Official Covid-19 Discussion Thread

[YelloC]

People want all the perks of living in a society, but don't want to make any of the necessary (mostly small) sacrifices required to live in a society. Seems as though there is a very high % of selfish and ignorant people living on this planet.

The lethal combination aside from Covid19 and co-morbidities is ignorance and arrogance, which are two of the hardest things to change in people.
Usually and unfortunately, the only thing that will influence those flaws in a positive way is adversity.

[ender]

"Deaths increased after lockdowns were imposed" because deaths lag infections and "lockdowns" (which actually mean a whole lot of differently applied restrictions) were imposed as infections began to rise. Not exactly rocket surgery. He tries to explain this away by arguing the virus was extremely wide spread before testing started to ramp up, but there isn't actually any good evidence for that. Just a whole lot of useless words.

Not to mention there is a 2-3 week lag time before deaths increase. More misinformation.

[Fairview4Life]

What exactly is "messed up" about it, if everyone is doing completely fine?

yea, everyone inside the bubble. Let's just ignore everything that's going on just outside the bubble

Jeez... sensationalize much? What's going on outside the bubble is 99% of people are going on living their lives.

Cool, so then everything’s fine and whining about “lockdowns” and masks can stop.

[gei]

yea, everyone inside the bubble. Let's just ignore everything that's going on just outside the bubble

Jeez... sensationalize much? What's going on outside the bubble is 99% of people are going on living their lives.

Cool, so then everything’s fine and whining about “lockdowns” and masks can stop.

Yes, and it has. Most things are open now and although mandatory mask laws are annoying, it looks like people are getting used to them. People who have taken a critical look at the data and realized that the virus primarily poses a risk to the elderly and sick will likely go on living their lives as before, and people who are easily influenced by the media (or are just generally paranoid in life) will be locked in their houses until there is a vaccine (and maybe whine here and there that we need to "shut down" the NBA).

[Dennis 37]

I still prefer if the next NBA Season normally started in 2 months, instead of this Bubble but whatever, not like I have any power.

On a more serious note, my younger Sister tested positive. She is sick and under isolation.

We took it seriously but sometimes it still happens. Its way more concerning when someone you know, has it.

I hope your sister has mild symptoms. According to a German study, 75% of people, who test positive for Covid 19, have myocarditis, inflammation of the lining of the heart. If severe, leads to blood clots, which are not good. Other studies point to kidney damage.

This is one reason we have to be more careful about Covid 19 than influenza. Unless one dies, long term consequences of getting influenza are minimal.

Having said that maybe this is a wake up call. When one is sick, one needs to stay home. Employers need to have sick day benefits for their employees.

Pre-Covid times, I heard a CBC radio show. A trucking firm initiated a paid sick day policy for a non-union trucking firm. It wasn't something the drivers fought for and won. Why did the employer do it? When sick drivers arrived for work, they spread their germs to other drivers. The company lost jobs because of unavailable drivers. It made more economic sense for them to pay people to stay home, than have them come to work, spread their germs, and have multiple drivers off sick when symptoms got bad enough they couldn't come in.. Even though the multiple drivers were not being paid.

Schools need to be the same. Sick children should not be arriving at school. Those children spread it to other children, who take it home and infect their parents, who, if they do not have a paid sick day benefit, go to work and infect colleagues.

[Dennis 37]

Jeez... sensationalize much? What's going on outside the bubble is 99% of people are going on living their lives.

Cool, so then everything’s fine and whining about “lockdowns” and masks can stop.

Yes, and it has. Most things are open now and although mandatory mask laws are annoying, it looks like people are getting used to them. People who have taken a critical look at the data and realized that the virus primarily poses a risk to the elderly and sick will likely go on living their lives as before, and people who are easily influenced by the media (or are just generally paranoid in life) will be locked in their houses until there is a vaccine (and maybe whine here and there that we need to "shut down" the NBA).

It is more deadly for the elderly. That does not mean younger people can relax.

Studies have shown that there will be life long consequences for a significant percentage of people recovering from the virus. People, who recover, are not all elderly.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/german-studies-indicate-long-term-covid-19-health-issues-1.4318036

Lingering problems among the patients ranged from signs of heart muscle inflammation and enlarged left ventricles to an impaired ability of the heart to pump blood to the rest of the body.
Many of these findings were consistent with patients having myocarditis, the study added, a condition which, in its severe form, can lead to heart failure or stroke, due to blood clots.
In 76 per cent of cases, the patient’s heart muscle contained detectable levels of troponin, a type of protein, which is considered another sign of heart damage. Some five patients had high levels of the protein, indicating serious heart problems.

https://www.poynter.org/reporting-editing/2020/new-data-shows-covid-19-can-cause-kidney-failure-and-launch-a-different-kind-of-epidemic/

46% of patients that were admitted to the hospital with COVID-19 since the beginning of the pandemic had some form of acute kidney injury; of those, 17% required urgent dialysis.

