The Official Cunningham vs Suggs Thread #Tank4Either

[niQ]

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[tdotrep2]

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hoo man

[Jadoogar]

I don't watch college at all. Can some explain why people are rating Mobley over Cunningham?
All the mocks i've read have Cunningham #1 and in today's league, wings are just more valuable than centers.

His tournament performance has propelled him ahead of Cade. It shows how Mobley can take a mediocre team like USC to the Elite 8. Cade could not accomplish the same and is not an explosive athlete, while Mobley looks like the closest thing to Anthony Davis. I think he is probably not AD but the next KAT.

I agree that jumbo creators like Cade should probably be number 1, but Mobley has really asserted himself as the number 1 pick this month. Hard to argue with his results.

Does tournament performance matter that much? Didn't Ben Simmons college team do poorly?
I think tournaments like this should be taken with a grain of salt, any team can perform poorly for 1 game and be out of the tournament

[720]

If people think USC is a mediocre team without Mobley then what is OSU without Cade? lol

[Psubs]

Wagner is a sophomore but is 19 like the other freshman (not Kuminga). I do like the Detlef Schremp comp!

I remember being a proponent of Kai Jones early. He hasn't improved that much over his sophomore season. If they want a project that will take 3-4 years then sure. He is just not a rim-protector like Scottie Barnes isn't a rebounder.

I think a good comp for Kai is now Kelly Olynyk. Let's sign Olynyk and draft Kai to learn from him.

[Dalek]

I don't watch college at all. Can some explain why people are rating Mobley over Cunningham?
All the mocks i've read have Cunningham #1 and in today's league, wings are just more valuable than centers.

His tournament performance has propelled him ahead of Cade. It shows how Mobley can take a mediocre team like USC to the Elite 8. Cade could not accomplish the same and is not an explosive athlete, while Mobley looks like the closest thing to Anthony Davis. I think he is probably not AD but the next KAT.

I agree that jumbo creators like Cade should probably be number 1, but Mobley has really asserted himself as the number 1 pick this month. Hard to argue with his results.

Does tournament performance matter that much? Didn't Ben Simmons college team do poorly?
I think tournaments like this should be taken with a grain of salt, any team can perform poorly for 1 game and be out of the tournament

Totally a fair comment, because in sports especially, there is always recency bias. That said, I do think the pressure of the tournament and a prospects performance means something. Steph Curry and Davidson's run to the Elite 8, CJ McCollum and Lehigh's upset of Duke, all launched guys into superstardom. Mobley is playing with a bunch of non-NBA guys.

Conversely, a guy like Suggs is playing on a loaded roster and he doesn't have to do much but set the table most times. If he was in a Mobley situation, maybe he would be in the number one conversation if he shows out.

You can't go wrong with either Cade or Mobley. Maybe you go Cade if you have no culture like Charlotte did with Lamelo Ball. If I am starting a team I want Cade because he will change your culture. Mobley is probably better for a more established team with a good core like Toronto. I'd like to see Mobley in Toronto because they will develop him the right way. Kind of like Wiseman going to GSW. It is the right environment for success. Cade would also do well in Toronto, but I wonder how he fits with FVV and Lowry. That is a lot of alphas to contend with.

[Psubs]

I don't watch college at all. Can some explain why people are rating Mobley over Cunningham?
All the mocks i've read have Cunningham #1 and in today's league, wings are just more valuable than centers.

His tournament performance has propelled him ahead of Cade. It shows how Mobley can take a mediocre team like USC to the Elite 8. Cade could not accomplish the same and is not an explosive athlete, while Mobley looks like the closest thing to Anthony Davis. I think he is probably not AD but the next KAT.

I agree that jumbo creators like Cade should probably be number 1, but Mobley has really asserted himself as the number 1 pick this month. Hard to argue with his results.

Does tournament performance matter that much? Didn't Ben Simmons college team do poorly?
I think tournaments like this should be taken with a grain of salt, any team can perform poorly for 1 game and be out of the tournament

If USC somehow beats Gonzaga, I would say that would solidify Mobley as a top 2 pick and solidify Suggs and #4 at best (possibly #5).

[BoyzNTheHood]

Queta or Bassey in the 2nd round please!!

