Tank World Order V (Rise of the Phoenix)

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Let's say Barnes regresses, instead of rocketing up stats wise this year. Well, that means he doesn't have a high ceiling. It also means we're probably not building around him. Unless the goal in the most mid team possible. He needs to be a future top five for this to make sense. Otherwise, wtf are we wasting out time.

It's a make or break season, the refusal to do this on his rookie contract is on the GM. A lot of these contracts look toxic if it goes bad.

If Barnes regresses we are going to be forced into a full rebuild because we’ll suck. We’ll be stuck with his contract but that won’t matter much because we’ll be tanking. We can clear cap space for salary dumps by getting rid of Poeltl/Barrett/Olynyk or maybe IQ (depending on how he looks).

If Barnes regresses our salary situation won’t matter because we’ll be in the tank for 2-3 years. We should still be able to carve out moderate cap
space for salary dumps while the young guys develop and we ride our Barnes deal.

Yup, but the upside is we'd probably be getting a real franchise player in the draft.

[Brinbe]

The whole point is grabbing a high pick this year, adding on with two more picks next season and having a sht-ton of possible capspace to add on to this core in the summer of 2026. And then by 2027, that's when they'll be expecting to make some real noise and it'd make sense as Scottie will be firmly in his prime and hopefully surrounded by other star talent.

It doesn't really matter what Scottie does at this point, whether he's an allstar or superstar. Regardless he wouldn't be able to win by himself and no other star/superstar player in this league does anything without having a high level number two and even three/four. Scottie has IQ/RJ and they're not on that level and probably never will be.

[ConSarnit]

First bolded, we both know that Darko isn't going to Nurse this team and play them like Nurse ran them through the mud for wins in the past. So essentially you're implying that even if our core took another leap, .500 isn't happening, which is by itself a fair point.

2nd bolded, yes let's please not have a Yak trade 2.0. I do think Chomche is a dark horse candidate himself on raising the ceiling for the team to a 50 win one, his actual ceiling is hard to tell tbh. His ceiling ranges from out of the league to an All NBA player.

Lastly, as for Atlanta, I just think they are one of the more desperate teams atm, and have no incentive to tank as they screwed up with trading with SAS much more than we did. I doubt Memphis is in a rush to get rid of Edey.

#1 Yeah pretty much, that's why I'm not super high on this core, and really just on Scottie, and to a lesser degree Gradey. RJ/IQ realistically don't have a massive amount of growth they can make, so unless all 3 of them absolutely smash into their ceilings, .500 on this team is impossible, barring any massive injuries/horrible tank jobs from other teams. Kind of how I think if we make the play in this year, it's more harm than good, as we are likely going to make it with a noticeably losing record. Defaulting into the play in is not success.

#2 Same, the last thing this team needs is throwing away more draft picks for mid tier players. Chomche I would skew closer to being out of the league, but that's more so based off his draft position and not a lot of information to go on about him. Physically speaking he looks great, his motor is nuts, but he looked aimless AF in the summer league. Completely understandable as to why, and that's why I think (mentioned this in his thread) that his success is all hinging on the mental aspect. He's barely been playing organized basketball for 2 years, going against guys who have been playing it since they were in single digits is a lot of ground to make up. But apparently he picks up on things quickly and he's a sponge, so hopefully we get lucky.

#3 That's a fair point, but it also means they don't have much to work with for a trade either. They have an unprotected 25 FRP from LAL, and a top 12 25 protected pick from the Kings. Both of which will likely be in the 15-20 range, so not a lot of value there. And if my memory of the rule is correct, they could only trade one of those, and after that they have a mediocre to bad 27 FRP or their own 28 FRP. And those wouldn't be of much use to us since our rebuild hinges on getting players now, since we've wasted 3 years of Scotties rookie contract, and IQ/RJ are both on their second contracts. We don't have the luxury of time, so we'd need prospects or good picks in the next year or two. Not sure where that comes from though.

