Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 2

[phailing101]

Man, Drummond looks like an animal now that he's getting PT. Just under 5 BPG and a huge double-double with 7 blocks the other night!

I say we start the Tank.

It's time for the "Suckin' for Drummond" campaign!!!

Park that beast beside Val and we get our roll on for years.

[JackedFinancier]

I mean, I am sure you make some decent observations, however I don't quite understand how you can say this. Hundreds of scouts have been following this kid since high school into college and all the way through the collegiate level for the past year. To this day, he still remains a projected top 3 pick (top pick in some instances). That is for a reason. His talent level puts him in a position such that creates significant value for him alone. The fact that he is putting that talent to good use on both the offensive and defensive end adds additional value as well.

Let's be honest, this kid is super talented. He is smooth, he is big, he is dynamic and he has a great defensive work ethic. At this point, that is something the Raptors could use desperately. I am all for drafting AD1, AD2 or even Jeremy Lamb, however if we have to choose, we better damn well take a good look at Barnes, because the duo of Derozan and Barnes is potentially, and I say this carefully, the most potent Small Forward/Shooting Guard scoring combination after those two studs in South Beach (Not counting Durant/Westbrook since Westbrook is a PG).

Except that Harrison is very dependent on his pg finding him. He plays off the ball, he cannot create for himself, he is a system guy. Despite his focus on the defensive side he is far from a lockdown defender. I just don't think he is a home run swing for us. Is he a good player sure, Is he the kind of player that will change a franchise, no definitely not. He is a robin type player when we should be looking for a lead guy.

I was a huge fan of his based on reading profiles and looking at news reports, heck I argued with James Naismith for pages on end defending Barnes, but the fact remains that his development from last year has been minimal. While Harrison would be a great pickup at 5-6 I wouldn't want him with a top 3 pick.

My top choice for now is Andre Drummond.


*Alot of people are saying that the so called experts have him as a top pick. While I acknowledge that fact, I don't consider it a valid reason for personal rankings. The experts have been wrong before, anyone remember marvin williams? The guy that some reports have Barnes compared to?

Yeah. I agree that he needs a PG who facilitates within the motions of a system. However, I don't necessarily think that is a bad thing. That is, if Casey implements such a system. Because with Demar, he also plays better within a system (coming off screens, pick and pop and slashing). Having those two guys under a system that promotes that would be pretty effective. Problem is, I don't know if Bayless is the PG who can reinforce that type of play. Although, he is young and does have some serious potential as a scorer and leader.

And yes, experts have been wrong before. But in an uncertain world, certainty is the rarest of commodities. Scouts provide us with judgement when we are lacking it. So they are our best source of seeking out such talent.

[JackedFinancier]

Let's be honest, this kid is super talented. He is smooth, he is big, he is dynamic and he has a great defensive work ethic. At this point, that is something the Raptors could use desperately. I am all for drafting AD1, AD2 or even Jeremy Lamb, however if we have to choose, we better damn well take a good look at Barnes,

I still like Barnes but it's pretty obvious that he lacks TRUE elite potential due to his ball handling...I've said it several times but to me he looks like he will be a hyrbid of Gay/Deng which is a damn good player however our team NEEDS franchise talent especially in all likelyhood this will be the closest we'll be to another top 5 pick in the next 5 years pending some CHI like luck cuz the additions of Jonas and this pick should atleast put us back fighting to make the playoffs.

Also no great young PG will be drawn to TO as a FA destination unless it seems we have an elite player and all the right pieces to become more with them joining.

because the duo of Derozan and Barnes is potentially, and I say this carefully, the most potent Small Forward/Shooting Guard scoring combination after those two studs in South Beach (Not counting Durant/Westbrook since Westbrook is a PG).

Well HARDEN/Durant immediately nix them being 2nd best....

But I would even say that Allen/Pierce, Bryant/Odom push that further into the rearview. There's also Manu/Jefferson, Johnson/Smith (when at SF), Fields/Melo, Butler/Marion....then in the same draft the Clippers will add a SF to play alongside Eric Gordon...but atleast yes DeRozan/Barnes could be up there with these other names.

The bigger problem is BOTH of them can't create for themselves or other on the team.

Yeah. I certainly agree with your last point. Both of them cannot create for themselves. But as I just said above, it can be done. It just takes the right PG and the right type of offense. I mean, lets compare two scenarios.

Scenario: Your team is down by 1 with 10 seconds left in the 4th quarter. You have the ball after calling a time out and drawing up a play.

