Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 8

[bonjovi0308]

He looks regressed this year. Doesn't deserve to be all star.

Can those putting down Barnes please first receive an elbow by Jokic in the face, then twist your ankle in a way that you cannot feel your leg.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Jokic is the reason that Scottie isn't Jokic this year.

His numbers are around his career averages. There are some noticeable improvements in certain areas, but nothing great enough to vault him up a level.

[Los_29]

His efficiency is down the gutter because he’s playing with like 2-3 injuries right now. Darko mentioned his hip and some other leg injury bothering him. Then there is his orbital injury on top.

There is that. He’s also playing with anywhere from 2-4 rookies at a time along with Dick. A lot of the same arguments going on that happened after FVV left and then OG and Siakam traded. This just isn’t a great team and with all the injuries they are bad.

Some things that have been said about Scottie: he wants to play the right way, he feels he’s a PG, and he’s the ultimate glue/connector. I don’t mean to be making all these excuses for him but I do think they are legit points of emphasis. He’s not a #1 guy but he’s still a helluva player and he’ll only look better when he has better NBA talent around him.

The question is what does his scoring look like on a contending team? If he can't break 20 ppg on a really bad team, it makes it a lot more likely he's more of a #3/4 scorer because most really good #2 options can at least be bad #1 options.

I see him as a 3rd option. That might look like a 15-17ppg scorer but with better efficiency. Luckily, I do think we have our 2nd option already in IQ.

[ArthurVandelay]

His efficiency is down the gutter because he’s playing with like 2-3 injuries right now. Darko mentioned his hip and some other leg injury bothering him. Then there is his orbital injury on top.

There is that. He’s also playing with anywhere from 2-4 rookies at a time along with Dick. A lot of the same arguments going on that happened after FVV left and then OG and Siakam traded. This just isn’t a great team and with all the injuries they are bad.

Some things that have been said about Scottie: he wants to play the right way, he feels he’s a PG, and he’s the ultimate glue/connector. I don’t mean to be making all these excuses for him but I do think they are legit points of emphasis. He’s not a #1 guy but he’s still a helluva player and he’ll only look better when he has better NBA talent around him.

The question is what does his scoring look like on a contending team? If he can't break 20 ppg on a really bad team, it makes it a lot more likely he's more of a #3/4 scorer because most really good #2 options can at least be bad #1 options.

He was over 20 ppl this year before injuries. He was at 20 last year then dipped to 19.9 when he broke his hand after 16 minutes played and 10 points.

The whole number scoring option always bothers me. It’s so random and subjective. But what can most definitely be said is Scottie isn’t and shouldn’t be your top scoring option. If people believe he is or should be that type of player, that definitely explains the irrational views of his value as a basketball player.

[PushDaRock]

There is that. He’s also playing with anywhere from 2-4 rookies at a time along with Dick. A lot of the same arguments going on that happened after FVV left and then OG and Siakam traded. This just isn’t a great team and with all the injuries they are bad.

Some things that have been said about Scottie: he wants to play the right way, he feels he’s a PG, and he’s the ultimate glue/connector. I don’t mean to be making all these excuses for him but I do think they are legit points of emphasis. He’s not a #1 guy but he’s still a helluva player and he’ll only look better when he has better NBA talent around him.

The question is what does his scoring look like on a contending team? If he can't break 20 ppg on a really bad team, it makes it a lot more likely he's more of a #3/4 scorer because most really good #2 options can at least be bad #1 options.

He was over 20 ppl this year before injuries. He was at 20 last year then dipped to 19.9 when he broke his hand after 16 minutes played and 10 points.

The whole number scoring option always bothers me. It’s so random and subjective. But what can most definitely be said is Scottie isn’t and shouldn’t be your top scoring option. If people believe he is or should be that type of player, that definitely explains the irrational views of his value as a basketball player.

It's not really random at all. If he's a 20 ppg scorer on a bad team, what are the odds he is a 20 ppg scorer on a contending team?

[PushDaRock]

There is that. He’s also playing with anywhere from 2-4 rookies at a time along with Dick. A lot of the same arguments going on that happened after FVV left and then OG and Siakam traded. This just isn’t a great team and with all the injuries they are bad.

Some things that have been said about Scottie: he wants to play the right way, he feels he’s a PG, and he’s the ultimate glue/connector. I don’t mean to be making all these excuses for him but I do think they are legit points of emphasis. He’s not a #1 guy but he’s still a helluva player and he’ll only look better when he has better NBA talent around him.

The question is what does his scoring look like on a contending team? If he can't break 20 ppg on a really bad team, it makes it a lot more likely he's more of a #3/4 scorer because most really good #2 options can at least be bad #1 options.

I see him as a 3rd option. That might look like a 15-17ppg scorer but with better efficiency. Luckily, I do think we have our 2nd option already in IQ.

