Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7

[5DOM]

I actually think his best case scenario is Al Jefferson.

Al only plays one end.

I've already stated my concerns with Kanter's D. We have like no info on it other than some lines from DraftExpress. Okay, Al Jefferson with good D would be the best I can see him becoming, which is very good. I don't expect Kanter to be as good as Jefferson offensively anyway.

[Indeed]

I actually think his best case scenario is Al Jefferson.

Al only plays one end.

I've already stated my concerns with Kanter's D. We have like no info on it other than some lines from DraftExpress. Okay, Al Jefferson with good D would be the best I can see him becoming, which is very good. I don't expect Kanter to be as good as Jefferson offensively anyway.

I think Kanter can be a good man defender, and he can be a better offensive player than Davis. However, both doesn't have the quickness to get pass their man. We will need a super star at the 1 or 3 to compensate them. And I think Kanter is a better player than Davis, because of his size and reach.

[Mediocrity]

wtf @ not drafting irving with #1 pick
wtf wtf wtf

I LOL when that mediocrity dude says that. Everyone who watches Irving knows he has the "it" factor and he's pretty much a guaranteed first pick by any espn scouts any pro scouts any gms, it's funny there's still someone on this board questions his ability and questions the "11" games he played. Didn't he know Irving was on scoring spree in the tourney? Funny. Just funny.

The only reason I have reservations about Irving is because I have not seen him play. You obviously have seen him play, as your posts are frequented with references to him, so describe to me this abstract ideal you like to describe as "it". How can you measure it?

[DG88]

So if we end up with the number 1 pick, is it a consensous that we take Irving? I personally don't see the hype surronding him, so what someone who has acutally seen him play tell me why he gets the hype he receives? He doesn't seem extrememly athletic, which oviously doesn't matter, but it is increasingly becoming important at the PG position. Are the 11 games he played enough to extrapolate onto an entire season? Will he have any nagging injuires potentially?

From the get go Irving showed great leadership, defense at the point, very good quickness, handle, dribble penetration, create his own shot and had spectacular court vision. The closest guy in the NBA with his skills would be Chris Paul. His ability to manage a game and become a leader of the team with a couple of seniors on the team spoke volumes of his leadership abilities. He shot 50/40/90 for those 11 games that he did play and didn't look like he would slow down. For the Raptors he'd be a perfect PG to pair with DeRozan and Davis to make a nice core. His ability to get into the paint will help draw defenses in giving his teammates better looks at the basket and on the 3 point line. He has the full package of a franchise point guard that any team would want. He may not as athletic as a D Rose or a John Wall but his can get up when he needs too.

[fredericklove]

The only reason I have reservations about Irving is because I have not seen him play. You obviously have seen him play, as your posts are frequented with references to him, so describe to me this abstract ideal you like to describe as "it". How can you measure it?

There's no abstract ideal to it, you watch him play you will know it. I'm not saying the youtube clips, you watch him in a game and you will know it. Anyone who has seen him play will know what kind of talent he is. Offensively when he attacks, he won't be your average guard that goes straight line driving to the basket, rather he will use variety of deceptive moves to break down the defender by using stutter steps and hesitation moves to fool them and these moves are in an elite level. He can basically blow by anyone in the college level and he does it without elite athleticism. Decent quickness but not in elite level like John Wall and Derrick Rose but he uses hesitation moves most of the time as evidently seen in duke games.

In terms of point guard skills he has the fundamentals, he has a decent court vision where he can easily spot open shooters, and pass to big men whenever they have the open lane for basket. He also excels the dribble drive and dish because he can break down a defender so easily, always able to draw a second defender that results in leaving someone else open and he's very good at doing that. That's what most NBA point guards do nowadays and he's good at doing that. He's a very capable passer in transition too. He can be a scorer at will but he is unselfish because he always wants to get his teammates involved.

He is a leader because he's very vocal, even his veteren teammates listen to him which is rare to see from a freshman. He has that leadership vibe when he's on the floor and he keeps the game at a steady pace, he won't go out of control. He's so poise and plays mature beyond his age. This is the vibe we all get from Irving when we watch him play, you can ask anyone on this draft board especially those who have watched him play.

