Why The Raptors Should Explore Trading Jakob Poeltl To The Knicks

[sidsid]

Except Jak is a better screener, finisher, passer and defender. Things that will help the youth improve.

I love JV with all my heart, one of my favs of all time. But I think the extra 9 million in salary here is better spent on a center who does more to help the young guys develop.

I've said it before, if having Jak here is the linchpin to these guys developing well, or poorly. We should blow it up right now and trade everything.

No teams fortunes should ever be at grave risk due to a player of his calibre.

This isn't a discussion of Jak vs JV. Jak is better, period. But Jak has more trade value, and that is something we need over whatever marginal developmental improvements people think he provides.

It's not linchpin, but he is better for their development. And at this point, I'd rather have the guy that helps more than the guy that doesn't. The win +/- isn't really THAT much different, maybe a couple of wins Jak's way. And his trade value isn't so outstanding that were bringing back much.

One of the reasons I wanted Olynyk on the team is because he provides everything we need for development in a rebuild at C.

- a player who will be positionally sound on both O and D
- a player who will space the floor, move the ball and allow Barnes to play in the middle of the floor where he's best
- have Barnes work on his screening now that Jak is out of the way
- make Barnes work even more in help D due to KOs awful defense at the position.

And we'll lose a lot of games, while gaining future assets from the Jak trade. It's just a win all around. That's just what rebuilding teams do. Utah's traded half their team twice in the last couple years. We can afford to lose a vet who doesn't fit

[Shakril]

I've said it before, if having Jak here is the linchpin to these guys developing well, or poorly. We should blow it up right now and trade everything.

No teams fortunes should ever be at grave risk due to a player of his calibre.

This isn't a discussion of Jak vs JV. Jak is better, period. But Jak has more trade value, and that is something we need over whatever marginal developmental improvements people think he provides.

It's not linchpin, but he is better for their development. And at this point, I'd rather have the guy that helps more than the guy that doesn't. The win +/- isn't really THAT much different, maybe a couple of wins Jak's way. And his trade value isn't so outstanding that were bringing back much.

One of the reasons I wanted Olynyk on the team is because he provides everything we need for development in a rebuild at C.

- a player who will be positionally sound on both O and D
- a player who will space the floor, move the ball and allow Barnes to play in the middle of the floor where he's best
- have Barnes work on his screening now that Jak is out of the way
- make Barnes work even more in help D due to KOs awful defense at the position.

And we'll lose a lot of games, while gaining future assets from the Jak trade. It's just a win all around. That's just what rebuilding teams do. Utah's traded half their team twice in the last couple years. We can afford to lose a vet who doesn't fit

- His D is non existent and his offense is so-so
- he doesnt create any real space cause he isnt exactly a treat from 3 and all others means creating space he isnt actually godd at that
- you can work on your screening while poeltl is there too. Its not like poeltl is the only one allowed to screen
- you are contradicting your own point and he can work on his help d also when poeltl is one the floor


Rebuilding means, you start with young players and develop them and and pieces when you get the chance.
It does not mean you lose on purpose.
Raps already have a head start with Barnes and the others. And it is proven that veteran presence helps the development.

[AceKobe]

This team at full strength with Yak was killing it, I feel like folks on here are just afraid to see that again because their egos around being wrong about the trade will be bruised.

I'm sure when we limp to a crappy record next year, you will be bringing this same energy, right? And totally not moving the goalposts, right?

I'm concerned we will be a Play-in team with Jakob. Trading him allows us to do two main things:
- Tank properly to get a high pick (Top 7 vs Top 14)
- Maximize assets from the trade (2 Firsts, maybe First + Young Player)
- Open up more playing time for our young players (Secondary reason)

[Shakril]

This team at full strength with Yak was killing it, I feel like folks on here are just afraid to see that again because their egos around being wrong about the trade will be bruised.

trust me, that's not a concern at all.

Its that why you are running scared that Poeltl could ruin your wet dream of a tank? Cause he has no impact?