Surprisingly, 82% of patients that got an acute kidney injury had no history of kidney issues; 18% did. More than a third of patients that survived did not recover the same kidney function they had before contracting the virus.

[RoLo]

yea, everyone inside the bubble. Let's just ignore everything that's going on just outside the bubble

Jeez... sensationalize much? What's going on outside the bubble is 99% of people are going on living their lives.

Cool, so then everything’s fine and whining about “lockdowns” and masks can stop.

dont engage with a moron of his caliber

https://forums.redflagdeals.com/us-has-lowest-daily-covid-death-toll-since-march-2384839/

he peddles his crap elsewhere and wont change his opinion. hes a certified dumb ass. gei

This weekend the US posted the lowest daily COVID death-toll since late March, and the trend is continuing downward. This is excellent news, and hopefully they can get this down to as close to zero as possible.

"But wait the media tells me cases are spiking in XYZ state and there is gonna be a second wave and we're all gonna die?!?!". Unlikely. The US is doing a much higher volume of tests now than before, and testing a larger volume of people for whom the virus poses no real risk (ie the young and healthy).

I don't doubt there are going to be a bunch of replies from the pro-fear crew telling us why we should all be afraid and why the US is doomed, but the fact is, in the US, fewer and fewer people are dying of coronavirus - there is no arguing this fact.

[Dennis 37]

Jeez... sensationalize much? What's going on outside the bubble is 99% of people are going on living their lives.

Cool, so then everything’s fine and whining about “lockdowns” and masks can stop.

dont engage with a moron of his caliber

https://forums.redflagdeals.com/us-has-lowest-daily-covid-death-toll-since-march-2384839/

he peddles his crap elsewhere and wont change his opinion. hes a certified dumb ass. gei

This weekend the US posted the lowest daily COVID death-toll since late March, and the trend is continuing downward. This is excellent news, and hopefully they can get this down to as close to zero as possible.

"But wait the media tells me cases are spiking in XYZ state and there is gonna be a second wave and we're all gonna die?!?!". Unlikely. The US is doing a much higher volume of tests now than before, and testing a larger volume of people for whom the virus poses no real risk (ie the young and healthy).

I don't doubt there are going to be a bunch of replies from the pro-fear crew telling us why we should all be afraid and why the US is doomed, but the fact is, in the US, fewer and fewer people are dying of coronavirus - there is no arguing this fact.

This "pro-fear" narrative is nonsense. It is as if these nutcases have an organization that sends out talking points because so many use this "pro-fear" position.

Nobody is afraid. Nobody gets more afraid when they see statistics. People get angry when politicians ignore science, because their stupidity and lack of planning does not promote confidence.

One day this week 1500 people died. Today's deaths are 1190. They fluctuate daily, but you have to look at trends.

When you look at this graph, deaths are not trending down. They may do so in the future, but right now they are not trending down. Even if they were, are we to celebrate 170,000 deaths as a success? Not sure why the Covid-deniers bring up the number of tests. You don't have less people dying if you do less tests. You don't fill fewer ICU beds if you do fewer tests. Nobody cares that the US finds the most cases. What people care about is the number of severely sick or dead people.

[YelloC]

Cool, so then everything’s fine and whining about “lockdowns” and masks can stop.

dont engage with a moron of his caliber

https://forums.redflagdeals.com/us-has-lowest-daily-covid-death-toll-since-march-2384839/

he peddles his crap elsewhere and wont change his opinion. hes a certified dumb ass. gei

This weekend the US posted the lowest daily COVID death-toll since late March, and the trend is continuing downward. This is excellent news, and hopefully they can get this down to as close to zero as possible.

"But wait the media tells me cases are spiking in XYZ state and there is gonna be a second wave and we're all gonna die?!?!". Unlikely. The US is doing a much higher volume of tests now than before, and testing a larger volume of people for whom the virus poses no real risk (ie the young and healthy).

I don't doubt there are going to be a bunch of replies from the pro-fear crew telling us why we should all be afraid and why the US is doomed, but the fact is, in the US, fewer and fewer people are dying of coronavirus - there is no arguing this fact.

This "pro-fear" narrative is nonsense. It is as if these nutcases have an organization that sends out talking points because so many use this "pro-fear" position.

Nobody is afraid. Nobody gets more afraid when they see statistics. People get angry when politicians ignore science, because their stupidity and lack of planning does not promote confidence.

One day this week 1500 people died. Today's deaths are 1190. They fluctuate daily, but you have to look at trends.