The playin in the East last year was just pathetic, Atlanta made the playin winning 36 games, if anything else we just have to hope the ping pong balls bounce our way like theirs did. Would be nice. And i'm not even asking for the #1 pick, just a good one.

I think I read somewhere that Chomche played goalie in Soccer, that ability to cover space and swat balls at the rim will probably keep him in the league. I think his floor is Robert Williams from the defensive end. In terms offense, there was a play in Summer League where he got the rebound, turned on the jets and missed the dunk. He's basically a much younger, taller Siakam when you get down to it (not saying he's going to progress like Siakam but you get my point).

To your point #3, if we are trading Yak, and want to seriously tank for this year (can't out tank WAS/BLK though), I don't think we can be too greedy. Greed and waiting on the perfect deal kind of got us to the position we are in. Imo, any FRP + filler will do.

You think his floor is a guy who made 2nd team all defense? That basically makes his floor a top 5 defensive C in the league. This seems like extreme optimism.

[Clutch0z24]

Let's say Barnes regresses, instead of rocketing up stats wise this year. Well, that means he doesn't have a high ceiling. It also means we're probably not building around him. Unless the goal is the most mid team possible. He needs to be a future top five for this to make sense. Otherwise, wtf are we wasting out time.

It's a make or break season, the refusal to do this on his rookie contract is on the GM. A lot of these contracts look toxic if it goes bad.

This is a team sport...As good as 1 player is he can't win anything by himself....No top 5 player was able to win on their own...Now at 23 years old its way to early to say its a make it or break it season for him....Its just insane how the lack of patience is with many posters here....Its literally year 1 of this rebuild and he has 6 years under contract still....We need to add one of these franchise altering talents this draft...

This team needs a influx of talent on it...Barnes will not become a top 5 player this season....He will be good but not MVP level good....The team will be bad....Most likely pull the plug midway and tank for a high pick if i were to predict....Barnes performance has little to do with the teams record this year because i think FO goal is the draft right now...

Contracts maybe big for our main players right now but they are not untradeable contracts and the money has to go to someone...

[Vampirate]

#1 Yeah pretty much, that's why I'm not super high on this core, and really just on Scottie, and to a lesser degree Gradey. RJ/IQ realistically don't have a massive amount of growth they can make, so unless all 3 of them absolutely smash into their ceilings, .500 on this team is impossible, barring any massive injuries/horrible tank jobs from other teams. Kind of how I think if we make the play in this year, it's more harm than good, as we are likely going to make it with a noticeably losing record. Defaulting into the play in is not success.

#2 Same, the last thing this team needs is throwing away more draft picks for mid tier players. Chomche I would skew closer to being out of the league, but that's more so based off his draft position and not a lot of information to go on about him. Physically speaking he looks great, his motor is nuts, but he looked aimless AF in the summer league. Completely understandable as to why, and that's why I think (mentioned this in his thread) that his success is all hinging on the mental aspect. He's barely been playing organized basketball for 2 years, going against guys who have been playing it since they were in single digits is a lot of ground to make up. But apparently he picks up on things quickly and he's a sponge, so hopefully we get lucky.

#3 That's a fair point, but it also means they don't have much to work with for a trade either. They have an unprotected 25 FRP from LAL, and a top 12 25 protected pick from the Kings. Both of which will likely be in the 15-20 range, so not a lot of value there. And if my memory of the rule is correct, they could only trade one of those, and after that they have a mediocre to bad 27 FRP or their own 28 FRP. And those wouldn't be of much use to us since our rebuild hinges on getting players now, since we've wasted 3 years of Scotties rookie contract, and IQ/RJ are both on their second contracts. We don't have the luxury of time, so we'd need prospects or good picks in the next year or two. Not sure where that comes from though.

