The Official Cunningham vs Suggs Thread #Tank4Either

[ItsDanger]

Franz Wagner is so skilled and long. Just no weaknesses that I can see. Really outplayed Barnes on both sides. I think he is high lottery, definitely top ten.

He's like Battier. Won't be a superstar but should be an elite glue guy.

Barnes I guess can run a bench unit but he just plays so small out there. It's like he only uses his height to pass over people.

I do see Wagner as being a high-end glue guy type just like you do. I see a lot of Detlef Schrempf in him. The wirey frame, heady play and scoring instincts. Also Schrempf is German like Wagner.

Wagner is still pretty young. There is some chance he could be the next Gordon Hayward if he can add to his frame and stays healthy. That's not a bad outcome at 10ish range.

I don't really see anything special with Barnes to put him higher than Wagner. Can't shoot, and I don't think he is a better defender than Wagner. Barnes and the supposed gifted playmaking doesn't add up to me. He has a really high dribble which will get eaten alive in the NBA.

My top 15 looks like currently:

1. Mobley - Once in a generation unicorn
2. Cade - Elite leader and jumbo creator
3. Green - Special athlete with creativity off the bouncer
4. Suggs - Elite leader with great burst; has to play a smaller role on a stacked Gonzaga team
5. Kuminga - Siakam type of two-way threat
6. Bouknight - Devin Booker type scorer
7. Jalen Johnson - prototypical NBA wing or small ball four
8. Kai Jones - elite athlete and fluidity for his size; Myles Turner project
9. Wagner - A well-rounded long player that fit the modern NBA
10. Moody - Strong two-way player, very safe pick that should be NBA ready

11. Zaire Williams - 6'8" SG with his skills are hard to pass up - he is a project.
12. Josh Giddey - very young jumbo creator who has far exceeded even Lamelo Ball's numbers in Australia
13. Keon Johnson - elite athlete like Myles Bridges
14. Springer - Could end up one of the best PGs in the class
15. Kispert - Elite shooter

Pretty good ranking. I would make some adjustments but can't argue too much. I don't see above average shot creation with Moody. Jones just didn't impress me. Agree with Jalen though, I like his potential. It would be a risk taking Bouknight that high.

[DG88]

Watch on YouTube

[Indeed]

Franz Wagner is so skilled and long. Just no weaknesses that I can see. Really outplayed Barnes on both sides. I think he is high lottery, definitely top ten.

He's like Battier. Won't be a superstar but should be an elite glue guy.

Barnes I guess can run a bench unit but he just plays so small out there. It's like he only uses his height to pass over people.

I do see Wagner as being a high-end glue guy type just like you do. I see a lot of Detlef Schrempf in him. The wirey frame, heady play and scoring instincts. Also Schrempf is German like Wagner.

Wagner is still pretty young. There is some chance he could be the next Gordon Hayward if he can add to his frame and stays healthy. That's not a bad outcome at 10ish range.

I don't really see anything special with Barnes to put him higher than Wagner. Can't shoot, and I don't think he is a better defender than Wagner. Barnes and the supposed gifted playmaking doesn't add up to me. He has a really high dribble which will get eaten alive in the NBA.

My top 15 looks like currently:

1. Mobley - Once in a generation unicorn
2. Cade - Elite leader and jumbo creator
3. Green - Special athlete with creativity off the bouncer
4. Suggs - Elite leader with great burst; has to play a smaller role on a stacked Gonzaga team
5. Kuminga - Siakam type of two-way threat
6. Bouknight - Devin Booker type scorer
7. Jalen Johnson - prototypical NBA wing or small ball four
8. Kai Jones - elite athlete and fluidity for his size; Myles Turner project
9. Wagner - A well-rounded long player that fit the modern NBA
10. Moody - Strong two-way player, very safe pick that should be NBA ready

11. Zaire Williams - 6'8" SG with his skills are hard to pass up - he is a project.
12. Josh Giddey - very young jumbo creator who has far exceeded even Lamelo Ball's numbers in Australia
13. Keon Johnson - elite athlete like Myles Bridges
14. Springer - Could end up one of the best PGs in the class
15. Kispert - Elite shooter

Wagner comparison would be Dunleavy. His help defense from a wing is good, but individual defense may need help. He can't get through screens. A bit of a tweener between SF and PF.