You people dont even recognize when you contradict yourselfs.

So i agree with Nebuchadnezzar, ego and sturbbornness is the main reason this discussing even happens.

Every day i come onto the board, i see another shitpost about Jakob. You guys are obsessed with hating him.


On another note:

The season Ended because of Jakob's injury in January. People tend to forget how bad it was without him.

[ArthurVandelay]

This team at full strength with Yak was killing it, I feel like folks on here are just afraid to see that again because their egos around being wrong about the trade will be bruised.

trust me, that's not a concern at all.

Its that why you are running scared that Poeltl could ruin your wet dream of a tank? Cause he has no impact?

You people dont even recognize when you contradict yourselfs.

So i agree with Nebuchadnezzar, ego and sturbbornness is the main reason this discussing even happens.

Every day i come onto the board, i see another shitpost about Jakob. You guys are obsessed with hating him.


On another note:

The season Ended because of Jakob's injury in January. People tend to forget how bad it was without him.

These posts are so divisive and confrontational

The situation with Poeltl is not black and white.

I think he’s a good centre and recognize his value, I certainly don’t hate him.

But if the goal is to play a 5-out offense (as it appears to be) with spacing movement and cutting, Poeltl doesn’t fit the big picture. No hate, straight reality.

[DG88]

I'm currently not in favour of trading Jakob unless for the right price and getting a young C back. At the end of the day you need a competent C for our players to develop.

[Scase]

This team at full strength with Yak was killing it, I feel like folks on here are just afraid to see that again because their egos around being wrong about the trade will be bruised.

I'm sure when we limp to a crappy record next year, you will be bringing this same energy, right? And totally not moving the goalposts, right?

I'm concerned we will be a Play-in team with Jakob. Trading him allows us to do two main things:
- Tank properly to get a high pick (Top 7 vs Top 14)
- Maximize assets from the trade (2 Firsts, maybe First + Young Player)
- Open up more playing time for our young players (Secondary reason)

This here is it for me. The issue isn't Jak the player/person, it's the impacts on the long term. JV was signed to the wiz for 10/yr, he is a competent centre we could have had instead, we dont need a C of Jaks calibre, we just need someone who isn't useless. Jak is like buying a 1500$ iPhone when you cant afford food.

Nothing inherently wrong with the purchase, but priorities are all out of whack.

[ArthurVandelay]

I'm sure when we limp to a crappy record next year, you will be bringing this same energy, right? And totally not moving the goalposts, right?

I'm concerned we will be a Play-in team with Jakob. Trading him allows us to do two main things:
- Tank properly to get a high pick (Top 7 vs Top 14)
- Maximize assets from the trade (2 Firsts, maybe First + Young Player)
- Open up more playing time for our young players (Secondary reason)

This here is it for me. The issue isn't Jak the player/person, it's the impacts on the long term. JV was signed to the wiz for 10/yr, he is a competent centre we could have had instead, we dont need a C of Jaks calibre, we just need someone who isn't useless. Jak is like buying a 1500$ iPhone when you cant afford food.

Nothing inherently wrong with the purchase, but priorities are all out of whack.

OKC has 3 guys going to be on a max contract at some point. In other words they have the talent to build around. This summer they added elite role players.

Raptors have put cart before the horse.

Get the talent in ‘25 and maybe ‘26

[Scase]

I'm concerned we will be a Play-in team with Jakob. Trading him allows us to do two main things:
- Tank properly to get a high pick (Top 7 vs Top 14)
- Maximize assets from the trade (2 Firsts, maybe First + Young Player)
- Open up more playing time for our young players (Secondary reason)

This here is it for me. The issue isn't Jak the player/person, it's the impacts on the long term. JV was signed to the wiz for 10/yr, he is a competent centre we could have had instead, we dont need a C of Jaks calibre, we just need someone who isn't useless. Jak is like buying a 1500$ iPhone when you cant afford food.

