Don't blame everything on Sam

[Kabookalu]

That is what I'm thinking, last night JO proved that he can still be a great option in the post, he was giving it to the Hawks big men down low and Bosh is better than ever. Why do we need scoring from the perimeter when we have three guys that can potentially score 20 points at any given night? Not to mention two of those guys can play in the post. Honestly look at the 05-06 Phoenix Suns team, they didn't have anyone that could really create their own shot, only Steve Nash basically, yet they were still the best offensive team in the league. How were we struggling offensively when we have two post options, the best shooter in the world, a solid starting shooting guard that has a great mid range game, and a guy that is arguably the best at shooting off of pick n' rolls. With this we should be one of the best offensive teams in the league. Hell we were I believe the third best offensive team in 05-06 with Mike James, Morris Peterson, Chirs Bosh, Charlie V and some other guys.

All this talk about our lack of play being a result a lack of talent, that is almost equivalent to saying that we could fire Sam Mitchell right now, have our guys play in street ball fashion and not skip a beat. The only team that is capable of doing that is the Dream Team. You don't throw millions of dollars at someone just to babysit a bunch of basketball players. The coach should be the architect and the players the workers. Mitchell's way of being an architect is like working during snowy and rainy days and resting on sunny and warm days while telling his guys "Good job!" to motivate them.

[the_real_deception]

I blame Bryan Colangelo. I'm not overreacting, but there will be many nights like this until the current makeup of the team is changed.

.

there is enough blame to go around but the chief executive needs to assume his share. there is a trend here- in the raps two worst performances of the year, they got run out of the building. the warriors didnt have the horses to sustain their track meet style but the hawks did. so why is this colangelo's fault- because nearly 40 million dollars is devoted to the front line. in the words of obama to joe the plumber, " we need to spread the wealth around". our wings suck, no other way to describe the collection of parker, jk, moon, adams and graham. what im trying to say is- TRADE BARGNANI PLEASE!!!

[Kabookalu]

Bargnani is not the problem, if anything he's been one of the few bright spots for us off the bench. He's finally playing like a big man, his work ethic, one of the biggest reasons we drafted him first overall in the first place, is still apparent. I hate to keep on protecting Bargnani's "potential", but I really do think this guy is going to deliver somewhat, just not on a 1st overall pick level. If he keeps on improving, I see him becoming a 18/8 to go with 2 blocks and solid man and help defense (sadly, what LaMarcus Alridge is right now).

If we trade Bargnani, we're going to remove a patched up hole in order to fill another patched up hole. Our big man depth would be scary; Kris Humphries getting rotation minutes?

[08HEMI]

I blame Bryan Colangelo. I'm not overreacting, but there will be many nights like this until the current makeup of the team is changed.

.

there is enough blame to go around but the chief executive needs to assume his share. there is a trend here- in the raps two worst performances of the year, they got run out of the building. the warriors didnt have the horses to sustain their track meet style but the hawks did. so why is this colangelo's fault- because nearly 40 million dollars is devoted to the front line. in the words of obama to joe the plumber, " we need to spread the wealth around". our wings suck, no other way to describe the collection of parker, jk, moon, adams and graham. what im trying to say is- TRADE BARGNANI PLEASE!!!

Oh please we have given this guy deep rosters, thin rosters, medium rosters and nothing changes. We have spread the wealth around, we have brought in several wings while he has been here and changed the lineup four times through Babcock and BC, we have brought in JO a player who teamed with Bosh should be one the best frontcourts in the NBA on both ends to go along with some of the best shooters in the NBA, offensively we should be dynomite, defensively it was supposed to put a stop to needing the help downlow. Through 4-5 years now we have developed not one single draft pick, a case of continuous bad drafting by two different gm's or a case of a coach who is unable to develop and manage young players? Whatever this guy has wanted since BC has been here BC has given him and usually after he gets it he then starts whining about another position year after year. Every team in the NBA has holes on their team, its up to the coach to put together a system that hides it or finds a way for it to be an advantage through design not a disadvantage. Its astonishing to me to watch us highlight our players disadvantages by asking them to double when its not needed or whatever, its amazing to me that we bring in JO to end the need for doubling down low yet we still do it, is Sam not smart enough to see if we are going to double anywhere it should be outside not inside and if its not working making an adjustment before a player completely lights us up and looks like a hall of famer?

This coach is ridiculously bad on so many levels when you think about it and he is either to stupid to make changes to his own thinking or to stubburn to admit his system and philosophy on how to deal with players young and old and in game decisions are wrong.

