2014 NBA Draft Prospects Thread #5 | Raps picking 20th

[Indeed]

How much value do you guys put on hand size? It's been my latest obsession and I'm discovering a direct correlation between large hands and success in the NBA. Take Terrence Ross for example, a player limited by short arms yet he has very large hands that have allowed him to do some things he otherwise couldn't. Such as the dunk over Faried he was able to really cock that ball back and contort his body to avoid the block. Having large and and better control of the ball while in the air makes him a much better finisher. It also helps him get steals, make passes etc.

Now to main point. I was just looking over the 2014 combine hand measurements and Kyle Anderson a player I am very high on has very small hands relative to his size. Hand length is only 8.25" and hand width a measly 8.75". If you look at some of the best passers in the game (which is going to be Anderson's calling card) they nearly all have very large hands. Having big hands allows you to throw accurate one handed passes that you otherwise would not be able to.

I wish there was more data to look back on to backup my theory but I don't believe the NBA has been measuring hand size for very many years as I have found a lot of difficulty getting any data on some of the older players. What I've done instead is gone to google images and looked at players hands on a basketball to put it to scale to determine how large their hands are. Lol. Anyways just something to think about....

I prefer wingspan, because it affects both end of the floor. Big hands are mainly for bigs, where they can catch and score near the rim, such as PnR.
Wingspan - defense (intercept passes, block shot, contest shot, etc.) and scoring at rim
Leaping - block shot and scoring at rim (and hype)
Hand size - scoring at rim
Quickness - defense and perimeter offense

However, there are things that can't be described in physical stats. Still need to use eye test and box score stats to understand the skills.
3 point shooting, Hesitation moves (ankle breaking), and etc.

[Indeed]

How much value do you guys put on hand size? It's been my latest obsession and I'm discovering a direct correlation between large hands and success in the NBA. Take Terrence Ross for example, a player limited by short arms yet he has very large hands that have allowed him to do some things he otherwise couldn't. Such as the dunk over Faried he was able to really cock that ball back and contort his body to avoid the block. Having large and and better control of the ball while in the air makes him a much better finisher. It also helps him get steals, make passes etc.

Now to main point. I was just looking over the 2014 combine hand measurements and Kyle Anderson a player I am very high on has very small hands relative to his size. Hand length is only 8.25" and hand width a measly 8.75". If you look at some of the best passers in the game (which is going to be Anderson's calling card) they nearly all have very large hands. Having big hands allows you to throw accurate one handed passes that you otherwise would not be able to.

I wish there was more data to look back on to backup my theory but I don't believe the NBA has been measuring hand size for very many years as I have found a lot of difficulty getting any data on some of the older players. What I've done instead is gone to google images and looked at players hands on a basketball to put it to scale to determine how large their hands are. Lol. Anyways just something to think about....

If a lady you like asks you if the shoe size or hand size thing is true the only correct response is, "Only one way to find out." Wait. What are we talking about here. Oh yeah. Basketball.

I think the big hands thing is much more important for full time PFs and Cs. It helps them catch fast passes better in traffic, alley oops in traffic, and tip out rebounds. They haven't tested it long enough for your theory but considering that most of the league's best free throw shooters and 3 point shooters tend to be PGs and SGs there may actually be a small unknown advantage to not having Shaq hands when shooting the basketball. When you saw Shaq hold a basketball it was like an average person holding a tennis ball.

MCW's hand size measured out at 7.5 despite standing 6'6 and he was ROY. John Wall is 6'5 and even better but has 8.25. Kenneth Faried's hand size was 8.25 despite being 6'8. Dante Exum's was 8.5. Greg Monroe and Derrick Favors (6'10-6'11 guys) only measures out at 8'75. I'm sure if we had historical data we'd see fairly weak correlation between the two among guards and wings but stronger correlation for PFs and Cs.

Exactly my thought.

[Dukenukem23]

How much value do you guys put on hand size? It's been my latest obsession and I'm discovering a direct correlation between large hands and success in the NBA. Take Terrence Ross for example, a player limited by short arms yet he has very large hands that have allowed him to do some things he otherwise couldn't. Such as the dunk over Faried he was able to really cock that ball back and contort his body to avoid the block. Having large and and better control of the ball while in the air makes him a much better finisher. It also helps him get steals, make passes etc.

Now to main point. I was just looking over the 2014 combine hand measurements and Kyle Anderson a player I am very high on has very small hands relative to his size. Hand length is only 8.25" and hand width a measly 8.75". If you look at some of the best passers in the game (which is going to be Anderson's calling card) they nearly all have very large hands. Having big hands allows you to throw accurate one handed passes that you otherwise would not be able to.

