Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!!

[Stromile12]

team Suggs vs team Mobley

I just want the draft to get here so we can just cheer for our pick thanks. Tired of these versus stuff. We're lucky to get whoever drops to us at 4, be it Green, Mobley or Suggs.

I agree. I am very thankful. I will be happy with whoever we select at 4, I just hope everyone else is as well.

[bon]

team Suggs vs team Mobley

Team.... we don't have a choice lol

If we had pick 2 or 3 it would be chaos here

[WuTang_OG]

Anyone expecting Mobley to be a center is going to be surprised. He's basically a wing player forced to be a center because he's a 7 footer. He has less strength than siakam and siakam had trouble playing center this season.

What? He projects as a 5 on defense in almost every way. Watching even one scouting video should make this obvious. What makes him a unique defensive prospect is ability to cover the perimeter as well, but his man AND weakside rim protection is classic center stuff.

Even offense most of his value comes out of that position as well (especially his jump hook, which is impossible to guard), but he's got a nifty midrange game and has shown good form from behind the arc. Of course he brings the obvious center stuff too (i.e. lob threat, camping the dunker's spot on some sets).

He moves like a 3, but he'll play the role of a 5 on both ends.

this is literally the boucher conundrum. He doesn't have the strength to hold his position defensively or offensively. He gets moved by smaller players all the time and he can't set screens because he's always looking to slip due to lack of physicality.
His offense is outside in rather than inside out so I don't think he'll be able to play center until he adds strength.

Watch on YouTube

He's 19. He's going to take 2-3 years just like Bosh did to fill out his body. Stop looking at Mobley as a finished product, he's no where near it but yet carries the highest upside in the draft.

[Dalek]

I caught this on Reddit but Sengun does not look small compared to Whiteside who is about 6'11 and a 7'6 wingspan.



WE also have to remember that Alperen is still 18 for another 12 days, so he can still further grow and fill out.

[bon]

I'd like to remind everyone that if Mobley was so generational, he would by vying for the first overall pick right now, not meandering between 3rd and 4th.

There has been historically a bias for bigs with the top pick in the NBA. It has always been this way. The best prospect in each of the next two draft at this very moment is Holmgren and Wembanyama. Mobley can't even get top 2 buzz.

Give me Suggs and call it a day. Utter nonsense trying to justify Mobley falling all the way to 4th and thinking we hit the jackpot. 1 team passing on him is good fortune, two is serendipity, three means there's likely a reason for it.

Bad take. Mobley has been in the conversation for top 2-3 pick all season (came into the year as the number 3 recruit). Cade has the prototypical archetype in the league which secures him at #1. The next two teams potentially passing on him is circumstantial/situational based on their roster. There's also actually a bias AGAINST bigs right now after the Bagley/Wiseman failures and Embiid/Jokic going out in the 2nd round. Those future draft classes aren't nearly as talented at the guard spot as this one.

Based on talent alone Mobley's a top 2 prospect because functionally speaking he doesn't have any outright "holes" in his game. If he drops to 4 it's because of the position he plays.

[EH15]

And why is he falling to 4 then?

Generational talents don't get inhibited by positions.

Literally all top 6 prospects have been ranked top 6 for the past year, dating back to high school.

[mademan]

And why is he falling to 4 then?

Generational talents don't get inhibited by positions.

ofc they do. Luka was a generational talent and he fell. It happens. ATM, NBA scouts believe guards>bigs. Theyve been wrong before

[EH15]

And why is he falling to 4 then?

Generational talents don't get inhibited by positions.

ofc they do. Luka was a generational talent and he fell. It happens. ATM, NBA scouts believe guards>bigs. Theyve been wrong before

That is historically not true though. And it literally proves my point on bigs. Ayton went before Luka. If I need to clarify, I will. Generational bigs do not fall. They do not slip unless there are massive injury concerns.

Maybe there is a changing of the guard, no pun intended. But as I inferred earler, Wemby and Holmgren indicate otherwise. Generational bigs will always be in vogue. The reason Mobley is falling is because he's not quote on quote generational. He can be Bosh at best. If you want to categorize Bosh as generational, then that's another topic.

[vulture]

What? He projects as a 5 on defense in almost every way. Watching even one scouting video should make this obvious. What makes him a unique defensive prospect is ability to cover the perimeter as well, but his man AND weakside rim protection is classic center stuff.