[the_real_deception]

Oh please we have given this guy deep rosters, thin rosters, medium rosters and nothing changes. We have spread the wealth around, we have brought in several wings while he has been here and changed the lineup four times through Babcock and BC, we have brought in JO a player who teamed with Bosh should be one the best frontcourts in the NBA on both ends to go along with some of the best shooters in the NBA, offensively we should be dynomite, defensively it was supposed to put a stop to needing the help downlow. Through 4-5 years now we have developed not one single draft pick, a case of continuous bad drafting by two different gm's or a case of a coach who is unable to develop and manage young players? Whatever this guy has wanted since BC has been here BC has given him and usually after he gets it he then starts whining about another position year after year. Every team in the NBA has holes on their team, its up to the coach to put together a system that hides it or finds a way for it to be an advantage through design not a disadvantage. Its astonishing to me to watch us highlight our players disadvantages by asking them to double when its not needed or whatever, its amazing to me that we bring in JO to end the need for doubling down low yet we still do it, is Sam not smart enough to see if we are going to double anywhere it should be outside not inside and if its not working making an adjustment before a player completely lights us up and looks like a hall of famer?

This coach is ridiculously bad on so many levels when you think about it and he is either to stupid to make changes to his own thinking or to stubburn to admit his system and philosophy on how to deal with players young and old and in game decisions are wrong.

so the combination of parker, moon, jk, adams and graham make collectively 13 million a year. what kind of funny math do you subscribe to where u see colangelo spreading the wealth around?

and btw- i think smitch is complicit in the entire thing. nevertheless, colangelo has been an alright gm in toronto at best and u ppl want to crown this fool. facts (1) bosh (grunwald) (2) caledron (babcock) (3) JO and his 20 million plus salary (colangelo) (4) bargnani first overall when roy and gay were all on the board (colangelo) (5) paying jk the entire mid level for the most one dimensonal player in the league (colangelo)

imagine where we would be today if roy was picked ahead of bargnani; if pietrus was signed instead of jk; if we fired smitch and hired d'antoni. let me put it on paper so its crystal clear for u

PG: Caledron
SG: Roy
Sf: Pietrus
Pf: Charlie V
C: Bosh

Coach: D'antoni

and plenty of cap flexibility!!!

[Miras]

PG: Caledron
SG: Roy
Sf: Pietrus
Pf: Charlie V
C: Bosh

Coach: D'antoni


that's one week backcourt right there, and i dont think Bosh would be very fond of playing the 5 again.

we need an improvement on the wing and i dont know what BC and company will do address that, but we need one ASAP, Moon and Parker aint gonna cut it.

[Miras]

PG: Caledron
SG: Roy
Sf: Pietrus
Pf: Charlie V
C: Bosh

Coach: D'antoni


that's one week backcourt right there, and i dont think Bosh would be very fond of playing the 5 again.

we need an improvement on the wing and i dont know what BC and company will do address that, but we need one ASAP, Moon and Parker aint gonna cut it.

[08HEMI]

so the combination of parker, moon, jk, adams and graham make collectively 13 million a year. what kind of funny math do you subscribe to where u see colangelo spreading the wealth around?

I wasn't talking about this years team when I said that, i was telling you that we have spread the wealth around in the past, mainly last year and all Sam and the fans would ever say is we need a big. Now we got a big and now our holes are else where. My point is Sam has been given many different combinations through the years and he has failed to produce a consistant team with any of them. Its never his fault its always everyone else's even though he is the guy that has gotten exactly what he has asked for ever since BC has got here.

and btw- i think smitch is complicit in the entire thing. nevertheless, colangelo has been an alright gm in toronto at best and u ppl want to crown this fool. facts (1) bosh (grunwald) (2) caledron (babcock) (3) JO and his 20 million plus salary (colangelo) (4) bargnani first overall when roy and gay were all on the board (colangelo) (5) paying jk the entire mid level for the most one dimensonal player in the league (colangelo)

Im not crowning him but he has done a fine job and I think people under estimate the talent he has brought here year after year compared to teams of the past. I think he has made many mistakes, I think TJ is a better fit with this team than Jose, I think sam should of been let go, I think there was many other solid players available this year at the same price as guys like Adams but I also see this team and see we have a deadly frontcourt with some of th best shooters in the game and there is no reason why we should not be a dominant regular season team with what we have. I also think sam Mitchell is one of the worst coaches in the league in terms of developing young players and us not developing one single pick through his years in toronto is a telling sign to me.

imagine where we would be today if roy was picked ahead of bargnani; if pietrus was signed instead of jk; if we fired smitch and hired d'antoni. let me put it on paper so its crystal clear for u

PG: Caledron
SG: Roy
Sf: Pietrus
Pf: Charlie V
C: Bosh

Coach: D'antoni

and plenty of cap flexibility!!!