Nothing inherently wrong with the purchase, but priorities are all out of whack.

OKC has 3 guys going to be on a max contract at some point. In other words they have the talent to build around. This summer they added elite role players.

Raptors have put cart before the horse.

Get the talent in ‘25 and maybe ‘26

This is the problem this FO has shown to repeat over and over. Constantly trying to fill role player positions, when you don't even have a primary on your team. And I'm pretty sure it got worse after swinging an extremely unlikely, and lucky trade for Kawhi. Brilliant trade, and excellent result (obviously), but I have a sneaking suspicion it made them think they could do it again by amassing a bunch of ok to good talent, and live in the land of "just one more piece".

Something that due to the new CBA is practically impossible.

[CazOnReal]

Jakob Poeltl is not the difference between us being a play-in team and not

I seriously implore you: Look at the absolute dregs that are the East Conference bottom feeders and tell me how taxing Poeltl is the difference between being 9/10 and out of that race. Unless the Hornets with a healthy LaMelo also get a healthy Mark Williams, I do not see a world where any of the bottom 6-7 teams are in that race. And again - that's just the teams in the East. The Spurs and Blazers will probably still be bad,enough to be in the race for a spot in that below-Play-In lottery spot.

Again: Don't rule out Poeltl being traded if the offer is too stupid to pass up but you don't trade him for the sake of it. Especially if you don't get back a center prospect for him which, given the list of likely suitors, seems unlikely.

[sidsid]

It's not linchpin, but he is better for their development. And at this point, I'd rather have the guy that helps more than the guy that doesn't. The win +/- isn't really THAT much different, maybe a couple of wins Jak's way. And his trade value isn't so outstanding that were bringing back much.

One of the reasons I wanted Olynyk on the team is because he provides everything we need for development in a rebuild at C.

- a player who will be positionally sound on both O and D
- a player who will space the floor, move the ball and allow Barnes to play in the middle of the floor where he's best
- have Barnes work on his screening now that Jak is out of the way
- make Barnes work even more in help D due to KOs awful defense at the position.

And we'll lose a lot of games, while gaining future assets from the Jak trade. It's just a win all around. That's just what rebuilding teams do. Utah's traded half their team twice in the last couple years. We can afford to lose a vet who doesn't fit

- His D is non existent and his offense is so-so
- he doesnt create any real space cause he isnt exactly a treat from 3 and all others means creating space he isnt actually godd at that
- you can work on your screening while poeltl is there too. Its not like poeltl is the only one allowed to screen
- you are contradicting your own point and he can work on his help d also when poeltl is one the floor


Rebuilding means, you start with young players and develop them and and pieces when you get the chance.
It does not mean you lose on purpose.
Raps already have a head start with Barnes and the others. And it is proven that veteran presence helps the development.

By positionally sound I mean he knows where to be on the floor. There are multiple ways to be a bad defender and the worst one is freelancing players that break your schemes for a team that's trying to develop. Kelly is a true vet in the sense that he brings structure, he just can't play a lick of good defense. And his shot is good enough that he's respected by the D. That's all that matters scheme wise for development purposes. We're not looking for wins, just solid fits and Kelly is one of the best we've had since the Gasol days.

[Scase]

Jakob Poeltl is not the difference between us being a play-in team and not

I seriously implore you: Look at the absolute dregs that are the East Conference bottom feeders and tell me how taxing Poeltl is the difference between being 9/10 and out of that race. Unless the Hornets with a healthy LaMelo also get a healthy Mark Williams, I do not see a world where any of the bottom 6-7 teams are in that race. And again - that's just the teams in the East. The Spurs and Blazers will probably still be bad,enough to be in the race for a spot in that below-Play-In lottery spot.

Again: Don't rule out Poeltl being traded if the offer is too stupid to pass up but you don't trade him for the sake of it. Especially if you don't get back a center prospect for him which, given the list of likely suitors, seems unlikely.