When you look at this graph, deaths are not trending down. They may do so in the future, but right now they are not trending down. Even if they were, are we to celebrate 170,000 deaths as a success? Not sure why the Covid-deniers bring up the number of tests. You don't have less people dying if you do less tests. You don't fill fewer ICU beds if you do fewer tests. Nobody cares that the US finds the most cases. What people care about is the number of severely sick or dead people.

What kind of life does someone have if they’re frequenting RedFlagDeals forums.

[execoftheyear]

Cool, so then everything’s fine and whining about “lockdowns” and masks can stop.

dont engage with a moron of his caliber

https://forums.redflagdeals.com/us-has-lowest-daily-covid-death-toll-since-march-2384839/

he peddles his crap elsewhere and wont change his opinion. hes a certified dumb ass. gei

This weekend the US posted the lowest daily COVID death-toll since late March, and the trend is continuing downward. This is excellent news, and hopefully they can get this down to as close to zero as possible.

"But wait the media tells me cases are spiking in XYZ state and there is gonna be a second wave and we're all gonna die?!?!". Unlikely. The US is doing a much higher volume of tests now than before, and testing a larger volume of people for whom the virus poses no real risk (ie the young and healthy).

I don't doubt there are going to be a bunch of replies from the pro-fear crew telling us why we should all be afraid and why the US is doomed, but the fact is, in the US, fewer and fewer people are dying of coronavirus - there is no arguing this fact.

This "pro-fear" narrative is nonsense. It is as if these nutcases have an organization that sends out talking points because so many use this "pro-fear" position.

Nobody is afraid. Nobody gets more afraid when they see statistics. People get angry when politicians ignore science, because their stupidity and lack of planning does not promote confidence.

One day this week 1500 people died. Today's deaths are 1190. They fluctuate daily, but you have to look at trends.

When you look at this graph, deaths are not trending down. They may do so in the future, but right now they are not trending down. Even if they were, are we to celebrate 170,000 deaths as a success? Not sure why the Covid-deniers bring up the number of tests. You don't have less people dying if you do less tests. You don't fill fewer ICU beds if you do fewer tests. Nobody cares that the US finds the most cases. What people care about is the number of severely sick or dead people.

I think this video sums up what's going on in Florida/US pretty well.

Watch on YouTube

I mentioned it earlier in this thread. Ever since hospitals were told to report cases to the white house rather than the CDC, cases coincidentally started to decrease. From here on out, I take the number of cases reported from the US with a grain of salt. It's clearly become political which is funny because the US were complaining about China's under-reporting earlier on.

[dohboy_24]

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[Kevin Willis]

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/87812

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[Vaclac]

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As I've said earlier I think population heterogeneity explains a larger amount of the difference between the 60-70% threshold and the 10-20% threshold we're actually seeing than T cells do, but regardless of what the biggest resson why is, its clear from the actual data that the 60-70% threshold is just not accurate.

[tecumseh18]

According to a German study, 75% of people, who test positive for Covid 19, have myocarditis, inflammation of the lining of the heart. If severe, leads to blood clots, which are not good. Other studies point to kidney damage.

This is one reason we have to be more careful about Covid 19 than influenza. Unless one dies, long term consequences of getting influenza are minimal.

This is the thing that fuels conspiracy theorists. Old, fat people dying, or an overall infection fatality rate of <0.5% does not seem to be enough of a motivation for many to go along with "shutting down the economy" or requiring masks ... let alone vaccination passports with a Bill Gates emoji embossed on the front. We need more stats about the long-term consequences of infection short of death. The threat of permanent lung scarring or heart damage would be added motivation. But what percent of the infected get such symptoms? BTW, myocarditis by itelf is not a killer, and can rectify itself relatively quickly, Or not.

[I]n many typically healthy adults with uncomplicated coxsackievirus myocarditis, symptoms can start to improve over a couple weeks. In other cases, the heart takes a few months to recover. Sometimes, the damage to the heart muscle is permanent and heart failure persists after the inflammation has resolved.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/a_to_z/myocarditis-a-to-z

Again, what are the exact stats? In a democracy, we need to know this stuff so that our leaders can continue to make decisions with popular consent.

Eric Bledsoe still doesn't seem 100% a month after the announcement that he contracted it.

[ruckus]

Read on Twitter

While I have to do my own research to look into these claims, Dr. James Todoro is a non-practicing opthamologist that is now working as an investment manager. So while this gentleman is in fact a doctor, he is not an epidiomologist nor an expert in infectious diseases.

That being said, there may be some truth in what he is saying. Just wanted you to be aware of the credentials of the source.

[Dennis 37]

According to a German study, 75% of people, who test positive for Covid 19, have myocarditis, inflammation of the lining of the heart. If severe, leads to blood clots, which are not good. Other studies point to kidney damage.