Defensively he has good footwork to compensate his lack of size, sometimes he gambles but he has a very high motor when it comes to getting loose ball, he's just very active on the defensive end and a capable help defender.

When you watch him play, he does everything so maturely. He's not your average point guard, he has the poise, leadership, fundamentals, competitiveness, all that goes along with high level of skillset. These elements are what define Kyrie Irving when you watch him play.

[TDotRep]

Kyrie is the definition of a point guard. He will be in the league for a long time playing at a high level.

[Weems]

The NBA lottery mock draft on ESPN has us taking Williams at #1. Is that a recent development or was it like that since the tournament? We'd never actually do that, would we?

[Reignman]

LOL, people are talking about Kanter like he's some defensive sieve. Go look it up, Kanter is the best defender / rebounder out of all the big men in this draft. He also has monster shot blocking numbers.

People are definitely misinformed about Kanter just cuz he has offensive skills.

Like I said, skilled big men like Kanter don't come around very often, he's an all around big man. There's no serious flaw in his game that you can pick out.

[Weems]

LOL, people are talking about Kanter like he's some defensive sieve. Go look it up, Kanter is the best defender / rebounder out of all the big men in this draft. He also has monster shot blocking numbers.

Link?

[fredericklove]

The NBA lottery mock draft on ESPN has us taking Williams at #1. Is that a recent development or was it like that since the tournament? We'd never actually do that, would we?

Recent, the espn insiders think we need DWill more so they changed the mock draft. It's from the article retrieved from the espn nba draft blog.

Toronto Raptors
The Raptors are one of the teams that have to be just sick that Harrison Barnes is not in this draft. They would have had to give him strong consideration at any spot they are selecting, including the No. 1 spot. Toronto was a bad offensive team last, but it was the worst defensive team in the NBA. There was no candidate better suited to help the Raptors than Barnes, especially considering the huge hole they have at small forward .

The absence of a perfect fit means they'll have to take Derrick Williams. Even though they have two mainstays at the big spots in Andrea Bargnani and Ed Davis, who had an excellent rookie season, Williams would give them a strong scoring presence who is willing to compete on defense. He's powerfully built, something the Raps need in a player, and can certainly play small forward some, allowing Toronto to go big without giving up much. He's not a great rebounder as a 4 but would be better there than playing the 3. The big Euros are in the running here, but Toronto needs some explosiveness too, something Williams brings to the table, and his toughness might be more in need than anything else. If Williams, Davis and Amir Johnson are three of your top four bigs, your team has a bright future.

[5DOM]

LOL, people are talking about Kanter like he's some defensive sieve. Go look it up, Kanter is the best defender / rebounder out of all the big men in this draft. He also has monster shot blocking numbers.

And how are we supposed to know that when almost all of us haven't seen him play defense? He defended U18 Euro kids and Jared Sullinger who actually scored 22 points on 14 shots himself. I'm not saying he's going to be a defensive sieve, but questions/concerns are legitimate because we are all depending on a couple of lines from scouting reports.

[Yeezus_]

Reignman how are you going to claim that he is the best defender out of all the bigs in the draft without seeing him play in a while?

Im just curious, not questioning your logic.

[Weems]

Recent, the espn insiders think we need DWill more so they changed the mock draft. It's from the article retrieved from the espn nba draft blog.

Odd. The 2012 draft is stacked with SFs in the top 10 range, surely we could just nab one there. We'll certainly be in position for the lotto and it definitely beats taking a chance on Williams with the freaking first overall pick.

[bboyskinnylegs]

The NBA lottery mock draft on ESPN has us taking Williams at #1. Is that a recent development or was it like that since the tournament? We'd never actually do that, would we?

You could certainly make the case for taking Williams over Kyrie. He's an extremely efficient scorer (and not just an off-ball guy, he can be an iso option that's comfortable handling the ball and creating his own shot, kind of like Melo), a good rebounder, and has great athleticism and the ability to get to the line.

Ultimately I don't think BC would pass up Kyrie for him because the chance to potentially re-live the kind of success he had with Nash would be too much to pass up, but it wouldn't be surprising either--Derrick is a great prospect as well.

[fredericklove]

Odd. The 2012 draft is stacked with SFs in the top 10 range, surely we could just nab one there. We'll certainly be in position for the lotto and it definitely beats taking a chance on Williams with the freaking first overall pick.