My hope was that he can be around a 20 ppg scorer on at least league average efficiency on a contending team. I don't think that's the projection right now but there are some encouraging signs like the mid range game which isn't pretty but it's been going in.

[Tripod]

Do people forget that our #2 scorer when we won a championship was a 19 point scorer?

And our 3rd leading scorer was a 15pt scorer.

AND everyone else was sub 10 pt scorers?

Maybe we don't ever get a 30 pt guy like a Kawhi at the top, but we do have 3 guys capable of averaging 20 a piece...then Yak and Gradey at 15+....JKW who knows....and of course the wild card being our 1st this year who may be the top guy in the future to lean on.

The roster is going to change lots in the next 5 years. Just keep adding talent...making guys better...and sort things out as you go. This year sell off the few vets for extra 2nds in 2027-30 to keep the extra picks coming in the future.

[Drakeem]

Read on Twitter

Lol the coach just came out and said we're playing bad basketball on purpose.

All you can do is trust the process and hope it pay dividends in the future. Right now, it's a brutal watch.

Yeah. It's seems like the priority is individual.development rather than team development, which leads to.losses.

That's all fine......especially for rookies and sophmores, but some.of these guys that have already been in the league 3+ years are eventually going to get frustrated with it & start to lose faith in the coach. Darko is going to start to look incompetent in the players eyes & that is starting to show now. Darko running out on the court like a maniac doesn't help his situation.

For Scottie, the team was decent when he arrived & has gotten worse every season since.. IQ & RJ have already been through these years of growing pains & want to move on & start winning in the playoffs. Thats where these guys are at in their careers..

I am sure the rest of the vets just don't take.any of this seriously (Kelly) & others are just annoyed with it (Poeltl).

You have IQ & RJ coming from Thibs program & Poeltl coming here after being coached by Pops and Duncan.

I am sure the organization hasn't looked overly impressive to some of these guys.

The moment these guys can actually stay on the court is when they've earned the right to complain. IQ can't do anything but zip it when he's done nothing.

[Scase]

Such a yes man lol.

I'm a yes man because I'm willing to have patience on an experiment in a tanking year lol? If it doesn't work, it doesn't work, but freaking out about a handful of games might be a touch premature.

I don't think anyone reasonable expects him to be this mythical first option we need, but I don't see the harm is trying PG Scottie out. Personally, I don't think it's going to work, and I would much rather see him sticking in the high post conducting the offence from there, but I'm not about to call it a failure right off the bat.

I’m talking about Darko’s comments.

Why does Scottie have to be a PG? Why is that term so important to him outside of just ego? Lebron is the greatest passing wing of all time, he didn’t play PG at his peak.

He doesn’t need PG reps, passing is already an innate ability to him. What unlocks Scottie’s full passing potential is having the scoring gravity to open up a dozen more passing avenues.

Making him a PG is literally holding him back from his ceiling.

Ah my bad man, I misunderstood!

I'm with you for the most part, I don't think the PG experiment is going to result in much, but I say we let it happen and see where it goes. I wonder if they are just trying to see if it will work or unearth something they didn't know was there, overall I think the direction I've been seeing his development going, has been the opposite of what he should be doing.

More inside play, less outside shooting, more facilitating out of the post, taking more mid range shots. I'm not sure why they are giving him the shot selection they are, but I'm willing to have a little bit of faith after seeing Ochai's recent improvements.

Part of me wonders if they are doing this cause they view IQ as more of an off ball threat instead of a true PG, or maybe it's just cause he's injured and we don't have anyone else worth running the point for now. Or it's all some BS to keep Scottie engaged while also benefitting the tank.

[TheGeneral99]

The question is what does his scoring look like on a contending team? If he can't break 20 ppg on a really bad team, it makes it a lot more likely he's more of a #3/4 scorer because most really good #2 options can at least be bad #1 options.

He was over 20 ppl this year before injuries. He was at 20 last year then dipped to 19.9 when he broke his hand after 16 minutes played and 10 points.

The whole number scoring option always bothers me. It’s so random and subjective. But what can most definitely be said is Scottie isn’t and shouldn’t be your top scoring option. If people believe he is or should be that type of player, that definitely explains the irrational views of his value as a basketball player.

It's not really random at all. If he's a 20 ppg scorer on a bad team, what are the odds he is a 20 ppg scorer on a contending team?

He was a 15ppg scorer on a good team with Pascal, Fred and OG ahead of him on the shot attempts.

Anyways, I think Scottie has had a ton of bad luck this year:

1) He missed training camp and pre-season due to an injury which affected his start to the season
2) Just a few games into the season he breaks his orbital bone and misses a dozen games
3) After returning he starts playing fantastic with Jokic level numbers before suffering a sprained ankle, missing a few more games.

He really hasn't been able to get into a groove with so many injuries/road blocks.

