OT: Andrew Wiggins Discussion Thread

[Undefeated]

Someone recap 2nd half for me thanks

[dballislife]

wiggins can be a great nba player, but no way is he looking like a for sure star, let alone for sure franchise changing superstar

[BillyGM]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Irvvb7Y4-w&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]

wow, nice!

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Irvvb7Y4-w&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]

That was awesome

[icoholic]

Wiggins was horrible today... he'd be great for marketing...

[Randle McMurphy]

Someone recap 2nd half for me thanks

Embiid dominated the game defensively, Tharpe facilitated the ball effectively for the first time all season, and Ellis got pretty active on both ends.

Wiggins picked up a few fouls and didn't have much of an impact. They didn't need him to.

[fredericklove]

Someone recap 2nd half for me thanks

Not really a whole lot to recap from Wiggins in 2nd half, he struggled shooting the ball, I think one play it was time running out(?), he went to his right just inside the arc and forced up a contested J, missed it. In that same play Embild was doubled 8 or 9 feet away from the basket, spotted Wiggins sliding over from the baseline, a really quick bullet feed to him, I thought he'd catch and do a quick Shawn Marion type layup or a quick 2 handed dunk, but somehow paused a millisecond, had to gathered himself under the basket (defender came in quickly to challenge him), ended up w/ a reverse lay-up missing the attempt. I think it was near final 8 or 9 min mark, didn't react quick enough to the screener to his right, jumped in and caught the 3 point shooter on the arm, committed his 4th foul, then benched for the rest of the game.

Embilld scored a chunk at the line in 2nd half, a couple of nice post moves, as you see right there in the clip doing the Hakeem shake, got the crowd going, then other one where he positioned down the right block, backs down, goes to his left into the middle area, does an up and under move w/ an attempted left handed hook but was bumped alittle or lost the momentum, ended up two hands holding the ball in mid-air and threw it up, banked the shot, and other one was a nice face up mid range pull up. Opposing team went over the foul limit, so all those little hand touchy fouls led him to the line, scoring a chunk of points from there. I missed final 2 mins, he might have done something there.

[Yosemite Dan]

Geez at this rate maybe the best thing for the Raps is to not even get a sniff of that 1st pick because you know we are picking Wiggins no matter what because he's Canadian and all the marketing potential but if he even turns out to be only a partial bust then this franchise would never recover. Not to mention we wouldn't have to be subjected to all those Bargnani type excuses as to why he is so underwhelming that seemed to have already started.

[gamer1035]

Geez at this rate maybe the best thing for the Raps is to not even get a sniff of that 1st pick because you know we are picking Wiggins no matter what because he's Canadian and all the marketing potential but if he even turns out to be only a partial bust then this franchise would never recover. Not to mention we wouldn't have to be subjected to all those Bargnani type excuses as to why he is so underwhelming that seemed to have already started.

NO the best thing is to get the first pick and to draft BPA. I'm done with this team if Masai pulls a BC and doesn't draft BPA

[Randle McMurphy]

Geez at this rate maybe the best thing for the Raps is to not even get a sniff of that 1st pick because you know we are picking Wiggins no matter what because he's Canadian and all the marketing potential but if he even turns out to be only a partial bust then this franchise would never recover. Not to mention we wouldn't have to be subjected to all those Bargnani type excuses as to why he is so underwhelming that seemed to have already started.

You're slacking here, this troll post doesn't even make sense. If Wiggins is a "partial bust" (whatever that means), the Toronto Raptors will somehow be in a worse spot than they are right now? A position they could never recover from? What?

[Yosemite Dan]

Geez at this rate maybe the best thing for the Raps is to not even get a sniff of that 1st pick because you know we are picking Wiggins no matter what because he's Canadian and all the marketing potential but if he even turns out to be only a partial bust then this franchise would never recover. Not to mention we wouldn't have to be subjected to all those Bargnani type excuses as to why he is so underwhelming that seemed to have already started.