I posted it previously in this thread, but if you take a look at our w/l record last year vs the exact teams we think are the bottom dwellers, we are squeezing out maybe another 2 or 3 wins compared to last year. We are not a good team, we aren't going to be series sweeping them, we will be roughly where we were last year, while the good teams vastly outnumber the bad teams, and they have gotten better. We went 11-40 against above .500 teams last year, and 14-17 against sub .500 teams. We definitely aren't likely to get any more wins against good teams, if anything we drop a couple more. As for bad teams, at best some of them go from 2-2 last year, to 3-1, but it's not like we are skyrocketing up the charts.

The problem is, that the bottom of the league is likely going to be bunched together rather tightly and the extra couple wins we'd end up with due to having Jak, is probably going to be the difference between a 5/6th finish, and an 8-10 finish. Not worth the loss of lotto odds.

No one thinks Jak is the difference between a .500 team and a 20 win team. Well maybe a couple posters, but they also think this team is easily a 41+ win team.

[Shakril]

Jakob Poeltl is not the difference between us being a play-in team and not

I seriously implore you: Look at the absolute dregs that are the East Conference bottom feeders and tell me how taxing Poeltl is the difference between being 9/10 and out of that race. Unless the Hornets with a healthy LaMelo also get a healthy Mark Williams, I do not see a world where any of the bottom 6-7 teams are in that race. And again - that's just the teams in the East. The Spurs and Blazers will probably still be bad,enough to be in the race for a spot in that below-Play-In lottery spot.

Again: Don't rule out Poeltl being traded if the offer is too stupid to pass up but you don't trade him for the sake of it. Especially if you don't get back a center prospect for him which, given the list of likely suitors, seems unlikely.

I posted it previously in this thread, but if you take a look at our w/l record last year vs the exact teams we think are the bottom dwellers, we are squeezing out maybe another 2 or 3 wins compared to last year. We are not a good team, we aren't going to be series sweeping them, we will be roughly where we were last year, while the good teams vastly outnumber the bad teams, and they have gotten better. We went 11-40 against above .500 teams last year, and 14-17 against sub .500 teams. We definitely aren't likely to get any more wins against good teams, if anything we drop a couple more. As for bad teams, at best some of them go from 2-2 last year, to 3-1, but it's not like we are skyrocketing up the charts.

The problem is, that the bottom of the league is likely going to be bunched together rather tightly and the extra couple wins we'd end up with due to having Jak, is probably going to be the difference between a 5/6th finish, and an 8-10 finish. Not worth the loss of lotto odds.

No one thinks Jak is the difference between a .500 team and a 20 win team. Well maybe a couple posters, but they also think this team is easily a 41+ win team.

No 41 win would be shocking, but 35 rather realistic. So i believe that poeltl is worth at least 5 - 8 wins over 82 games. The 25 wins we had last year, most of erm wer made before Poeltl was injured in january. After the OG trade we actually had a good record although i am not sure how much Pascals presence influenced it. So even if am beeing negative, i dont see us winning less than 30 games unless we actively tank. And even then we might be 10th place in the east, cause the other teams are even worse.

I am saying, let them play hard and play for wins. That may look like a lost year in they eyes of many, but they will learn how to compete and those wins will mean something, and from the losses they can learn. If play bad on purposes you cant learn much, cause you never really tried.

I believe that in 2 (2026/2027) years they can be a 50 win team if they start competing this year and develop. This would be year 3 of 4 in the timeline the raptors have, which would be the perfect time to rise.
Ofc you need either Poeltl for it or someone that can replace him at equal value.

But hey, maybe Poeltls injuries were so severe that his level of play drops and he isnt a difference maker anymore.

[Los_29]

This here is it for me. The issue isn't Jak the player/person, it's the impacts on the long term. JV was signed to the wiz for 10/yr, he is a competent centre we could have had instead, we dont need a C of Jaks calibre, we just need someone who isn't useless. Jak is like buying a 1500$ iPhone when you cant afford food.