The playin in the East last year was just pathetic, Atlanta made the playin winning 36 games, if anything else we just have to hope the ping pong balls bounce our way like theirs did. Would be nice. And i'm not even asking for the #1 pick, just a good one.

I think I read somewhere that Chomche played goalie in Soccer, that ability to cover space and swat balls at the rim will probably keep him in the league. I think his floor is Robert Williams from the defensive end. In terms offense, there was a play in Summer League where he got the rebound, turned on the jets and missed the dunk. He's basically a much younger, taller Siakam when you get down to it (not saying he's going to progress like Siakam but you get my point).

To your point #3, if we are trading Yak, and want to seriously tank for this year (can't out tank WAS/BLK though), I don't think we can be too greedy. Greed and waiting on the perfect deal kind of got us to the position we are in. Imo, any FRP + filler will do.

You think his floor is a guy who made 2nd team all defense? That basically makes his floor a top 5 defensive C in the league. This seems like extreme optimism.

A top 5 defensive big in the league isn't necessarily a top 5 big in the league. If his offense never arises it means he's a defensive specialist C.

Keep in mind Robert Williams is a 6"9 athletic freak who came in at 20 years old, Chomche is a 6"10 athletic freak coming in at 18 years old. They are both remarkably similar on the defensive end.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Let's say Barnes regresses, instead of rocketing up stats wise this year. Well, that means he doesn't have a high ceiling. It also means we're probably not building around him. Unless the goal is the most mid team possible. He needs to be a future top five for this to make sense. Otherwise, wtf are we wasting out time.

It's a make or break season, the refusal to do this on his rookie contract is on the GM. A lot of these contracts look toxic if it goes bad.

This is a team sport...As good as 1 player is he can't win anything by himself....No top 5 player was able to win on their own...Now at 23 years old its way to early to say its a make it or break it season for him....Its just insane how the lack of patience is with many posters here....Its literally year 1 of this rebuild and he has 6 years under contract still....We need to add one of these franchise altering talents this draft...

This team needs a influx of talent on it...Barnes will not become a top 5 player this season....He will be good but not MVP level good....The team will be bad....Most likely pull the plug midway and tank for a high pick if i were to predict....Barnes performance has little to do with the teams record this year because i think FO goal is the draft right now...

Contracts maybe big for our main players right now but they are not untradeable contracts and the money has to go to someone...

It's a team sport, but you're not going to find many Championship teams without at least one top five player. Generally, teams without one just don't advance.

Besides, we've already done the Siakam/FVV/Norm version of "no stars" team. We know how that goes.

[Brinbe]

Let's say Barnes regresses, instead of rocketing up stats wise this year. Well, that means he doesn't have a high ceiling. It also means we're probably not building around him. Unless the goal is the most mid team possible. He needs to be a future top five for this to make sense. Otherwise, wtf are we wasting out time.

It's a make or break season, the refusal to do this on his rookie contract is on the GM. A lot of these contracts look toxic if it goes bad.

This is a team sport...As good as 1 player is he can't win anything by himself....No top 5 player was able to win on their own...Now at 23 years old its way to early to say its a make it or break it season for him....Its just insane how the lack of patience is with many posters here....Its literally year 1 of this rebuild and he has 6 years under contract still....We need to add one of these franchise altering talents this draft...

This team needs a influx of talent on it...Barnes will not become a top 5 player this season....He will be good but not MVP level good....The team will be bad....Most likely pull the plug midway and tank for a high pick if i were to predict....Barnes performance has little to do with the teams record this year because i think FO goal is the draft right now...

Contracts maybe big for our main players right now but they are not untradeable contracts and the money has to go to someone...

It's a team sport, but you're not going to find many Championship teams without at least one top five player. Generally, teams without one just don't advance.

Besides, we've already done the Siakam/FVV/Norm version of "no stars" team. We know how that goes.

a pandemic away from possibly repeating?

