Tank World Order

[OakleyDokely]

4 key factors that determine whether tanking should be considered:

1. Injuries to core players
2. Aging core
3. Maxed out with no cap flexibility
4. Stuck in the #7-11 seeds for multiple seasons

If all or most of these apply, then I'd be in favor of tanking.

[ATLTimekeeper]

4 key factors that determine whether tanking should be considered:

1. Injuries to core players
2. Aging core
3. Maxed out with no cap flexibility
4. Stuck in the #7-11 seeds for multiple seasons

If all or most of these apply, then I'd be in favor of tanking.

Simple rule: If you're already out of the playoffs, it's better to finish the season worse.

[Danny1616]

4 key factors that determine whether tanking should be considered:

1. Injuries to core players
2. Aging core
3. Maxed out with no cap flexibility
4. Stuck in the #7-11 seeds for multiple seasons

If all or most of these apply, then I'd be in favor of tanking.

Yes, it's this simple.

[Danny1616]

It's interesting reading some posters wanting the Raptors to be the Cavaliers. Unless one of Garland/Sexton becomes a top 10 player (an extreme longshot), it's a team setup to be a 1st/2nd round loser at best which is exactly what the tankers here dont want.

If you want to emulate a different franchise, at least pick a successful one.

Ironic, isn't it?

Denver and Utah are two franchises with great young cores...but those teams never tanked.

I guess the Suns are a decent example, but ironically Booker was picked at 13. Ayton looks very promising. But even with getting Chris Paul they are only 8-7 and are probably a 2nd round team at best. Chris Paul doesn't have much time left as an elite player and Booker/Ayton isn't getting you a championship.

[Son Goku 25]

Tbh i wouldn't emulate any other franchise, I think we're elite and the best so long as we have Masai and Bobby.

The typical top teams with top talent is mainly due to location. I think for us to be able to win a ring playing in Toronto where supposedly no superstar wants to play should cement us as having the best FO.

I believe if given the chance, we can get back to being an elite team within the next 2-3 seasons.

[Johnny Bball]

The talk of fake wins and who was hurt is just as disingenuous as the rest. Never involves if we were hurt, if we should have or were likely to win. If you wanted to put any thought into that subject, you would probably just talk strength of schedule and note one simple fact

....we have the 3rd hardest left. But derp..fake win is better I guess than talking about the fact we are only 7-10 with one of the toughest schedules left.

Orlando is a bad team regardless of where they sit in the standings. Kings sucks, Hawks are mediocre but supposed to be. Mostly it’s on the road. 2-4 or maybe even 3-3 in the next six seems like where we should be. Anything different tells a lot you more about this team in either direction.

[MixxSRC]

If you want to have better odds at lottery pick it doesn't really matter who rested and who was injured. It doesn't really concern us how we got those losses. But if you want to analyze from perspective of how good team is then you can't just look at win and losses column.We already knew that net rating showed this team is not as bad as it's record. But that net rating is not exactly exciting

[Hero]

4 key factors that determine whether tanking should be considered:

1. Injuries to core players
2. Aging core
3. Maxed out with no cap flexibility
4. Stuck in the #7-11 seeds for multiple seasons

If all or most of these apply, then I'd be in favor of tanking.

Simple rule: If you're already out of the playoffs, it's better to finish the season worse.

This season is different also that we're playing in Tampa. One of the downsides to tanking is having fans attend and just see their team play poorly and lose game after game. This isn't the case this year.

[720]

It's interesting reading some posters wanting the Raptors to be the Cavaliers. Unless one of Garland/Sexton becomes a top 10 player (an extreme longshot), it's a team setup to be a 1st/2nd round loser at best which is exactly what the tankers here dont want.

If you want to emulate a different franchise, at least pick a successful one.

Ironic, isn't it?

Denver and Utah are two franchises with great young cores...but those teams never tanked.

I guess the Suns are a decent example, but ironically Booker was picked at 13. Ayton looks very promising. But even with getting Chris Paul they are only 8-7 and are probably a 2nd round team at best. Chris Paul doesn't have much time left as an elite player and Booker/Ayton isn't getting you a championship.

Utah and Denver are not winning championships with their currently constructed rosters. So idk why you brought up those two franchises.

[bape_lovers]

we are tied at 13th, and after the bucks game, unless a miracle happens, we will be 7-11 which will firmly at 13th. Unless you tell the wizards to start playing games, then Im not sure what else management can possible to do

We're gonna be stuck in no mans land unless management does something soon. Its clear this team is mediocre at best and gunning for that 7-8th seed first round exit.

[720]

4 key factors that determine whether tanking should be considered:

1. Injuries to core players
2. Aging core
3. Maxed out with no cap flexibility
4. Stuck in the #7-11 seeds for multiple seasons

If all or most of these apply, then I'd be in favor of tanking.

Your 4th factor. Why do we have to be mediocre for multiple seasons for it to be obvious that we should trade Lowry and Norman and go for a lower seed? Isn’t one season enough?

