Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 8

[Vampirate]

He's been worse this year than last year. That's just statistically true.

It's really just the 3 ball.

Inside the Arc he's been objectively better.

On his 2 point shots he's at 54.7% overall this year, last year it was 53.6%

[Tripod]

So Banes is playing with recovering ankles, quad tightness and knee soreness. That matches the eye test on how he is running, not going after certain blocks, etc...

I do wish they would give him a week or 2 off but with the illness going thru the team, that may not make sense.

But since his ankle injury he has essentially has his "season worst" in each category....pts, sh%, 3pt%, reb, asts, TO, etc... It's not a coincidence that ALL of those have happened since then.

When Darko mentions that Barnes is not playing with a PG...it also means who is getting Barnes a few easy buckets. He often creates them for others but doesn't get them back.

And I think with them last year getting the ball in IQ's hands as a PG more, it's all part of the process. Possibly any possession any of RJ, IQ or Barnes can be a creator for the others. Plus who knows, the draft could land us a PG but these guys being better passers or creators is good for development.

Lots of moving pieces and it will continue thru the year. They might not all fit long term but that's a road to deal with later.

[Scase]

Darko can say whatever excuses he wants for Scottie. It still doesn’t change the fact that Scottie is unable to bend defences, being a great passer isn’t good enough.

He needs to be able to play make and that only comes with being a downhill threat with the ball in his hands otherwise you’re essentially just a souped up version of Draymond Green on offence. Don’t get me wrong, any team would love to have that but it’s not lead ball handler material.

We are intentionally putting Scottie and RJ into those situations ... That's not one workout and he's Magic Johnson."

My guy, plz.

[anotherhomer]

So Banes is playing with recovering ankles, quad tightness and knee soreness. That matches the eye test on how he is running, not going after certain blocks, etc...

I do wish they would give him a week or 2 off but with the illness going thru the team, that may not make sense.

But since his ankle injury he has essentially has his "season worst" in each category....pts, sh%, 3pt%, reb, asts, TO, etc... It's not a coincidence that ALL of those have happened since then.

When Darko mentions that Barnes is not playing with a PG...it also means who is getting Barnes a few easy buckets. He often creates them for others but doesn't get them back.

And I think with them last year getting the ball in IQ's hands as a PG more, it's all part of the process. Possibly any possession any of RJ, IQ or Barnes can be a creator for the others. Plus who knows, the draft could land us a PG but these guys being better passers or creators is good for development.

Lots of moving pieces and it will continue thru the year. They might not all fit long term but that's a road to deal with later.

it's tough....but i think this is one of the growing pains we'll have to live with

[Thaddy]

He's been worse this year than last year. That's just statistically true.

It's really just the 3 ball.

Inside the Arc he's been objectively better.

On his 2 point shots he's at 54.7% overall this year, last year it was 53.6%

Yeah that's what I meant. I'm glad he's grinding away and 35% of his FGA are 3s though. It's a way to grow and he has to learn how to get through the tough shooting stretches. I'm hoping it's more his ankle than him being cold.

He's 4/23 in the last 5 games from 3P range.

[HangTime]

He's been worse this year than last year. That's just statistically true.

It's really just the 3 ball.

Inside the Arc he's been objectively better.

On his 2 point shots he's at 54.7% overall this year, last year it was 53.6%

Yeah that's what I meant. I'm glad he's grinding away and 35% of his FGA are 3s though. It's a way to grow and he has to learn how to get through the tough shooting stretches. I'm hoping it's more his ankle than him being cold.

He's 4/23 in the last 5 games from 3P range.

Last year, I think the 3 point shooting fell off because he was taking on OG's defencive role.

This season, it's the foot and eye(orbital) injury.

[HumbleRen]

Darko can say whatever excuses he wants for Scottie. It still doesn’t change the fact that Scottie is unable to bend defences, being a great passer isn’t good enough.

He needs to be able to play make and that only comes with being a downhill threat with the ball in his hands otherwise you’re essentially just a souped up version of Draymond Green on offence. Don’t get me wrong, any team would love to have that but it’s not lead ball handler material.

We are intentionally putting Scottie and RJ into those situations ... That's not one workout and he's Magic Johnson."

My guy, plz.

Such a yes man lol.

[TorontoBarneys]

Jokic became a 26+ scorer his age 25 season. Before that he spent 4 seasons hovering around 16-20 points per game. He has mentioned how it took awhile for his mentality to change, from being pass first team player to a 1st option scorer. I am not saying Scottie is as good as Jokic. But I strongly believe he can and will become a 24+ level scorer with the right development.

Unless Barnes is legitimately not bright, it shouldn't be super hard to put two and two together at this point. You're not willing to be the top dog on this team despite the fact that you know you are the most gifted one on the roster right now, and the result is your team being 7-25. Your lead scorer is RJ.

