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Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9

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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9 

Post#1381 » by tsherkin » Tue Jun 17, 2025 8:18 pm

HangTime wrote:I think it's because of their surroundings, they get breathing room.


Spacing helps people if they can hit shots, for sure. Being wide open didn't help Scottie above the arc, and he hasn't really been too interesting otherwise. I realise that we're likely to have him cut down on his volume ATB, which is good, but he isn't really an exciting player from a scoring perspective in any other regard. Those 10- and 12-footers on the left block are nice, as are the elbow and FT line shots, but you can't really build a good scoring game around just that. He's average ish in the RA, he doesn't get there enough, he's weak from the corner, he doesn't dominate the short game, etc, etc.

I think more we'll see his passing open up a little more than his scoring. He IS a good passer. This we've known since he was at Florida State, really. But he was pretty crap with light or no contest in general, so that's not super encouraging for improvement with different spacing. MAYBE life gets easier for him trying to get all the way to the rim, but he was getting slowed by 1 or 2 defenders, not like 3 collapsing in, so I doubt it.

If he's healthy, i do think he can be a 35-37% on 4-5 attempts.


Doubtful. I expect he isn't as crap as he was THIS year, of course. There at least we can agree.


I believe if you swapped Scottie into Cade's spot on Detroit, the Piston as a whole are better,


Christ no, they get even worse on offense with Scottie. 0% chance they improve with a guy whose a worse scorer and playmaker. The D wouldn't even matter that much.

You know how there's advanced stats,
This is like an advanced look. Something deeper that could explain a lot, when people on see "bad" numbers on the surface.


Nah, this remains just a weird look. It's like some 5G contrails conspiracy-level thinking, beyond the fact that Scottie was encouraged to shoot more 3s in a lost season. That part, at least, is sane and accurate.

Hopefully though, we'll be able to feed Scottie some easier looks, take advantage of his passing where possible (like in transition) and largely leave the scoring burden to better players, with better secondary and tertiary options in the offense with the other shooters who should be healthy.

I think OakleyDokley's hope is probably the closest to what we're going to get, something like 17-19 ppg on maybe -1% rTS, depending on how much we let him shoot and how healthy the rest of the team is, give or takes trades and stuff. And that's not great, but it'll be more tolerable with the other options clicking more regularly, anyhow.

We're going to have a problem unless BI is both healthy and playing more like his All-Star self. We're looking like a pretty tepid overall offense without any real efficient options besides Yak, Ochai (neither of whom are volume guys) and maybe BI. Mmm, give or take Jamison Battle, but he's like a 7 ppg C+S guy, so like Ochai, he matters only so much.

Much to wait and see, though. If BI plays 65 games, even as a league-average scorer, that will help a LOT to bring us at least out of the dumpster. Getting past that, though, we'll need to find a competitive advantage. We were 6th-worst inside the arc, 8th-worst from 3 (and 3rd-least attempts, 2nd-lowest 3PAr), crap at protecting the ball, 2nd-worst at the line, 6th-worst at GETTING to the line...

Like, we were brutal. Quick and BI being semi-healthy will help some with the 3pt shooting. Moving touches away from Barnes to Quickley will help, but will be kind of matched off by Ingram, who is also a 12-13% TOV kind of guy on average. We'll have to be careful with Shead, who is a bit of a turnover factory. But yeah, we really lack for shot-making everywhere. Ingram is typically worse than league average inside the arc, he's normally like a 95 2P+ guy, but well above average from 3 and generally very good at getting to the line: last 3 seasons of 40+ GP have had him over .300 FTr, which is excellent, and he has been about an 85% FT shooter his past 300 or so games.

And then there's just giving Scottie fewer shots, which should help a lot.

So, none of this is a pathway to elite offense, but it is potentially a pathway to average offense, which would actually still be a huge improvement. If we were a net-neutral offense, or even like a +0.2 offense, that'd be a huge deal for us if we continue to defend semi-competently. Like, if we're talking 15th offense and like 17th defense, we're flirting with .500 on the season, and any improvement beyond that is gravy.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9 

Post#1382 » by LoveMyRaps » Tue Jun 17, 2025 9:24 pm

No way did I just read that Pistons would be a better team with Scottie rather than Cade.

LMAO

They’d easily be a bottom 3 team in the league.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9 

Post#1383 » by TakeYourHeart » Tue Jun 17, 2025 11:22 pm

HangTime wrote:I think we're adding pieces to make him even more important/effective on offense, it's just not as a number 1 scorer on an average basis.

He's the true number 1 option, without having to be a Number 1 scorer.

