Official RJ Barrett Thread

[HumbleRen]

let him be - he is still clamoring to "being right" about the FVV/Siakam/Scottie/OG core (ignoring that being on the negative side of things in a 30-team league means you are right more than you are wrong).

ding ding ding. There is a subset of posters here that seem to think people hate their views, but in reality it mostly is just their tone and "holier than thou" schtick that really bothers people. Humble is really young (I think) so he will figure it out. I am a little less optimistic about some more.... tenured posters.

Like I said before, I responded with that energy because I’m being called a hater despite saying nothing truly disrespectful about RJ during this entire discussion.

I’ve yet to see you or Johnny respond to any of my posts with meaningful data or counter points in good faith. You just immediately jumped to calling people haters without even quoting them.

Last 2 pages have people discussing the topic in good faith with each other despite disagreements. That’s how you approach it, not with whatever you and Johnny tried to do.

Claiming people who disagree with you "Don't understand basketball" is NOT a good faith argument.

I have nothing else to add here. I like RJ, I thought he was gonna be bad when we got him, and he has so far proven me wrong. There is good reason to believe his new found efficiency could sustain (23YO, 3rd pick, major change in playstyle in TOR vs NYK), etc.

I said that in response to you guys labeling critiques as being haters when 99% of the discussion over the last 10 pages on RJ have been nothing but respectful disagreement.

I know you have nothing else to add, you haven’t contributed to any meaningful conversation during this discussion outside of fishing for fights. Maybe don’t jump into conversations with the intention of antagonizing and not adding anything to the conversation next time.

[HumbleRen]

Re 2. Why not? That's exactly what we did before. Neither RJ, IQ or Barnes have shown they are on track to be championship core pieces in their current roles. But it seems good enough to be highly competent.

Our previous core started with DeMar-Lowry-Ross-JV. DeMar was upgraded for Kawhi. Ross was upgraded for Ibaka. JV was upgraded for Gasol. Kyle was nearly flipped for Mike Conley Jr. People wasted a lot of time arguing against those players, but they won a lot of games and raised their trade value as a result. They raised the standard of what it took to be a Raptor. I think that's more valuable then synergy or fit, or whatever gets complained about.

But this is exactly what everyone who is "complaining" is saying. People aren't complaining RJ just to complain, they are complaining about specific aspects of his game that indicate the same thing as those players traded, they don't have championship calibre skill sets.

Both IQ and Scottie do. RJ currently is DD with a considerably worse mid range game. I think most everyone who watched the DD years here can unequivocally say he does not possess any championship calibre skills outside his mid range game, and the value of that in the modern NBA is debatable.

The people "complaining" are simply saying the same thing that was said about the traded players, and they were right back then. Time will tell if that is the same case here, but it's not like there isn't precedent, people used to complain about DD's limitations all the time, and they were valid complaints cause they limited the ceiling of the team. So he was traded.

Okay, I'll bite. If Demar had a championship caliber midrange game, then RJ has a championship caliber slashing game. The dude can just get to the paint and get to the line, and has to be top 10 wing in the game at that skill now. That's RJ's elite skill. You don't get to 23, 6, 4 on 55 percent from the field being a jack of all trades, master of none. He is a master at bulldozing his way to the hoop.

I get where the DD comps come from but I don’t think it’s entirely fair.

Our ceiling was dependent on DD’s ceiling. That’s not the case with RJ at all. This only becomes an issue if RJ continues to be our leading scorer and Scottie isn’t able to become the defacto scorer.

[YogurtProducer]

Like I said before, I responded with that energy because I’m being called a hater despite saying nothing truly disrespectful about RJ during this entire discussion.

I’ve yet to see you or Johnny respond to any of my posts with meaningful data or counter points in good faith. You just immediately jumped to calling people haters without even quoting them.

Last 2 pages have people discussing the topic in good faith with each other despite disagreements. That’s how you approach it, not with whatever you and Johnny tried to do.

Claiming people who disagree with you "Don't understand basketball" is NOT a good faith argument.

I have nothing else to add here. I like RJ, I thought he was gonna be bad when we got him, and he has so far proven me wrong. There is good reason to believe his new found efficiency could sustain (23YO, 3rd pick, major change in playstyle in TOR vs NYK), etc.

I said that in response to you guys labeling critiques as being haters when 99% of the discussion over the last 10 pages on RJ have been nothing but respectful disagreement.