You can either:

Scenario 1: "Miami Heat Style of Play" - Have your lanky, soft, princess of a SF (Chris Bosh) inbound the ball into Lebron James at the top of the three point line. Lebron holds the ball for 6 seconds and makes his move thereafter. All four other teammates clear out on an isolation play, so Lebron is by himself, mano eh mano, left for dead and with the fate of his team's outcome in his hands.

Scenario 2: "Options, other than being very volatile securities, are always better than no options" (Hope some of you get that one lol) - Have your SF inbound the ball. PF and C clear up space as the PG runs up from the paint up to the three point line. PG takes ball. Multiple screens are set for Harrison Barnes and Demar Derozan. Both of which run opposite cuts and come up to two different areas on the floor. As a defender, you can double one, but you can't double the other, one will be open or at least have a good shot at getting open. Harrison/Demar basically act as a hedge to one another and in the end, one will most likely have a jump shot or if not (as a result of a double team), will be able to pass it up.

Scenario 2 is much more team oriented, involving obviously more coaching skill than anything. Based on what I said, clearly I am not a coach lol, but I am just trying to provide a visual.

My point is that you don't necessarily need a guy who "can create for himself" if you have the right pieces. In this scenario, I think Harrison and Demar compliment each other, only if we have the proper PG to put them in a position to compliment each other. That is very important.

[Reignman]

I'm going to reiterate, if everything goes the way we hope then we're likely to get a very nice player at the draft. This draft has talent. My main concern though, I really want to get Kendall Marshall with a later pick.

That's the type of guy that can make everything come together. He can play with Demar, he can play the PnR game with the bigs and his defense is pretty good. Form is good so there's hope for his J but with the amount of fire power we should have in the next year or two, I don't think we're going to need our PG to put up too many points.

[ty123]

I like Derozan Miller
over Derozan Barnes

[dagger]

I'm going to reiterate, if everything goes the way we hope then we're likely to get a very nice player at the draft. This draft has talent. My main concern though, I really want to get Kendall Marshall with a later pick.

That's the type of guy that can make everything come together. He can play with Demar, he can play the PnR game with the bigs and his defense is pretty good. Form is good so there's hope for his J but with the amount of fire power we should have in the next year or two, I don't think we're going to need our PG to put up too many points.

His defence is pretty good?

Right now, he's such a weak on the ball defender he makes Jose look like DPOY

I guess you didn't watch the UNLV game yesterday.

[5DOM]

I like his passing abilities, but there's nothing else that he does well. He can't defend, he doesn't handle the ball particularly well, and he can't shoot.

[Rapsfan07]

I like Kendall Marshall but I think he will be a pylon in the NBA defensively. We've have about 7 seasons of that in Calderon so far. I like him but I feel much better about targeting a FA PG.

As for the draft, here is my board so far:

1. Andre Drummond
2. Anthony Davis
3. Quincy Miller
4. Harrison Barnes

I've got Miller ahead of Barnes because in years past, the best player on a championship team can create for himself. Do the research if you don't believe it. It's unlikely we'll land in the Top 2 so much most realistic choice is Miller.

[dagger]

It's unlikely we'll land in the Top 2 so much most realistic choice is Miller.

We had the third worst record in the league last year, so I don't know why you'd say Top 2 in unrealistic. How is this team better than last year? Our first round pick is playing in Europe. A couple of marginal contributors off the bench are gone, the GM says we're not going to be FA players. If we improve it's only going to be modest, and Dwayne Casey has to perform miracles just to achieve that.

[fredericklove]

Man, Drummond looks like an animal now that he's getting PT. Just under 5 BPG and a huge double-double with 7 blocks the other night!

I say we start the Tank.

It's time for the "Suckin' for Drummond" campaign!!!

Park that beast beside Val and we get our roll on for years.

Don't let the stat fool ya, he can go on a short stretch of flashy defensive highlight but also go on a long stretch of "what the hell am I doing on on the court?" lost mode.

[Rapsfan07]

It's unlikely we'll land in the Top 2 so much most realistic choice is Miller.

We had the third worst record in the league last year, so I don't know why you'd say Top 2 in unrealistic. How is this team better than last year? Our first round pick is playing in Europe. A couple of marginal contributors off the bench are gone, the GM says we're not going to be FA players. If we improve it's only going to be modest, and Dwayne Casey has to perform miracles just to achieve that.