It's like Haliburton and Pascal. Haliburton is the true #1 option, Pascal is just the leading scorer, who can do some "traditional" first option stuff.
They basically created an illusion.

I think Ingram presence can do a lot for Scottie, but also be the "traditional" first option.

If we trade for KD, the trio would unleash Point Scottie, into that Magic Johnson role "a true #1", and everyone will finally realize why Scottie sees himself as a PG, where 90% of people don't.

RJ and Pascal are on a similar wave length, put Pascal is just more refined in his play style.

Haliburton, Nash, Kidd, Magic, and Scottie are on similar wave length on offense as "true" first options.

Scottie right now is Sixers era Iguodala and he should look to become Warriors era Iguodala once surrounded by better players.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9 

Post#1384 » by tsherkin » Wed Jun 18, 2025 2:37 am

TakeYourHeart wrote:Scottie right now is Sixers era Iguodala and he should look to become Warriors era Iguodala once surrounded by better players.


TBF, 07-09, Iggy was actually efficient as a high-teens scorer. As his FT% declined, that started to teeter off, until he started to bomb more from 3 in Golden State. He's one of those guys who was mystifying like Westbrook, right? And it wasn't even disrupting his mid-FT rhythm/ritual that messed him up, he just... withered away in FT shooting ability, it was kind of weird.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9 

Post#1385 » by TimeForChange » Fri Jul 4, 2025 4:07 pm

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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9 

Post#1386 » by TheGeneral99 » Fri Jul 4, 2025 4:08 pm

tsherkin wrote:
TakeYourHeart wrote:Scottie right now is Sixers era Iguodala and he should look to become Warriors era Iguodala once surrounded by better players.


TBF, 07-09, Iggy was actually efficient as a high-teens scorer. As his FT% declined, that started to teeter off, until he started to bomb more from 3 in Golden State. He's one of those guys who was mystifying like Westbrook, right? And it wasn't even disrupting his mid-FT rhythm/ritual that messed him up, he just... withered away in FT shooting ability, it was kind of weird.


We'll see what happens.

In Scottie's all-star season he shot 48% from the field and 34% form 3.

If he can get closer to 50% from the field and back to 33-34% from 3, that would be excellent. Hopefully with a healthy Quickley and another dynamic iso scorer in Ingram he can have more room to operate.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9 

Post#1387 » by TheGeneral99 » Fri Jul 4, 2025 4:10 pm

TimeForChange wrote:
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Shows how good SGA is...55.5% on fadeaways...that's MJ and Kawhi level efficiency.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9 

Post#1388 » by tsherkin » Fri Jul 4, 2025 4:10 pm

TheGeneral99 wrote:We'll see what happens.

In Scottie's all-star season he shot 48% from the field and 34% form 3.

If he can get closer to 50% from the field and back to 33-34% from 3, that would be excellent. Hopefully with a healthy Quickley and another dynamic iso scorer in Ingram he can have more room to operate.


It would certainly be excellent if he could do that.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9 

Post#1389 » by Basketball_Jones » Fri Jul 4, 2025 4:10 pm

TimeForChange wrote:
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Yeah it’s his go to move now I was kind of hoping he’d lean more into it and he definitely has. I’d like to see more high level thinking from him offensively though like counters and just throw a damn pump fake or something.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9 

Post#1390 » by Duffman100 » Fri Jul 4, 2025 4:54 pm

Scottie really missed having Siakam and Fred no? As much as "pecking order" conversations, he really relied on them to take the attention.

Hopefully Ingram and a healthy Quickley can do that again.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9 

Post#1391 » by Buff » Fri Jul 4, 2025 5:08 pm

Duffman100 wrote:Scottie really missed having Siakam and Fred no? As much as "pecking order" conversations, he really relied on them to take the attention.

Hopefully Ingram and a healthy Quickley can do that again.


Like he missed being stuck in the corner. Which we hope don't happen again.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9 

Post#1392 » by Duffman100 » Fri Jul 4, 2025 5:11 pm

Buff wrote:
Duffman100 wrote:Scottie really missed having Siakam and Fred no? As much as "pecking order" conversations, he really relied on them to take the attention.

Hopefully Ingram and a healthy Quickley can do that again.


Like he missed being stuck in the corner. Which we hope don't happen again.


I think it's a bit of both.

Let's not having him stuck launching 3s in the corner but he's also shown he's not capable of being the main option.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9 

Post#1393 » by LoveMyRaps » Fri Jul 4, 2025 5:50 pm

TimeForChange wrote:
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Scottie is a guy that refuses to stick to his strengths and has terrible shot selection.