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[BoyzNTheHood]

I'm also just going to leave this here

"Off Night"

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[Dalek]

If people think USC is a mediocre team without Mobley then what is OSU without Cade? lol

Both teams would suck without Cade or Mobley, that is for sure. Honestly, after seeing the G-League Ignite experiment I think the top 1 and done guys would be better served to go that route rather than slogging through college.

Cade and Mobley showcased enough to be top picks, but I can't help but feel that watching Kuminga and Green play against NBA caliber athletes showed way more in a close to NBA context. They had NBA vets in their ears and in practice. Also had 100% focus on basketball as opposed to academics.

[Dalek]

I'm also just going to leave this here

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People love Davion Mitchell who at 6'3" is way too undersized to be a two-guard ; he is basically Ty Maxey size. Because Baylor is such a big thing, he likely gets picked in the first round.

I 100% prefer Deuce McBride in the second round who is just an inch shorter but probably a more diverse scorer, equal defender and better athlete than Mitchell. Here is he doing the same thing to Cade:

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[Psubs]

If people think USC is a mediocre team without Mobley then what is OSU without Cade? lol

Both teams would suck without Cade or Mobley, that is for sure. Honestly, after seeing the G-League Ignite experiment I think the top 1 and done guys would be better served to go that route rather than slogging through college.

Cade and Mobley showcased enough to be top picks, but I can't help but feel that watching Kuminga and Green play against NBA caliber athletes showed way more in a close to NBA context. They had NBA vets in their ears and in practice. Also had 100% focus on basketball as opposed to academics.

https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/?year-mock=2022

Would the undecideds be the ones going GLeague?

I could see Holmgren and Hardy getting the cash that Jalen Green and Kuminga got. Then the others getting less like Nix and Todd.

What about Emoni Bates?

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/261665/G-League-Being-Very-Aggressive-Approaching-Top-Recruits-To-Join-2022-Ignite-Team

https://247sports.com/Article/Gonzaga-eying-a-top-five-class-Chet-Holmgren-163109334/

Gonzaga is the new Duke.

[BoyzNTheHood]

I'm also just going to leave this here

"Off Night"

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People love Davion Mitchell who at 6'3" is way too undersized to be a two-guard ; he is basically Ty Maxey size. Because Baylor is such a big thing, he likely gets picked in the first round.

I 100% prefer Deuce McBride in the second round who is just an inch shorter but probably a more diverse scorer, equal defender and better athlete than Mitchell. Here is he doing the same thing to Cade:

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They're very similar talents, but McBride is much younger.

[HeadtopChunes]

Queta or Bassey in the 2nd round please!!

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we know the Raptors love their MWC DPOYS lol

[Psubs]

Would Queta be around at #44? I'd like to take Queta and Huff with #44 and #45!!! Then could have big and skinny 7 footers depending on the situation and internal competition like Ibaka/Gasol duo. At least neither are short.

[Indeed]

I do see Wagner as being a high-end glue guy type just like you do. I see a lot of Detlef Schrempf in him. The wirey frame, heady play and scoring instincts. Also Schrempf is German like Wagner.

Wagner is still pretty young. There is some chance he could be the next Gordon Hayward if he can add to his frame and stays healthy. That's not a bad outcome at 10ish range.

I don't really see anything special with Barnes to put him higher than Wagner. Can't shoot, and I don't think he is a better defender than Wagner. Barnes and the supposed gifted playmaking doesn't add up to me. He has a really high dribble which will get eaten alive in the NBA.

My top 15 looks like currently:

1. Mobley - Once in a generation unicorn
2. Cade - Elite leader and jumbo creator
3. Green - Special athlete with creativity off the bouncer
4. Suggs - Elite leader with great burst; has to play a smaller role on a stacked Gonzaga team
5. Kuminga - Siakam type of two-way threat
6. Bouknight - Devin Booker type scorer
7. Jalen Johnson - prototypical NBA wing or small ball four
8. Kai Jones - elite athlete and fluidity for his size; Myles Turner project
9. Wagner - A well-rounded long player that fit the modern NBA
10. Moody - Strong two-way player, very safe pick that should be NBA ready

11. Zaire Williams - 6'8" SG with his skills are hard to pass up - he is a project.
12. Josh Giddey - very young jumbo creator who has far exceeded even Lamelo Ball's numbers in Australia
13. Keon Johnson - elite athlete like Myles Bridges
14. Springer - Could end up one of the best PGs in the class
15. Kispert - Elite shooter

Wagner comparison would be Dunleavy. His help defense from a wing is good, but individual defense may need help. He can't get through screens. A bit of a tweener between SF and PF.