It is possible we take Kai Jones or Isaiah Jackson. Kai Jones is like a bigger Boucher, while Isaiah Jackson is like a taller Faried. Both need 2 years to be able to stay on the floor. I believe Davion Mitchell is raising as well, and if Bayor beats Gonzaga, very likely he will raise his stock before draft combine shuffle a bit, may end up near the lottery (his age maybe a concern to teams).

[Syd-TK3]

I definitely think Bouknight could end up being the Mitchell/booker/herro of this draft especially if picked outside the top 10

[Indeed]

Pretty good ranking. I would make some adjustments but can't argue too much. I don't see above average shot creation with Moody. Jones just didn't impress me. Agree with Jalen though, I like his potential. It would be a risk taking Bouknight that high.

And Moody seems to be below shot creation. He plays like a PF (or Siakam) on offense, while being 6'6. I don't think his offense will translate. I have Keon Johnson above him.

Meanwhile, it is hard to distinguish between Jalen or Johnson. There are 3 Jalen in the top 10, and 2 Johnson in the top 10.

[Psubs]

He has different gears. When driving or in the post, seems methodical like Duncan (with less of a finishing move assortment) but when he's going to dunk he's got such fast-twitch hops! Looks weird but effective.

I guess the numbers back up the observation with 3 blocks per game and only 1.8 fouls in 34 mpg.

that dunk yesterday, I really thought he was going to get blocked but dude took it to the next gear he got close to the basket. that twitch hops are for real.

Watch on YouTube

Smashed through his fingers! Fundamental 2 hands strong and quick to the hoop! He knows he's lanky enough to finish with 2 hands!

[WuTang_CMB]

I know Masai and Co. are really good at drafting post 15 but fk man would be nice to get into top 3 and take one of these stars.

[HeadtopChunes]

that dunk yesterday, I really thought he was going to get blocked but dude took it to the next gear he got close to the basket. that twitch hops are for real.

Watch on YouTube

Smashed through his fingers! Fundamental 2 hands strong and quick to the hoop! He knows he's lanky enough to finish with 2 hands!

Mobley dunks like a 70s big lol

[Dalek]

He's like Battier. Won't be a superstar but should be an elite glue guy.

Barnes I guess can run a bench unit but he just plays so small out there. It's like he only uses his height to pass over people.

I do see Wagner as being a high-end glue guy type just like you do. I see a lot of Detlef Schrempf in him. The wirey frame, heady play and scoring instincts. Also Schrempf is German like Wagner.

Wagner is still pretty young. There is some chance he could be the next Gordon Hayward if he can add to his frame and stays healthy. That's not a bad outcome at 10ish range.

I don't really see anything special with Barnes to put him higher than Wagner. Can't shoot, and I don't think he is a better defender than Wagner. Barnes and the supposed gifted playmaking doesn't add up to me. He has a really high dribble which will get eaten alive in the NBA.

My top 15 looks like currently:

1. Mobley - Once in a generation unicorn
2. Cade - Elite leader and jumbo creator
3. Green - Special athlete with creativity off the bouncer
4. Suggs - Elite leader with great burst; has to play a smaller role on a stacked Gonzaga team
5. Kuminga - Siakam type of two-way threat
6. Bouknight - Devin Booker type scorer
7. Jalen Johnson - prototypical NBA wing or small ball four
8. Kai Jones - elite athlete and fluidity for his size; Myles Turner project
9. Wagner - A well-rounded long player that fit the modern NBA
10. Moody - Strong two-way player, very safe pick that should be NBA ready

11. Zaire Williams - 6'8" SG with his skills are hard to pass up - he is a project.
12. Josh Giddey - very young jumbo creator who has far exceeded even Lamelo Ball's numbers in Australia
13. Keon Johnson - elite athlete like Myles Bridges
14. Springer - Could end up one of the best PGs in the class
15. Kispert - Elite shooter

Pretty good ranking. I would make some adjustments but can't argue too much. I don't see above average shot creation with Moody. Jones just didn't impress me. Agree with Jalen though, I like his potential. It would be a risk taking Bouknight that high.