If he attempted less threes and more mid range jumpers, he’d be a lot more effective (and efficient).
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9 

Post#1394 » by TheGeneral99 » Fri Jul 4, 2025 6:24 pm

Duffman100 wrote:Scottie really missed having Siakam and Fred no? As much as "pecking order" conversations, he really relied on them to take the attention.

Hopefully Ingram and a healthy Quickley can do that again.


Ironically, people were complaining about the "pecking order" but it's not like Scottie's shot attempts have radically changed.

He took 13 shots a game in 2022 as a rookie on higher efficiency and now takes 16 shots a game on lower efficiency.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9 

Post#1395 » by tsherkin » Fri Jul 4, 2025 7:01 pm

LoveMyRaps wrote:
TimeForChange wrote:
Read on Twitter


Scottie is a guy that refuses to stick to his strengths and has terrible shot selection.

If he attempted less threes and more mid range jumpers, he’d be a lot more effective (and efficient).


"A lot more" is probably overstating the matter, but he'd likely be back at his 56%-ish TS range instead of 52%, that's for sure. He is not a good 3pt shooter at all, even when he's wide open, despite a couple good months in 2024.

I wish he would focus more on using what he does have: man has an awesome power frame, he could be very much better emphasizing that.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9 

Post#1396 » by Buff » Fri Jul 4, 2025 8:37 pm

Duffman100 wrote:
Buff wrote:
Duffman100 wrote:Scottie really missed having Siakam and Fred no? As much as "pecking order" conversations, he really relied on them to take the attention.

Hopefully Ingram and a healthy Quickley can do that again.


Like he missed being stuck in the corner. Which we hope don't happen again.


I think it's a bit of both.

Let's not having him stuck launching 3s in the corner but he's also shown he's not capable of being the main option.


Absolutely... I have made the point a bunch, he was not drafted to be a primary, he just did so well in his rookie year that got everyone's hopes up. To his credit he never went around calling it his team or any other diva-ish stuff, I think he knows who he is and will be ready to play his role.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9 

Post#1397 » by Buff » Fri Jul 4, 2025 8:39 pm

tsherkin wrote:
LoveMyRaps wrote:
TimeForChange wrote:
Read on Twitter


Scottie is a guy that refuses to stick to his strengths and has terrible shot selection.

If he attempted less threes and more mid range jumpers, he’d be a lot more effective (and efficient).


"A lot more" is probably overstating the matter, but he'd likely be back at his 56%-ish TS range instead of 52%, that's for sure. He is not a good 3pt shooter at all, even when he's wide open, despite a couple good months in 2024.

I wish he would focus more on using what he does have: man has an awesome power frame, he could be very much better emphasizing that.


I think we agree he was instructed to play the #1 and take bad shots. I have no doubt he will play his role and will excel at it.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9 

Post#1398 » by tsherkin » Fri Jul 4, 2025 8:44 pm

Buff wrote:I think we agree he was instructed to play the #1 and take bad shots. I have no doubt he will play his role and will excel at it.


I think "excel" is probably a big word. He was pretty mid even in his lower-volume form prior to this season. I agree that he was likely taking shots he wouldn't have at the urging of the coaching staff, but nothing about his first couple seasons really makes me excited about his overall potential as a scorer even in that scenario. I hope, of course, that he'll look better, I just don't have faith in it. I expect he'll give whatever he's got, and I'm excited for his defense.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9 

Post#1399 » by Buff » Fri Jul 4, 2025 8:49 pm

tsherkin wrote:
Buff wrote:I think we agree he was instructed to play the #1 and take bad shots. I have no doubt he will play his role and will excel at it.


I think "excel" is probably a big word. He was pretty mid even in his lower-volume form prior to this season. I agree that he was likely taking shots he wouldn't have at the urging of the coaching staff, but nothing about his first couple seasons really makes me excited about his overall potential as a scorer even in that scenario. I hope, of course, that he'll look better, I just don't have faith in it. I expect he'll give whatever he's got, and I'm excited for his defense.


He was rookie of the year. He can be better than that. I guess we have different definitions of the word. He also was an allstar, like... among all the stars...
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9 

Post#1400 » by tsherkin » Fri Jul 4, 2025 8:59 pm

Buff wrote:He was rookie of the year.


ROY is meaningless. It was a weak year, too. And he didn't win ROY because he was a good scorer, so it's also not salient to subject.

He can be better than that. I guess we have different definitions of the word. He also was an allstar, like... among all the stars...


Because people like counting stats, yes. And even then, he was a below-average-efficiency scorer. Great defender. Excellent rebounder. Pretty good playmaker, too. Lots to like about Scottie. Scoring, however, is very much not one of those things, that's all.

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