Even offense most of his value comes out of that position as well (especially his jump hook, which is impossible to guard), but he's got a nifty midrange game and has shown good form from behind the arc. Of course he brings the obvious center stuff too (i.e. lob threat, camping the dunker's spot on some sets).

He moves like a 3, but he'll play the role of a 5 on both ends.

this is literally the boucher conundrum. He doesn't have the strength to hold his position defensively or offensively. He gets moved by smaller players all the time and he can't set screens because he's always looking to slip due to lack of physicality.
His offense is outside in rather than inside out so I don't think he'll be able to play center until he adds strength.

Watch on YouTube

He's 19. He's going to take 2-3 years just like Bosh did to fill out his body. Stop looking at Mobley as a finished product, he's no where near it but yet carries the highest upside in the draft.

I'm not looking at him as a finished product at all, but we have to acknowledge that players who come into the NBA with huge weaknesses don't always improve.
I think this idea that ever top 5 pick is going to improve because they are young is a fallacy.

[niQ]

team Suggs vs team Mobley

Team.... we don't have a choice lol

If we had pick 2 or 3 it would be chaos here

Believe me, if we pick someone outside the Consensus Top 4, there will be chaos... and Shambles.

[bon]

And why is he falling to 4 then?

Generational talents don't get inhibited by positions.

Literally all top 6 prospects have been ranked top 6 for the past year, dating back to high school.

Well he hasn't fallen yet to be fair. If the evaluators in Cleveland and Houston (who don't have great draft records) want to pass on Mobley I'm not going to hold that against him.

[Psubs]

Detroit is playing with fire by going against the consensus. If Cade ends up better than Green they’ll never hear the end of it

Or if Green gets hurt. Killian Hays pretty much lost a year. Green's style of play leads him into greater peril than Cade.

[mademan]

And why is he falling to 4 then?

Generational talents don't get inhibited by positions.

ofc they do. Luka was a generational talent and he fell. It happens. ATM, NBA scouts believe guards>bigs. Theyve been wrong before

That is historically not true though. And it literally proves my point on bigs. Ayton went before Luka. If I need to clarify, I will. Generational bigs do not fall. They do not slip unless there are massive injury concerns.

Maybe there is a changing of the guard, no pun intended. But as I inferred earler, Wemby and Holmgren indicate otherwise. Generational bigs will always be in vogue. The reason Mobley is falling is because he's not quote on quote generational. He can be Bosh at best. If you want to categorize Bosh as generational, then that's another topic.

I dont think Mobley is a generational prospect and Ayton wasnt one either. Luka was, and the only knock against him is that he wasnt doing it against college players (lol) but instead was doing it in the 2nd best league in the world.

All i was saying is that scouts fall into dumb patterns. "This dude doesnt seem athletic so disregard that he dominated one of the best leagues in the world". "Guards are dominating in the playoffs today so let's take Green over Mobley". There's also job security at play here. If you take Green over Mobley and youre wrong, you can say you went with modern thinking. If you take Mobley over Green and youre wrong, youre out of a job cause youre a dinosaur who cant get with the times.

[OAKLEY_2]

If we’re getting Mobley then trade Siakam for the warriors picks (7 and 14). Mobley will need a couple years of polishing, it’s not like Suggs who can come in and contribute right away.

Our timelines change with drafting a big man over say Green or Suggs. Might as well add additional prospects and get younger until Mobley is ready to be the main guy.

Agreed but I think we could get more from the Pacers - even though laughed around the block when asking for Sabonis-Caris-13. Man this board pathetically under values Siakam. It is the tragedy of our pre champ culture. Too many years of ESPN Paul Piercing us and some around here lapping it all up. Bad reffing respect, no Christmas game, all-star snubs, the worst part is how badly undervalued Lowry is by fake sports news.

[OAKLEY_2]

In the end I am glad we threw the b.s. season saving our players health and getting the 4th pick. Maybe Raps should intentionally tank once every three years to get their due at the dessert table.

[rarefind]

Wait.. wait...wait.

We literally have posters saying Sengun is still going to fill out and grow and folks suggesting Mobley is done filling out?

lol... pick a narrative and apply it consistently guys. The Raptors (and nobody else) is taking Sengun at 4. I'm not opposed to him by any means but you'd be acquiring another pick to draft him.

