Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!!

[AbC?]

I can't get over how rudimentary Suggs' handle is. I can't remember a top guard prospect coming in with less of a bag than him. We don't even see flashes, I've gone over so much of his full game highlights and he just never does anything beyond a simple crossover and in/out dribble. Hardly even dribbles the ball through his legs. Consistent through HS/College/International play.

No shake, no deception, purely north-south. Effective at the college level but I wonder how it'll translate against better defenders where you need to generate an advantage to force the defense to react.

Expectations need to be tempered with him IMO. He's simply not going to be a high usage, primary scorer. He's no Wade/Mitchell/Roy - you watch their college highlights and they are doing what they did there what they end up doing in the NBA. Suggs hasn't shown any of that kind of self-creation ability.

If you're expecting him to be Lowry/Haliburton/Holiday/Lonzo/Conley type you'll be good. That's a range of players stylistically, but in terms of how the help teams. Playmaking, defense and secondary scoring.

[Odie29]

I can't get over how rudimentary Suggs' handle is. I can't remember a top guard prospect coming in with less of a bag than him. We don't even see flashes, I've gone over so much of his full game highlights and he just never does anything beyond a simple crossover and in/out dribble. Hardly even dribbles the ball through his legs. Consistent through HS/College/International play.

No shake, no deception, purely north-south. Effective at the college level but I wonder how it'll translate against better defenders where you need to generate an advantage to force the defense to react.

Expectations need to be tempered with him IMO. He's simply not going to be a high usage, primary scorer. He's no Wade/Mitchell/Roy - you watch their college highlights and they are doing what they did there what they end up doing in the NBA. Suggs hasn't shown any of that kind of self-creation ability.

If you're expecting him to be Lowry/Haliburton/Holiday/Lonzo/Conley type you'll be good. That's a range of players stylistically, but in terms of how the help teams. Playmaking, defense and secondary scoring.

Not saying you are wrong but 2 key points:

1. He just turned 20 and was a dual sport athlete until last year so it's worth giving him some time to develop before writing off anything
2. We have the 4th pick. I don't think anyone is saying to pass on Mobley and Green for him but in the end its not our choice.

Is there another prospect outside the obvious top 3 you like more than Suggs? And if so does he have any weaknesses to his game?

[MavCarter]

People are really going to beat this intangibles and dual sport and leadership etc thing to death every time someone watches actual full length tape on suggs and realize he isn't that impressive, huh?

[NotMyKawhi]

People are really going to beat this intangibles and dual sport and leadership etc thing to death every time someone watches actual full length tape on suggs and realize he isn't that impressive, huh?

You like Kuminga?

I like Kuminga. Suggs won't fail, he'll be solid, but Kuminga has more potential imo

Kuminga, OG and Pascal front court might work in todays nba

Kuminga rebounds at a high level.

[NotMyKawhi]

I'm hearing Cade for Sexton, Mobley and a pick might happen.

Pistons really really like Mobley.

[vulture]

People are really going to beat this intangibles and dual sport and leadership etc thing to death every time someone watches actual full length tape on suggs and realize he isn't that impressive, huh?

What makes you an expert that anyone needs to listen to?

[AbC?]

Not saying you are wrong but 2 key points:

1. He just turned 20 and was a dual sport athlete until last year so it's worth giving him some time to develop before writing off anything
2. We have the 4th pick. I don't think anyone is saying to pass on Mobley and Green for him but in the end its not our choice.

Is there another prospect outside the obvious top 3 you like more than Suggs? And if so does he have any weaknesses to his game?

I've seen the 2-sport thing being touted as an argument for some untapped reservoir of potential. Personally I don't buy it, but I understand the rationale. This isn't an Embiid or Siakam situation, he's been playing basketball since he was 5 and been fully entrenched in the AAU circuit all through highschool. I do think playing dual sports helps athletes though - first through muscular development/injury prevention and also through processing the game at a higher level. It's evident in Suggs and how his QB background helps him read the court.

For your second question, I really just want to find a way to move up or somehow land Green/Mobley. Obviously unrealistic but I just value those guys a full tier above Suggs. I don't disagree that the best use of the 4th is still taking him. Maybe a trade down? I haven't done enough research on guys below the top 4 to argue for them with any confidence.

[WuTang_CMB]

I'm hearing Cade for Sexton, Mobley and a pick might happen.

Pistons really really like Mobley.

Please dont start again.

[LoveMyRaps]

I can't get over how rudimentary Suggs' handle is. I can't remember a top guard prospect coming in with less of a bag than him. We don't even see flashes, I've gone over so much of his full game highlights and he just never does anything beyond a simple crossover and in/out dribble. Hardly even dribbles the ball through his legs. Consistent through HS/College/International play.