Well atleast you would of fired Sam, good start

[JN]

I blame Bryan Colangelo. I'm not overreacting, but there will be many nights like this until the current makeup of the team is changed.

.

there is enough blame to go around but the chief executive needs to assume his share. there is a trend here- in the raps two worst performances of the year, they got run out of the building. the warriors didnt have the horses to sustain their track meet style but the hawks did. so why is this colangelo's fault- because nearly 40 million dollars is devoted to the front line. in the words of obama to joe the plumber, " we need to spread the wealth around". our wings suck, no other way to describe the collection of parker, jk, moon, adams and graham. what im trying to say is- TRADE BARGNANI PLEASE!!!

Oh please we have given this guy deep rosters, thin rosters, medium rosters and nothing changes. We have spread the wealth around, we have brought in several wings while he has been here and changed the lineup four times through Babcock and BC, we have brought in JO a player who teamed with Bosh should be one the best frontcourts in the NBA on both ends to go along with some of the best shooters in the NBA, offensively we should be dynomite, defensively it was supposed to put a stop to needing the help downlow. Through 4-5 years now we have developed not one single draft pick, a case of continuous bad drafting by two different gm's or a case of a coach who is unable to develop and manage young players? Whatever this guy has wanted since BC has been here BC has given him and usually after he gets it he then starts whining about another position year after year. Every team in the NBA has holes on their team, its up to the coach to put together a system that hides it or finds a way for it to be an advantage through design not a disadvantage. Its astonishing to me to watch us highlight our players disadvantages by asking them to double when its not needed or whatever, its amazing to me that we bring in JO to end the need for doubling down low yet we still do it, is Sam not smart enough to see if we are going to double anywhere it should be outside not inside and if its not working making an adjustment before a player completely lights us up and looks like a hall of famer?

This coach is ridiculously bad on so many levels when you think about it and he is either to stupid to make changes to his own thinking or to stubburn to admit his system and philosophy on how to deal with players young and old and in game decisions are wrong.

worst post ever.

[Paperclip]

[
Remember Kobe's 81 damn that was fun to LMAO. I remember it, that was when Sam refused to double him and just let him go off, its classic mitchell, double when you don't need to and don't double when you need to. He just has no clue how to adjust.

Sam doubled him, and even tripled him at a few points in the game. It didn't matter.

OK here we go every single one of Kobes 81 points versus us.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRikrksH8es

I count 1 double team.

you forgot to throw out the 2 words he seems to love to use: revisionist history.
That was the most pathetic defence ever. We didn`t try to force the ball out of his hands when he was clearly hot. Especially during the 3 point storm.

[junot111]

he doesn't give Bargs touches that would help him better his game and put his work over the summer in action

I've never seen him scold J.O. for anything, and J.O. chucks up shots like a MADMAN WHO DOES HE THINK HE IS

yeah

[I_Like_Dirt]

I don't really feel like getting into a debate about Sam Mitchell, but I do want to make a couple points regarding a few things that have been said in this thread.

First, the biggest problem with this team's wing players- that I didn't see mentioned yet- is that there isn't a single player in the bunch that makes opponents work consistently on both ends of the floor. This actually isn't just a problem with the wing players but the perimeter players in general. Parker is the closest thing the Raptors have, but when he focuses on defense he becomes an easy guard on offense and when his defensive focus gets overwhelmed you get performances like last night where he's useless on both ends of the floor. Other than that, Kapono makes life on opposing offenses easier, Moon makes life on opposing defenses easier and everybody else just plain makes life easier for opposing teams. If this team had even one player who could make opponents work on the defensive end without giving up much defensively.

Second, I include Jose in that first group. He isn't a lead guard and can be relatively easily shut down when opposing defenses decide not to give him anything. He doesn't disrupt defenses with his offense which allows opposing teams to use a bit less energy on the defensive end. That isn't an issue that prevents Jose from being a star, but it does prevent him from being a lead guard. When the team needs somebody to create a shot and make a basket under tough circumstances, he can't do that. When the team needs to shadow an opposing lead guard and shut him down he can't do that, either. Personally, I'm starting to think Jose is the best trade chip the Raptors have to get the kind of player the Raptors need. It would blow a hole at PG but if that could be filled with a lesser player included in the trade that would be excellent.