Put the pieces together - it ain't working out bud. Passing is cool, but it's time to evolve. And don't give me that "we're tanking/we're in a development season" horsechit, that's not something that should be on a player's mind. That's for the FO and coaching staff. His job is to win every time he steps on the court, and his thinking should reflect that entirely.

[Blazing_royale]

He looks regressed this year. Doesn't deserve to be all star.

[Los_29]

It’s been a bad year for Scottie but it’s been a year in which he’s been injured multiple times and has had to play with a lot of different lineups. He’s had a lot of sloppy turnovers this year which is something he needs to do a better job of limiting.

IQ might be our best scorer. And hopefully becomes our 2nd best next year after our draft pick. Barnes might be able to be the 2nd best player on a championship team but will likely need to be the team’s 3rd option. If the efficiency doesn’t improve then you’ll have to scale down his usage.

[canada_dry]

Jokic became a 26+ scorer his age 25 season. Before that he spent 4 seasons hovering around 16-20 points per game. He has mentioned how it took awhile for his mentality to change, from being pass first team player to a 1st option scorer. I am not saying Scottie is as good as Jokic. But I strongly believe he can and will become a 24+ level scorer with the right development.

Jokic had all the skills to score like that though whereas Its a big question mark with scottie. Totally different circumstances.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

[Los_29]

Jokic became a 26+ scorer his age 25 season. Before that he spent 4 seasons hovering around 16-20 points per game. He has mentioned how it took awhile for his mentality to change, from being pass first team player to a 1st option scorer. I am not saying Scottie is as good as Jokic. But I strongly believe he can and will become a 24+ level scorer with the right development.

Jokic had all the skills to score like that though whereas Its a big question mark with scottie. Totally different circumstances.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Exactly, and although he didn’t look to score as much, when he did, he did it efficiently. Scottie’s efficiency has been bad for a player his size. If anything, he should be shooting less. lol.

[Wise80]

For the sake of the team, I'm rooting for him. I've never really been a believer for him being a primary ball handler. I just don't see it. But i hope I'm wrong.

But the excuses are approaching Bargnani level. Jesus.

I wonder when people turn on him? I have a feeling it'll be sudden if it does. Maybe in 2 years if he hasn't addressed his weaknesses? Next year if we land a top pick and he shows early promise?

[Scase]

Darko can say whatever excuses he wants for Scottie. It still doesn’t change the fact that Scottie is unable to bend defences, being a great passer isn’t good enough.

He needs to be able to play make and that only comes with being a downhill threat with the ball in his hands otherwise you’re essentially just a souped up version of Draymond Green on offence. Don’t get me wrong, any team would love to have that but it’s not lead ball handler material.

We are intentionally putting Scottie and RJ into those situations ... That's not one workout and he's Magic Johnson."

My guy, plz.

Such a yes man lol.

I'm a yes man because I'm willing to have patience on an experiment in a tanking year lol? If it doesn't work, it doesn't work, but freaking out about a handful of games might be a touch premature.

I don't think anyone reasonable expects him to be this mythical first option we need, but I don't see the harm is trying PG Scottie out. Personally, I don't think it's going to work, and I would much rather see him sticking in the high post conducting the offence from there, but I'm not about to call it a failure right off the bat.

[RoteSchroder]

Jokic became a 26+ scorer his age 25 season. Before that he spent 4 seasons hovering around 16-20 points per game. He has mentioned how it took awhile for his mentality to change, from being pass first team player to a 1st option scorer. I am not saying Scottie is as good as Jokic. But I strongly believe he can and will become a 24+ level scorer with the right development.

Unless Barnes is legitimately not bright, it shouldn't be super hard to put two and two together at this point. You're not willing to be the top dog on this team despite the fact that you know you are the most gifted one on the roster right now, and the result is your team being 7-25. Your lead scorer is RJ.

Put the pieces together - it ain't working out bud. Passing is cool, but it's time to evolve. And don't give me that "we're tanking/we're in a development season" horsechit, that's not something that should be on a player's mind. That's for the FO and coaching staff. His job is to win every time he steps on the court, and his thinking should reflect that entirely.

Jokic's worst year in efficiency is better than Scottie's best year.

Scottie isn't a natural 1v1 player. To me, the #1 thing he needs to improve on is his jumper to get to being a #2 with a connector archetype. I'd give him another 2 years to hone out his shot.

[HumbleRen]

My guy, plz.

Such a yes man lol.

I'm a yes man because I'm willing to have patience on an experiment in a tanking year lol? If it doesn't work, it doesn't work, but freaking out about a handful of games might be a touch premature.

I don't think anyone reasonable expects him to be this mythical first option we need, but I don't see the harm is trying PG Scottie out. Personally, I don't think it's going to work, and I would much rather see him sticking in the high post conducting the offence from there, but I'm not about to call it a failure right off the bat.

I’m talking about Darko’s comments.