I know you have nothing else to add, you haven’t contributed to any meaningful conversation during this discussion outside of fishing for fights. Maybe don’t jump into conversations with the intention of antagonizing and not adding anything to the conversation next time.

This entire thread with you has been: "RJ sucks at defence, is a bench player, blah blah blah". Lets not act like you were bringing some incredibly high value posts here (not saying I am either, but if you are gonna call out my contributions then I will questions yours as well).

And then some other posters give some thoughtful responses and you respond with "well you just don't understand basketball". I just came in here to say that is a bull **** thing to throw into the conversation. THEN - when you got called out you literally immediately heel flip and bring up FVV and Siakam to change the subject

Besides - as Johnny said, when your entire schtick becomes "I am negative about everything no matter what", don't be surprised when you lose the benefit of the doubt.

There is being a critic, but then there is just negativity. Besides, I don't think the ONE poster who even used the word "hate" was even referring to you. He likely was referring to the guy who is in every thread bashing everyone who is not Barnes.

[Scase]

Re 2. Why not? That's exactly what we did before. Neither RJ, IQ or Barnes have shown they are on track to be championship core pieces in their current roles. But it seems good enough to be highly competent.

Our previous core started with DeMar-Lowry-Ross-JV. DeMar was upgraded for Kawhi. Ross was upgraded for Ibaka. JV was upgraded for Gasol. Kyle was nearly flipped for Mike Conley Jr. People wasted a lot of time arguing against those players, but they won a lot of games and raised their trade value as a result. They raised the standard of what it took to be a Raptor. I think that's more valuable then synergy or fit, or whatever gets complained about.

But this is exactly what everyone who is "complaining" is saying. People aren't complaining RJ just to complain, they are complaining about specific aspects of his game that indicate the same thing as those players traded, they don't have championship calibre skill sets.

Both IQ and Scottie do. RJ currently is DD with a considerably worse mid range game. I think most everyone who watched the DD years here can unequivocally say he does not possess any championship calibre skills outside his mid range game, and the value of that in the modern NBA is debatable.

The people "complaining" are simply saying the same thing that was said about the traded players, and they were right back then. Time will tell if that is the same case here, but it's not like there isn't precedent, people used to complain about DD's limitations all the time, and they were valid complaints cause they limited the ceiling of the team. So he was traded.

Okay, I'll bite. If Demar had a championship caliber midrange game, then RJ has a championship caliber slashing game. The dude can just get to the paint and get to the line, and has to be top 10 wing in the game at that skill now. That's RJ's elite skill. You don't get to 23, 6, 4 on 55 percent from the field being a jack of all trades, master of none. He is a master at bulldozing his way to the hoop.

Eh as I mentioned DDs midrange being championship calibre is debatable. Mainly because he's never been on a true contending team, and 2, you don't see any championship teams in the last like 10-15 years that had one of their primary scorers be able to do nothing but be elite from the mid range.

As for "elite", that's a bit subjective, likely changes from person to person but, I would say 90th percentile and above is elite range. DD in the last 5ish seasons was floating at the 95th-98th percentile in mid range at his position. That's elite.

RJ at the rim for the last 4 seasons was, 19th, 24th, 15th, 24th, 17th (NYC), 84th (TOR).

His ability to draw fouls definitely can be considered elite, shooting fouls puts him in the 92nd, 73rd, 94th, 95th, 87th (NYC), 90th (TOR) percentiles.

But that's not super great when you take into account his made FT%, he was in the 5th, 29th, 18th, 21st, 74th(NYC), 4th (TOR) percentiles.

His AND 1 percentiles were 46th, 36th, 42nd, 36th, 16th (NYC), 55th (TOR). So yeah, hardly what I would call championship calibre elite.

So outside of putting some foul pressure on defences, it amounts to very little conversion.

[HumbleRen]

Claiming people who disagree with you "Don't understand basketball" is NOT a good faith argument.

I have nothing else to add here. I like RJ, I thought he was gonna be bad when we got him, and he has so far proven me wrong. There is good reason to believe his new found efficiency could sustain (23YO, 3rd pick, major change in playstyle in TOR vs NYK), etc.

I said that in response to you guys labeling critiques as being haters when 99% of the discussion over the last 10 pages on RJ have been nothing but respectful disagreement.

I know you have nothing else to add, you haven’t contributed to any meaningful conversation during this discussion outside of fishing for fights. Maybe don’t jump into conversations with the intention of antagonizing and not adding anything to the conversation next time.