I wish there was more data to look back on to backup my theory but I don't believe the NBA has been measuring hand size for very many years as I have found a lot of difficulty getting any data on some of the older players. What I've done instead is gone to google images and looked at players hands on a basketball to put it to scale to determine how large their hands are. Lol. Anyways just something to think about....

If a lady you like asks you if the shoe size or hand size thing is true the only correct response is, "Only one way to find out." Wait. What are we talking about here. Oh yeah. Basketball.

I think the big hands thing is much more important for full time PFs and Cs. It helps them catch fast passes better in traffic, alley oops in traffic, and tip out rebounds. They haven't tested it long enough for your theory but considering that most of the league's best free throw shooters and 3 point shooters tend to be PGs and SGs there may actually be a small unknown advantage to not having Shaq hands when shooting the basketball. When you saw Shaq hold a basketball it was like an average person holding a tennis ball.

MCW's hand size measured out at 7.5 despite standing 6'6 and he was ROY. John Wall is 6'5 and even better but has 8.25. Kenneth Faried's hand size was 8.25 despite being 6'8. Dante Exum's was 8.5. Greg Monroe and Derrick Favors (6'10-6'11 guys) only measures out at 8'75. I'm sure if we had historical data we'd see fairly weak correlation between the two among guards and wings but stronger correlation for PFs and Cs. But even then... Cory Joseph's 10.25 width puts Andre Drummond's 9.5 width to shame. It's worth knowing for PFs and Cs but it's still only one small piece of the puzzle.

Excellent points and thank you for some of those numbers I knew MCW had small hands but not that tiny, very surprising.

This whole idea started when I looked at what the elite players all had in common and wingspan, and to some degree standing reach were a marker for success but so was hand size. Kobe has large hands, Chris Paul, Blake Griffin, Dwane Wade, Lebron James, Russell Westbrook, Tim Duncan,Joakim Noah (amazing passer) and a plethora of other bigs. As you mentioned there are some such as MCW, Wall etc that have smaller hands and are successful but they aren't superstars.

Also to my original point about the passing....Chris Paul, Jason Kidd, Magic Johnson, some of the greatest passers the game has ever seen had very large hands relative to their size. I believe it's a better indicator for success with bigs but I also think it plays a determining factor in a players passing ability and whether you have true superstar potential. I can't think of one superstar off the top
Of my head that has small hands.

[Indeed]

This is one of the most interesting drafts in many years with maybe the greatest depth with quality players well into 2nd round. I have a feeling that Masai will secure another draft pick likely 23rd, 25th (2015st.) or 27th (NYKs 2016 1st). Players like Porzingis have as much if not more to be a star rather than players like Smart, LaVine and less of a bust than McDermott, Napier, Hood & Early. He has the height and potential skill set to be a player like AK47 with a touch of Dirk. Damn the thought of Jonas 6ft11 C & Kristaps 7ft PF together in a couple years sends shivers down my spine.

20th Porzingis, Anderson, Payton, Ennis
23rd, 25th or 27th Anderson. Payton, Ennis or Inglis (assuming we got a 2nd 1st)
37th Inglis, Bogdanovic, Adams, Bachynski
59th Bachynski, Powell, Birch, Ejim

People predict Porzingis and Payton will be ahead. Boston fans seem to be high on Porzingis (assume they didn't trade the pick for Love). I think both maybe picked around 15-20, since I think they are in the same tier.

Spurs fans have an eye on Inglis and Bogdanovic from their late 1st, so I don't think they will be there at #37. Inglis is not going to the Eurocamp combine, and people here suspect he is promised as a 1st rounder. Both Inglis and Bogdanovic maybe picked around 20-30, which will not surprise me.

Meanwhile, Powell won't be at #59. Suns seems to like him at #50. I will be happy to take Powell at #37, even he is a little bit older, and slightly soft playing at PF, but I think he can make up for it with his basketball IQ.

I am not surprised we use our #59 for trading up. Most likely trading up the #37 + #59 for #28 (Clippers), #26 (Heats) or #22 (Memphis)? Clippers, Heats and Memphis may not want to commit in salary.

[thunderforce]

I still want Inglis . He has it all , size , weight , strength , wingspan , agility , and huge hands .

[BillyGM]

I still want Inglis . He has it all , size , weight , strength , wingspan , agility , and huge hands .

but not offensive game

[Double Helix]

I still think we're all so accustomed to picking top 14 (when we've had picks) that many of us have forgotten a little that at 20... There are going to be question marks for everyone. Absolute busts this late in most drafts aren't uncommon but I actually think we stand a good shot at avoiding that this year. Who's the best pick past 20 we kept for a few seasons or more? Mo Pete? Believe it or not but I like our chances of bettering that in this draft.

3 of the following (at least) are likely to be there.

