play in the NBA due to injuries, and his cousin is Deandre Bembry. That's some decent basketball lineage.

One weird thing I picked up is the Springer is four years younger than Mitchell, so at the end of his rookie deal he will be Mitchell's age now if we draft him. That said, I think Mitchell can play tomorrow for the Raps and do well. That might be important to them.

Personally I don't see how people that want us to take Mitchell wouldn't prefer Springer. He's already as good and has years of runway to get exponentially better. All Mitchell really has on him is a first step, but I find that's less and less important in the heavy screen and roll/transition direction the NBA is going in.

Also the scoring upside is there, 19.3 P/40. Six 20+ point games. By comparison with some other "big guards," Mitchell 17 P/40, five 20+ point games. Suggs 19.9 P/40, five 20+ point games.

I have him 7th best available after Moody.

I could see Springer be big board ranked that high but I almost never see him drafted that high in the mocks.

It is weird that Springer really flies under the radar despite his more than solid numbers and profile. Partially, I think Springer was less looked at because Keon was such a spectacular athlete. Keon was the human highlight reel, but to me, Springer was much more impressive all-around. It is like Springer just suffers from bad PR unlike guys like Suggs and Mitchell who got national attention for their runs.

A couple weird Raptorsy things to note about Springer:

Jaden Springer actually shares the same birthday (Sept 25) as former Raptor and mentor to Lowry - Chauncey Billups. That is actually who I see Jaden to be quite similar to.

As mentioned before, his cousin is current Raptor DeAndre Bembry.

Toronto Blue Jays biggest acquisition this year was also a Springer. Maybe this was meant to be.