No shake, no deception, purely north-south. Effective at the college level but I wonder how it'll translate against better defenders where you need to generate an advantage to force the defense to react.

Expectations need to be tempered with him IMO. He's simply not going to be a high usage, primary scorer. He's no Wade/Mitchell/Roy - you watch their college highlights and they are doing what they did there what they end up doing in the NBA. Suggs hasn't shown any of that kind of self-creation ability.

If you're expecting him to be Lowry/Haliburton/Holiday/Lonzo/Conley type you'll be good. That's a range of players stylistically, but in terms of how the help teams. Playmaking, defense and secondary scoring.

Roy didn't have any flashy handles either, Suggs and him are very similar. You can't just make conclusions like ''he has no bag'' based off of 5min youtube highlights. Suggs is the most complete player in this draft.

[MavCarter]

People are really going to beat this intangibles and dual sport and leadership etc thing to death every time someone watches actual full length tape on suggs and realize he isn't that impressive, huh?

You like Kuminga?

I like Kuminga. Suggs won't fail, he'll be solid, but Kuminga has more potential imo

Kuminga, OG and Pascal front court might work in todays nba

Kuminga rebounds at a high level.

I honestly change my mind everyday but i wouldnt mind taking kuminga. In my opinion if both pan out potential 2 way wings that can score are much more difficult to find that high iq point guards that can defend and shoot the 3. At 18 his biggest weaknesses of shooting and shot selection aren't the end of the world either, he's shown he's capable of creating which is something we don't have outside of pascal. Idk kuminga in our development system intrigues me

[WuTang_CMB]

4th ain't high enough to get Mobley i'd say give up that dream

Not a dream at all if HOU takes Green which things are moving to. Only leaves CLE who's a wild card and are going to re-up Allen.

[MavCarter]

People are really going to beat this intangibles and dual sport and leadership etc thing to death every time someone watches actual full length tape on suggs and realize he isn't that impressive, huh?

What makes you an expert that anyone needs to listen to?

When did i claim to be an expert? Lmao im just simply making an observation

[NotMyKawhi]

People are really going to beat this intangibles and dual sport and leadership etc thing to death every time someone watches actual full length tape on suggs and realize he isn't that impressive, huh?

What makes you an expert that anyone needs to listen to?

dual sport doesn't mean much. The intangibles, that's code for a solid teammate, not superstar. Leadership? Sure he's a leader but he also played w a Senior who will go in the lottery this year too. And another senior Timmie who was solid. Another later 1st round draft pick Junior.

Nembard has experience. The whole team was stacked. And in HS he played w the #1 player in the country. It's not like he's lead bad teams to championships

Gonzaga was favoured to win last year all season, going into the season, they didn't win. This isn't a mircle story

[MavCarter]

Tears already streaming at the thought of not taking suggs. God damn draft night in here is going to be ugly (potentially)

[Odie29]

Not saying you are wrong but 2 key points:

1. He just turned 20 and was a dual sport athlete until last year so it's worth giving him some time to develop before writing off anything
2. We have the 4th pick. I don't think anyone is saying to pass on Mobley and Green for him but in the end its not our choice.

Is there another prospect outside the obvious top 3 you like more than Suggs? And if so does he have any weaknesses to his game?

I've seen the 2-sport thing being touted as an argument for some untapped reservoir of potential. Personally I don't buy it, but I understand the rationale. This isn't an Embiid or Siakam situation, he's been playing basketball since he was 5 and been fully entrenched in the AAU circuit all through highschool. I do think playing dual sports helps athletes though - first through muscular development/injury prevention and also through processing the game at a higher level. It's evident in Suggs and how his QB background helps him read the court.

For your second question, I really just want to find a way to move up or somehow land Green/Mobley. Obviously unrealistic but I just value those guys a full tier above Suggs. I don't disagree that the best use of the 4th is still taking him. Maybe a trade down? I haven't done enough research on guys below the top 4 to argue for them with any confidence.

I don't disagree with your points they are fair. But outside the dual sport element he is 20 years old and has room for upside with the right amount of work. But you may be right in that ball handling will never be a huge strength of his and holds him back from becoming the list of players you gave.

To my 2nd point yes we have the 4th pick. If the teams above us don't entertain trade calls there's nothing left to do. Trade down may be a possibility with OKC GS and ORL owning multiple picks behind us. You do need to have some players in mind in order to believe that's a good idea however.

