With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles!

[DelAbbot]

Masai asked CMB are you good 3 times, maybe Masai knew he was gone

Masai's energy was so low, like he lost someone important to him

[ConSarnit]

With them taking CMB they are really doubling down on their belief Scottie isn't a non-shooter. I disagree and think he should be a super third option but maybe they're seeing something we're not behind the scenes

I can't imagine what they could be seeing that is so incapable of translating into on-court efficacy in the face of what we know about how shooting development does and doesn't work. Stranger things have happened, but this one is just protracted frustration with a face.

Anyway, we'll see what comes. 4/5 type play seems to be what CMB is aimed at, so we'll see what comes from that, I guess. He's here, so I suppose there's only so much remaining utility to kvetching about it. We need some luck again to get ourselves back in the right direction.

Who should they have drafted?

You guys keep focusing on Barnes’ shooting and their biggest acquisition going into next season is Ingram as primary scorer. Do you think our front office never considered that Barnes may never become a good shooter when they drafted him?

Then there were complaints that they’re somehow grabbing players to support Barnes to the detriment to the team when they went out and grabbed CMB who is the exact opposite of a player you would conventionally choose if you were building around Barnes.

At this stage I think some of you are just cranky and complaining for the sake or it lol. Barnes is a plus player and a very good player. They don’t have a team built as if he’s their #1 scorer. He has already met his expectations and achieved more than most would have probably expected when he was first drafted and he’s actually freed up to focus more on defense this year while being selective with his scoring.

It’s clear the Raptors are focusing on defense and aggressive players that who go hard at the opponent. Ingram, IQ, Dick, Battle, Agbaji, and Walter if he keeps progressing can all shoot. The roster is fine.

If people want to know how Masai likes to build his rosters, go watch some Raptors vs Heat games over the last several years.

This absolute BS again. Somehow Barnes, a guy who doesn’t even have top 30 usage in the league, can’t give full effort on offense and defense at the same time.

This level of excuse making is getting crazy.

Also just hand waving away the fit issues of Barnes and CMB is just burying your head in the sand. I’d love to know all of these high level teams who are rolling out the worst shooting in the league at the 4/5 for 48mpg.

[Tha Cynic]

I can't imagine what they could be seeing that is so incapable of translating into on-court efficacy in the face of what we know about how shooting development does and doesn't work. Stranger things have happened, but this one is just protracted frustration with a face.

Anyway, we'll see what comes. 4/5 type play seems to be what CMB is aimed at, so we'll see what comes from that, I guess. He's here, so I suppose there's only so much remaining utility to kvetching about it. We need some luck again to get ourselves back in the right direction.

Who should they have drafted?

You guys keep focusing on Barnes’ shooting and their biggest acquisition going into next season is Ingram as primary scorer. Do you think our front office never considered that Barnes may never become a good shooter when they drafted him?

Then there were complaints that they’re somehow grabbing players to support Barnes to the detriment to the team when they went out and grabbed CMB who is the exact opposite of a player you would conventionally choose if you were building around Barnes.

At this stage I think some of you are just cranky and complaining for the sake or it lol. Barnes is a plus player and a very good player. They don’t have a team built as if he’s their #1 scorer. He has already met his expectations and achieved more than most would have probably expected when he was first drafted and he’s actually freed up to focus more on defense this year while being selective with his scoring.

It’s clear the Raptors are focusing on defense and aggressive players that who go hard at the opponent. Ingram, IQ, Dick, Battle, Agbaji, and Walter if he keeps progressing can all shoot. The roster is fine.

If people want to know how Masai likes to build his rosters, go watch some Raptors vs Heat games over the last several years.

This absolute BS again. Somehow Barnes, a guy who doesn’t even have top 30 usage in the league, can’t give full effort on offense and defense at the same time.

This level of excuse making is getting crazy.

Also just hand waving away the fit issues of Barnes and CMB is just burying your head in the sand. I’d love to know all of these high level teams who are rolling out the worst shooting in the league at the 4/5 for 48mpg.

What are you talking about?

Who said anything about giving full effort on defense vs offense? That’s your own comment.