LaVine
Capella
Ennis
Warren
Anderson
Payton
Payne
McDaniels
Nurkic

Yes, they all have question marks. But the cool thing about this draft is that it's deep with rotation and potential starters and everybody has questions from 13 through 25. Some GMs are going to focus in on the wrong questions. Some might go safe and decide it's better to take a senior. Some may gamble on upside. Good thing we have a scout as a GM and an entirely new scouting staff, including the guy who snatched Giannis from us in Jeff Weltman. We're in a good position to sort though the rubble and go BPA. I'll be surprised if in a few years the guy we draft isn't a desirable player or trade assett. That would be pretty solid drafting from a division winner.

[Troubadour]

Updated Board:

#1: TJ Warren (must draft if available)

1. Adreian Payne
2. Elfrid Payton
3. PJ Hairston
4. Kyle Anderson

[CoachJReturns]

If we walk away from the draft with Adreian Payne or Ennis I'll be content. I don't expect either to be a star, but I think both will be rotational players at least. Payne can spread the floor and with his athleticism, he should be at least an ok defender for us. Maybe a more efficient Charlie V, who helps out on defense. That's not bad for the 20th pick. As for Ennis, he seems like a steady point guard, who won't ever be a star, but should give us some steady backup minutes. If he becomes a starter at some point, that's just a bonus for me. He'll be fine, but all the Tony Parker comparisons have to stop. Parker is one of the quickest point guards ever and shoots phenomenal percentages from the field for his position. Need to temper our expectations a little.

[CoachJReturns]

.[/quote]

Excellent points and thank you for some of those numbers I knew MCW had small hands but not that tiny, very surprising.

This whole idea started when I looked at what the elite players all had in common and wingspan, and to some degree standing reach were a marker for success but so was hand size. Kobe has large hands, Chris Paul, Blake Griffin, Dwane Wade, Lebron James, Russell Westbrook, Tim Duncan,Joakim Noah (amazing passer) and a plethora of other bigs. As you mentioned there are some such as MCW, Wall etc that have smaller hands and are successful but they aren't superstars.

Also to my original point about the passing....Chris Paul, Jason Kidd, Magic Johnson, some of the greatest passers the game has ever seen had very large hands relative to their size. I believe it's a better indicator for success with bigs but I also think it plays a determining factor in a players passing ability and whether you have true superstar potential. I can't think of one superstar off the top
Of my head that has small hands.[/quote]

Shawn Kemp was pretty amazing at his peak and had tiny hands. So much so that he couldn't win the dunk contest, despite being the league's number one highlight reel player.

[Volcano]

Excellent points and thank you for some of those numbers I knew MCW had small hands but not that tiny, very surprising.

This whole idea started when I looked at what the elite players all had in common and wingspan, and to some degree standing reach were a marker for success but so was hand size. Kobe has large hands, Chris Paul, Blake Griffin, Dwane Wade, Lebron James, Russell Westbrook, Tim Duncan,Joakim Noah (amazing passer) and a plethora of other bigs. As you mentioned there are some such as MCW, Wall etc that have smaller hands and are successful but they aren't superstars.

Also to my original point about the passing....Chris Paul, Jason Kidd, Magic Johnson, some of the greatest passers the game has ever seen had very large hands relative to their size. I believe it's a better indicator for success with bigs but I also think it plays a determining factor in a players passing ability and whether you have true superstar potential. I can't think of one superstar off the top
Of my head that has small hands.

Kobe has small hands and complained about his own small hands in the dunk contest because he couldn't palm the ball (or was it JRich, pretty sure it was him). At least in another interview he compared his small hands to Jordan's big hands.

Not sure about some of the other names you mentioned. Don't know where you're getting that they have large hands from.

Vince has large hands. It's been reported so and he always palming the ball during the game.

[Double Helix]

I remember hearing that Shawn Kemp couldn't palm a basketball very well for some reason. He liked alley-oops or two-handed jams.

[RINSE]

Excellent points and thank you for some of those numbers I knew MCW had small hands but not that tiny, very surprising.

This whole idea started when I looked at what the elite players all had in common and wingspan, and to some degree standing reach were a marker for success but so was hand size. Kobe has large hands, Chris Paul, Blake Griffin, Dwane Wade, Lebron James, Russell Westbrook, Tim Duncan,Joakim Noah (amazing passer) and a plethora of other bigs. As you mentioned there are some such as MCW, Wall etc that have smaller hands and are successful but they aren't superstars.

Also to my original point about the passing....Chris Paul, Jason Kidd, Magic Johnson, some of the greatest passers the game has ever seen had very large hands relative to their size. I believe it's a better indicator for success with bigs but I also think it plays a determining factor in a players passing ability and whether you have true superstar potential. I can't think of one superstar off the top
Of my head that has small hands.