This entire thread with you has been: "RJ sucks at defence, is a bench player, blah blah blah". Lets not act like you were bringing some incredibly high value posts here (not saying I am either, but if you are gonna call out my contributions then I will questions yours as well).

And then some other posters give some thoughtful responses and you respond with "well you just don't understand basketball". I just came in here to say that is a bull **** thing to throw into the conversation. THEN - when you got called out you literally immediately heel flip and bring up FVV and Siakam to change the subject

Besides - as Johnny said, when your entire schtick becomes "I am negative about everything no matter what", don't be surprised when you lose the benefit of the doubt.

There is being a critic, but then there is just negativity. Besides, I don't think the ONE poster who even used the word "hate" was even referring to you. He likely was referring to the guy who is in every thread bashing everyone who is not Barnes.

Again, you’re bringing nothing to the table right now outside of inciting more childish responses. There’s multiple civil conversations going on right now in good faith. I don’t have time for someone that throws shots but cries victim when called out on it.

[HumbleRen]

But this is exactly what everyone who is "complaining" is saying. People aren't complaining RJ just to complain, they are complaining about specific aspects of his game that indicate the same thing as those players traded, they don't have championship calibre skill sets.

Both IQ and Scottie do. RJ currently is DD with a considerably worse mid range game. I think most everyone who watched the DD years here can unequivocally say he does not possess any championship calibre skills outside his mid range game, and the value of that in the modern NBA is debatable.

The people "complaining" are simply saying the same thing that was said about the traded players, and they were right back then. Time will tell if that is the same case here, but it's not like there isn't precedent, people used to complain about DD's limitations all the time, and they were valid complaints cause they limited the ceiling of the team. So he was traded.

Okay, I'll bite. If Demar had a championship caliber midrange game, then RJ has a championship caliber slashing game. The dude can just get to the paint and get to the line, and has to be top 10 wing in the game at that skill now. That's RJ's elite skill. You don't get to 23, 6, 4 on 55 percent from the field being a jack of all trades, master of none. He is a master at bulldozing his way to the hoop.

Eh as I mentioned DDs midrange being championship calibre is debatable. Mainly because he's never been on a true contending team, and 2, you don't see any championship teams in the last like 10-15 years that had one of their primary scorers be able to do nothing but be elite from the mid range.

As for "elite", that's a bit subjective, likely changes from person to person but, I would say 90th percentile and above is elite range. DD in the last 5ish seasons was floating at the 95th-98th percentile in mid range at his position. That's elite.

RJ at the rim for the last 4 seasons was, 19th, 24th, 15th, 24th, 17th (NYC), 84th (TOR).

His ability to draw fouls definitely can be considered elite, shooting fouls puts him in the 92nd, 73rd, 94th, 95th, 87th (NYC), 90th (TOR) percentiles.

But that's not super great when you take into account his made FT%, he was in the 5th, 29th, 18th,21st,74th(NYC) 4th (TOR) percentiles.

His AND 1 percentiles were 46th,36th,42nd, 36th, 16th (NYC), 55th (TOR). So yeah, hardly what I would call championship calibre elite.

So outside of putting some foul pressure on defences, it amounts to very little conversion.

He’s definitely been an elite driver since being here IMO.

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=HbabrG88CN47J93LefZuVQ

It’s pretty impactful considering we virtually have 0 great downhill drivers outside of RJ.

[MEDIC]

But this is exactly what everyone who is "complaining" is saying. People aren't complaining RJ just to complain, they are complaining about specific aspects of his game that indicate the same thing as those players traded, they don't have championship calibre skill sets.

Both IQ and Scottie do. RJ currently is DD with a considerably worse mid range game. I think most everyone who watched the DD years here can unequivocally say he does not possess any championship calibre skills outside his mid range game, and the value of that in the modern NBA is debatable.

The people "complaining" are simply saying the same thing that was said about the traded players, and they were right back then. Time will tell if that is the same case here, but it's not like there isn't precedent, people used to complain about DD's limitations all the time, and they were valid complaints cause they limited the ceiling of the team. So he was traded.

Okay, I'll bite. If Demar had a championship caliber midrange game, then RJ has a championship caliber slashing game. The dude can just get to the paint and get to the line, and has to be top 10 wing in the game at that skill now. That's RJ's elite skill. You don't get to 23, 6, 4 on 55 percent from the field being a jack of all trades, master of none. He is a master at bulldozing his way to the hoop.

