Tank World Order (The Remix Vol. IV)

[Scase]

You try to secure a top 6 pick this season and then try to improve the team over the off-season, hope the rest of the guys take the next step, and make a push for the playoffs next season.

Masai that you?

https://raptorsrapture.com/posts/regrade-trade-raptors-cripple-their-future-investing-towering-center

It was painfully obvious to everyone but Masai Ujiri and the most ardent Raptors fans that trading for Poeltl was a mistake; it would have been a mistake if they had simply added him for free and then signed him to the contract that they did. Poeltl is a very good, but not elite rim protector, and his ability to defend in space lags behind most of his elite defensive peers. On offense he is a good screen-setter and roll man, but he flubs a lot of finishes around the rim if he can't dunk and doesn't provide any level of spacing.

The type of player is fine in the right role, but he isn't elevating the defense on his own and is probably hurting the offense unless he is operating in a well-spaced environment.

[And1Skip]

The last 14 is the stretch run. For any tanking team (and by tanking, I mean team not good enough to win games, even when trying), we normally don't see many wins at all. So yeah, 2-12 is not a stretch out of the imagination.

Lets analyze the history of Raptors tanking years over the last 14 games (only difference for us this year is that we didn't have to worry about conveying that pick due to a stupid trade):

2021 Tampa Tank - 4-10 over the last 14. 1-9 in the last 10. Result: 7th seed, #4 pick = Scottie

2012 Ben Uzuh Disaster = 6-8 over the last 14 (WTF) . 3-7 in last 10. Result: tied for 7th seed, loss coin toss, 8th pick= TRoss

2011 Triano WTF going to do - 4-10 over last 14. 2-8 in last 10. Result: 3rd seed, but 5th pick=JV ("a bouncing 5!!")

2006 BC the Savior - 2-12 over last 14. 1-9 in last 10. Result: 3rd seed, win lottery for #1 pick= Bustiani

2005 VC Trade - 5-9 over last 14. 4-6 in last 10. Result: Tied for 7th seed, 7th pick= Charlie V

2004 KO Meltdown - 4-10 over last 14. 3-7 in last 10. Result: Tied for 7th seed, 8th pick= Hoffa (Rob Babcock's first pick)

2003 Tank for Lebron/Melo/Darko - 3-11 over last 14. 2-8 in last 10 (out-tanked Miami due to Vlaidimir Stepania). Result: 3rd seed, 4th pick=CB4

1998 Boo GG last game at MLG - 1-13 over last 14. 1-9 in last 10. Result: 2nd seed, 4th pick= (trade for 5th pick)=VC

1997 2nd year Uprising - 5-9 over last 14. 5-5 in last 10. Result: Tied for 8th seed, 9th pick= TMac

1996 Inaugural season - 3-11 over last 14. 3-7 in last 10. Result: 3rd seed. win lottery but stupid expansion rule, 2nd pick=Camby

[DelAbbot]

where is the tanking don't work crowd these days? Just look at that list of players compiled by And1Skip, which we tanked for.

[Duffman100]

where is the tanking don't work crowd these days? Just look at that list of players compiled by And1Skip, which we tanked for.

There's a lot of whiffs in that list.

Also... what did we win with those players? Not much...

[Tofubeque]

There are 14 games remaining and they'll likely go 2-12.

I don't even know why anyone thinks we're going to win any more games.

We face Washington twice and there is a slim chance the last game against Miami means nothing to them, at which point they will trot out a lineup just as bad.

Hopefully the Raptors can steal one of those losses against Washington, who will already have a bottom 3 record secured. Few teams have as much incentive as the Raptors to tank every game at this point, since their pick is all or nothing.

[DelAbbot]

You try to secure a top 6 pick this season and then try to improve the team over the off-season, hope the rest of the guys take the next step, and make a push for the playoffs next season.

Masai that you?

https://raptorsrapture.com/posts/regrade-trade-raptors-cripple-their-future-investing-towering-center

It was painfully obvious to everyone but Masai Ujiri and the most ardent Raptors fans that trading for Poeltl was a mistake; it would have been a mistake if they had simply added him for free and then signed him to the contract that they did. Poeltl is a very good, but not elite rim protector, and his ability to defend in space lags behind most of his elite defensive peers. On offense he is a good screen-setter and roll man, but he flubs a lot of finishes around the rim if he can't dunk and doesn't provide any level of spacing.

The type of player is fine in the right role, but he isn't elevating the defense on his own and is probably hurting the offense unless he is operating in a well-spaced environment.

Only Masai could think of adding to the team this summer to go for play-in next season. Baked mediocrity and tank will roll over Masai's round behind

We need to tank again hard next season

[MiamiSPX]

I don't even know why anyone thinks we're going to win any more games.

We face Washington twice and there is a slim chance the last game against Miami means nothing to them, at which point they will trot out a lineup just as bad.

Hopefully the Raptors can steal one of those losses against Washington, who will already have a bottom 3 record secured. Few teams have as much incentive as the Raptors to tank every game at this point, since their pick is all or nothing.