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

This is a team sport...As good as 1 player is he can't win anything by himself....No top 5 player was able to win on their own...Now at 23 years old its way to early to say its a make it or break it season for him....Its just insane how the lack of patience is with many posters here....Its literally year 1 of this rebuild and he has 6 years under contract still....We need to add one of these franchise altering talents this draft...

This team needs a influx of talent on it...Barnes will not become a top 5 player this season....He will be good but not MVP level good....The team will be bad....Most likely pull the plug midway and tank for a high pick if i were to predict....Barnes performance has little to do with the teams record this year because i think FO goal is the draft right now...

Contracts maybe big for our main players right now but they are not untradeable contracts and the money has to go to someone...

It's a team sport, but you're not going to find many Championship teams without at least one top five player. Generally, teams without one just don't advance.

Besides, we've already done the Siakam/FVV/Norm version of "no stars" team. We know how that goes.

a pandemic away from possibly repeating?

Remember the Boston series?

[Vampirate]

Let's say Barnes regresses, instead of rocketing up stats wise this year. Well, that means he doesn't have a high ceiling. It also means we're probably not building around him. Unless the goal is the most mid team possible. He needs to be a future top five for this to make sense. Otherwise, wtf are we wasting out time.

It's a make or break season, the refusal to do this on his rookie contract is on the GM. A lot of these contracts look toxic if it goes bad.

I don't think Barnes will regress, his usage will probably get him close to 20PPG anyways.

My actual worry is he either stagnates, or incrementally improves, rather than substantially improving. He's pretty much a lock to get 7 rebounds and 5 assists at the least (his assist numbers have gone up every single year).

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Let's say Barnes regresses, instead of rocketing up stats wise this year. Well, that means he doesn't have a high ceiling. It also means we're probably not building around him. Unless the goal is the most mid team possible. He needs to be a future top five for this to make sense. Otherwise, wtf are we wasting out time.

It's a make or break season, the refusal to do this on his rookie contract is on the GM. A lot of these contracts look toxic if it goes bad.

I don't think Barnes will regress, his usage will probably get him close to 20PPG anyways.

My actual worry is he either stagnates, or incrementally improves, rather than substantially improving. He's pretty much a lock to get 7 rebounds and 5 assists at the least (his assist numbers have gone up every single year).

I hope for the best, but seeing how we have no shooting...I know it's a possibility.

[Clutch0z24]

Let's say Barnes regresses, instead of rocketing up stats wise this year. Well, that means he doesn't have a high ceiling. It also means we're probably not building around him. Unless the goal is the most mid team possible. He needs to be a future top five for this to make sense. Otherwise, wtf are we wasting out time.

It's a make or break season, the refusal to do this on his rookie contract is on the GM. A lot of these contracts look toxic if it goes bad.

This is a team sport...As good as 1 player is he can't win anything by himself....No top 5 player was able to win on their own...Now at 23 years old its way to early to say its a make it or break it season for him....Its just insane how the lack of patience is with many posters here....Its literally year 1 of this rebuild and he has 6 years under contract still....We need to add one of these franchise altering talents this draft...

This team needs a influx of talent on it...Barnes will not become a top 5 player this season....He will be good but not MVP level good....The team will be bad....Most likely pull the plug midway and tank for a high pick if i were to predict....Barnes performance has little to do with the teams record this year because i think FO goal is the draft right now...

Contracts maybe big for our main players right now but they are not untradeable contracts and the money has to go to someone...

It's a team sport, but you're not going to find many Championship teams without at least one top five player. Generally, teams without one just don't advance.

Besides, we've already done the Siakam/FVV/Norm version of "no stars" team. We know how that goes.

Is Tatum a top 5 player in the NBA right now?....Arguably no...But hes a very good player....Barnes i think can reach that Tatum level which imo is a tier below that MVP level....Put Tatum on this team and take Barnes off...Do we win?...Prolly not....Tatum needs a really good team built around him with a strong co star beside him...Tatum is prolly a top 10 player for sure...But still he could not make the team we have a winner...

