Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6

[Tha Cynic]

Barnes is doing this through his jumper right now. I believe TS% puts a premium on 3 point shooting. He will need to really up his freethows once his 3s come down to keep at a higher TS%.

But, I think we're getting ahead of ourselves here. The team really isn't constructed in a way that is ideal for his play style so that TS% will be difficult to maintain on a team where the pain is always packed. I'm more concerned with how he's playing on the court and the fact that the jumper is simply better and one that can clearly keep improving with the form he has. We definitely need to see him attack the rim more and Darko himself has called that out. That's what you want your coach encouraging.

[Scase]

Just imagine Scotty with Wemby it's over for the entire league for the next 10-15 years!

Had to trade FVV and Pascal last trade deadline and tank hard, then would've had as much chance at Wemby as SA did. League should've given Wemby to Charlotte.

Eew, no. F*** Charlotte. Wemby has a better chance to evolve into his best form (no Pokemon jokes!) with the Spurs. They have like 35 years of big man development pedigree under their belt, some great mentors, etc. Charlotte is a flaming trash-heap wasteland.

That's a massive jump for a player in his prime, but huge leaps aren't uncommon for second/third year players.

Scottie shot 52.4% TS% last year, and is now 61% flat. Find me another second or third year player making that level of efficiency jump. Not Tatum, not Luka, not Lebron, not even the king of efficiency himself Jokic did, he jumped 6%.

You don't seem to grasp how massive an 8.5% TS% increase is man.

Let's get to at least 20 games before we start caring about individual, specific numbers, man... Scottie looks better and that will likely carry the whole season but he is going to drop off to some.degree at some point. We are probably looking at more like 57 or 58% by season's end if he continues to shoot the 3 well all year. That's still a sizeable (and welcome) improvement, but wait until we start seeing more second and third games against teams. A little more re-scouting time. His first extended shooting slump. See what happens with that draw rate. Maybe it maintains, maybe it normalizes... maybe it bumps and he looks better there by midseason.

It's just so early.

Some context: Steph is up over 75% TS at the moment. HE is going to settle. So will Scottie, it's more a matter of exactly how and what he looks like when that happens.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this is a done deal, just pointing out that this is what we're seeing for now. I definitely expect him to settle lower, but nothing about his game thus far looks unsustainable. He's not taking crazy 3's that are just dropping, no circus shots, nothing like that, all his attempts just look in the flow of the offence.

[djsunyc]

Call me crazy, but if the twolves don't do anything significant, I'd like for us to try for KAT. We could cover for his defensive issues, and it would open up the floor a ton.

I read and enjoy all of your posts. There is still time to delete this one, then I will delete my reply, and we'll just pretend you never said this.

Myles Turner would've been the ideal fit

drtg/net
last 4 years for myles:
20/21: 107.9 / +1.3
21/22: 109.9 / -0.3
22/23: 116.3 / -1.2
23/24: 115.8 / -3.4

yak:
20/21: 109.0 / +3.2
21/22: 111.8 / +3.4
22/23: 108.5 / +9.1 (with us)
23/24: 101.6 / +5.5

myles turner is one of the more overrated players on this forum.

[ItsDanger]

Myles Turner hits 3s and spaces the floor for Barnes/Siakam. That is why he's mentioned. Defensive rating is but one stat. Consider the overall impact on the roster instead.

[tsherkin]

Had to trade FVV and Pascal last trade deadline and tank hard, then would've had as much chance at Wemby as SA did. League should've given Wemby to Charlotte.

Eew, no. F*** Charlotte. Wemby has a better chance to evolve into his best form (no Pokemon jokes!) with the Spurs. They have like 35 years of big man development pedigree under their belt, some great mentors, etc. Charlotte is a flaming trash-heap wasteland.

Scottie shot 52.4% TS% last year, and is now 61% flat. Find me another second or third year player making that level of efficiency jump. Not Tatum, not Luka, not Lebron, not even the king of efficiency himself Jokic did, he jumped 6%.

You don't seem to grasp how massive an 8.5% TS% increase is man.

Let's get to at least 20 games before we start caring about individual, specific numbers, man... Scottie looks better and that will likely carry the whole season but he is going to drop off to some.degree at some point. We are probably looking at more like 57 or 58% by season's end if he continues to shoot the 3 well all year. That's still a sizeable (and welcome) improvement, but wait until we start seeing more second and third games against teams. A little more re-scouting time. His first extended shooting slump. See what happens with that draw rate. Maybe it maintains, maybe it normalizes... maybe it bumps and he looks better there by midseason.

It's just so early.

Some context: Steph is up over 75% TS at the moment. HE is going to settle. So will Scottie, it's more a matter of exactly how and what he looks like when that happens.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this is a done deal, just pointing out that this is what we're seeing for now. I definitely expect him to settle lower, but nothing about his game thus far looks unsustainable. He's not taking crazy 3's that are just dropping, no circus shots, nothing like that, all his attempts just look in the flow of the offence.

