Tank World Order (The Remix Vol. IV)

[OakleyDokely]

With the exception of SA (who has a strong chance of two top 10 picks), no other bottom 7 team is trying to win. In fact, I would argue that each is intentionally putting themselves in position to lose every night. It's crazy how badly each team is losing every night lol.

This race to the bottom is hilarious. At some point Memphis has to win a game, right?

This should be enough evidence that this draft is not weak, at least at the top. These FO must know there is talent worth losing every game for in this draft.

But "anytime you can get a starting center for a FRP you do it" -Masai

The system currently rewards losing once you're out of the playoff picture, so it really doesn't matter how strong the draft is.

[MiamiSPX]

These games involving the bottom 7 teams are completely unwatchable.

I would make the lottery odds completely flat for all lottery teams. The bottom 14 teams all get a 7% chance at the #1 pick. I wouldn't even be against giving smaller odds to the lower seeded playoff teams. You shouldn't be rewarded for dressing gleague rosters for the last 1/4 of the season.

Our game on Saturday against Washington is going to be unwatchable. Devlin is going to have to really reach down deep into his bag of tricks for that one.

[DelAbbot]

With the exception of SA (who has a strong chance of two top 10 picks), no other bottom 7 team is trying to win. In fact, I would argue that each is intentionally putting themselves in position to lose every night. It's crazy how badly each team is losing every night lol.

This race to the bottom is hilarious. At some point Memphis has to win a game, right?

This should be enough evidence that this draft is not weak, at least at the top. These FO must know there is talent worth losing every game for in this draft.

But "anytime you can get a starting center for a FRP you do it" -Masai

The system currently rewards losing once you're out of the playoff picture, so it really doesn't matter how strong the draft is.

There is still the optics of losing 10+ in a row / being a bottom 3 record, that makes the FO look bad and less job security. They wouldn't be doing it without some rewards in the sense that the talent at the top of 2024 draft is good enough to risk this.

[OakleyDokely]

This should be enough evidence that this draft is not weak, at least at the top. These FO must know there is talent worth losing every game for in this draft.

But "anytime you can get a starting center for a FRP you do it" -Masai

The system currently rewards losing once you're out of the playoff picture, so it really doesn't matter how strong the draft is.

There is still the optics of losing 10+ in a row / being a bottom 3 record, that makes the FO look bad and less job security. They wouldn't be doing it without some rewards in the sense that the talent at the top of 2024 draft is good enough to risk this.

But this happens every year regardless of the draft strength.

I'd argue most mediocre execs keep their jobs because they sell hope and potential that comes with high draft picks. It's a lot easier to get high draft picks than build a winning team.

[ItsDanger]

The teams picking 7th know one thing, it is better to pick 1st.

[vaaron]

started to late for a good tank job and now it looks like the spurs might get their highest possible pick. really need some ping pong magic for a good pick.

[OakleyDokely]

My lottery system would be:

Top 6 seeds (12 teams total): 0% odds
4 play-in teams (8 teams total): 2.5% odds
Bottom 10 teams: 8% odds

The bottom teams shouldn't be competing to see who can dress the worst lineups, so give them all equal odds. You also want to incentivize the middle tier of the NBA to go for those play-in positions, so I'd give them lottery odds as well. The best teams in the NBA aren't included.

[MessiahUjiri]

My lottery system would be:

Top 6 seeds (12 teams total): 0% odds
4 play-in teams (8 teams total): 2.5% odds
Bottom 10 teams: 8% odds

The bottom teams shouldn't be competing to see who can dress the worst lineups, so give them all equal odds. You also want to incentivize the middle tier of the NBA to go for those play-in positions, so I'd give them lottery odds as well. The best teams in the NBA aren't included.

Bad teams need to be able to get better odds. I think that’s not the problem.

The problem is that teams can be cheap with salary and put out a bad product, and collect free money from the Luxury Tax pool.

My solution would be: The worst team in each conference should be ineligible to get money from the Luxury Tax pool, since they did not put a good product on the floor.

[YogurtProducer]

These games involving the bottom 7 teams are completely unwatchable.

I would make the lottery odds completely flat for all lottery teams. The bottom 14 teams all get a 7% chance at the #1 pick. I wouldn't even be against giving smaller odds to the lower seeded playoff teams. You shouldn't be rewarded for dressing gleague rosters for the last 1/4 of the season.

Yeah like this **** is completely unwatchable and is kind of disgusting as a fan of the NBA.

I liked the idea some guy posted on The General Board. The premise was that after 58 games (home and home against everyone) the league breaks into 3 tiers - top 10, middle 10, bottom 10. The lottery odds are set at that time (I think it was equal for the bottom 10?) and then the last 24 games of the year are solely against your tier.

The top 10 fight for playoff seeding, the middle ten fight for a guaranteed playoff spot, and then the top 2 bottom 10 teams make the play-in or something.