That is why its crucial for the FO to throw this season in the trash and try and add one of Flagg/Bailey/Edgecomb/Traore/Harper cause the team needs alot of talent around Barnes to win and right now we are lacking...We used all our major trade assets and got what we got...We won't be signing free agents....So the talent has to come from some where for the rebuild to go as planned.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

This is a team sport...As good as 1 player is he can't win anything by himself....No top 5 player was able to win on their own...Now at 23 years old its way to early to say its a make it or break it season for him....Its just insane how the lack of patience is with many posters here....Its literally year 1 of this rebuild and he has 6 years under contract still....We need to add one of these franchise altering talents this draft...

This team needs a influx of talent on it...Barnes will not become a top 5 player this season....He will be good but not MVP level good....The team will be bad....Most likely pull the plug midway and tank for a high pick if i were to predict....Barnes performance has little to do with the teams record this year because i think FO goal is the draft right now...

Contracts maybe big for our main players right now but they are not untradeable contracts and the money has to go to someone...

It's a team sport, but you're not going to find many Championship teams without at least one top five player. Generally, teams without one just don't advance.

Besides, we've already done the Siakam/FVV/Norm version of "no stars" team. We know how that goes.

Is Tatum a top 5 player in the NBA right now?....Arguably no...But hes a very good player....Barnes i think can reach that Tatum level which imo is a tier below that MVP level....Put Tatum on this team and take Barnes off...Do we win?...Prolly not....Tatum needs a really good team built around him with a strong co star beside him...Tatum is prolly a top 10 player for sure...But still he could not make the team we have a winner...

That is why its crucial for the FO to throw this season in the trash and try and add one of Flagg/Bailey/Edgecomb/Traore/Harper cause the team needs alot of talent around Barnes to win and right now we are lacking...We used all our major trade assets and got what we got...We won't be signing free agents....So the talent has to come from some where for the rebuild to go as planned.

Both him and Brown are close. Not to mention Milwaukee gifting Holiday.

Plus, it's a little different if we're talking about them capping out. Like we would be this year if Barnes regresses.

[Clutch0z24]

It's a team sport, but you're not going to find many Championship teams without at least one top five player. Generally, teams without one just don't advance.

Besides, we've already done the Siakam/FVV/Norm version of "no stars" team. We know how that goes.

Is Tatum a top 5 player in the NBA right now?....Arguably no...But hes a very good player....Barnes i think can reach that Tatum level which imo is a tier below that MVP level....Put Tatum on this team and take Barnes off...Do we win?...Prolly not....Tatum needs a really good team built around him with a strong co star beside him...Tatum is prolly a top 10 player for sure...But still he could not make the team we have a winner...

That is why its crucial for the FO to throw this season in the trash and try and add one of Flagg/Bailey/Edgecomb/Traore/Harper cause the team needs alot of talent around Barnes to win and right now we are lacking...We used all our major trade assets and got what we got...We won't be signing free agents....So the talent has to come from some where for the rebuild to go as planned.

Both him and Brown are close. Not to mention Milwaukee gifting Holiday.

Plus, it's a little different if we're talking about them capping out. Like we would be this year if Barnes regresses.

I think Barnes can be on that level of a Tatum during his prime...And again this is why its so crucial for us to get a top pick this draft...Cause yes like you said "Both him and Brown"...Tatum needs Brown to win and Vise versa....If we get Barnes a legit player in the upcoming draft to play with during his max contract then i can see us being the Celtics of the east during Barnes max contract years..And Quickley/Barrett/Dick will all be good role players sim to what Celtics have and if not they can be moved for pieces in a trade...

Also Like i said we may have some guys on big contracts but Barnes/Quickley/Barrett are basically the 3 on big deals the rest of the team contracts will be off the books...So you have 3 guys making big money and none of them will be "Untradeable" contracts...