If all you're saying is that he has been lights-out to start the season, that is certainly true. But when we start talking about size of percentage jump, it is a little cart before the horde, you know?

[Scase]

Eew, no. F*** Charlotte. Wemby has a better chance to evolve into his best form (no Pokemon jokes!) with the Spurs. They have like 35 years of big man development pedigree under their belt, some great mentors, etc. Charlotte is a flaming trash-heap wasteland.



Let's get to at least 20 games before we start caring about individual, specific numbers, man... Scottie looks better and that will likely carry the whole season but he is going to drop off to some.degree at some point. We are probably looking at more like 57 or 58% by season's end if he continues to shoot the 3 well all year. That's still a sizeable (and welcome) improvement, but wait until we start seeing more second and third games against teams. A little more re-scouting time. His first extended shooting slump. See what happens with that draw rate. Maybe it maintains, maybe it normalizes... maybe it bumps and he looks better there by midseason.

It's just so early.

Some context: Steph is up over 75% TS at the moment. HE is going to settle. So will Scottie, it's more a matter of exactly how and what he looks like when that happens.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this is a done deal, just pointing out that this is what we're seeing for now. I definitely expect him to settle lower, but nothing about his game thus far looks unsustainable. He's not taking crazy 3's that are just dropping, no circus shots, nothing like that, all his attempts just look in the flow of the offence.

If all you're saying is that he has been lights-out to start the season, that is certainly true. But when we start talking about size of percentage jump, it is a little cart before the horde, you know?

Always gotta watch out for those hordes But yeah I agree, until I see this for like 20 games I'm not entirely sold on it, but hard not to get hyped for it so far.

[tsherkin]

Always gotta watch out for those hordes But yeah I agree, until I see this for like 20 games I'm not entirely sold on it, but hard not to get hyped for it so far.

WAAAUGH!

I mean, yes, "horse." The touchscreen on the Pixel 4A is quite literally the worst I have ever used. Whoops!

I think we can be comfortable with his percentage from 3-10. We know his perimeter shooting under the arc will normalize. What I am watching for is how his 3pt shooting goes over time, if he can keep generating this many of his shots inside 10 feet and what his draw rate looks like.

Honestly, as long as he maintains his proportion and percentage from 3-10, that alone will make him very good. If he can do that and keep shooting 33%+ from three, he will look very good for us.

[Scase]

I read and enjoy all of your posts. There is still time to delete this one, then I will delete my reply, and we'll just pretend you never said this.

Myles Turner would've been the ideal fit

drtg/net
last 4 years for myles:
20/21: 107.9 / +1.3
21/22: 109.9 / -0.3
22/23: 116.3 / -1.2
23/24: 115.8 / -3.4

yak:
20/21: 109.0 / +3.2
21/22: 111.8 / +3.4
22/23: 108.5 / +9.1 (with us)
23/24: 101.6 / +5.5

myles turner is one of the more overrated players on this forum.

Lol no one cares about the defensive fit, we need spacing. Replacing Jak with Turner overall makes for a better team. We'd still have multiple + defenders on the team and that would not only cover up his deficiencies, but also help improve his defensive stats.

Pacers from the 21-22 season until today have been in the bottom 3-5 of the NBA for team DRTG. That is more indicative of his stats looking worse than his individual performance. 1 player doesn't do that, and Jak didn't magically get 3x better defensively when he joined us from the Spurs, you put a player in a better situation, and they typically do better.

Gobert drtg/net :
19-20 106.6 / 6.2
20-21 100.9 / 15.9
21-22 104.5 / 9.6
22-23 110.8 / 0.4 (Traded to Twolves)
23-24 104.3 / 1.9

Did Gobert suddenly forget what defence was? No, his situation changed to a team with way worse defence and his stats were impacted. Utah was 13th, 3rd, 10th in DRTG. Wolves were 20th, 28th, 13th in those same years. Gobert joins, they go up to 10th and his defensive stats tank.

TLDR; Defensive stats in a vacuum make no sense.

[Tripod]

Do people forget that to get Turner, they wanted OG?

[tsherkin]

Do people forget that to get Turner, they wanted OG?

Is that bad? OG is a 3+D guy, 26 years old and in his 7th season. He is who he is, not some crazy-upside prospect. Like, he has value but we seem to be overvaluing him considerably.

[djsunyc]

Do people forget that to get Turner, they wanted OG?

Is that bad? OG is a 3+D guy, 26 years old and in his 7th season. He is who he is, not some crazy-upside prospect. Like, he has value but we seem to be overvaluing him considerably.

how about what gm's value? forget fans for a moment - that's all subjective.

but gm's like og - always in rumors for multiple picks and highly sought after by basically every team in the league. haven't heard any myles turner rumors the past few years - and not for multiple firsts.