Nothing inherently wrong with the purchase, but priorities are all out of whack.

OKC has 3 guys going to be on a max contract at some point. In other words they have the talent to build around. This summer they added elite role players.

Raptors have put cart before the horse.

Get the talent in ‘25 and maybe ‘26

This is the problem this FO has shown to repeat over and over. Constantly trying to fill role player positions, when you don't even have a primary on your team. And I'm pretty sure it got worse after swinging an extremely unlikely, and lucky trade for Kawhi. Brilliant trade, and excellent result (obviously), but I have a sneaking suspicion it made them think they could do it again by amassing a bunch of ok to good talent, and live in the land of "just one more piece".

Something that due to the new CBA is practically impossible.

Giannis, KD and Dame are three players that Masai had been heavily interested in. They had serious offers for KD and Dame. Many of us thought that was a mistake simply because they didn’t have the depth to accommodate such a move. You never stop developing players. Our development is what ultimately led to our championship. We had a stacked team. No team has managed to assemble a more stacked team since.

[Psubs]

I'm sure when we limp to a crappy record next year, you will be bringing this same energy, right? And totally not moving the goalposts, right?

I'm concerned we will be a Play-in team with Jakob. Trading him allows us to do two main things:
- Tank properly to get a high pick (Top 7 vs Top 14)
- Maximize assets from the trade (2 Firsts, maybe First + Young Player)
- Open up more playing time for our young players (Secondary reason)

This here is it for me. The issue isn't Jak the player/person, it's the impacts on the long term. JV was signed to the wiz for 10/yr, he is a competent centre we could have had instead, we dont need a C of Jaks calibre, we just need someone who isn't useless. Jak is like buying a 1500$ iPhone when you cant afford food.

Nothing inherently wrong with the purchase, but priorities are all out of whack.

Ya, it's like Utah trading Gobert and still improving with Kessler and a boatload of assets.

Poeltl for Mitchell Robinson and something? They pretty much emptied the draft chest for Bridges.

[Johnny Bball]

Put a pin in it. Knicks are above the first apron now and don't have any bad salary to trade for Poeltl and to match Poeltl's salary.

[bobbyp3588]

I'm concerned we will be a Play-in team with Jakob. Trading him allows us to do two main things:
- Tank properly to get a high pick (Top 7 vs Top 14)
- Maximize assets from the trade (2 Firsts, maybe First + Young Player)
- Open up more playing time for our young players (Secondary reason)

This here is it for me. The issue isn't Jak the player/person, it's the impacts on the long term. JV was signed to the wiz for 10/yr, he is a competent centre we could have had instead, we dont need a C of Jaks calibre, we just need someone who isn't useless. Jak is like buying a 1500$ iPhone when you cant afford food.

Nothing inherently wrong with the purchase, but priorities are all out of whack.

Ya, it's like Utah trading Gobert and still improving with Kessler and a boatload of assets.

Poeltl for Mitchell Robinson and something? They pretty much emptied the draft chest for Bridges.

Randle is the odd man out in NY. We have no need for him but maybe there is a third team to make this all work…

Toronto Out: Yak, Brown, Boucher
Toronto In: Robinson, ???

NYK Out: Randle, Robinson
NYK In: Yak, Brown, ???

Third Team Out : ????
Third Team In: Randle, Boucher?, ???

Any team come to mind?

[Scase]

After the OG trade we actually had a good record although i am not sure how much Pascals presence influenced it.

Do you even watch the games? We went 10-19 after the OG trade up until Scotties injury. That is not a "good record" by any definition.

I am saying, let them play hard and play for wins. That may look like a lost year in they eyes of many, but they will learn how to compete and those wins will mean something, and from the losses they can learn. If play bad on purposes you cant learn much, cause you never really tried.

Yeah, just like all that magical "playoff experience" that never does anything

I believe that in 2 (2026/2027) years they can be a 50 win team if they start competing this year and develop. This would be year 3 of 4 in the timeline the raptors have, which would be the perfect time to rise.