That's because espn insiders don't know jack squad about the raps lineup and didn't watch a lick of raps game but why should they Can this team live with DWill at SF and Jose/Bayless remains at PG...one who can't pass and one who can't D. Or have a team with Irving running the point with Kleiza and JJ at SF.

[bboyskinnylegs]

Odd. The 2012 draft is stacked with SFs in the top 10 range, surely we could just nab one there. We'll certainly be in position for the lotto and it definitely beats taking a chance on Williams with the freaking first overall pick.

That's because espn insiders don't know jack squad about the raps lineup and didn't watch a lick of raps game but why should they Can this team live with DWill at SF and Jose/Bayless remains at PG...one who can't pass and one who can't D. Or have a team with Irving running the point with Kleiza and JJ at SF.

one who can't dribble and one who can't shoot... our problems go much further than just PG.

[fredericklove]

Odd. The 2012 draft is stacked with SFs in the top 10 range, surely we could just nab one there. We'll certainly be in position for the lotto and it definitely beats taking a chance on Williams with the freaking first overall pick.

That's because espn insiders don't know jack squad about the raps lineup and didn't watch a lick of raps game but why should they Can this team live with DWill at SF and Jose/Bayless remains at PG...one who can't pass and one who can't D. Or have a team with Irving running the point with Kleiza and JJ at SF.

one who can't dribble and one who can't shoot... our problems go much further than just PG.

With Irving's dribble drive and kick ability, Kleiza should transform into a full time spot up 3 point shooter...JJ should come off the bench as a defensive type of guy. Its all good. Besides there's alot of SF in next draft, I doubt Irving can turn the team around this fast so we could get a chance to get a good player in 2012 draft.

[Reignman]

LOL, people are talking about Kanter like he's some defensive sieve. Go look it up, Kanter is the best defender / rebounder out of all the big men in this draft. He also has monster shot blocking numbers.

And how are we supposed to know that when almost all of us haven't seen him play defense? He defended U18 Euro kids and Jared Sullinger who actually scored 22 points on 14 shots himself. I'm not saying he's going to be a defensive sieve, but questions/concerns are legitimate because we are all depending on a couple of lines from scouting reports.

So just because you don't have evidence otherwise you are just going to assume he's a poor defender.

Listen folks, I admit Kanter hasn't played this past year, but prior to that he DOMINATED, let's not just discount that, that would be stupid.

[5DOM]

LOL, people are talking about Kanter like he's some defensive sieve. Go look it up, Kanter is the best defender / rebounder out of all the big men in this draft. He also has monster shot blocking numbers.

And how are we supposed to know that when almost all of us haven't seen him play defense? He defended U18 Euro kids and Jared Sullinger who actually scored 22 points on 14 shots himself. I'm not saying he's going to be a defensive sieve, but questions/concerns are legitimate because we are all depending on a couple of lines from scouting reports.

So just because you don't have evidence otherwise you are just going to assume he's a poor defender.

I didn't say he's going to be a poor defender. I just wouldn't be surprised if he's not very good or very bad. Not sure how it is any different from you saying he's the best defender/rebounder in this draft without much evidence.

Listen folks, I admit Kanter hasn't played this past year, but prior to that he DOMINATED, let's not just discount that, that would be stupid.

Sure. He DOMINATED the U18 Euro championship and Jared Sullinger who had a very good game himself in an All Star game. No one's saying these are not great achievements, but they aren't great "evidences" compared to Valanciunas' Euroleague production or Biyombo's ACB production.

[HSOB SIRHC]

A while back I saw some highlights of an intriguing player that reminded me of Sammy D and then completely forgot his name when trying to look him up again. Someone on the Knicks forum posted a video of him and it's the same guy! Apparently he's entering in the draft.

One of the world’s most intriguing teenage centers – Brazilian 7-footer Lucas Nogueira – has entered his name into the June 23 NBA draft, a league source told Yahoo! Sports.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=ApAKBtwB6TTW0A4sfKl9QjM5nYcB?slug=aw-wojnarowski_brazilian_prospect_nba_draft_042311

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_-5fJFFzZc[/youtube]

Where do you guys think he'll go?