[canada_dry]

I think you are grossly underselling how massive a 5% jump in TS% actually is. Even if we took that 55% and put him at that last year, that's 4% under league average for a PF. This year he's 4% ABOVE league average at the PF spot.

It's not just raw number, but it in relation to the rest of the league, this works out to practically an 8-ish% increase in TS%. That's otherworldly.

That's a massive jump for a player in his prime, but huge leaps aren't uncommon for second/third year players.

Scottie shot 52.4% TS% last year, and is now 61% flat. Find me another second or third year player making that level of efficiency jump. Not Tatum, not Luka, not Lebron, not even the king of efficiency himself Jokic did, he jumped 6%.

You don't seem to grasp how massive an 8.5% TS% increase is man.

I dont wanna be that guy but ...6 game sample size.

If he can be 55% or above with a much larger role thats still very very good. Amazing. But you might need to chill before mentioning these names and comparing them to 6.games of scottie...lol

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

[agkagk]

Couldnt have dreamed of better start for him.


Spoiler, hes number 1 atm

https://fantasy.espn.com/basketball/playerrater

[tdotrep2]

Couldnt have dreamed of better start for him.


Spoiler, hes number 1 atm

https://fantasy.espn.com/basketball/playerrater

he's got that baby jokic impact

[canada_dry]

Couldnt have dreamed of better start for him.


Spoiler, hes number 1 atm

https://fantasy.espn.com/basketball/playerrater

My opponent in fantasy this week has scottie.

I have booker and beal on my squad.

Its...not gone well.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

[Scase]

That's a massive jump for a player in his prime, but huge leaps aren't uncommon for second/third year players.

Scottie shot 52.4% TS% last year, and is now 61% flat. Find me another second or third year player making that level of efficiency jump. Not Tatum, not Luka, not Lebron, not even the king of efficiency himself Jokic did, he jumped 6%.

You don't seem to grasp how massive an 8.5% TS% increase is man.

I dont wanna be that guy but ...6 game sample size.

If he can be 55% or above with a much larger role thats still very very good. Amazing. But you might need to chill before mentioning these names and comparing them to 6.games of scottie...lol

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

I was pulling up those names because the argument was that an 8% TS% jump isn't unheard of for 2nd/3rd year players. I've already mentioned that yes, it's only 6 games, but I can't very well argue his entire season since it hasn't happened.

8% TS% jumps are not common no matter who. This will very likely come down, but until it does, it's a moot point.

[agkagk]

Couldnt have dreamed of better start for him.


Spoiler, hes number 1 atm

https://fantasy.espn.com/basketball/playerrater

he's got that baby jokic impact

Funny, my first thought was similar only replace baby jokic with “young lebron”

Fyi in his age 22 season lebron went to the finals with a bunch of scrubs.

But hey, fantasy wise, its pretty close!

[tsherkin]

Do people forget that to get Turner, they wanted OG?

Is that bad? OG is a 3+D guy, 26 years old and in his 7th season. He is who he is, not some crazy-upside prospect. Like, he has value but we seem to be overvaluing him considerably.

how about what gm's value? forget fans for a moment - that's all subjective.

but gm's like og - always in rumors for multiple picks and highly sought after by basically every team in the league. haven't heard any myles turner rumors the past few years - and not for multiple firsts.

When one of those trades is more than BS, then maybe that means something. Right now, we need certain things a lot more than we need OG jf we are actually aiming at winning.

[CPT]

I don't know what to make of the fact that Scottie is better than I expected and looks to have made a/the leap, yet the team is worse than I expected.

Maybe Scottie is playing 10% over his head (doesn't seem like it though?) and we got unlucky in a game or two (this much is certainly true).

We'll see how things even out, but I figured if Scottie plays at All-Star level we'll be a surprise top team in the East. It's like he's just switched roles and production with Siakam and the overall effect on the team is pretty minor.

[Scase]

I don't know what to make of the fact that Scottie is better than I expected and looks to have made a/the leap, yet the team is worse than I expected.

Maybe Scottie is playing 10% over his head (doesn't seem like it though?) and we got unlucky in a game or two (this much is certainly true).

We'll see how things even out, but I figured if Scottie plays at All-Star level we'll be a surprise top team in the East. It's like he's just switched roles and production with Siakam and the overall effect on the team is pretty minor.

No team goes anywhere with a roster this disjointed and only one player playing at that level. But taking age, ceiling, skill set, and seemingly improved efficiency into account, I think it bodes well for the team long term.

If Scottie remained the same, or only made a minor improvement this year, I'd be pretty concerned. But this development just makes Siakam even more expendable than he already was, hopefully we can use him to get Scottie a young running mate and start building this team right.