This is one reason we have to be more careful about Covid 19 than influenza. Unless one dies, long term consequences of getting influenza are minimal.

This is the thing that fuels conspiracy theorists. Old, fat people dying, or an overall infection fatality rate of <0.5% does not seem to be enough of a motivation for many to go along with "shutting down the economy" or requiring masks ... let alone vaccination passports with a Bill Gates emoji embossed on the front. We need more stats about the long-term consequences of infection short of death. The threat of permanent lung scarring or heart damage would be added motivation. But what percent of the infected get such symptoms? BTW, myocarditis by itelf is not a killer, and can rectify itself relatively quickly, Or not.

[I]n many typically healthy adults with uncomplicated coxsackievirus myocarditis, symptoms can start to improve over a couple weeks. In other cases, the heart takes a few months to recover. Sometimes, the damage to the heart muscle is permanent and heart failure persists after the inflammation has resolved.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/a_to_z/myocarditis-a-to-z

Again, what are the exact stats? In a democracy, we need to know this stuff so that our leaders can continue to make decisions with popular consent.

Eric Bledsoe still doesn't seem 100% a month after the announcement that he contracted it.

The problem with science is that it doesn't fit our schedule. Data isn't always available, or peer reviewed, when we need it most.

[Johnny Bball]

I think this video sums up what's going on in Florida/US pretty well.

Watch on YouTube

I mentioned it earlier in this thread. Ever since hospitals were told to report cases to the white house rather than the CDC, cases coincidentally started to decrease. From here on out, I take the number of cases reported from the US with a grain of salt. It's clearly become political which is funny because the US were complaining about China's under-reporting earlier on.

Yep. They are now 100% lying to the public and it's going to cause more deaths.

As soon as Trump is done in office, the NY district attorney will hopefully have enough to put him in jail when everyone scurries and tries to protect their own backside. And that isn't conspiracy... that is all they are waiting for and wanting to do.

[BBallInSight]

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Earlier sciam article making the same point.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/comparing-covid-19-deaths-to-flu-deaths-is-like-comparing-apples-to-oranges/

If every time someone died, we gave them a test for the flu, and if it showed positive we marked the death caused by the flu, we'd certainly have these sorts of numbers associated with the flu. There has been too little distinction between died of and died with. Also, even with 5x more deaths, I wouldn't say it's worth imploding society with lockdowns.

Here's the problem with your theory. People sick enough to die from the flu usually find their way to the hospital...and once there they are swabbed for a flu. Flu swabs return quickly so quantifying the numbers of flu deaths is happening. Those that aren't sick enough to be a death's door are usually at home and will pull through. Sooo...there goes your theory.

But think of ALL of the people in the community asymptomatic or symptomatic with covid and they were just never offered a test because the criteria was too stringent or there just weren't enough tests available. There could be thousands more that have or had covid and the case number is probably even higher.

I actually didn't see this response until just now. I wasn't talking about people dying of the flu. I'm talking about people dying of whatever, and they happened to have the flu, now, or in the last couple months (apparently the PCR test tends to show positive even months after recovery). That's how they're coding covid deaths. This is the first time they've used this sort of data policy for tracking a pandemic.

[Fairview4Life]

I actually didn't see this response until just now. I wasn't talking about people dying of the flu. I'm talking about people dying of whatever, and they happened to have the flu, now, or in the last couple months (apparently the PCR test tends to show positive even months after recovery). That's how they're coding covid deaths. This is the first time they've used this sort of data policy for tracking a pandemic.

Dying and having Covid in your system isn't how they are coding a death as Covid. Like all pandemics, Covid deaths are being initially under counted and the numbers will increase as stats people look back at excess deaths and start crunching numbers in the next 3-5 years.

[BBallInSight]

I actually didn't see this response until just now. I wasn't talking about people dying of the flu. I'm talking about people dying of whatever, and they happened to have the flu, now, or in the last couple months (apparently the PCR test tends to show positive even months after recovery). That's how they're coding covid deaths. This is the first time they've used this sort of data policy for tracking a pandemic.

Dying and having Covid in your system isn't how they are coding a death as Covid. Like all pandemics, Covid deaths are being initially under counted and the numbers will increase as stats people look back at excess deaths and start crunching numbers in the next 3-5 years.

I guess you haven't read the Ontario guidelines. Here's what it says regarding the covid death count:

"Deaths are included whether or not COVID-19 was determined to be a contributing or underlying cause of death as indicated in the iPHIS field 'Type of Death'."
https://www.ontario.ca/page/how-ontario-is-responding-covid-19

In fact, in a LTHC facility with one confirmed case (backed by a test), which they call an "outbreak", all subsequent deaths are labelled covid if the patient has at least one covid symptom. I wonder why we had so many covid deaths in those facilities.

So how exactly are they undercounting deaths?