It is possible we take Kai Jones or Isaiah Jackson. Kai Jones is like a bigger Boucher, while Isaiah Jackson is like a taller Faried. Both need 2 years to be able to stay on the floor. I believe Davion Mitchell is raising as well, and if Bayor beats Gonzaga, very likely he will raise his stock before draft combine shuffle a bit, may end up near the lottery (his age maybe a concern to teams).

I am a big Isaiah Jackson fan as well, but he is slightly below that of Usman Garuba. It was really hard not to put the best defensive player in the top 15, but watching the NBA this year, it seems like the biggest NBA focus is on versatility on offense not having elite defense. Guys like Garuba, Jackson and Day’Ron Sharpe are all in that 15-20 range to me.

Garuba is the highest because there isn't a more versatile defender and he can finish and pass decently on offense. He is the image of Bam Adebayo. Regarding bigs, Toronto has two 40s picks and I think drafting bigs in that range make more sense. Focus on BPA first then go with size in the second round. Guys like Todd, Bassey, Queta, Hukporti, Cockburn, Petrusev, Garza are all in that range.

I have Isaiah Jackson higher, as he showed jaw step and SF skills, which I prefer to take him ahead of Garuba

In usual draft, Isaiah Jackson (and perhaps Usman Garuba) would be drafted around late 1st or 2nd round. Playing for Kentucky may have him higher now.
Depends on the measurement as well. If Isaiah Jackson is measured more than 7'4 wingspan (currently 7'3), he may be drafted in the low 1st. Robert Williams with 7'4 wingspan was drafted by Boston in late 1st, Isaiah Stewart last year (7'4 wingspan) was drafted around 15 in a weak draft.

I also see Todd raising, but he is a SF/PF, not a C like Isaiah Jackson

[HeadtopChunes]

Would Queta be around at #44? I'd like to take Queta and Huff with #44 and #45!!! Then could have big and skinny 7 footers depending on the situation and internal competition like Ibaka/Gasol duo. At least neither are short.

Queta should be there, although i dont like Huff, my big 2nd round talent is Kessler Edwards, he's a top 20 guy in this draft imo

[Syd-TK3]

Isaiah Todd with one of our 2nds

[Indeed]

Haven’t watched much of Moody yet but from what I’ve seen he kinda reminds me of a young Beal. Anyone have more of a report on him?

I don't see the comparison on Beal. Beal plays like Wade back then (not as quick as Wade, but using driving in close out), and I was high on him. Last game, Moody was shooting contested jumpshot, definitely not at the Beal basketball IQ level, nor the ball handling to create.

[Dalek]

I have Isaiah Jackson higher, as he showed jaw step and SF skills, which I prefer to take him ahead of Garuba

In usual draft, Isaiah Jackson (and perhaps Usman Garuba) would be drafted around late 1st or 2nd round. Playing for Kentucky may have him higher now.
Depends on the measurement as well. If Isaiah Jackson is measured more than 7'4 wingspan (currently 7'3), he may be drafted in the low 1st. Robert Williams with 7'4 wingspan was drafted by Boston in late 1st, Isaiah Stewart last year (7'4 wingspan) was drafted around 15 in a weak draft.

I also see Todd raising, but he is a SF/PF, not a C like Isaiah Jackson

For me the concern with Jackson is weight. He was only 206 with a small hand length (9 inches) when they measured him at the Kentucky Pro Day.

Garuba is likely an inch shorter in height but he is around 230 and looks strong as heck playing in the second best league in the world.

The guy to watch out for as is Yoan Makoundo. He is a legit freak athlete a little bigger than both Garuba and Jackson playing on Cholet. Loads of good stuff about him here:
http://jtmbasketball.blogspot.com/2021/02/circling-globe-part-2-yoan-makoundou.html

I think he is a guy to look at with a second round pick. Could let him develop in Europe for another year or bring him over.