Third, I don't think the problem is so much with the Raptors' wing players but rather with the team's guards. Yes, SF isn't exactly great, but between Bosh, Moon, Kapono, Humphries, Graham and O'Neal/Bargnani playing a bit of PF the Raptors are more than solid at the forward spots; they don't have any players with guard like qualities that can help out with guardplay, but for a bunch of fowards that is excellent. At C, with O'Neal and Bargnani, they're pretty good, too. At guard, there is Jose, who isn't really a top 10 PG but rather fighting for the 9-15 spots along with Miller, Ford, Harris (defense counts, too), Kidd, Mo Williams and Rondo - Paul, Deron, Arenas, Baron, Nash, Billups, Iverson and Parker are the top 8. Jose is great at running an offense and has wonderful shot selection but he's weak as a lead guard and defensively. Parker has pretty much the exact same strengths and weaknesses, which is a problem, although he's better defensively, and he's a top 20-30 Sg at best. After that, there's nobody who's NBA calibre. That's a problem. There isn't a lead guard in the bunch and there is no depth at all.

[jaymeister15]

Great post I_L_D, I agree with pretty much everything you said.

[08HEMI]

I also think Sam lacks confidence in his players and that lack of confidence is visible. If your headcoach has no confidence in you to do the things you need to do to be successful how do you expect the player to have confidence in himself?

I had a friend once whose father had zero confidence in him, he tried to hide him during get togethers and looked at him and treated him as if he was mentally challeneged but he wasn't. Today that old friend is homeless and a drug addict and has tried to take his own life several times. Who was to blame for my friends current state? The father who mentally abused him and hid him from the world from ages 4-10 or my friend who couldnt suck it up and be what his fathers puppet? Now lol thats a little extreme compared to playing basketball but in many ways its simular in that when you are looked at like a fool and the leaders in your life have zero confidence in you to accomplish any task you are bound to fail and lack confidence in yourself.

[supersub15]

Great post ILD. Here's my counter-argument:

We all know that the current team is made up of 2 allegedly great post players in Bosh and O'Neal. Sam's philosophy since we traded for O'Neal has been that we will dumping the ball to one or the other on almost every possession. Look at what happened yesterday: their PF/C were in constant foul trouble and Horford should have fouled out, if the refs didn't bail him out on a couple of calls. This is the template. We won the first 3 games on the back of dumping the ball in and sending it out to our shooters when the double comes.

Everybody is freaking out because their guards killed ours. But if we played even a modicum of defense or if our shooters shoot an ok percentage, we would have been going into the 4th quarter in a close game.

What I'm trying to say is that we don't slashers all over the place, maybe one, to soften the defense when we need somebody to shift the defense one way or the other. Delfino would have been sufficient.

[CalderonFTW]

Why is it that a Deron-less Utah can beat the better teams in this league?

Just look at their starting 5:

Price(WHO?!)
Brewer
Okur
Booz
C.J. Miles(WHO?!)

I mean...Jesus Christ that's a bad starting 5....
I know Ak47 is coming off the bench but seriously...They have beat Denver, Clippers and Protland with that line up and they are 5-0!

Coaching has got to do something with it...What else is there?

[Hank_Scorpio]

Coaching.

Its just that simple.

There are lots of good coaches out there (and yes, I consider Sam to be one of them), but Sloane is something else. He's an institution in Utah. Its a totally different philosophy to coaching than any other organization takes.

In Utah, you fit the coach. They don't fit the coach to you. Its like that in San Antonio. And to an extent with the Lakers. Detroit is also doing something like this, but it has much more to do with the GM.





Oh...and it helps to have really talented players like Boozer, Okur, Brewer, and Kirilenko. Thought I should mention that.

[Blazer_2458]

1. Im pretty sure thats Ronnie Brewer, not Corey or someone of that "caliber"
2. The answer to your question is SLOAN

[Duffman100]

We're seeing the same mistakes as last year.

A defense thats pathetic.
Rebounding which is soft.
Lack of development from players not named Chris Bosh.
A stagnant offense which doesn't utilize our strengths.

You can blame the players as much as you want, but this keeps coming down to coaching. We look lost on defense and confused on offense.

Honestly, how many times have you seen an offensive possession starting with 12 seconds left on the shot clock?

How many times do you have players lost in their defensive rotations?

Smitchell has been a good coach to this team. Has brought us to being a consistent .500 team, but we need to take the next step. We need a coach that can get us out of the first round.

Smitchell is not that coach.

[Black Milk]

Letting Sam go will not have nearly the impact of getting a decent player at SG/SF position. Moon, Graham, Adams, Kapono are not cutting it and Parker is quite inconsistent himself.