[Danny1616]

It's interesting reading some posters wanting the Raptors to be the Cavaliers. Unless one of Garland/Sexton becomes a top 10 player (an extreme longshot), it's a team setup to be a 1st/2nd round loser at best which is exactly what the tankers here dont want.

If you want to emulate a different franchise, at least pick a successful one.

Ironic, isn't it?

Denver and Utah are two franchises with great young cores...but those teams never tanked.

I guess the Suns are a decent example, but ironically Booker was picked at 13. Ayton looks very promising. But even with getting Chris Paul they are only 8-7 and are probably a 2nd round team at best. Chris Paul doesn't have much time left as an elite player and Booker/Ayton isn't getting you a championship.

Utah and Denver are not winning championships with their currently constructed rosters. So idk why you brought up those two franchises.

I don't know why TWO crew is bringing the Cavaliers as an example that tanking is working and that they have a future championship core, lol.

[PhilBlackson]

It's interesting reading some posters wanting the Raptors to be the Cavaliers. Unless one of Garland/Sexton becomes a top 10 player (an extreme longshot), it's a team setup to be a 1st/2nd round loser at best which is exactly what the tankers here dont want.

If you want to emulate a different franchise, at least pick a successful one.

Ironic, isn't it?

Denver and Utah are two franchises with great young cores...but those teams never tanked.

I guess the Suns are a decent example, but ironically Booker was picked at 13. Ayton looks very promising. But even with getting Chris Paul they are only 8-7 and are probably a 2nd round team at best. Chris Paul doesn't have much time left as an elite player and Booker/Ayton isn't getting you a championship.

1. Utah is a tough team but going nowhere but Mitchell who's arguably the face of their franchise was a lottery pick

2. DEN got Murray #7 and Porter #14, Jokic was a complete anomaly. If you wanna bank on the fluke luck of arguably the best passing bigman of all time somehow by miracle slipping to the 2nd rd then I would wish good luck but even that wouldn't cover the odds.

3. Every bit of PHX's young core are lottery picks lol (Ayton, Bridges, Booker, Johnson), Luka/KP lottery, Tatum/Brown lottery picks, Simmons/Embiid, Bam/Herro, etc etc....if you're gonna point out the other great teams keep in mind they're FA destinations which you're only kidding yourself if you think we are

Sometimes I'm not sure if anti-tankers are just really trying to sell themselves on the idea lol

[720]

Ironic, isn't it?

Denver and Utah are two franchises with great young cores...but those teams never tanked.

I guess the Suns are a decent example, but ironically Booker was picked at 13. Ayton looks very promising. But even with getting Chris Paul they are only 8-7 and are probably a 2nd round team at best. Chris Paul doesn't have much time left as an elite player and Booker/Ayton isn't getting you a championship.

Utah and Denver are not winning championships with their currently constructed rosters. So idk why you brought up those two franchises.

I don't know why TWO crew is bringing the Cavaliers as an example that tanking is working and that they have a future championship core, lol.

I didn’t.

I’m part of tWo that want to add a lotto pick to this existing core minus a couple players (Lowry and Norman).

I personally believe this Tampa season is trash and with COVID this is a throwaway season. We should use it as an opportunity to retool through this loaded draft.

[Danny1616]

It's interesting reading some posters wanting the Raptors to be the Cavaliers. Unless one of Garland/Sexton becomes a top 10 player (an extreme longshot), it's a team setup to be a 1st/2nd round loser at best which is exactly what the tankers here dont want.

If you want to emulate a different franchise, at least pick a successful one.

Ironic, isn't it?

Denver and Utah are two franchises with great young cores...but those teams never tanked.

I guess the Suns are a decent example, but ironically Booker was picked at 13. Ayton looks very promising. But even with getting Chris Paul they are only 8-7 and are probably a 2nd round team at best. Chris Paul doesn't have much time left as an elite player and Booker/Ayton isn't getting you a championship.

1. Utah is a tough team but going nowhere but Mitchell who's arguably the face of their franchise was a lottery pick

2. DEN got Murray #7 and Porter #14, Jokic was a complete anomaly. If you wanna bank on the fluke luck of arguably the best passing bigman of all time somehow by miracle slipping to the 2nd rd then I would wish good luck but even that wouldn't cover the odds.

3. Every bit of PHX's young core are lottery picks lol (Ayton, Bridges, Booker, Johnson), Luka/KP lottery, Tatum/Brown lottery picks, Simmons/Embiid, Bam/Herro, etc etc....if you're gonna point out the other great teams keep in mind they're FA destinations which you're only kidding yourself if you think we are

Sometimes I'm not sure if anti-tankers are just really trying to sell themselves on the idea lol

So are you telling me that Phoenix, Dallas, Boston, Philly or Miami have legitimate championship cores right now?