I get where the DD comps come from but I don’t think it’s entirely fair.

Our ceiling was dependent on DD’s ceiling. That’s not the case with RJ at all. This only becomes an issue if RJ continues to be our leading scorer and Scottie isn’t able to become the defacto scorer.

I actually don't see RJ as the guy that needs to get better or even the guy that might get shipped out.

Out of Barnes, IQ & Gradey, RJ is the only one with a definitive elite skills. He is already a fit & already knows how he fits within the offense. We know what he brings & how he can fit. If he can simply keep doing what he is doing & improve on them, we have a hell of a 2/3 guard. I think RJ & Jakob are the only two player in the starting lineups that have found their strengths & figured out their fit.

It's Barnes, IQ & Gradey that need to find their games. Barnes hasn't mastered anything offensively yet. IQ is a good shooter, but hasn't figured out his fit yet. Grady can shoot, but is inconsistent in his approach to the game.

I honestly see Gradey as the piece that they need to develop and trade down the road. I think they will need defense more than they will need his shooting.

Is IQ going to be the next franchise PG? Who knows. He has a long way to go. I like his game a lot, but he is nowhere near a prime Lowry & that's eventually the calibre of player that the Raps will eventually need.

The exciting thing about this group for me is that haven't even scratched the surface when it comes to chemistry & mastering Darko's schemes. Most of the growth that will come from these 3 will be simply playing together over the next year, mastering the offense & defense & improving chemistry.

The individual development will also happen, but I don’t think it's as important to team growth and team success.

[Scase]

Okay, I'll bite. If Demar had a championship caliber midrange game, then RJ has a championship caliber slashing game. The dude can just get to the paint and get to the line, and has to be top 10 wing in the game at that skill now. That's RJ's elite skill. You don't get to 23, 6, 4 on 55 percent from the field being a jack of all trades, master of none. He is a master at bulldozing his way to the hoop.

Eh as I mentioned DDs midrange being championship calibre is debatable. Mainly because he's never been on a true contending team, and 2, you don't see any championship teams in the last like 10-15 years that had one of their primary scorers be able to do nothing but be elite from the mid range.

As for "elite", that's a bit subjective, likely changes from person to person but, I would say 90th percentile and above is elite range. DD in the last 5ish seasons was floating at the 95th-98th percentile in mid range at his position. That's elite.

RJ at the rim for the last 4 seasons was, 19th, 24th, 15th, 24th, 17th (NYC), 84th (TOR).

His ability to draw fouls definitely can be considered elite, shooting fouls puts him in the 92nd, 73rd, 94th, 95th, 87th (NYC), 90th (TOR) percentiles.

But that's not super great when you take into account his made FT%, he was in the 5th, 29th, 18th,21st,74th(NYC) 4th (TOR) percentiles.

His AND 1 percentiles were 46th,36th,42nd, 36th, 16th (NYC), 55th (TOR). So yeah, hardly what I would call championship calibre elite.

So outside of putting some foul pressure on defences, it amounts to very little conversion.

He’s definitely been an elite driver since being here IMO.

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=HbabrG88CN47J93LefZuVQ

It’s pretty impactful considering we virtually have 0 great downhill drivers outside of RJ.

Ranking is dependent on what his position is considered. I'm going by cleaning the glass which has him as a forward/wing not a guard, so yeah there's definitely some wiggle room. But his driving ability is definitely not one of my complaints.

[redeye514]

RJ is the only guy on the team that can play bully ball and make something out of nothing in the low post area. He should draw some nice gravity and get our shooters open

Bully Ball FTW!!!

I can see this having more value in a playoff environment, when the game slows down.

[HumbleRen]

Okay, I'll bite. If Demar had a championship caliber midrange game, then RJ has a championship caliber slashing game. The dude can just get to the paint and get to the line, and has to be top 10 wing in the game at that skill now. That's RJ's elite skill. You don't get to 23, 6, 4 on 55 percent from the field being a jack of all trades, master of none. He is a master at bulldozing his way to the hoop.

I get where the DD comps come from but I don’t think it’s entirely fair.

Our ceiling was dependent on DD’s ceiling. That’s not the case with RJ at all. This only becomes an issue if RJ continues to be our leading scorer and Scottie isn’t able to become the defacto scorer.

I actually don't see RJ as the guy that needs to get better or even the guy that might get shipped out.