It was a lot better thought out, but I actually loved it. It gave zero incentive to lose games, and took out the "tanking" completely.

[ArthurVandelay]

These games involving the bottom 7 teams are completely unwatchable.

I would make the lottery odds completely flat for all lottery teams. The bottom 14 teams all get a 7% chance at the #1 pick. I wouldn't even be against giving smaller odds to the lower seeded playoff teams. You shouldn't be rewarded for dressing gleague rosters for the last 1/4 of the season.

I don't think that ever happens but another flattening of the odds would be interesting.

Actually, flatten the odds a little more and make the lottery top 6.

[Scase]

With the exception of SA (who has a strong chance of two top 10 picks), no other bottom 7 team is trying to win. In fact, I would argue that each is intentionally putting themselves in position to lose every night. It's crazy how badly each team is losing every night lol.

This race to the bottom is hilarious. At some point Memphis has to win a game, right?

This should be enough evidence that this draft is not weak, at least at the top. These FO must know there is talent worth losing every game for in this draft.

But "anytime you can get a starting center for a FRP you do it" -Masai

I think it is less praise for that draft class, and more about the fact that once you are out of the play-in picture, wins are absolutely meaningless, so you might as well go for the worst record possible. A high draft pick in a mediocre year, is still better than a mid pick.

[Scase]

My lottery system would be:

Top 6 seeds (12 teams total): 0% odds
4 play-in teams (8 teams total): 2.5% odds
Bottom 10 teams: 8% odds

The bottom teams shouldn't be competing to see who can dress the worst lineups, so give them all equal odds. You also want to incentivize the middle tier of the NBA to go for those play-in positions, so I'd give them lottery odds as well. The best teams in the NBA aren't included.

I'm not a fan of them being completely flat for the bottom 10, but I'm not opposed to the idea of flattening it a bit more. Some teams are just flat out bad, we are actually a great example of that. Scottie, busted hand. Jak, busted hand. RJ, death in the family. IQ, personal reasons.

3 of those 4 (4, if IQ is out supporting RJ) are issues that are 100% unavoidable by the team, and if they didn't happen all 3 of them would likely be playing to this day. But due to bad luck, we'd be given the same chance to win a pick as a team on the edge of the playoffs. Further flattening I think would benefit the teams still trying, but not penalize teams that got a bad shake.

The Grizz shouldn't be penalized, they have actually been trying and winning, but their entire roster basically died like they were a Brazilian soccer team in the Alps lol. They are objectively putting in more effort than say, the hawks, but would be 4 places lower and still have the same chance? I dunno, doesn't sit right with me.

Flattening it a bit more would definitely penalize teams like CHO who are just blatant, while also giving other teams a better chance.

[LoveMyRaps]

You're telling me Bane, JJJ and GG can't win a single game. Come on man that's crazy work.

It's not like they were winning anything earlier in the season when they had everyone minus Adams + Morant.

[OakleyDokely]

NBA just needs a relegation system.

NBA League 1: Top 15 teams compete for championship, with the top 8 teams making the playoffs. Bottom 4 teams are relegated to League 2.

NBA League 2: Bottom 15 compete for promotion to League 1. The top 4 teams move up to League 1, the bottom 11 teams enter the lottery.

[YogurtProducer]

My lottery system would be:

Top 6 seeds (12 teams total): 0% odds
4 play-in teams (8 teams total): 2.5% odds
Bottom 10 teams: 8% odds

The bottom teams shouldn't be competing to see who can dress the worst lineups, so give them all equal odds. You also want to incentivize the middle tier of the NBA to go for those play-in positions, so I'd give them lottery odds as well. The best teams in the NBA aren't included.

I'm not a fan of them being completely flat for the bottom 10, but I'm not opposed to the idea of flattening it a bit more. Some teams are just flat out bad, we are actually a great example of that. Scottie, busted hand. Jak, busted hand. RJ, death in the family. IQ, personal reasons.

3 of those 4 (4, if IQ is out supporting RJ) are issues that are 100% unavoidable by the team, and if they didn't happen all 3 of them would likely be playing to this day. But due to bad luck, we'd be given the same chance to win a pick as a team on the edge of the playoffs. Further flattening I think would benefit the teams still trying, but not penalize teams that got a bad shake.

The Grizz shouldn't be penalized, they have actually been trying and winning, but their entire roster basically died like they were a Brazilian soccer team in the Alps lol. They are objectively putting in more effort than say, the hawks, but would be 4 places lower and still have the same chance? I dunno, doesn't sit right with me.

Flattening it a bit more would definitely penalize teams like CHO who are just blatant, while also giving other teams a better chance.

But flattening is also gets rid of the incentive to be bad. Teams would build their teams differently which would lead to prospects entering better situations from day 1 which in turn should improve the product all together.