Who is waving away that he’s not a scorer? They traded for a guy who will push Barnes down the scoring pecking order. Clearly they think he’s not going to be their main scorer.

The point is that they’re not building this team as if he’s a main scoring option.

He was drafted knowing his weakest attribute is his scoring. Clearly they don’t value that over some other skillsets.

[DreamTeam09]

I can't imagine what they could be seeing that is so incapable of translating into on-court efficacy in the face of what we know about how shooting development does and doesn't work. Stranger things have happened, but this one is just protracted frustration with a face.

Anyway, we'll see what comes. 4/5 type play seems to be what CMB is aimed at, so we'll see what comes from that, I guess. He's here, so I suppose there's only so much remaining utility to kvetching about it. We need some luck again to get ourselves back in the right direction.

Who should they have drafted?

You guys keep focusing on Barnes’ shooting and their biggest acquisition going into next season is Ingram as primary scorer. Do you think our front office never considered that Barnes may never become a good shooter when they drafted him?

Then there were complaints that they’re somehow grabbing players to support Barnes to the detriment to the team when they went out and grabbed CMB who is the exact opposite of a player you would conventionally choose if you were building around Barnes.

At this stage I think some of you are just cranky and complaining for the sake or it lol. Barnes is a plus player and a very good player. They don’t have a team built as if he’s their #1 scorer. He has already met his expectations and achieved more than most would have probably expected when he was first drafted and he’s actually freed up to focus more on defense this year while being selective with his scoring.

It’s clear the Raptors are focusing on defense and aggressive players that who go hard at the opponent. Ingram, IQ, Dick, Battle, Agbaji, and Walter if he keeps progressing can all shoot. The roster is fine.

If people want to know how Masai likes to build his rosters, go watch some Raptors vs Heat games over the last several years.

This absolute BS again. Somehow Barnes, a guy who doesn’t even have top 30 usage in the league, can’t give full effort on offense and defense at the same time.

This level of excuse making is getting crazy.

Also just hand waving away the fit issues of Barnes and CMB is just burying your head in the sand. I’d love to know all of these high level teams who are rolling out the worst shooting in the league at the 4/5 for 48mpg.

That's not an excuse, that's just the fact of nature. 100% defense and offense is not a thing, adding another defender or a primary defender does "free up" other defenders to do more things in defense, lol not so sure why that's such an anti statement for you, it's pretty rudemantry stuff in basketball language

[tsherkin]

He was drafted knowing his weakest attribute is his scoring. Clearly they don’t value that over some other skillsets.

This I believe. Everyone and their mom knew Scottie wasn't a scorer but was an excellent defender who could pass some. And he's shown that, time and time again. There is any hope that his usage the past couple seasons was informed more by the desire to see what we had in weaker seasons than any real hope that he could become any kind of consequential scorer of value.

It's one of a pile of different things we won't really have a bead on until the season actually gets underway and we have our full cast and crew on the floor.

[StopitLeo]

He was drafted knowing his weakest attribute is his scoring. Clearly they don’t value that over some other skillsets.

This I believe. Everyone and their mom knew Scottie wasn't a scorer but was an excellent defender who could pass some. And he's shown that, time and time again. There is any hope that his usage the past couple seasons was informed more by the desire to see what we had in weaker seasons than any real hope that he could become any kind of consequential scorer of value.

It's one of a pile of different things we won't really have a bead on until the season actually gets underway and we have our full cast and crew on the floor.

Primary scoring is why we got Ingram, right?

[Cyrus]

Press conf with future Florida Orangtors and MLSE President - Keith Pelly at 1 pm!

[Dalek]

He was drafted knowing his weakest attribute is his scoring. Clearly they don’t value that over some other skillsets.

This I believe. Everyone and their mom knew Scottie wasn't a scorer but was an excellent defender who could pass some. And he's shown that, time and time again. There is any hope that his usage the past couple seasons was informed more by the desire to see what we had in weaker seasons than any real hope that he could become any kind of consequential scorer of value.

It's one of a pile of different things we won't really have a bead on until the season actually gets underway and we have our full cast and crew on the floor.