[RapsFanInOhio]

There’s no point in starting the “Team” anyone because we’re going to draft who falls to us.

[WigginsNation]

Suggs>>>>>>>Mobley.
It would be sad if we lose out on a generational talent like Suggs. Mobley will not be anything special. He lacks drive and intensity. Not a huge fan of his

what specifically do you see in Suggs that makes him a generational talent? I see a player with a high floor, versatile in terms of being able to play PG/SG, and low probability of turning into a complete bust, but certainly not someone that looks destined to become a top 10 player that you build a team around.

Suggs’ traits/skills makeup and drive/attitude makes him an elite, generational talent IMO.

Let’s talk about some of his skills/traits, in no particular order:

1) Elite passer and ability to control the pace of the game. Very Jason Kiddesque. Suggs’ was an elite QB as a highschool football player, which reflects how intelligent he is and how he sees and approaches the game. He will bring that same brilliance as a pg, especially as a passer. He doesn’t waste dribbles and gets the ball in to the right hands at the right time. This is evident in the Zags games this year

2) Elite defense and defensive intensity. He’s just a dog on defense, and we can’t miss out on that. Imagine Gary Payton type defense! Yes that’s a lofty comparison, but Suggs’ gets after it defensively like Payton, racking up steals, making great reads and just brings an overall exceptional defensive awareness. He talks on D, and that’s huge in developing a top notch defensive team. Also a fantastic shot blocker for a pg!

3) Great rebounder! He kinda reminds me of Westbrook/Lowry in that he gets his nose dirty and grabs boards. His rebounding presence as a guard is HUGE given FVV isn’t that great a rebounder.

4) Elite athleticism and size for a pg will make him very tough to stop for smaller, less athletic guards. This kid was routinely throwing down windmills and tomahawks while in highschool. He’s so smart and knows exactly when to attack the rim. This kid is special

5) High percentage shot maker. Yes his 3pt percentage wasn’t the best but I guarantee you it’ll get better just by how hard he works. The important thing is his fg% was over 50%! He takes smart shots. Having a pg that is efficient is a rare commodity nowadays. This is HUGE!

6) He’s a flat out leader! He has that ‘it’ factor and just knows what he’s doing. He’s extremely confident, and combine that with his work ethic and unmatched competitiveness he will be a nightmare for opposing defenses

Our FO needs to do whatever it can to ensure we get him. If we sense he’ll be taken earlier, trade up! Hopefully that won’t be needed, but FO must ensure we get him, because he’s generational! The raps can be on of the top teams again with him leading the charge within the next few years IMO

[WuTang_OG]

this is literally the boucher conundrum. He doesn't have the strength to hold his position defensively or offensively. He gets moved by smaller players all the time and he can't set screens because he's always looking to slip due to lack of physicality.
His offense is outside in rather than inside out so I don't think he'll be able to play center until he adds strength.

Watch on YouTube

He's 19. He's going to take 2-3 years just like Bosh did to fill out his body. Stop looking at Mobley as a finished product, he's no where near it but yet carries the highest upside in the draft.

I'm not looking at him as a finished product at all, but we have to acknowledge that players who come into the NBA with huge weaknesses don't always improve.
I think this idea that ever top 5 pick is going to improve because they are young is a fallacy.

You clearly are, since you're ragging on his strength.

I don't think you understand what he is as a prospect because he literally does everything well offensively as a 5 and he just showed this past year that he is a game changer on the defensive end

[WigginsNation]

He's 19. He's going to take 2-3 years just like Bosh did to fill out his body. Stop looking at Mobley as a finished product, he's no where near it but yet carries the highest upside in the draft.

I'm not looking at him as a finished product at all, but we have to acknowledge that players who come into the NBA with huge weaknesses don't always improve.
I think this idea that ever top 5 pick is going to improve because they are young is a fallacy.

You clearly are, since you're ragging on his strength.

I don't think you understand what he is as a prospect because he literally does everything well offensively as a 5 and he just showed this past year that he is a game changer on the defensive end

The thing that scares me about Mobley are some reports of his passiveness and work ethic. That’s a red flag if true. Which makes one believe he’s not necessarily a safe pick. Suggs is. Cade is. That’s it IMO. Green could be an elite scorer, but I see Suggs as a much safer pick. Mobley has high bust potential simply due to possible passiveness and a lack of dog/alpha personality needed to be elite at the NBA level