NO the best thing is to get the first pick and to draft BPA. I'm done with this team if Masai pulls a BC and doesn't draft BPA

That would be the common sense thing to do but it's wishful thinking. If Wiggins is still rated in the top 5 (which is a safe bet no matter how badly he performs the rest of the way simply because of the hype that's already been generated) and we have #1 then there is no way we will not pick him. MLSE will put severe pressure on management to do that simply because it renews interest and increased ticket sales for the first couple of years, much more than any other prospect out there, for a franchise that desperately needs it. MLSE is like any other owner, they are in it for the bottom line no matter how short sighted it may be for the long run.

[Yosemite Dan]

Geez at this rate maybe the best thing for the Raps is to not even get a sniff of that 1st pick because you know we are picking Wiggins no matter what because he's Canadian and all the marketing potential but if he even turns out to be only a partial bust then this franchise would never recover. Not to mention we wouldn't have to be subjected to all those Bargnani type excuses as to why he is so underwhelming that seemed to have already started.

You're slacking here, this troll post doesn't even make sense. If Wiggins is a "partial bust" (whatever that means), the Toronto Raptors will somehow be in a worse spot than they are right now? A position they could never recover from? What?

You can't see the forest from the trees but then I'm not suprised. If the Raps drafted Wiggins at #1, you know what kind of marketing drive that would result? MLSE would make him out to be the next Jordan and if he faltered as in a Bargs (I consider Bargs to be a partial bust) type of career where he shows occasional flashes but can never bring it together for a sustained period and the team continues to wallow in mediocrity for several years as they try to build a team to best suit him then yeah it would kill interest in the fanbase. The average fan would think if we screwed it up with Wiggins then what's the point.

Look at what kind of mess this team is in now because of the Bargs experiment. You don't think almost every move the team made after drafting Wiggins would be to try and get the team to gel around him and if he failed to live up to expecatations then we would be spinning our wheels yet again. I thought you were only annoying on the baseball board but your special talent spreads across 2 sports.

[Randle McMurphy]

You can't see the forest from the trees but then I'm not suprised. If the Raps drafted Wiggins at #1, you know what kind of marketing drive that would result? MLSE would make him out to be the next Jordan and if he faltered as in a Bargs (I consider Bargs to be a partial bust) type of career where he shows occasional flashes but can never bring it together for a sustained period and the team continues to wallow in mediocrity for several years as they try to build a team to best suit him then yeah it would kill interest in the fanbase. The average fan would think if we screwed it up with Wiggins then what's the point.

Yet again, you've missed the point. The Raptors are one of the worst organizations in major professional sports as it is. Since Vince Carter was dealt, basketball has become just another niche sport in the city/country. Nobody watches them on television (they get a fraction of the ratings of teams like the Leafs, the Jays and even curling). The serious fans believe the organization is a joke and the casuals (when actually devote any attention at all to them) have come to the same conclusion. They're fortunate to get decent attendance they do, but that isn't going to last either once Masai blows up the team and destroys all of Colangelo's false hope for good. You talk about a possible Wiggins bust killing fan interest, but what kind of situation do you think we're dealing with right now? A positive one?

It can't get much worse than a situation where nobody cares. And that's exactly what faces the Toronto Raptors right now.

Look at what kind of mess this team is in now because of the Bargs experiment. You don't think almost every move the team made after drafting Wiggins would be to try and get the team to gel around him and if he failed to live up to expecatations then we would be spinning our wheels yet again.

We're already spinning our wheels. All that drafting Wiggins (or any of these other potential stars in either this draft or future ones) will do is give the franchise a chance to give out of that pattern. That's the point of doing it. That's the point of getting high-ceiling prospects even if they bust. That's the point of accumulating future assets in the greater scheme of things. If it all doesn't work, you're just back in the same depressing mess that you're in right now. There's no reason not to give it a shot and look for that next Vince Carter.

I thought you were only annoying on the baseball board but your special talent spreads across 2 sports.