And I kind of disagree with "some teams are just flat out bad, we are actually a great example of that". You had to go on and list 4 guys who are out for a variety of reasons for that to happen. This team fully healthy is really far from "flat out bad" and if we end up with a top pick is more a combination of a bunch of factors, but down the stretch bad luck is really the main one.

I just generally prefer the lottery being flatter because you get rid of the tanking incentive. Teams would start being more like Houton where they would sign vets and actually try and be okay. That is just good for the league and you cannot say FVV/Brooks is not good for Jalen Green / Smith Jr / Thompson as well.

[YogurtProducer]

NBA just needs a relegation system.

NBA League 1: Top 15 teams compete for championship, with the top 8 teams making the playoffs. Bottom 4 teams are relegated to League 2.

NBA League 2: Bottom 15 compete for promotion to League 1. The top 4 teams move up to League 1, the bottom 11 teams enter the lottery.

Will never happen. Imagine if SA next year makes a ton of move and is the new OKC and is winning 50 games with Wemby in 2024-25. But they cannot make the playoffs because of some stupid relegation thing?

[OakleyDokely]

NBA just needs a relegation system.

NBA League 1: Top 15 teams compete for championship, with the top 8 teams making the playoffs. Bottom 4 teams are relegated to League 2.

NBA League 2: Bottom 15 compete for promotion to League 1. The top 4 teams move up to League 1, the bottom 11 teams enter the lottery.

Will never happen. Imagine if SA next year makes a ton of move and is the new OKC and is winning 50 games with Wemby in 2024-25. But they cannot make the playoffs because of some stupid relegation thing?

Okay, top team in league 2 is added to the league 1 playoffs.

[YogurtProducer]

NBA just needs a relegation system.

NBA League 1: Top 15 teams compete for championship, with the top 8 teams making the playoffs. Bottom 4 teams are relegated to League 2.

NBA League 2: Bottom 15 compete for promotion to League 1. The top 4 teams move up to League 1, the bottom 11 teams enter the lottery.

Will never happen. Imagine if SA next year makes a ton of move and is the new OKC and is winning 50 games with Wemby in 2024-25. But they cannot make the playoffs because of some stupid relegation thing?

Okay, top team in league 2 is added to the league 1 playoffs.

More likely to me would be if they like had a mid-season shuffle or something. Like after so many games at the 41 game mark the top 2 teams in B moved up.

I still think the best option is the mid-season relegation type thing I posted earlier. Added benefit is we get more marquee matchup games in the regular season which I think is a good thing to.

[OakleyDokely]

Will never happen. Imagine if SA next year makes a ton of move and is the new OKC and is winning 50 games with Wemby in 2024-25. But they cannot make the playoffs because of some stupid relegation thing?

Okay, top team in league 2 is added to the league 1 playoffs.

More likely to me would be if they like had a mid-season shuffle or something. Like after so many games at the 41 game mark the top 2 teams in B moved up.

I still think the best option is the mid-season relegation type thing I posted earlier. Added benefit is we get more marquee matchup games in the regular season which I think is a good thing to.

I know this format will never happen, but I just find so many games now are completely meaningless with a bunch of teams not even trying.

Maybe just shortening the regular season would help. The tourney seemed to be a success, so maybe they can expand that in some way.

[YogurtProducer]

Okay, top team in league 2 is added to the league 1 playoffs.

More likely to me would be if they like had a mid-season shuffle or something. Like after so many games at the 41 game mark the top 2 teams in B moved up.

I still think the best option is the mid-season relegation type thing I posted earlier. Added benefit is we get more marquee matchup games in the regular season which I think is a good thing to.

I know this format will never happen, but I just find so many games now are completely meaningless with a bunch of teams not even trying.

Maybe just shortening the regular season would help. The tourney seemed to be a success, so maybe they can expand that in some way.

In my opinion it is not as far fetched as you think... fans, management, media, etc. all know the tanking thing is an issue. There are a few key principles though to fix blatant tanking (like we are doing now).

1) Lottery odds need to be flattened. If there is no meaningful difference between being 21st or 30th you won't see these massive strip downs take place. Like you said earlier, just give the same odds to every team to miss the playoffs.

While you are at it, draw for the top 5 or 6 instead of top 4. Just because you are bad should not give you a top 5 pick guaranteed.

2) Give incentive to games down the stretch. Currently - once you are out of the playoffs you have literally NOTHING to play for and have legit incentive to LOSE. There are a few ways to counter this:

a) set it up like that guy on The General Board suggested. Lock in lottery odds earlier so that teams down the stretch do not have incentive to lose.

b) do something like the new womens hockey league is doing. Once you are "mathematically" eliminated, you start to earn points for every win you get. So right now, only 5 teams are "eliminated". Those 5 teams would earn 1 "lottery point" for every win they get the rest of the season. The team with the most lottery points gets the top pick in the draft (or the best odds, whatever you want).