Out of Barnes, IQ & Gradey, RJ is the only one with a definitive elite skills. He is already a fit & already knows how he fits within the offense. We know what he brings & how he can fit. If he can simply keep doing what he is doing & improve on them, we have a hell of a 2/3 guard. I think RJ & Jakob are the only two player in the starting lineups that have found their strengths & figured out their fit.

It's Barnes, IQ & Gradey that need to find their games. Barnes hasn't mastered anything offensively yet. IQ is a good shooter, but hasn't figured out his fit yet. Grady can shoot, but is inconsistent in his approach to the game.

I honestly see Gradey as the piece that they need to develop and trade down the road. I think they will need defense more than they will need his shooting.

Is IQ going to be the next franchise PG? Who knows. He has a long way to go. I like his game a lot, but he is nowhere near a prime Lowry & that's eventually the calibre of player that the Raps will eventually need.

The exciting thing about this group for me is that haven't even scratched the surface when it comes to chemistry & mastering Darko's schemes. Most of the growth that will come from these 3 will be simply playing together over the next year, mastering the offense & defense & improving chemistry.

The individual development will also happen, but I don’t think it's as important to team growth and team success.

This is a wild take away lol.

They all have their roles on offence, Scottie and IQ don’t have to find who they are. They just need to be much better at their roles for this team to be a playoff regulars.

Offence isn’t the issue, the issue is that IQ is a poor on ball defender, RJ is a terrible on ball defender and Scottie is decent at it but he isn’t great enough to mask the others deficiencies on defence.

[Tha Cynic]

You were wrong at almost every single turn with the FVV, Siakam, Scottie and OG core.

I think this bodes well for me long term wise.

I'm sure you will tell yourself anything to stroke your ego and pretend you're brilliant and nobody else understands.

let him be - he is still clamoring to "being right" about the FVV/Siakam/Scottie/OG core (ignoring that being on the negative side of things in a 30-team league means you are right more than you are wrong).

...but it was just a dick thing for you to type... just since you can't read the room.

ding ding ding. There is a subset of posters here that seem to think people hate their views, but in reality it mostly is just their tone and "holier than thou" schtick that really bothers people. Humble is really young (I think) so he will figure it out. I am a little less optimistic about some more.... tenured posters.

Why does everyone assume Humble is a dude. I think there are many females posting here that everyone thinks is a dude lol.

But, I think your comment applies both ways. Regardless of whether people are unhappy with the way the Raptors have been run or are happy, both sides have had some arrogant takes when really it's all a crapshoot in the end. GM's get paid millions to fail, succeed, fail, and move on to other teams and repeat the cycle. There's also no one way to win when you don't have a top 3 player in the league.

A lot of people thought the style fit, personalities, skill level and personal accolades/salary being chased wasn't good with the last group. That had to go one way or the other. So those who guessed it wouldn't work were right. While some are probably flexing, those who deserve the humbling (pun intended) are getting a good taste of it.

[Scase]

I get where the DD comps come from but I don’t think it’s entirely fair.

Our ceiling was dependent on DD’s ceiling. That’s not the case with RJ at all. This only becomes an issue if RJ continues to be our leading scorer and Scottie isn’t able to become the defacto scorer.

I actually don't see RJ as the guy that needs to get better or even the guy that might get shipped out.

Out of Barnes, IQ & Gradey, RJ is the only one with a definitive elite skills. He is already a fit & already knows how he fits within the offense. We know what he brings & how he can fit. If he can simply keep doing what he is doing & improve on them, we have a hell of a 2/3 guard. I think RJ & Jakob are the only two player in the starting lineups that have found their strengths & figured out their fit.

It's Barnes, IQ & Gradey that need to find their games. Barnes hasn't mastered anything offensively yet. IQ is a good shooter, but hasn't figured out his fit yet. Grady can shoot, but is inconsistent in his approach to the game.

I honestly see Gradey as the piece that they need to develop and trade down the road. I think they will need defense more than they will need his shooting.

Is IQ going to be the next franchise PG? Who knows. He has a long way to go. I like his game a lot, but he is nowhere near a prime Lowry & that's eventually the calibre of player that the Raps will eventually need.

The exciting thing about this group for me is that haven't even scratched the surface when it comes to chemistry & mastering Darko's schemes. Most of the growth that will come from these 3 will be simply playing together over the next year, mastering the offense & defense & improving chemistry.

The individual development will also happen, but I don’t think it's as important to team growth and team success.