I just love the bounce and shake to Bouknight's game. He isn't on the same tier as Jalen Green as an athlete, but he is pretty damn close:

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

?s=20

To me, he is the guy people will regret passing on if he drops. Some guys just have the 'it' factor and Bouknight given his shot creation skill, athleticism, 6'8" wingspan and clutch shooting seems like a no-brainer pick to me. The guys with question makrs come after.

I agree that Moody doesn't look like a guy that will be above average as a shot creator, but to me he reminds me of Kris Middleton coming in. Good size, nice solid 3 and D role player coming in that just knows where to be on the court and can play in system. He is still young and can develop like Middleton did over a couple years. I rank him high because he has a competitive nasty streak to his game.

Kai Jones is fairly hard to read. He isn't nearly NBA ready, but to me he is a freak athlete. Guys at 6'11" shouldn't be able to do this:

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Read on Twitter

?s=20

[DreamTeam09]

I do see Wagner as being a high-end glue guy type just like you do. I see a lot of Detlef Schrempf in him. The wirey frame, heady play and scoring instincts. Also Schrempf is German like Wagner.

Wagner is still pretty young. There is some chance he could be the next Gordon Hayward if he can add to his frame and stays healthy. That's not a bad outcome at 10ish range.

I don't really see anything special with Barnes to put him higher than Wagner. Can't shoot, and I don't think he is a better defender than Wagner. Barnes and the supposed gifted playmaking doesn't add up to me. He has a really high dribble which will get eaten alive in the NBA.

My top 15 looks like currently:

1. Mobley - Once in a generation unicorn
2. Cade - Elite leader and jumbo creator
3. Green - Special athlete with creativity off the bouncer
4. Suggs - Elite leader with great burst; has to play a smaller role on a stacked Gonzaga team
5. Kuminga - Siakam type of two-way threat
6. Bouknight - Devin Booker type scorer
7. Jalen Johnson - prototypical NBA wing or small ball four
8. Kai Jones - elite athlete and fluidity for his size; Myles Turner project
9. Wagner - A well-rounded long player that fit the modern NBA
10. Moody - Strong two-way player, very safe pick that should be NBA ready

11. Zaire Williams - 6'8" SG with his skills are hard to pass up - he is a project.
12. Josh Giddey - very young jumbo creator who has far exceeded even Lamelo Ball's numbers in Australia
13. Keon Johnson - elite athlete like Myles Bridges
14. Springer - Could end up one of the best PGs in the class
15. Kispert - Elite shooter

Pretty good ranking. I would make some adjustments but can't argue too much. I don't see above average shot creation with Moody. Jones just didn't impress me. Agree with Jalen though, I like his potential. It would be a risk taking Bouknight that high.

I just love the bounce and shake to Bouknight's game. He isn't on the same tier as Jalen Green as an athlete, but he is pretty damn close:

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

?s=20

To me, he is the guy people will regret passing on if he drops. Some guys just have the 'it' factor and Bouknight given his shot creation skill, athleticism, 6'8" wingspan and clutch shooting seems like a no-brainer pick to me. The guys with question makrs come after.

I agree that Moody doesn't look like a guy that will be above average as a shot creator, but to me he reminds me of Kris Middleton coming in. Good size, nice solid 3 and D role player coming in that just knows where to be on the court and can play in system. He is still young and can develop like Middleton did over a couple years. I rank him high because he has a competitive nasty streak to his game.

Kai Jones is fairly hard to read. He isn't nearly NBA ready, but to me he is a freak athlete. Guys at 6'11" shouldn't be able to do this:

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Raps have to do everything possible to get Kai Jones if we aren't in the top 5. He immediately changes the outlook on things for us going fwd. I haven't kept out with this draft outside of the top 5, but Kai is one of the players I want

[Jadoogar]

I don't watch college at all. Can some explain why people are rating Mobley over Cunningham?
All the mocks i've read have Cunningham #1 and in today's league, wings are just more valuable than centers.