Even if Barnes has an off year if we end up with a top pick next year who becomes a star, any team in the NBA would trade for Barnes or Quickley if we really wanted to trade them anytime...

Its not as dire as your making it out to be...

[YogurtProducer]

Let's say Barnes regresses, instead of rocketing up stats wise this year. Well, that means he doesn't have a high ceiling. It also means we're probably not building around him. Unless the goal is the most mid team possible. He needs to be a future top five for this to make sense. Otherwise, wtf are we wasting out time.

It's a make or break season, the refusal to do this on his rookie contract is on the GM. A lot of these contracts look toxic if it goes bad.

Not really. Scottie already is worth his max. IQ is the only one that has potential to go south, and even then, I think even today he is fairly paid as the 50th-ish highest player in the league (and will only go down over time).

RJ only has 2 years after this one.

Reality is if this core isn't it and we want to pivot to a full scale tank it won't be hard to do.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Is Tatum a top 5 player in the NBA right now?....Arguably no...But hes a very good player....Barnes i think can reach that Tatum level which imo is a tier below that MVP level....Put Tatum on this team and take Barnes off...Do we win?...Prolly not....Tatum needs a really good team built around him with a strong co star beside him...Tatum is prolly a top 10 player for sure...But still he could not make the team we have a winner...

That is why its crucial for the FO to throw this season in the trash and try and add one of Flagg/Bailey/Edgecomb/Traore/Harper cause the team needs alot of talent around Barnes to win and right now we are lacking...We used all our major trade assets and got what we got...We won't be signing free agents....So the talent has to come from some where for the rebuild to go as planned.

Both him and Brown are close. Not to mention Milwaukee gifting Holiday.

Plus, it's a little different if we're talking about them capping out. Like we would be this year if Barnes regresses.

I think Barnes can be on that level of a Tatum during his prime...And again this is why its so crucial for us to get a top pick this draft...Cause yes like you said "Both him and Brown"...Tatum needs Brown to win and Vise versa....If we get Barnes a legit player in the upcoming draft to play with during his max contract then i can see us being the Celtics of the east during Barnes max contract years..And Quickley/Barrett/Dick will all be good role players sim to what Celtics have and if not they can be moved for pieces in a trade...

Also Like i said we may have some guys on big contracts but Barnes/Quickley/Barrett are basically the 3 on big deals the rest of the team contracts will be off the books...So you have 3 guys making big money and none of them will be "Untradeable" contracts...

Even if Barnes has an off year if we end up with a top pick next year who becomes a star, any team in the NBA would trade for Barnes or Quickley if we really wanted to trade them anytime...

Its not as dire as your making it out to be...

If he has an off year, I start looking at him like Lamar Odom. More of an elite role player. The contract becomes problematic then.

[YogurtProducer]

Both him and Brown are close. Not to mention Milwaukee gifting Holiday.

Plus, it's a little different if we're talking about them capping out. Like we would be this year if Barnes regresses.

I think Barnes can be on that level of a Tatum during his prime...And again this is why its so crucial for us to get a top pick this draft...Cause yes like you said "Both him and Brown"...Tatum needs Brown to win and Vise versa....If we get Barnes a legit player in the upcoming draft to play with during his max contract then i can see us being the Celtics of the east during Barnes max contract years..And Quickley/Barrett/Dick will all be good role players sim to what Celtics have and if not they can be moved for pieces in a trade...

Also Like i said we may have some guys on big contracts but Barnes/Quickley/Barrett are basically the 3 on big deals the rest of the team contracts will be off the books...So you have 3 guys making big money and none of them will be "Untradeable" contracts...

Even if Barnes has an off year if we end up with a top pick next year who becomes a star, any team in the NBA would trade for Barnes or Quickley if we really wanted to trade them anytime...

Its not as dire as your making it out to be...