This is a wild take away lol.

They all have their roles on offence, Scottie and IQ don’t have to find who they are. They just need to be much better at their roles for this team to be a playoff regulars.

Offence isn’t the issue, the issue is that IQ is a poor on ball defender, RJ is a terrible on ball defender and Scottie is decent at it but he isn’t great enough to mask the others deficiencies on defence.

Scottie would absolutely not be on the trade block before RJ, that is a molten core of the planet level of hot take

[YogurtProducer]

I'm sure you will tell yourself anything to stroke your ego and pretend you're brilliant and nobody else understands.

let him be - he is still clamoring to "being right" about the FVV/Siakam/Scottie/OG core (ignoring that being on the negative side of things in a 30-team league means you are right more than you are wrong).

...but it was just a dick thing for you to type... just since you can't read the room.

ding ding ding. There is a subset of posters here that seem to think people hate their views, but in reality it mostly is just their tone and "holier than thou" schtick that really bothers people. Humble is really young (I think) so he will figure it out. I am a little less optimistic about some more.... tenured posters.

Why does everyone assume Humble is a dude. I think there are many females posting here that everyone thinks is a dude lol.

But, I think your comment applies both ways. Regardless of whether people are unhappy with the way the Raptors have been run or are happy, both sides have had some arrogant takes when really it's all a crapshoot in the end. GM's get paid millions to fail, succeed, fail, and move on to other teams and repeat the cycle. There's also no one way to win when you don't have a top 3 player in the league.

A lot of people thought the style fit, personalities, skill level and personal accolades/salary being chased wasn't good with the last group. That had to go one way or the other. So those who guessed it wouldn't work were right. While some are probably flexing, those who deserve the humbling (pun intended) are getting a good taste of it.

I think I am just stuck in the thought process that most people online here are dudes, IDK I guess message board + young girl as profile picture = assuming it was a guy

Could not care less though regardless.

[YogurtProducer]

I said that in response to you guys labeling critiques as being haters when 99% of the discussion over the last 10 pages on RJ have been nothing but respectful disagreement.

I know you have nothing else to add, you haven’t contributed to any meaningful conversation during this discussion outside of fishing for fights. Maybe don’t jump into conversations with the intention of antagonizing and not adding anything to the conversation next time.

This entire thread with you has been: "RJ sucks at defence, is a bench player, blah blah blah". Lets not act like you were bringing some incredibly high value posts here (not saying I am either, but if you are gonna call out my contributions then I will questions yours as well).

And then some other posters give some thoughtful responses and you respond with "well you just don't understand basketball". I just came in here to say that is a bull **** thing to throw into the conversation. THEN - when you got called out you literally immediately heel flip and bring up FVV and Siakam to change the subject

Besides - as Johnny said, when your entire schtick becomes "I am negative about everything no matter what", don't be surprised when you lose the benefit of the doubt.

There is being a critic, but then there is just negativity. Besides, I don't think the ONE poster who even used the word "hate" was even referring to you. He likely was referring to the guy who is in every thread bashing everyone who is not Barnes.

Again, you’re bringing nothing to the table right now outside of inciting more childish responses. There’s multiple civil conversations going on right now in good faith. I don’t have time for someone that throws shots but cries victim when called out on it.

Last response - but it is wild that you get called out for trying to deflect by saying "you don't understand basketball" and you mange to SOMEHOW try and turn this onto other people.

The "childish" responses started with that ^ comment. The civil conversations ended when YOU accused others of not knowing things because they "don't understand basketball". (edit: and I will add to this, you calling people who defend RJ as "sensitive".)

The irony of you saying I am the one who "throws shots but cries victim when called out on it" is incredible. Just a complete lack of self-reflection.

But anyways - back to RJ.

[YogurtProducer]

RJ is the only guy on the team that can play bully ball and make something out of nothing in the low post area. He should draw some nice gravity and get our shooters open

Bully Ball FTW!!!

I can see this having more value in a playoff environment, when the game slows down.

Worth noting RJs last playoff appearance he put up

19/5/3 on 55TS%

and was a big reason why NYK won the first round and took two off MIA. While Randle stunk it up, RJ performed quite well as a #3 in those series' and I think here if he is relegated to a #3/4 role as an opportunist scorer we will see more performances like that.

[Corson27]

Agreed. RJ is a great #3 guy, imperfect as a #2 guy and out of place as a #1 scoring option.