[Bruin]

Haven’t watched much of Moody yet but from what I’ve seen he kinda reminds me of a young Beal. Anyone have more of a report on him?

[Bruin]

I don't watch college at all. Can some explain why people are rating Mobley over Cunningham?
All the mocks i've read have Cunningham #1 and in today's league, wings are just more valuable than centers.

Some people are concerned with Cade being too slow and Mobley looks like a unicorn in the mold of AD. I personally still have Cade #1 cause I think he’ll manage fine without being a freak athlete given he raw talent, size, and IQ

[Dalek]

He's like Battier. Won't be a superstar but should be an elite glue guy.

Barnes I guess can run a bench unit but he just plays so small out there. It's like he only uses his height to pass over people.

I do see Wagner as being a high-end glue guy type just like you do. I see a lot of Detlef Schrempf in him. The wirey frame, heady play and scoring instincts. Also Schrempf is German like Wagner.

Wagner is still pretty young. There is some chance he could be the next Gordon Hayward if he can add to his frame and stays healthy. That's not a bad outcome at 10ish range.

I don't really see anything special with Barnes to put him higher than Wagner. Can't shoot, and I don't think he is a better defender than Wagner. Barnes and the supposed gifted playmaking doesn't add up to me. He has a really high dribble which will get eaten alive in the NBA.

My top 15 looks like currently:

1. Mobley - Once in a generation unicorn
2. Cade - Elite leader and jumbo creator
3. Green - Special athlete with creativity off the bouncer
4. Suggs - Elite leader with great burst; has to play a smaller role on a stacked Gonzaga team
5. Kuminga - Siakam type of two-way threat
6. Bouknight - Devin Booker type scorer
7. Jalen Johnson - prototypical NBA wing or small ball four
8. Kai Jones - elite athlete and fluidity for his size; Myles Turner project
9. Wagner - A well-rounded long player that fit the modern NBA
10. Moody - Strong two-way player, very safe pick that should be NBA ready

11. Zaire Williams - 6'8" SG with his skills are hard to pass up - he is a project.
12. Josh Giddey - very young jumbo creator who has far exceeded even Lamelo Ball's numbers in Australia
13. Keon Johnson - elite athlete like Myles Bridges
14. Springer - Could end up one of the best PGs in the class
15. Kispert - Elite shooter

Wagner comparison would be Dunleavy. His help defense from a wing is good, but individual defense may need help. He can't get through screens. A bit of a tweener between SF and PF.

It is possible we take Kai Jones or Isaiah Jackson. Kai Jones is like a bigger Boucher, while Isaiah Jackson is like a taller Faried. Both need 2 years to be able to stay on the floor. I believe Davion Mitchell is raising as well, and if Bayor beats Gonzaga, very likely he will raise his stock before draft combine shuffle a bit, may end up near the lottery (his age maybe a concern to teams).

I am a big Isaiah Jackson fan as well, but he is slightly below that of Usman Garuba. It was really hard not to put the best defensive player in the top 15, but watching the NBA this year, it seems like the biggest NBA focus is on versatility on offense not having elite defense. Guys like Garuba, Jackson and Day’Ron Sharpe are all in that 15-20 range to me.

Garuba is the highest because there isn't a more versatile defender and he can finish and pass decently on offense. He is the image of Bam Adebayo. Regarding bigs, Toronto has two 40s picks and I think drafting bigs in that range make more sense. Focus on BPA first then go with size in the second round. Guys like Todd, Bassey, Queta, Hukporti, Cockburn, Petrusev, Garza are all in that range.

[Fairview4Life]

I don't watch college at all. Can some explain why people are rating Mobley over Cunningham?
All the mocks i've read have Cunningham #1 and in today's league, wings are just more valuable than centers.