Why does Scottie have to be a PG? Why is that term so important to him outside of just ego? Lebron is the greatest passing wing of all time, he didn’t play PG at his peak.

He doesn’t need PG reps, passing is already an innate ability to him. What unlocks Scottie’s full passing potential is having the scoring gravity to open up a dozen more passing avenues.

Making him a PG is literally holding him back from his ceiling.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Jokic became a 26+ scorer his age 25 season. Before that he spent 4 seasons hovering around 16-20 points per game. He has mentioned how it took awhile for his mentality to change, from being pass first team player to a 1st option scorer. I am not saying Scottie is as good as Jokic. But I strongly believe he can and will become a 24+ level scorer with the right development.

Unless Barnes is legitimately not bright, it shouldn't be super hard to put two and two together at this point. You're not willing to be the top dog on this team despite the fact that you know you are the most gifted one on the roster right now, and the result is your team being 7-25. Your lead scorer is RJ.

Put the pieces together - it ain't working out bud. Passing is cool, but it's time to evolve. And don't give me that "we're tanking/we're in a development season" horsechit, that's not something that should be on a player's mind. That's for the FO and coaching staff. His job is to win every time he steps on the court, and his thinking should reflect that entirely.

Jokic's worst year in efficiency is better than Scottie's best year.

Scottie isn't a natural 1v1 player. To me, the #1 thing he needs to improve on is his jumper to get to being a #2 with a connector archetype. I'd give him another 2 years to hone out his shot.

Because Jokic can easily get close to the basket and he's near automatic in the paint. I remember that's what first stuck out when I was watching his clips pre-draft. He was already Scola-like crafty as a teenager in a pro league. Scottie is shorter and has very few go to moves, and his touch is good but not great. I know people think Scottie's mentality is holding him back, but it's his size and skill. What he's really quite special at and what makes him unique is that he can be a jack of all trades, master of none. We don't need him to be on ball. He can get 20 mostly within the flow of an offense.

I feel like this year when he takes command of the ball it's mostly a rough watch, largely because he can't easily get in the paint and so rarely attracts help.

[720]

Jokic became a 26+ scorer his age 25 season. Before that he spent 4 seasons hovering around 16-20 points per game. He has mentioned how it took awhile for his mentality to change, from being pass first team player to a 1st option scorer. I am not saying Scottie is as good as Jokic. But I strongly believe he can and will become a 24+ level scorer with the right development.

Jokic had all the skills to score like that though whereas Its a big question mark with scottie. Totally different circumstances.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Exactly, and although he didn’t look to score as much, when he did, he did it efficiently. Scottie’s efficiency has been bad for a player his size. If anything, he should be shooting less. lol.

His efficiency is down the gutter because he’s playing with like 2-3 injuries right now. Darko mentioned his hip and some other leg injury bothering him. Then there is his orbital injury on top.

[ArthurVandelay]

Jokic had all the skills to score like that though whereas Its a big question mark with scottie. Totally different circumstances.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Exactly, and although he didn’t look to score as much, when he did, he did it efficiently. Scottie’s efficiency has been bad for a player his size. If anything, he should be shooting less. lol.

His efficiency is down the gutter because he’s playing with like 2-3 injuries right now. Darko mentioned his hip and some other leg injury bothering him. Then there is his orbital injury on top.

There is that. He’s also playing with anywhere from 2-4 rookies at a time along with Dick. A lot of the same arguments going on that happened after FVV left and then OG and Siakam traded. This just isn’t a great team and with all the injuries they are bad.

Some things that have been said about Scottie: he wants to play the right way, he feels he’s a PG, and he’s the ultimate glue/connector. I don’t mean to be making all these excuses for him but I do think they are legit points of emphasis. He’s not a #1 guy but he’s still a helluva player and he’ll only look better when he has better NBA talent around him.

[PushDaRock]

Exactly, and although he didn’t look to score as much, when he did, he did it efficiently. Scottie’s efficiency has been bad for a player his size. If anything, he should be shooting less. lol.

His efficiency is down the gutter because he’s playing with like 2-3 injuries right now. Darko mentioned his hip and some other leg injury bothering him. Then there is his orbital injury on top.

There is that. He’s also playing with anywhere from 2-4 rookies at a time along with Dick. A lot of the same arguments going on that happened after FVV left and then OG and Siakam traded. This just isn’t a great team and with all the injuries they are bad.

Some things that have been said about Scottie: he wants to play the right way, he feels he’s a PG, and he’s the ultimate glue/connector. I don’t mean to be making all these excuses for him but I do think they are legit points of emphasis. He’s not a #1 guy but he’s still a helluva player and he’ll only look better when he has better NBA talent around him.

The question is what does his scoring look like on a contending team? If he can't break 20 ppg on a really bad team, it makes it a lot more likely he's more of a #3/4 scorer because most really good #2 options can at least be bad #1 options.