This is just utter delusion. You think that this team, by the merits of internal growth alone, this roster will be a 50 win team in 2 years? You might wanna go brush up on what EWA is.

[Scase]

This here is it for me. The issue isn't Jak the player/person, it's the impacts on the long term. JV was signed to the wiz for 10/yr, he is a competent centre we could have had instead, we dont need a C of Jaks calibre, we just need someone who isn't useless. Jak is like buying a 1500$ iPhone when you cant afford food.

Nothing inherently wrong with the purchase, but priorities are all out of whack.

Ya, it's like Utah trading Gobert and still improving with Kessler and a boatload of assets.

Poeltl for Mitchell Robinson and something? They pretty much emptied the draft chest for Bridges.

Randle is the odd man out in NY. We have no need for him but maybe there is a third team to make this all work…

Toronto Out: Yak, Brown, Boucher
Toronto In: Robinson, ???

NYK Out: Randle, Robinson
NYK In: Yak, Brown, ???

Third Team Out : ????
Third Team In: Randle, Boucher?, ???

Any team come to mind?

Maybe GSW, LAL, LAC for some more playoff strength. DET/HOU if they want to pick up some wins, it seems like DET wants to get out of the tank, HOU has been looking to do the same.

[dagger]

Jakob Poeltl is not the difference between us being a play-in team and not

I seriously implore you: Look at the absolute dregs that are the East Conference bottom feeders and tell me how taxing Poeltl is the difference between being 9/10 and out of that race. Unless the Hornets with a healthy LaMelo also get a healthy Mark Williams, I do not see a world where any of the bottom 6-7 teams are in that race. And again - that's just the teams in the East. The Spurs and Blazers will probably still be bad,enough to be in the race for a spot in that below-Play-In lottery spot.

Again: Don't rule out Poeltl being traded if the offer is too stupid to pass up but you don't trade him for the sake of it. Especially if you don't get back a center prospect for him which, given the list of likely suitors, seems unlikely.

I posted it previously in this thread, but if you take a look at our w/l record last year vs the exact teams we think are the bottom dwellers, we are squeezing out maybe another 2 or 3 wins compared to last year. We are not a good team, we aren't going to be series sweeping them, we will be roughly where we were last year, while the good teams vastly outnumber the bad teams, and they have gotten better. We went 11-40 against above .500 teams last year, and 14-17 against sub .500 teams. We definitely aren't likely to get any more wins against good teams, if anything we drop a couple more. As for bad teams, at best some of them go from 2-2 last year, to 3-1, but it's not like we are skyrocketing up the charts.

The problem is, that the bottom of the league is likely going to be bunched together rather tightly and the extra couple wins we'd end up with due to having Jak, is probably going to be the difference between a 5/6th finish, and an 8-10 finish. Not worth the loss of lotto odds.

No one thinks Jak is the difference between a .500 team and a 20 win team. Well maybe a couple posters, but they also think this team is easily a 41+ win team.

I'm not for trading Poeltl yet except if there is an overpay, and I am certainly not for giving him away - i.e. discarding his value just for a few more lottery balls. Those who want to trade him now for a bunch of bananas are in contradiction - either he has value enough to add wins, in which case he has a use going forward if only for a timely trade (which I believe is correct) or he is a throwaway, in which case trading him not only doesn't improve our lottery odds, it might mean being saddled with a bad contract beyond the coming season. And of course, drafting from the 10th position in a good draft can yield you a very good pickup like Derrick Lively. And even a top 5 pick in a really good draft can yield you a helluva a player, but not necessarily that superstar we all crave. Scottie's draft for example. Scottie, Cade, Mobley, Green, Suggs, Wagner, Kuminga, Sengun... they all look like very good players, potential all-stars, but none yet screams top 5 superstar. Wagner at 8 might be just as good long-term as Green, the #2 pick.