[PoundTown]

I get where the DD comps come from but I don’t think it’s entirely fair.

Our ceiling was dependent on DD’s ceiling. That’s not the case with RJ at all. This only becomes an issue if RJ continues to be our leading scorer and Scottie isn’t able to become the defacto scorer.

I actually don't see RJ as the guy that needs to get better or even the guy that might get shipped out.

Out of Barnes, IQ & Gradey, RJ is the only one with a definitive elite skills. He is already a fit & already knows how he fits within the offense. We know what he brings & how he can fit. If he can simply keep doing what he is doing & improve on them, we have a hell of a 2/3 guard. I think RJ & Jakob are the only two player in the starting lineups that have found their strengths & figured out their fit.

It's Barnes, IQ & Gradey that need to find their games. Barnes hasn't mastered anything offensively yet. IQ is a good shooter, but hasn't figured out his fit yet. Grady can shoot, but is inconsistent in his approach to the game.

I honestly see Gradey as the piece that they need to develop and trade down the road. I think they will need defense more than they will need his shooting.

Is IQ going to be the next franchise PG? Who knows. He has a long way to go. I like his game a lot, but he is nowhere near a prime Lowry & that's eventually the calibre of player that the Raps will eventually need.

The exciting thing about this group for me is that haven't even scratched the surface when it comes to chemistry & mastering Darko's schemes. Most of the growth that will come from these 3 will be simply playing together over the next year, mastering the offense & defense & improving chemistry.

The individual development will also happen, but I don’t think it's as important to team growth and team success.

This is a wild take away lol.

They all have their roles on offence, Scottie and IQ don’t have to find who they are. They just need to be much better at their roles for this team to be a playoff regulars.

Offence isn’t the issue, the issue is that IQ is a poor on ball defender, RJ is a terrible on ball defender and Scottie is decent at it but he isn’t great enough to mask the others deficiencies on defence.

IQ is a slightly below average defender(most points can't stay in front of other points with current rules/ refereeing), RJ is an average defender whom with his workload should be asked to take the lesser of the two wing matchups, and Scottie is an above average defender who is much better suited as an elite team defender/ roamer than he is as your point of attack/ lockdown guy. This team is missing their OG. An athletic 3 and D guy. The complaints about RJ's Defence being terrible are so so overblown. He's not Demar in that regard, but he has been miscast as a lead wing defender with NYK. IQ needs some work.

I do agree with you in regards to Grady being guy we need to develop and then ship out, especially if Walter can be something close to a Hardaway Jr with solid to above average defense off the bench. Finding an athletic big wing that can knock down corner 3's but also help us rebounding and length wise in small ball lineups, say like a Jonathan Isaac does, would be a great fit with this team. I mean, if we had that with either of Walter or Dick as instant offence off the bench, we'd be doing really well.

[HumbleRen]

I actually don't see RJ as the guy that needs to get better or even the guy that might get shipped out.

Out of Barnes, IQ & Gradey, RJ is the only one with a definitive elite skills. He is already a fit & already knows how he fits within the offense. We know what he brings & how he can fit. If he can simply keep doing what he is doing & improve on them, we have a hell of a 2/3 guard. I think RJ & Jakob are the only two player in the starting lineups that have found their strengths & figured out their fit.

It's Barnes, IQ & Gradey that need to find their games. Barnes hasn't mastered anything offensively yet. IQ is a good shooter, but hasn't figured out his fit yet. Grady can shoot, but is inconsistent in his approach to the game.

I honestly see Gradey as the piece that they need to develop and trade down the road. I think they will need defense more than they will need his shooting.

Is IQ going to be the next franchise PG? Who knows. He has a long way to go. I like his game a lot, but he is nowhere near a prime Lowry & that's eventually the calibre of player that the Raps will eventually need.

The exciting thing about this group for me is that haven't even scratched the surface when it comes to chemistry & mastering Darko's schemes. Most of the growth that will come from these 3 will be simply playing together over the next year, mastering the offense & defense & improving chemistry.

The individual development will also happen, but I don’t think it's as important to team growth and team success.

This is a wild take away lol.

They all have their roles on offence, Scottie and IQ don’t have to find who they are. They just need to be much better at their roles for this team to be a playoff regulars.

Offence isn’t the issue, the issue is that IQ is a poor on ball defender, RJ is a terrible on ball defender and Scottie is decent at it but he isn’t great enough to mask the others deficiencies on defence.

