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WuTang_OG wrote:Could Suggs be this draft classe's top 5 busts?
theonlyeastcoastrapsfan wrote:I've been really happy with Scottie's pre-season. There will be times that there's a miss, but I must say I really now admire that Masai has the courage and confidence to ignore consensus and put his neck out. I tend to feel like Raps really liked Kawhi in his draft year, and Masai would have had the courage to take him, at 5 despite what the ranks were saying. And it would have been overall the right call, at the end of the day. They also hit on guys no one really see's. Like take Siakam we had a 9th pick and a 27th. we had guys we brought in to look at for 9 still on the board when they took Pascal at 27. They know something there that people were missing, and I bet they knew Pascal all along that Pascal was the real prize - in that case, they recognized the disparity in how they valued Pascal vs the field and were able to navigate it. It's an approach that will get you a few Bruno's but it's better than just following mock and on-line consensus. Anyone could do that. We have a front office that can see value on their own and the courage to act on it. Most teams don't.
God Squad wrote:vulture wrote:https://www.nbabigboard.com/p/preseason-grades-east-freeTORONTO RAPTORS
Scottie Barnes (4)
Grade: A-
5 games: 26.3 mpg, 9.8 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 5.6 apg, 1.8 tpg, 1.2 spg, 1.2 bpg, 0% from 3
Dalano Banton (46)
Grade: C+
5 games: 14.4 mpg, 5.2 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 3 apg, 2.2 tpg, 0.2 spg, 0.8 bpg, 14.3% from 3
David Johnson (47)
Grade: D
3 games: 8.4 mpg, 2.3 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 1 apg, 1.3 tpg, 0.3 spg, 0 bpg, 20% from 3
Justin Champagnie (ND)
Grade: B+
5 games: 18.4 mpg, 7.4 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 1.4 apg, 1.4 tpg, 1.6 spg, 0.8 bpg, 27.3% from 3
Raptors fans must be feeling much better about Toronto passing on Jalen Suggs after Barnes posted a terrific preseason. He showed he can defend all five positions and that overall he’s ahead of where most scouts thought he’d be. Barnes led all rookies and his team in assists per game and posted an impressive (especially for a rookie) 3-to-1 assist-to-turnover ratio. His 3-point jump shot is still a major work in progress, but he showed off a nice midrange jumper.
Everything I saw this preseason says that Barnes was worthy of a top-4 pick and might become the best player in this draft class.
Champagnie, who went undrafted, was the other impressive young player for the Raptors. He’s a ballhound who uses his motor and toughness all over the floor. His rebounding and defensive numbers were impressive. Like Barnes, he needs to develop a passable 3-point shot. If he does, Champagnie can potentially escape the label of undersized 4.
Banton also looks like he’s got real potential as another big point guard who’s a jump shot away from sticking in the league. We’ll be watching his development closely.
Any chance you can link the break down of some other prospects? I'd love to read, but not paying for a Chad Ford subscription lol.
KrazyP wrote:theonlyeastcoastrapsfan wrote:I've been really happy with Scottie's pre-season. There will be times that there's a miss, but I must say I really now admire that Masai has the courage and confidence to ignore consensus and put his neck out. I tend to feel like Raps really liked Kawhi in his draft year, and Masai would have had the courage to take him, at 5 despite what the ranks were saying. And it would have been overall the right call, at the end of the day. They also hit on guys no one really see's. Like take Siakam we had a 9th pick and a 27th. we had guys we brought in to look at for 9 still on the board when they took Pascal at 27. They know something there that people were missing, and I bet they knew Pascal all along that Pascal was the real prize - in that case, they recognized the disparity in how they valued Pascal vs the field and were able to navigate it. It's an approach that will get you a few Bruno's but it's better than just following mock and on-line consensus. Anyone could do that. We have a front office that can see value on their own and the courage to act on it. Most teams don't.
I think the Raps put more of an emphasis on character than other teams to do.
By this I mean identifying players with strong work ethic, ability to take criticism and improve from it, ability to get along with others, being humble (dont want egomanics), passion, internal confidence, etc. These things relate to emotional intelligence (EQ) and go a long way in determining whether or not somebody can maximize their natural talent.
If you fill an entire lockerroom exclusively with players of this type, it leads to an environment of growth, strong team chemistry and "winning".
PD28 wrote:WuTang_OG wrote:Could Suggs be this draft classe's top 5 busts?
Not a chance. He's going to be playing on a bad team not even trying to win. He should be able to produce some nice raw stats just from the sheer playing time he should get. His defense is too good for him to not at least turn into a Marcus Smart.
PrinceAli wrote:This is what will separate Scottie from Simmons. He’s got the right mindset and work ethic and has the luxury of 2 leaders who’ve built themselves from essentially nothing when they entered the league
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God Squad wrote:PD28 wrote:WuTang_OG wrote:Could Suggs be this draft classe's top 5 busts?
Not a chance. He's going to be playing on a bad team not even trying to win. He should be able to produce some nice raw stats just from the sheer playing time he should get. His defense is too good for him to not at least turn into a Marcus Smart.
Yup. His defense alone will assure he doesn't "bust", he that good so far. I just think he's more in the George Hill(low end) or Jrue Holiday(high end) compared to those saying Wade/Roy comps or Franchise guy.
WuTang_OG wrote:God Squad wrote:PD28 wrote:
Not a chance. He's going to be playing on a bad team not even trying to win. He should be able to produce some nice raw stats just from the sheer playing time he should get. His defense is too good for him to not at least turn into a Marcus Smart.
Yup. His defense alone will assure he doesn't "bust", he that good so far. I just think he's more in the George Hill(low end) or Jrue Holiday(high end) compared to those saying Wade/Roy comps or Franchise guy.
At pick #5 and all the hype surrounding him, if he's in the George Hill range, that's a bust.
PoundTown wrote:WuTang_OG wrote:God Squad wrote:Yup. His defense alone will assure he doesn't "bust", he that good so far. I just think he's more in the George Hill(low end) or Jrue Holiday(high end) compared to those saying Wade/Roy comps or Franchise guy.
At pick #5 and all the hype surrounding him, if he's in the George Hill range, that's a bust.
Disagree; If George Hill was picked at 5 he would not be a bust. He has outperformed more 5th overall picks than the other way around. For example, no one calls Raymond Felton a bust and George Hill had a better career. I'd say George Hill's career can be compaed to JV's in terms of overall effectiveness. Hill was a borderline allstar for a 3 year period and one of the best two way guards and one of best 3 point shooters. If he turns into a George Hill type of player he'd make himself over 150 million dollars over a 15 year career given his young age.
Brinbe wrote:it's not even about going young, it's about building a non-toxic culture predicated on a committed work ethic and valuing team chemistry above just adding anyone. and if they're disharmonious, you jettison them. that's largely what bad teams overlook in any sport. how many year have the magic, kings, wolves been picking in the lottery without any development?
the raptors/masai have it figured it out for the most part. fred/pascal/og were already self-motivated personalities but also observed/learned these traits from demar/kyle (as well as kawhi) for years and they're passing that on now. this is what they say when analytics don't quite tell you everything in sports and there's still lots of room for eye-test scouting too.
one day scottie will be the leader in that locker room and inevitably pass on those same lessons too and that's how you sustain/grow/develop a positive culture.
that's how you have a team (and players therein) that constantly overachieves when weighed against common expectation.
PrinceAli wrote:Chuck picked Scottie to win ROY on Inside the NBA last night fwiw