Mobley looks like a taller and more fluid Chris Bosh.

[BoyzNTheHood]

Haven’t watched much of Moody yet but from what I’ve seen he kinda reminds me of a young Beal. Anyone have more of a report on him?

I could be wrong, but I don't understand his appeal. Every time I watch him it's underwhelming, but his stats are fairly good so maybe it's just me.

[DG88]

I do see Wagner as being a high-end glue guy type just like you do. I see a lot of Detlef Schrempf in him. The wirey frame, heady play and scoring instincts. Also Schrempf is German like Wagner.

Wagner is still pretty young. There is some chance he could be the next Gordon Hayward if he can add to his frame and stays healthy. That's not a bad outcome at 10ish range.

I don't really see anything special with Barnes to put him higher than Wagner. Can't shoot, and I don't think he is a better defender than Wagner. Barnes and the supposed gifted playmaking doesn't add up to me. He has a really high dribble which will get eaten alive in the NBA.

My top 15 looks like currently:

1. Mobley - Once in a generation unicorn
2. Cade - Elite leader and jumbo creator
3. Green - Special athlete with creativity off the bouncer
4. Suggs - Elite leader with great burst; has to play a smaller role on a stacked Gonzaga team
5. Kuminga - Siakam type of two-way threat
6. Bouknight - Devin Booker type scorer
7. Jalen Johnson - prototypical NBA wing or small ball four
8. Kai Jones - elite athlete and fluidity for his size; Myles Turner project
9. Wagner - A well-rounded long player that fit the modern NBA
10. Moody - Strong two-way player, very safe pick that should be NBA ready

11. Zaire Williams - 6'8" SG with his skills are hard to pass up - he is a project.
12. Josh Giddey - very young jumbo creator who has far exceeded even Lamelo Ball's numbers in Australia
13. Keon Johnson - elite athlete like Myles Bridges
14. Springer - Could end up one of the best PGs in the class
15. Kispert - Elite shooter

Pretty good ranking. I would make some adjustments but can't argue too much. I don't see above average shot creation with Moody. Jones just didn't impress me. Agree with Jalen though, I like his potential. It would be a risk taking Bouknight that high.

I just love the bounce and shake to Bouknight's game. He isn't on the same tier as Jalen Green as an athlete, but he is pretty damn close:

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

?s=20

To me, he is the guy people will regret passing on if he drops. Some guys just have the 'it' factor and Bouknight given his shot creation skill, athleticism, 6'8" wingspan and clutch shooting seems like a no-brainer pick to me. The guys with question makrs come after.

I agree that Moody doesn't look like a guy that will be above average as a shot creator, but to me he reminds me of Kris Middleton coming in. Good size, nice solid 3 and D role player coming in that just knows where to be on the court and can play in system. He is still young and can develop like Middleton did over a couple years. I rank him high because he has a competitive nasty streak to his game.

Kai Jones is fairly hard to read. He isn't nearly NBA ready, but to me he is a freak athlete. Guys at 6'11" shouldn't be able to do this:

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Read on Twitter

?s=20

If we stay at our current spot Bouknight is the guy I like as a go to scorer. Dude is just smooth and is a 3 level scorer, something we desperately need.

[BoyzNTheHood]

Queta or Bassey in the 2nd round please!!

Read on Twitter

[Dalek]

I don't watch college at all. Can some explain why people are rating Mobley over Cunningham?
All the mocks i've read have Cunningham #1 and in today's league, wings are just more valuable than centers.

His tournament performance has propelled him ahead of Cade. It shows how Mobley can take a mediocre team like USC to the Elite 8. Cade could not accomplish the same and is not an explosive athlete, while Mobley looks like the closest thing to Anthony Davis. I think he is probably not AD but the next KAT.

I agree that jumbo creators like Cade should probably be number 1, but Mobley has really asserted himself as the number 1 pick this month. Hard to argue with his results.

[HeadtopChunes]

i am not a Bouknight guy, looks pretty one dimensional to me, for a guy cast as a scorer he gets bothered a lot by basic contests on his jumper, pass