If he has an off year, I start looking at him like Lamar Odom. More of an elite role player. The contract becomes problematic then.

He currently is the 38th highest paid player for 2025-26 before more extensions kick in.

FAR from problematic. He would have to regress to be a bad deal.

[will]

We here, baby.

Let that tank do what it do.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

if raps go winless in the preseason we'll be starting on the right foot

raise your glass for a career high in borderline intoxicated irish grandpa ramblings from jack armstrong because the games get that depressing. every loss is a win.

[ForeverTFC]

This is a team sport...As good as 1 player is he can't win anything by himself....No top 5 player was able to win on their own...Now at 23 years old its way to early to say its a make it or break it season for him....Its just insane how the lack of patience is with many posters here....Its literally year 1 of this rebuild and he has 6 years under contract still....We need to add one of these franchise altering talents this draft...

This team needs a influx of talent on it...Barnes will not become a top 5 player this season....He will be good but not MVP level good....The team will be bad....Most likely pull the plug midway and tank for a high pick if i were to predict....Barnes performance has little to do with the teams record this year because i think FO goal is the draft right now...

Contracts maybe big for our main players right now but they are not untradeable contracts and the money has to go to someone...

It's a team sport, but you're not going to find many Championship teams without at least one top five player. Generally, teams without one just don't advance.

Besides, we've already done the Siakam/FVV/Norm version of "no stars" team. We know how that goes.

Is Tatum a top 5 player in the NBA right now?....Arguably no...But hes a very good player....Barnes i think can reach that Tatum level which imo is a tier below that MVP level....Put Tatum on this team and take Barnes off...Do we win?...Prolly not....Tatum needs a really good team built around him with a strong co star beside him...Tatum is prolly a top 10 player for sure...But still he could not make the team we have a winner...

That is why its crucial for the FO to throw this season in the trash and try and add one of Flagg/Bailey/Edgecomb/Traore/Harper cause the team needs alot of talent around Barnes to win and right now we are lacking...We used all our major trade assets and got what we got...We won't be signing free agents....So the talent has to come from some where for the rebuild to go as planned.

I'm not a tanker, but Tatum is surrounded by a ton of talent. I tend to agree that you need a top 5 guy in that season to win. With that said, 3 of the top 5 guys today were not high end lottery picks. Tanking isn't the only way to get there, drafting well is.

[Clutch0z24]

It's a team sport, but you're not going to find many Championship teams without at least one top five player. Generally, teams without one just don't advance.

Besides, we've already done the Siakam/FVV/Norm version of "no stars" team. We know how that goes.

Is Tatum a top 5 player in the NBA right now?....Arguably no...But hes a very good player....Barnes i think can reach that Tatum level which imo is a tier below that MVP level....Put Tatum on this team and take Barnes off...Do we win?...Prolly not....Tatum needs a really good team built around him with a strong co star beside him...Tatum is prolly a top 10 player for sure...But still he could not make the team we have a winner...

That is why its crucial for the FO to throw this season in the trash and try and add one of Flagg/Bailey/Edgecomb/Traore/Harper cause the team needs alot of talent around Barnes to win and right now we are lacking...We used all our major trade assets and got what we got...We won't be signing free agents....So the talent has to come from some where for the rebuild to go as planned.

I'm not a tanker, but Tatum is surrounded by a ton of talent. I tend to agree that you need a top 5 guy in that season to win. With that said, 3 of the top 5 guys today were not high end lottery picks. Tanking isn't the only way to get there, drafting well is.

Drafting well can also only get you so far when you are drafting in the late teens or in the 20s....There is a ton of data on how drafting higher gives you a substantial increase of odds to draft higher quality talent...Drafting well also matters but i believe in Masai if he has a high pick he will pick the right player...

You can only get lucky by drafting a steal late in the draft that has a major impact and history shows that....There have been some outliers here and there in drafts but the majority of the time the best players in the draft are getting picked with a high end pick.