I'd be fine with losing all 14 remaining games. There is no culture to worry about, given that half the guys playing these games won't be with us next season, or at least won't be a meaningful part of the team.

[DelAbbot]

where is the tanking don't work crowd these days? Just look at that list of players compiled by And1Skip, which we tanked for.

There's a lot of whiffs in that list.

Also... what did we win with those players? Not much...

yeah we sure did win a championship without having to tank for DD and JV

[Duffman100]

where is the tanking don't work crowd these days? Just look at that list of players compiled by And1Skip, which we tanked for.

There's a lot of whiffs in that list.

Also... what did we win with those players? Not much...

yeah we sure did win a championship without having to tank for DD and JV

So 9th overall pick is tanking now? What isn't tanking?

[Duffman100]

I guess we tanked for Gradey Dick last year.

[Fairview4Life]

There's a lot of whiffs in that list.

Also... what did we win with those players? Not much...

yeah we sure did win a championship without having to tank for DD and JV

So 9th overall pick is tanking now? What isn't tanking?

There are 10 years in that list and the ones that matter are the 5th and 9th picks? Losing makes people insane.

[And1Skip]

There's a lot of whiffs in that list.

Also... what did we win with those players? Not much...

yeah we sure did win a championship without having to tank for DD and JV

So 9th overall pick is tanking now? What isn't tanking?

I did not consider the year DeMar was drafted tanking because BC publicly thought he had a 50-win team with Jermaine Oneal, then traded him for Shawn Marion which obviously didnt help with a tank, so we ended up with 9th pick.

Last year, we literally tried to make the playoffs and lost in the Play-in to end up of with 9th pick to draft Gradey, so no that's not tanking either.

[Duffman100]

yeah we sure did win a championship without having to tank for DD and JV

So 9th overall pick is tanking now? What isn't tanking?

There are 10 years in that list and the ones that matter are the 5th and 9th picks? Losing makes people insane.

3 of them were useless (CV,, Bargnani and Hoffa made no impact).

Ross was salary filler in a deal for a piece that won us a title.
JV was solid and was a key piece in a trade for the title.

Barnes (while great) hasn't proved anything yet.
Bosh was our forced #1 and ended up being a #3 on a title team with two of the best players ever.
Vince and McGrady were incredible talents that never won anything.
McGrady and Camby were products of expansion years, not tanking.

This is the list that anti-tankers should be cowering from?

[YogurtProducer]

You try to secure a top 6 pick this season and then try to improve the team over the off-season, hope the rest of the guys take the next step, and make a push for the playoffs next season.

Masai that you?

https://raptorsrapture.com/posts/regrade-trade-raptors-cripple-their-future-investing-towering-center

It was painfully obvious to everyone but Masai Ujiri and the most ardent Raptors fans that trading for Poeltl was a mistake; it would have been a mistake if they had simply added him for free and then signed him to the contract that they did. Poeltl is a very good, but not elite rim protector, and his ability to defend in space lags behind most of his elite defensive peers. On offense he is a good screen-setter and roll man, but he flubs a lot of finishes around the rim if he can't dunk and doesn't provide any level of spacing.

The type of player is fine in the right role, but he isn't elevating the defense on his own and is probably hurting the offense unless he is operating in a well-spaced environment.

LOL anyone who watches this team knows that this quote is a crock of ****.

it would have been a mistake if they had simply added him for free and then signed him to the contract that they did.

This is one of the worse comments I possibly have ever seen.

Since Siakam was traded there is one rotation player with a +/- that is positive. That player is Jakob Poeltl.

So pretty much now our criticism of Poeltl has turned into "he is very good... but he is not elite!!!". Yeah, no ****. That is why he is paid 19M a year and not 39M.

he flubs a lot of finishes around the rim if he can't dunk and doesn't provide any level of spacing

Guy literally is one of the best finishers in the league and actually dunks very little. Seriously. He has 26 dunks this year on 248 field goals made. Poeltl straight up is one of the most fluid finishers with crafty push shots / layups amongst 7 footers in the entire NBA.

but he isn't elevating the defense on his own and is probably hurting the offense unless he is operating in a well-spaced environment

Again, who does? Maybe Gobert? Who is paid twice as much.

But that being said - defense has been 3 points worse with Jak off all year.

Offensively - a well-spaced environment... you mean one with IQ, GTJ, Dick, RJ (shooting 40% from 3), Nwora, Olynyk, Porter, etc.

Y'all need to learn to separate the player from the trade.

[Duffman100]

he flubs a lot of finishes around the rim if he can't dunk and doesn't provide any level of spacing

How do people come up with this stuff? Last time I checked (about a month or so ago), Jakob was literally the BEST player in the league at finishing under 5ft. He had a few bad finishing games since, but I doubt that has knocked him out of the top 3.

[Tacoma]

You try to secure a top 6 pick this season and then try to improve the team over the off-season, hope the rest of the guys take the next step, and make a push for the playoffs next season.