Of course, you're every bit as much of a troll everywhere. Talking about Wiggins like he's a bust because he had a bad December game (I should note that you rather noticeably didn't post after either of Wiggins' two previous games where he completely went off on his opponents in hostile road environments) and suggesting ridiculously that the franchise would never recover if they drafted him. Yeah, I'd say you came in here specifically for that purpose.

[Scarface844]

I apologize if what im about to say has already been said. The Wiggins and Jabari scenario reminds me of Lebron and Melo in the 03 draft. There was a lot of hype behind Lebrons athleticism while being considered a weak jump shooter.

He was also considered very raw and had a long way to go in developing his skills (Wiggins) while coming to the NBA straight out of high school.

Melo on the other hand played in college, and while their was a lot of hype behind Lebron and his athleticism (Wiggins) Melo was considered more developed, less raw and was considered the safer option (Jabari).

Lebrons potential defensively and just his game all around was crazy (Wiggins). He was also the hometown hero much like Wiggins would be for Toronto.

Melo was considered a natural scorer who could play both the SF or PF (Jabari) and while his scoring was there and would continue to improve, defensively he wouldn't improve by much.

My point with all this is for those saying go with Jabari or go with someone whos safer needs to understand its not just Wiggins being from Toronto that makes him so special.

His athleticism is the once every generation type much like Lebron. Wiggins has more risk but the reward is even greater if he develops properly. With Masai, a new FO, and soon to be new coaches and players I have no doubt that, that's what will happen, so im willing to risk it all on Wiggins potential.

This is why you hear people say hes the next Lebron. Now as far his play style goes, besides athleticism, I don't think hes like Lebron at all. His play style reminds me a mix of T-Mac, Vince Carter and Paul George.

To top all this off Wiggins is clutch. See some of his highlights in recent games, in clutch moments despite being a weak jump shooter he starts draining everything.

[Boogie!]

I apologize if what im about to say has already been said. The Wiggins and Jabari scenario reminds me of Lebron and Melo in the 03 draft. There was a lot of hype behind Lebrons athleticism while being considered a weak jump shooter.

He was also considered very raw and had a long way to go in developing his skills. He was also coming to the NBA straight out of high school.

Melo on the other hand played in college, and while their was a lot of hype behind Lebron and his athleticism (Wiggins) Melo was considered more developed, less raw and was considered the safer option (Jabari).

Lebrons potential defensively and all around was crazy (Wiggins). He was also the hometown hero much like Wiggins would be for Toronto.

Melo was considered a natural scorer who could play both the SF or PF (Jabari) and while his scoring was there and would continue to improve, defensively he wouldnt improve by much.

My point with all this is for those saying go with Jabari or go with someone whos safer needs to understand its not just Wiggins being from Toronto that he needs to come here.

His athleticism is the once every generation type much like Lebron. Wiggins has more risk but the reward is even greater if he develops properly. With Masai, a new FO, and soon to be new coaches and players I have no doubt that, that's what will happen, so im willing to risk it all on Wiggins potential.

that's kind of bs. lebron had pg skills with forward size and elite athleticism from the get go. his jumpshot was a weakness yes. but he was a more refined player than wiggins. so far, wiggins main strength is his athleticism only... he seems to be a capable defender, but he doesn't have the ball skills and vision that lebron had. that being said the kansas system doesn't favour him offensively and i think his skillset would translate better to the nba.

and lebron is literally a freak of nature with his width, his length, his strength, his athleticism, his speed. he's just a beast and not many people are built like he is which is one of the main reasons he's so good. combine that with his amazing basketball iq and you have possibly the G.O.A.T. wiggins on the other hand, is pretty damn skinny and doesn't look very strong physically. and he doesn't really have wide shoulders either, so it's not like he's gonna fill out and get jacked.

[Scarface844]

I apologize if what im about to say has already been said. The Wiggins and Jabari scenario reminds me of Lebron and Melo in the 03 draft. There was a lot of hype behind Lebrons athleticism while being considered a weak jump shooter.

He was also considered very raw and had a long way to go in developing his skills. He was also coming to the NBA straight out of high school.