Also it's incredible that you failed to mention KP was traded to Dallas, Boston's lottery picks were largely acquired by cashing in on KG/Pierce, Simmons/Embiid have not made it past the 2nd round, and the Heat are a middle of the pack playoff team in the East.

Sometimes I'm not really sure if TWO can understand context or actually do proper research on what they are arguing.

[OakleyDokely]

4 key factors that determine whether tanking should be considered:

1. Injuries to core players
2. Aging core
3. Maxed out with no cap flexibility
4. Stuck in the #7-11 seeds for multiple seasons

If all or most of these apply, then I'd be in favor of tanking.

Your 4th factor. Why do we have to be mediocre for multiple seasons for it to be obvious that we should trade Lowry and Norman and go for a lower seed? Isn’t one season enough?

Trading Lowry and Norm doesnt put us close to the bottom though. Siakam/VV/OG/Boucher is still too good to finish near the bottom.

If you want a top 5 pick, you have to trade Lowry plus guys like VV, Siakam or OG as well.

[Danny1616]

Utah and Denver are not winning championships with their currently constructed rosters. So idk why you brought up those two franchises.

I don't know why TWO crew is bringing the Cavaliers as an example that tanking is working and that they have a future championship core, lol.

I didn’t.

I’m part of tWo that want to add a lotto pick to this existing core minus a couple players (Lowry and Norman).

I personally believe this Tampa season is trash and with COVID this is a throwaway season. We should use it as an opportunity to retool through this loaded draft.

And I would agree if we are clearly out the playoffs by the trade deadline. Trading and cashing in on Lowry and Norm is something I am not opposed to and I said that from the beginning. However, those trades might actually make us better this season if Masai is able to get a solid big in return in one of those deals.

The core of Siakam, OG, Fred, Boucher etc. are going to compete unfortunately for the TWO crew. That isn't a bad enough core to miss the playoffs.

[Pooh_Jeter]

This is like a bad game of telephone, except what was said is actually written out.

No one is saying the Cavs core is championship ready.

The point is that in year 3 of a rebuild they are just as good as the Raptors (if not better) who have a core that is "battle tested" and has some quality supporting pieces in Lowry, Norm and even Boucher.

To further this point, this has been far from ideal circumstances for the Cavs, but they have followed all the steps of a typical rebuild and are in a position where they have upside and flexibility.

For all this talk of patience, it's pretty funny that a team with a core of players all under 22 is suddenly a finished product and will do nothing of note. Give them a taste of the playoffs and see where they stand. Guess what, if it isn't a championship core they can make changes. You don't think Sexton, Garland, Okoro and Allen have value around the league?

[720]

4 key factors that determine whether tanking should be considered:

1. Injuries to core players
2. Aging core
3. Maxed out with no cap flexibility
4. Stuck in the #7-11 seeds for multiple seasons

If all or most of these apply, then I'd be in favor of tanking.

Your 4th factor. Why do we have to be mediocre for multiple seasons for it to be obvious that we should trade Lowry and Norman and go for a lower seed? Isn’t one season enough?

Trading Lowry and Norm doesnt put us close to the bottom though. Siakam/VV/OG/Boucher is still too good to finish near the bottom.

If you want a top 5 pick, you have to trade Lowry plus guys like VV, Siakam or OG as well.

I don’t think so. All we need is to land in the top 6 and we have a decent shot at top 4 in those spots with the new lottery odds.

We’re already bad now with Lowry and Norman.

Norman won us a couple games this season when he was a starter.

Trading Lowry makes sense for two reasons. One you get some kind of value back for him because I doubt he comes back after this year. Two you free up 35-40 minutes for our many young players.

[Danny1616]

This is like a bad game of telephone, except what was said is actually written out.

No one is saying the Cavs core is championship ready.

The point is that in year 3 of a rebuild they are just as good as the Raptors (if not better) who have a core that is "battle tested" and has some quality supporting pieces in Lowry, Norm and even Boucher.

To further this point, this has been far from ideal circumstances for the Cavs, but they have followed all the steps of a typical rebuild and are in a position where they have upside and flexibility.

For all this talk of patience, it's pretty funny that a team with a core of players all under 22 is suddenly a finished product and will do nothing of note. Give them a taste of the playoffs and see where they stand. Guess what, if it isn't a championship core they can make changes. You don't think Sexton, Garland, Okoro and Allen have value around the league?

You are going to base that from the first 15-20 games of the season were the Cavs are 8-9?

Last year the Suns started 6-3 and finished 34-39.

Orlando started the 2018 season 8-4 and finished 25-57.

Kings were 7-8 to start off last years season and finished 31-39.

Maybe wait until we are closer to the end of the season to evaluate which teams are actually good.

We started 2-8 and the Heat are now 6-10.

Are you going to say that the Cavs young core is already as good as the Heat's young core because that would be complete BS.

Dallas is 8-9 and the Grizzlies are 7-6 without Morant. Are the Grizz young core better than the Mavs young core?