I do think CMB is a better scorer than what we saw out of Barnes coming in. Barnes was a 6-man defense-transition scorer, versus CMB who is a high usage offensive hub who has an off the dribble game and elite touch in the post.

To me they are different players, as CMB is stronger and more physical overall. Barnes is more of a bully to guards and smaller players, but isn't as dominant with players bigger than him.

[Yallbecrazy]

What I don't get is that Queen gets the high upside offensive player rep yet CBM posted comparable or better numbers across the board, he did it much more efficiently, in a tougher conference on a weaker team. And they're basically the same age, with comparable length.

I've been saying that for months in this forum! (CMB is 6 months younger)

[Yallbecrazy]

Right now, Queen is a far more dangerous half court, set defense scorer than CMB. Ridiculous. Queen's liability is major defensive questions.

Show some data to back up your point.
You won't, because you can't.

[ItsDanger]

Right now, Queen is a far more dangerous half court, set defense scorer than CMB. Ridiculous. Queen's liability is major defensive questions.

Show some data to back up your point.
You won't, because you can't.

Video of the games is the data. CMB plays a bully ball style. Queen is more of a post scorer with footwork. Go watch it instead of taking short cuts.

The key for CMB is at least improving his face up game because he does have the ability to put the ball on the floor. Then proceed from there.

[Yallbecrazy]

Right now, Queen is a far more dangerous half court, set defense scorer than CMB. Ridiculous. Queen's liability is major defensive questions.

Show some data to back up your point.
You won't, because you can't.

Video of the games is the data. CMB plays a bully ball style. Queen is more of a post scorer with footwork. Go watch it instead of taking short cuts.

The key for CMB is at least improving his face up game because he does have the ability to put the ball on the floor. Then proceed from there.

His faceup game is how he scored all his points and your data point was "I watched video", there's no actual data to support your argument.

I don't care if CMB is 5'4 and scoring all his baskets by throwing the ball 40 feet up in the air. He scored at a way higher rate against better players with worse spacing / more attention paid to him. He also had way more assists. I watched full games, maybe you see better footwork/style because Queen had time and space to plot out his attack where CMB had to rush before the double/triple could get there as passing to an open terrible shooter is a worse play then putting up his 62.2TS% shot.

[Jerry Lucas]

Big shoes for CMB to fill now, thanks to what Keith Pelley said here.

Read on Twitter

[tsherkin]

Primary scoring is why we got Ingram, right?

It's the main thing he offers, yes. Which version of him we will get is a question. He hasn't been north of league-average efficiency in almost half a decade and has been under it a couple times. Injuries have affected him quite a bit, so we don't know exactly what we're going to get out of him. But he's a capable isolation scorer who passes well and has range, and he'll exert a lot of positive influence on the rest of the time, which is good even if he isn't a +2% rTS guy like he was at his best. We know he isn't a superstar, so we should expect only so much from him, not miracles.

He'll definitely be positive value. As will having Quickly for more than 30 games, even though he too isn't an elite scorer. We will definitely be a lot better on O this year than last with any kind of basic health.

I do think CMB is a better scorer than what we saw out of Barnes coming in. Barnes was a 6-man defense-transition scorer, versus CMB who is a high usage offensive hub who has an off the dribble game and elite touch in the post.

We'll see how well that translates to the NBA. He isn't an elite athlete, he's going to have issues with NBA size and I don't think we want him handling the ball any more than strictly necessary. That said, if we can use him as a roll man, and have him at times zipping in from the dunker spot, racing out in transition, we can get him doing some of the off-ball stuff at which Scottie isn't a stunner. Just being a good screener alone will be nice. And yes, he finished well in college, but again, I'll wait to see if that translates.

I guess the hope is that he'll wield his physicality more effectively than Scottie. That'd be good. Even in the absence of elite burst, if he can just screen well and fight hard, be aggressive in and around the paint, that might be enough, especially as a reserve. We obviously aren't looking for him to be a volume scorer, so that may mitigate his weakness as a shooter to SOME degree, as long as we're careful with the lineups we trot out.

[ItsDanger]

Show some data to back up your point.
You won't, because you can't.