Melo on the other hand played in college, and while their was a lot of hype behind Lebron and his athleticism (Wiggins) Melo was considered more developed, less raw and was considered the safer option (Jabari).

Lebrons potential defensively and all around was crazy (Wiggins). He was also the hometown hero much like Wiggins would be for Toronto.

Melo was considered a natural scorer who could play both the SF or PF (Jabari) and while his scoring was there and would continue to improve, defensively he wouldnt improve by much.

My point with all this is for those saying go with Jabari or go with someone whos safer needs to understand its not just Wiggins being from Toronto that he needs to come here.

His athleticism is the once every generation type much like Lebron. Wiggins has more risk but the reward is even greater if he develops properly. With Masai, a new FO, and soon to be new coaches and players I have no doubt that, that's what will happen, so im willing to risk it all on Wiggins potential.

that's kind of bs. lebron had pg skills with forward size and elite athleticism from the get go. his jumpshot was a weakness yes. but he was a more refined player than wiggins. so far, wiggins main strength is his athleticism only... he seems to be a capable defender, but he doesn't have the ball skills and vision that lebron had. that being said the kansas system doesn't favour him offensively and i think his skillset would translate better to the nba.

I think you are underrating Wiggins if you think he doesnt have good ball vision. One of the best things about Wiggins besides his athleticism is his instincts.

Seeing him play, the instincts he has shown are instincts players take a long time to develop. By having them from the get go is key to thriving and developing at the NBA level.

As far Lebron having certain aspects of course im not saying Wiggins is exactly like Lebron or Jabari is exactly like Melo. Im saying these scenarios with these players are much similar to the 03 draft.

[Boogie!]

I apologize if what im about to say has already been said. The Wiggins and Jabari scenario reminds me of Lebron and Melo in the 03 draft. There was a lot of hype behind Lebrons athleticism while being considered a weak jump shooter.

He was also considered very raw and had a long way to go in developing his skills. He was also coming to the NBA straight out of high school.

Melo on the other hand played in college, and while their was a lot of hype behind Lebron and his athleticism (Wiggins) Melo was considered more developed, less raw and was considered the safer option (Jabari).

Lebrons potential defensively and all around was crazy (Wiggins). He was also the hometown hero much like Wiggins would be for Toronto.

Melo was considered a natural scorer who could play both the SF or PF (Jabari) and while his scoring was there and would continue to improve, defensively he wouldnt improve by much.

My point with all this is for those saying go with Jabari or go with someone whos safer needs to understand its not just Wiggins being from Toronto that he needs to come here.

His athleticism is the once every generation type much like Lebron. Wiggins has more risk but the reward is even greater if he develops properly. With Masai, a new FO, and soon to be new coaches and players I have no doubt that, that's what will happen, so im willing to risk it all on Wiggins potential.

that's kind of bs. lebron had pg skills with forward size and elite athleticism from the get go. his jumpshot was a weakness yes. but he was a more refined player than wiggins. so far, wiggins main strength is his athleticism only... he seems to be a capable defender, but he doesn't have the ball skills and vision that lebron had. that being said the kansas system doesn't favour him offensively and i think his skillset would translate better to the nba.

I think you are underrating Wiggins if you think he doesnt have good ball vision. One of the best things about Wiggins besides his athleticism is his instincts.

Seeing him play the instincts he has are something that takes players a long time to develop, by having them already hes already ahead, just needs to prove it.

As far Lebron having certain aspects of course im not saying Wiggins is exactly like Lebron or Jabari is exactly like Melo. Im saying these scenarios with these players are much similar to the 03 draft.

but you can't really say that though. because as basketball players, it was arguable at the time that lebron was already the better overall player. it's just he was coming out of high school where as melo was in college so scouts could see what he could do at a better level of competition. right now, it's hard to argue that wiggins is already a better basketball player than parker. everything is just based on potential.