IQ is a slightly below average defender(most points can't stay in front of other points with current rules/ refereeing), RJ is an average defender whom with his workload should be asked to take the lesser of the two wing matchups, and Scottie is an above average defender who is much better suited as an elite team defender/ roamer than he is as your point of attack/ lockdown guy. This team is missing their OG. An athletic 3 and D guy. The complaints about RJ's Defence being terrible are so so overblown. He's not Demar in that regard, but he has been miscast as a lead wing defender with NYK. IQ needs some work.

I do agree with you in regards to Grady being guy we need to develop and then ship out, especially if Walter can be something close to a Hardaway Jr with solid to above average defense off the bench. Finding an athletic big wing that can knock down corner 3's but also help us rebounding and length wise in small ball lineups, say like a Jonathan Isaac does, would be a great fit with this team. I mean, if we had that with either of Walter or Dick as instant offence off the bench, we'd be doing really well.

RJ isn’t an average defender, he’s very bad on the ball. He’s neutral at best overall. If he was an average defender, we wouldn’t put Scottie away from what he does best on defence to being on ball.

For the core to work long term, RJ and IQ 100% have to be slightly above average defenders because we cannot rely on finding a great 3&D player. Odds of that happening aren’t too great.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

I'm sure you will tell yourself anything to stroke your ego and pretend you're brilliant and nobody else understands.

let him be - he is still clamoring to "being right" about the FVV/Siakam/Scottie/OG core (ignoring that being on the negative side of things in a 30-team league means you are right more than you are wrong).

...but it was just a dick thing for you to type... just since you can't read the room.

ding ding ding. There is a subset of posters here that seem to think people hate their views, but in reality it mostly is just their tone and "holier than thou" schtick that really bothers people. Humble is really young (I think) so he will figure it out. I am a little less optimistic about some more.... tenured posters.

Why does everyone assume Humble is a dude. I think there are many females posting here that everyone thinks is a dude lol.

But, I think your comment applies both ways. Regardless of whether people are unhappy with the way the Raptors have been run or are happy, both sides have had some arrogant takes when really it's all a crapshoot in the end. GM's get paid millions to fail, succeed, fail, and move on to other teams and repeat the cycle. There's also no one way to win when you don't have a top 3 player in the league.

A lot of people thought the style fit, personalities, skill level and personal accolades/salary being chased wasn't good with the last group. That had to go one way or the other. So those who guessed it wouldn't work were right. While some are probably flexing, those who deserve the humbling (pun intended) are getting a good taste of it.

I've always assumed Humble is a Thai Ladyboy having an intimate relationship with DelAbbot but that's just me.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

This is a wild take away lol.

They all have their roles on offence, Scottie and IQ don’t have to find who they are. They just need to be much better at their roles for this team to be a playoff regulars.

Offence isn’t the issue, the issue is that IQ is a poor on ball defender, RJ is a terrible on ball defender and Scottie is decent at it but he isn’t great enough to mask the others deficiencies on defence.

IQ is a slightly below average defender(most points can't stay in front of other points with current rules/ refereeing), RJ is an average defender whom with his workload should be asked to take the lesser of the two wing matchups, and Scottie is an above average defender who is much better suited as an elite team defender/ roamer than he is as your point of attack/ lockdown guy. This team is missing their OG. An athletic 3 and D guy. The complaints about RJ's Defence being terrible are so so overblown. He's not Demar in that regard, but he has been miscast as a lead wing defender with NYK. IQ needs some work.

I do agree with you in regards to Grady being guy we need to develop and then ship out, especially if Walter can be something close to a Hardaway Jr with solid to above average defense off the bench. Finding an athletic big wing that can knock down corner 3's but also help us rebounding and length wise in small ball lineups, say like a Jonathan Isaac does, would be a great fit with this team. I mean, if we had that with either of Walter or Dick as instant offence off the bench, we'd be doing really well.

RJ isn’t an average defender, he’s very bad on the ball. He’s neutral at best overall. If he was an average defender, we wouldn’t put Scottie away from what he does best on defence to being on ball.

For the core to work long term, RJ and IQ 100% have to be slightly above average defenders because we cannot rely on finding a great 3&D player. Odds of that happening aren’t too great.

So we can get a clearer picture I'm going to ask one of the best advanced analytics experts I know about RJ and report back if I can get a response soon. It's widely acknowledged defense is much more difficult to get a complete picture of over offense but maybe he can pinpoint some things which provide very clear insight.