Video of the games is the data. CMB plays a bully ball style. Queen is more of a post scorer with footwork. Go watch it instead of taking short cuts.

The key for CMB is at least improving his face up game because he does have the ability to put the ball on the floor. Then proceed from there.

His faceup game is how he scored all his points and your data point was "I watched video", there's no actual data to support your argument.

I don't care if CMB is 5'4 and scoring all his baskets by throwing the ball 40 feet up in the air. He scored at a way higher rate against better players with worse spacing / more attention paid to him. He also had way more assists. I watched full games, maybe you see better footwork/style because Queen had time and space to plot out his attack where CMB had to rush before the double/triple could get there as passing to an open terrible shooter is a worse play then putting up his 62.2TS% shot.

Your college stats don't mean **** in NBA where the athletic defense is miles ahead of college.

[tsherkin]

His faceup game is how he scored all his points

That isn't super accurate. There's tons of video showing him planting in the paint and throwing up hooks after getting a good seal. He's dangerous in transition, he hits the O-boards. He cuts well. He takes contact well in the paint. The notion that he was just spamming dribble attack isn't really accurate. He certainly used the face-up game a fair bit, but "scored all his points" is just flat-out hyperbole.

[Yallbecrazy]

Video of the games is the data. CMB plays a bully ball style. Queen is more of a post scorer with footwork. Go watch it instead of taking short cuts.

The key for CMB is at least improving his face up game because he does have the ability to put the ball on the floor. Then proceed from there.

His faceup game is how he scored all his points and your data point was "I watched video", there's no actual data to support your argument.

I don't care if CMB is 5'4 and scoring all his baskets by throwing the ball 40 feet up in the air. He scored at a way higher rate against better players with worse spacing / more attention paid to him. He also had way more assists. I watched full games, maybe you see better footwork/style because Queen had time and space to plot out his attack where CMB had to rush before the double/triple could get there as passing to an open terrible shooter is a worse play then putting up his 62.2TS% shot.

Your college stats don't mean **** in NBA where the athletic defense is miles ahead of college.

Cool, so Queen's #s will go up because "reasons" and CMB's will go down?

[Yallbecrazy]

His faceup game is how he scored all his points

That isn't super accurate. There's tons of video showing him planting in the paint and throwing up hooks after getting a good seal. He's dangerous in transition, he hits the O-boards. He cuts well. He takes contact well in the paint. The notion that he was just spamming dribble attack isn't really accurate. He certainly used the face-up game a fair bit, but "scored all his points" is just flat-out hyperbole.

I didnt mean it literally, but his face up game contributed to more of his scoring than any other.

[tsherkin]

I didnt mean it literally, but his face up game contributed to more of his scoring than any other.

He did it a bunch, no doubt. I question how well that'll translate to the NBA, though, especially with his shooting. I don't think we'll ask it of him, either. I think we'll be leaning a lot more on those other skills. He plays big pretty well, and if he can do that and still defend well, then maybe we can get around his inability to step out and open up the paint. We'll have to see.

Given the roster as-is, we have other guys in the pecking order offensively and he's likely to be coming off the bench anyway... with a bunch of other guys who we're looking to develop and evaluate as offensive threats ahead of him.

[Yallbecrazy]

I didnt mean it literally, but his face up game contributed to more of his scoring than any other.

He did it a bunch, no doubt. I question how well that'll translate to the NBA, though, especially with his shooting. I don't think we'll ask it of him, either. I think we'll be leaning a lot more on those other skills. He plays big pretty well, and if he can do that and still defend well, then maybe we can get around his inability to step out and open up the paint. We'll have to see.

Given the roster as-is, we have other guys in the pecking order offensively and he's likely to be coming off the bench anyway... with a bunch of other guys who we're looking to develop and evaluate as offensive threats ahead of him.

The thing that gets me excited is when teams tried to guard him 1on1 with their best defender (some of whom were drafted this year) he ate those guys alive consistently. Teams had to send doubles and help to get a chance and he still scored well vs that. I think at the very least he can force the defense to send help and quickly feast on any sort of mismatch in transition.