[Scarface844]

that's kind of bs. lebron had pg skills with forward size and elite athleticism from the get go. his jumpshot was a weakness yes. but he was a more refined player than wiggins. so far, wiggins main strength is his athleticism only... he seems to be a capable defender, but he doesn't have the ball skills and vision that lebron had. that being said the kansas system doesn't favour him offensively and i think his skillset would translate better to the nba.

I think you are underrating Wiggins if you think he doesnt have good ball vision. One of the best things about Wiggins besides his athleticism is his instincts.

Seeing him play the instincts he has are something that takes players a long time to develop, by having them already hes already ahead, just needs to prove it.

As far Lebron having certain aspects of course im not saying Wiggins is exactly like Lebron or Jabari is exactly like Melo. Im saying these scenarios with these players are much similar to the 03 draft.

but you can't really say that though. because as basketball players, it was arguable at the time that lebron was already the better overall player. it's just he was coming out of high school where as melo was in college so scouts could see what he could do at a better level of competition. right now, it's hard to argue that wiggins is already a better basketball player than parker. everything is just based on potential.

Oh it was which is my point. While you could argue Bron was the better player people at that time if you go back and look through scouting reports and articles people felt Lebron was all potential based where as Melo was developed.

Thats all im saying because even now, some people would argue Wiggins is the better player just based off his athleticism. The whole situation is similar to the 03 draft is all im saying.

[Boogie!]

I think you are underrating Wiggins if you think he doesnt have good ball vision. One of the best things about Wiggins besides his athleticism is his instincts.

Seeing him play the instincts he has are something that takes players a long time to develop, by having them already hes already ahead, just needs to prove it.

As far Lebron having certain aspects of course im not saying Wiggins is exactly like Lebron or Jabari is exactly like Melo. Im saying these scenarios with these players are much similar to the 03 draft.

but you can't really say that though. because as basketball players, it was arguable at the time that lebron was already the better overall player. it's just he was coming out of high school where as melo was in college so scouts could see what he could do at a better level of competition. right now, it's hard to argue that wiggins is already a better basketball player than parker. everything is just based on potential.

Oh it was which is my point. While you could argue Bron was the better player people at that time if you go back and look through scouting reports and articles people felt Lebron was all potential based where as Melo was developed.

Thats all im saying because even now, some people would argue Wiggins is the better player just based off his athleticism. The whole situation is similar to the 03 draft is all im saying.

no, what you're really saying is that wiggins is probably gonna turn out to be the better player, despite him looking pretty ineffective at times and very raw. what i'm trying to say is i'm not so sure... i believe if lebron went to college, he would've dominated from the get go. i really hope wiggins turns out to be special, but the fact that he has **** games like this isn't a good sign. hopefully he steps it up.

[Scarface844]

but you can't really say that though. because as basketball players, it was arguable at the time that lebron was already the better overall player. it's just he was coming out of high school where as melo was in college so scouts could see what he could do at a better level of competition. right now, it's hard to argue that wiggins is already a better basketball player than parker. everything is just based on potential.

Oh it was which is my point. While you could argue Bron was the better player people at that time if you go back and look through scouting reports and articles people felt Lebron was all potential based where as Melo was developed.

Thats all im saying because even now, some people would argue Wiggins is the better player just based off his athleticism. The whole situation is similar to the 03 draft is all im saying.

no, what you're really saying is that wiggins is probably gonna turn out to be the better player, despite him looking pretty ineffective at times and very raw. what i'm trying to say is i'm not so sure... i believe if lebron went to college, he would've dominated from the get go. i really hope wiggins turns out to be special, but the fact that he has **** games like this isn't a good sign. hopefully he steps it up.

Again its matter of how you interpret it. I said he has the potential to be better. I do believe he will be better but that's off my faith in him and his potential.

Come on, everyone has bad games hes 18 it comes down to being patient and letting him develop. We see bad stretches of games from even the best NBA players.

Their was a article out today on how some GMs are ready to give Wiggins the max contract if it was possible. I havent read anything like that about Jabari. It tells you how much potential they see in Wiggins vs Jabari.