Masai that you?

https://raptorsrapture.com/posts/regrade-trade-raptors-cripple-their-future-investing-towering-center

It was painfully obvious to everyone but Masai Ujiri and the most ardent Raptors fans that trading for Poeltl was a mistake; it would have been a mistake if they had simply added him for free and then signed him to the contract that they did. Poeltl is a very good, but not elite rim protector, and his ability to defend in space lags behind most of his elite defensive peers. On offense he is a good screen-setter and roll man, but he flubs a lot of finishes around the rim if he can't dunk and doesn't provide any level of spacing.

The type of player is fine in the right role, but he isn't elevating the defense on his own and is probably hurting the offense unless he is operating in a well-spaced environment.

We're tied with MEM for 6th and 7th last now, which means there's a 57% chance (6th) or 66% (7th) we lose our pick to SAS. Our record since the trade has been 2 disappointing seasons. We were 10th in the East before trading for a veteran C & still failed to make the playoffs. By going for it instead of tanking, we also lost draft position in 2023. The Poeltl trade has been a disaster.

What LoveMyRaps is really saying above is we need LUCK to keep our pick and HOPE the rest of the guys takes the next step. So we finally find out Masai's plan is based: on luck and hope.

[LoveMyRaps]

You try to secure a top 6 pick this season and then try to improve the team over the off-season, hope the rest of the guys take the next step, and make a push for the playoffs next season.

Masai that you?

https://raptorsrapture.com/posts/regrade-trade-raptors-cripple-their-future-investing-towering-center

It was painfully obvious to everyone but Masai Ujiri and the most ardent Raptors fans that trading for Poeltl was a mistake; it would have been a mistake if they had simply added him for free and then signed him to the contract that they did. Poeltl is a very good, but not elite rim protector, and his ability to defend in space lags behind most of his elite defensive peers. On offense he is a good screen-setter and roll man, but he flubs a lot of finishes around the rim if he can't dunk and doesn't provide any level of spacing.

The type of player is fine in the right role, but he isn't elevating the defense on his own and is probably hurting the offense unless he is operating in a well-spaced environment.

If I'm not mistaken we were close to being a .500 team with BBQ + Poeltl in the lineup.
As long as those 4 are healthy, I expect this team to be in the hunt for the playoffs next season. That's also because I expect BBQ to come back even better next season given that they're all still young.

[Fairview4Life]

You try to secure a top 6 pick this season and then try to improve the team over the off-season, hope the rest of the guys take the next step, and make a push for the playoffs next season.

Masai that you?

https://raptorsrapture.com/posts/regrade-trade-raptors-cripple-their-future-investing-towering-center

It was painfully obvious to everyone but Masai Ujiri and the most ardent Raptors fans that trading for Poeltl was a mistake; it would have been a mistake if they had simply added him for free and then signed him to the contract that they did. Poeltl is a very good, but not elite rim protector, and his ability to defend in space lags behind most of his elite defensive peers. On offense he is a good screen-setter and roll man, but he flubs a lot of finishes around the rim if he can't dunk and doesn't provide any level of spacing.

The type of player is fine in the right role, but he isn't elevating the defense on his own and is probably hurting the offense unless he is operating in a well-spaced environment.

We're tied with MEM for 6th and 7th last now, which means there's a 57% chance (6th) or 66% (7th) we lose our pick to SAS. Our record since the trade has been 2 disappointing seasons. We were 10th in the East before trading for a veteran C & still failed to make the playoffs. By going for it instead of tanking, we also lost draft position in 2023. The Poeltl trade has been a disaster.

What LoveMyRaps is really saying above is we need LUCK to keep our pick and HOPE the rest of the guys takes the next step. So we finally find out Masai's plan is based: on luck and hope.

I have some bad news about what tanking also requires. Turns out everything in the NBA needs LUCK and HOPE.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Unless we give away the pick this year, we'll be in the hunt for another 20 win season next year.

It'll look like this till 2026.

[Tacoma]

Masai that you?

https://raptorsrapture.com/posts/regrade-trade-raptors-cripple-their-future-investing-towering-center

We're tied with MEM for 6th and 7th last now, which means there's a 57% chance (6th) or 66% (7th) we lose our pick to SAS. Our record since the trade has been 2 disappointing seasons. We were 10th in the East before trading for a veteran C & still failed to make the playoffs. By going for it instead of tanking, we also lost draft position in 2023. The Poeltl trade has been a disaster.

What LoveMyRaps is really saying above is we need LUCK to keep our pick and HOPE the rest of the guys takes the next step. So we finally find out Masai's plan is based: on luck and hope.

I have some bad news about what tanking also requires. Turns out everything in the NBA needs LUCK and HOPE.

Not quite. Everything needs luck and hope. Masai's plan is based largely on luck and hope (as so claimed). Big difference.

And, frankly, I don't know why you guys are going on and on about tanking and anti-tanking. IYou keep re-litigating the same arguments over and over again ad nauseam. Why not just agree to disagree and move on.