We're using a lottery system that in if you look in the past, rarely lands teams in spots that corresponds with their win/lose record. While the pick will be in the same neighbourhood, it's not exact. Last year with us, Minnesota and Cleveland is a good example. You can never be sure.

[BigBaller]

Man, Drummond looks like an animal now that he's getting PT. Just under 5 BPG and a huge double-double with 7 blocks the other night!

I say we start the Tank.

It's time for the "Suckin' for Drummond" campaign!!!

Park that beast beside Val and we get our roll on for years.

DRUMMOND at C. DIRTY!

[BigBaller]

I'm going to reiterate, if everything goes the way we hope then we're likely to get a very nice player at the draft. This draft has talent. My main concern though, I really want to get Kendall Marshall with a later pick.

That's the type of guy that can make everything come together. He can play with Demar, he can play the PnR game with the bigs and his defense is pretty good. Form is good so there's hope for his J but with the amount of fire power we should have in the next year or two, I don't think we're going to need our PG to put up too many points.

You don't draft PG with top 5 pick.

[Rapcity_11]

I'm going to reiterate, if everything goes the way we hope then we're likely to get a very nice player at the draft. This draft has talent. My main concern though, I really want to get Kendall Marshall with a later pick.

That's the type of guy that can make everything come together. He can play with Demar, he can play the PnR game with the bigs and his defense is pretty good. Form is good so there's hope for his J but with the amount of fire power we should have in the next year or two, I don't think we're going to need our PG to put up too many points.

You don't draft PG with top 5 pick.

You wouldn't draft a Wall, Rose, Paul or D-Will with a top 5 pick?

[BigBaller]

It's unlikely we'll land in the Top 2 so much most realistic choice is Miller.

We had the third worst record in the league last year, so I don't know why you'd say Top 2 in unrealistic. How is this team better than last year? Our first round pick is playing in Europe. A couple of marginal contributors off the bench are gone, the GM says we're not going to be FA players. If we improve it's only going to be modest, and Dwayne Casey has to perform miracles just to achieve that.

We're using a lottery system that in if you look in the past, rarely lands teams in spots that corresponds with their win/lose record. While the pick will be in the same neighbourhood, it's not exact. Last year with us, Minnesota and Cleveland is a good example. You can never be sure.

Outside top 2 = Q. Miller, top 2 = Drummond or Davis. Simple as that.

[BigBaller]

I'm going to reiterate, if everything goes the way we hope then we're likely to get a very nice player at the draft. This draft has talent. My main concern though, I really want to get Kendall Marshall with a later pick.

That's the type of guy that can make everything come together. He can play with Demar, he can play the PnR game with the bigs and his defense is pretty good. Form is good so there's hope for his J but with the amount of fire power we should have in the next year or two, I don't think we're going to need our PG to put up too many points.

You don't draft PG with top 5 pick.

You wouldn't draft a Wall, Rose, Paul or D-Will with a top 5 pick?

There is none of that in 2012 NBA Draft.

[RaptorReloaded]

Man, Drummond looks like an animal now that he's getting PT. Just under 5 BPG and a huge double-double with 7 blocks the other night!

I say we start the Tank.

It's time for the "Suckin' for Drummond" campaign!!!

Park that beast beside Val and we get our roll on for years.

DRUMMOND at C. DIRTY!

Even Better Val at C and Drummond at PF with Davis and Amir backing them up

We might have the best front court in the league down the road if it were to happen. A true twin towers with great young backups.

[Rapcity_11]

I'm pretty confused as to why anybody would prefer Drummond over Davis at PF. I mean, seriously?

[BigBaller]

Man, Drummond looks like an animal now that he's getting PT. Just under 5 BPG and a huge double-double with 7 blocks the other night!

I say we start the Tank.

It's time for the "Suckin' for Drummond" campaign!!!

Park that beast beside Val and we get our roll on for years.

DRUMMOND at C. DIRTY!

Even Better Val at C and Drummond at PF with Davis and Amir backing them up

We might have the best front court in the league down the road if it were to happen. A true twin towers with great young backups.

I rather have Drummond at C, so many good PFs in the league. Not too many good Cs. Drummond will dominate them. Valacunias at PF will be able to handle great offensive PFs. TWIN TOWERS 2.0

[BigBaller]

I'm pretty confused as to why anybody would prefer Drummond over Davis at PF. I mean, seriously?

You prefer Ed Davis than Andre Drummond. LOL you're dumb.