Kobe has small hands and complained about his own small hands in the dunk contest because he couldn't palm the ball (or was it JRich, pretty sure it was him). At least in another interview he compared his small hands to Jordan's big hands.

Not sure about some of the other names you mentioned. Don't know where you're getting that they have large hands from.

Vince has large hands. It's been reported so and he always palming the ball during the game.

You're thinking about Steve Francis.

[Lukeem]

Excellent points and thank you for some of those numbers I knew MCW had small hands but not that tiny, very surprising.

This whole idea started when I looked at what the elite players all had in common and wingspan, and to some degree standing reach were a marker for success but so was hand size. Kobe has large hands, Chris Paul, Blake Griffin, Dwane Wade, Lebron James, Russell Westbrook, Tim Duncan,Joakim Noah (amazing passer) and a plethora of other bigs. As you mentioned there are some such as MCW, Wall etc that have smaller hands and are successful but they aren't superstars.

Also to my original point about the passing....Chris Paul, Jason Kidd, Magic Johnson, some of the greatest passers the game has ever seen had very large hands relative to their size. I believe it's a better indicator for success with bigs but I also think it plays a determining factor in a players passing ability and whether you have true superstar potential. I can't think of one superstar off the top
Of my head that has small hands.

Kobe has small hands and complained about his own small hands in the dunk contest because he couldn't palm the ball (or was it JRich, pretty sure it was him). At least in another interview he compared his small hands to Jordan's big hands.

Not sure about some of the other names you mentioned. Don't know where you're getting that they have large hands from.

Vince has large hands. It's been reported so and he always palming the ball during the game.

You're thinking about Steve Francis.

and Ricky Davis. ( underrated dunk contestant)

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[Lukeem]

I've gone up and down on a bunch of prospects for the raps at 20

I always belive in BPA but when you've got a whole tier of players that are at the same level you let the ones that will get the opportunity ( need) be the tie breaker, after all often it is comparing apples and oranges.

A couple players that might fall, which if closer inspection reveals they are a tier above we don't pass on. Tyler ennis, Anderson ( if Casey believes in his potential on defense) and Kristpas.


After that there should be a tonne of sfs in the same tier (Imo)

Early
McDaniels
Daniels
Robinson III
Inglis
Warren
Hood
Grant

I really wonder which of those would last till 37.

I doubt hood or Warren do but with the depth of sg/sf in this range the rest have a chance to and Cleanthony Early is right now who I'd like at 20 unless an absolute steal becomes available. I have a feeling he's too appealing as a complete role player ready to contribute. He has two knocks 1) age, which is a good late in thefirst cause you're signing a ready role player for cheap the next 4 years. 2) his lack of go to moves, this really just stunts his potential as a leading scorer. Which if you're looking for this late in the draft you're in trouble

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[God Squad]

Kj McDaniels?!

Or like Terrence Ross?

McDaniels is better defensively IMO and more athletic. Plus he is stronger.

How can a guy who has yet to play against an NBA team be better defensively than Ross? When Ross showed throughout the year he can be a lockdown defender? By no means am I a big Ross fan, but stuff like that bothers me.

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

I'm not so certain we're staying at 20. I think we'll definitely try to move up. If not, I think the pick is Elfrid Payton at 20. Upside, defensive acumen, potential with only being 20 yrs old. Heck, he might be gone by the time we pick.

[_venom_]

Guys I'd be fine with:

Ennis
Early
Warren
McDaniels
Porzingis
Capela
Inglis

Guys I don't want at all:

Hood
Payton
Napier
Payne
Grant
Robinson
Clarkson
Adams
Wilcox
Hairston

[Indeed]

I still want Inglis . He has it all , size , weight , strength , wingspan , agility , and huge hands .

but not offensive game

I think it is his lack of ball handling in the half court and not being the first option in a tougher competition. He is among the youngest prospect.

If you compare the same age of Kyle Anderson, I am not surprised Inglis can surpass him with his already developed passing/court vision. At least he is comparable with Batum in their first year.

[Raptorfan2012]

I'm not so certain we're staying at 20. I think we'll definitely try to move up. If not, I think the pick is Elfrid Payton at 20. Upside, defensive acumen, potential with only being 20 yrs old. Heck, he might be gone by the time we pick.

I don't think we have enough to move up. Our only real tradeable assets are Salmons and Hansborough affordable contracts, NYK 2016 pick, and 2nd rounders. I would be shocked if Demar, Jonas, or Ross are traded (maybe Amir? but Amir won't be able to fetch us a high lotto draft pick). More likely is that we will get another late first rounder (like LAC 28 or Suns 27) - as evident with Raptors bringing in so many projected late first round/early 2nd round players for workout.