[MavCarter]

Not saying you are wrong but 2 key points:

1. He just turned 20 and was a dual sport athlete until last year so it's worth giving him some time to develop before writing off anything
2. We have the 4th pick. I don't think anyone is saying to pass on Mobley and Green for him but in the end its not our choice.

Is there another prospect outside the obvious top 3 you like more than Suggs? And if so does he have any weaknesses to his game?

I've seen the 2-sport thing being touted as an argument for some untapped reservoir of potential. Personally I don't buy it, but I understand the rationale. This isn't an Embiid or Siakam situation, he's been playing basketball since he was 5 and been fully entrenched in the AAU circuit all through highschool. I do think playing dual sports helps athletes though - first through muscular development/injury prevention and also through processing the game at a higher level. It's evident in Suggs and how his QB background helps him read the court.

For your second question, I really just want to find a way to move up or somehow land Green/Mobley. Obviously unrealistic but I just value those guys a full tier above Suggs. I don't disagree that the best use of the 4th is still taking him. Maybe a trade down? I haven't done enough research on guys below the top 4 to argue for them with any confidence.

I don't disagree with your points they are fair. But outside the dual sport element he is 20 years old and has room for upside with the right amount of work. But you may be right in that ball handling will never be a huge strength of his and holds him back from becoming the list of players you gave.

To my 2nd point yes we have the 4th pick. If the teams above us don't entertain trade calls there's nothing left to do. Trade down may be a possibility with OKC GS and ORL owning multiple picks behind us. You do need to have some players in mind in order to believe that's a good idea however.

Doesn't this pertain to all the 18/19 year old prospects in play?

[Jadoogar]

I can't get over how rudimentary Suggs' handle is. I can't remember a top guard prospect coming in with less of a bag than him. We don't even see flashes, I've gone over so much of his full game highlights and he just never does anything beyond a simple crossover and in/out dribble. Hardly even dribbles the ball through his legs. Consistent through HS/College/International play.

No shake, no deception, purely north-south. Effective at the college level but I wonder how it'll translate against better defenders where you need to generate an advantage to force the defense to react.

Expectations need to be tempered with him IMO. He's simply not going to be a high usage, primary scorer. He's no Wade/Mitchell/Roy - you watch their college highlights and they are doing what they did there what they end up doing in the NBA. Suggs hasn't shown any of that kind of self-creation ability.

If you're expecting him to be Lowry/Haliburton/Holiday/Lonzo/Conley type you'll be good. That's a range of players stylistically, but in terms of how the help teams. Playmaking, defense and secondary scoring.

Honestly, that's a really good outcome for a #4 pick. The last few # 4 picks have been De'andre Hunter, JJJ, Josh Jackson, Dragan Bender, Porzingis, Aaron Gordon, Cody Zeller, Dion Waiter, Tristan Thompson and Wesley Johnson.
How many of these players will have a career as good as Lowry/Holiday/Conley?

[CanadaB-Ball]

I can't get over how rudimentary Suggs' handle is. I can't remember a top guard prospect coming in with less of a bag than him. We don't even see flashes, I've gone over so much of his full game highlights and he just never does anything beyond a simple crossover and in/out dribble. Hardly even dribbles the ball through his legs. Consistent through HS/College/International play.

No shake, no deception, purely north-south. Effective at the college level but I wonder how it'll translate against better defenders where you need to generate an advantage to force the defense to react.

Expectations need to be tempered with him IMO. He's simply not going to be a high usage, primary scorer. He's no Wade/Mitchell/Roy - you watch their college highlights and they are doing what they did there what they end up doing in the NBA. Suggs hasn't shown any of that kind of self-creation ability.

If you're expecting him to be Lowry/Haliburton/Holiday/Lonzo/Conley type you'll be good. That's a range of players stylistically, but in terms of how the help teams. Playmaking, defense and secondary scoring.

Roy didn't have any flashy handles either, Suggs and him are very similar. You can't just make conclusions like ''he has no bag'' based off of 5min youtube highlights. Suggs is the most complete player in this draft.

I hope I’m wrong, but I fear that you’re going to be disappointed with what Suggs becomes. In fact, I’m not convinced the Raptors will take him at 4, even if he’s the last of the ‘big 4’ left.

[NotMyKawhi]

I think what Mobley did for USC was just as impressive as what Suggs did for Gonzaga. Suggs just had big moments.


Mobley lead a bad team far in the tournment.

[WuTang_CMB]

Tolzman said they liked the players at 7-8 .. I bet it was Moody/Barnes

and he also said the public perception of where guys are slotted does not align with their thinking (in reference to getting guys to workout for them and they r passing) .. Raps proably wanting to workout Moody, Keon, Bouknight etc