[ATLTimekeeper]

If you gave Scottie one more post-up he would be in the top 15 of quantity per game. He's currently in the 22nd percentile of ppp on that play. And he passes 26% of the time. One, it's just not a favourable play call in this day and age. Two, he's not dangerous enough from that position to change the outcome of a game. Three, most of the players in the top 15 are > 7 feet tall.

[PushDaRock]

He was over 20 ppl this year before injuries. He was at 20 last year then dipped to 19.9 when he broke his hand after 16 minutes played and 10 points.

The whole number scoring option always bothers me. It’s so random and subjective. But what can most definitely be said is Scottie isn’t and shouldn’t be your top scoring option. If people believe he is or should be that type of player, that definitely explains the irrational views of his value as a basketball player.

It's not really random at all. If he's a 20 ppg scorer on a bad team, what are the odds he is a 20 ppg scorer on a contending team?

He was a 15ppg scorer on a good team with Pascal, Fred and OG ahead of him on the shot attempts.

Anyways, I think Scottie has had a ton of bad luck this year:

1) He missed training camp and pre-season due to an injury which affected his start to the season
2) Just a few games into the season he breaks his orbital bone and misses a dozen games
3) After returning he starts playing fantastic with Jokic level numbers before suffering a sprained ankle, missing a few more games.

He really hasn't been able to get into a groove with so many injuries/road blocks.

Yeah, so we can be reasonably confident he can likely be your 3rd or 4th best scorer on a contending team.

[TheGeneral99]

It's not really random at all. If he's a 20 ppg scorer on a bad team, what are the odds he is a 20 ppg scorer on a contending team?

He was a 15ppg scorer on a good team with Pascal, Fred and OG ahead of him on the shot attempts.

Anyways, I think Scottie has had a ton of bad luck this year:

1) He missed training camp and pre-season due to an injury which affected his start to the season
2) Just a few games into the season he breaks his orbital bone and misses a dozen games
3) After returning he starts playing fantastic with Jokic level numbers before suffering a sprained ankle, missing a few more games.

He really hasn't been able to get into a groove with so many injuries/road blocks.

Yeah, so we can be reasonably confident he can likely be your 3rd or 4th best scorer on a contending team.

No, because he literally was a 15ppg scorer as a raw rookie on as the 3rd/4th option. Last year he jumped to 20ppg on reasonable efficiency. This year has been a strange one considering he's had a ton of injuries and missed half the season.

He won't be a 30ppg scorer, but I think Scottie can definitely be a 23-24ppg player which would make him the ideal 2nd option on a contender.

[sbsat]

No jumpshot 4 years in. Its not happening folks and this will severely limit him

[PushDaRock]

He was a 15ppg scorer on a good team with Pascal, Fred and OG ahead of him on the shot attempts.

Anyways, I think Scottie has had a ton of bad luck this year:

1) He missed training camp and pre-season due to an injury which affected his start to the season
2) Just a few games into the season he breaks his orbital bone and misses a dozen games
3) After returning he starts playing fantastic with Jokic level numbers before suffering a sprained ankle, missing a few more games.

He really hasn't been able to get into a groove with so many injuries/road blocks.

Yeah, so we can be reasonably confident he can likely be your 3rd or 4th best scorer on a contending team.

No, because he literally was a 15ppg scorer as a raw rookie on as the 3rd/4th option. Last year he jumped to 20ppg on reasonable efficiency. This year has been a strange one considering he's had a ton of injuries and missed half the season.

He won't be a 30ppg scorer, but I think Scottie can definitely be a 23-24ppg player which would make him the ideal 2nd option on a contender.

He's been a below average efficiency scorer every year in the league. Thinking he can increase volume while also becoming more efficient is very optimistic, that's not normally what happens at all. How is he scoring 23-24 ppg on a contender when he can't do it on a bad one?

[ForeverTFC]

Such a yes man lol.

I'm a yes man because I'm willing to have patience on an experiment in a tanking year lol? If it doesn't work, it doesn't work, but freaking out about a handful of games might be a touch premature.

I don't think anyone reasonable expects him to be this mythical first option we need, but I don't see the harm is trying PG Scottie out. Personally, I don't think it's going to work, and I would much rather see him sticking in the high post conducting the offence from there, but I'm not about to call it a failure right off the bat.

I’m talking about Darko’s comments.

Why does Scottie have to be a PG? Why is that term so important to him outside of just ego? Lebron is the greatest passing wing of all time, he didn’t play PG at his peak.

He doesn’t need PG reps, passing is already an innate ability to him. What unlocks Scottie’s full passing potential is having the scoring gravity to open up a dozen more passing avenues.

Making him a PG is literally holding him back from his ceiling.

Couldn't agree with you more. I understand that this is an experiment. I don't understand why this experiment is needed. It's not like Scottie is a finished product every where else on the floor and this is all there is left to teach him. And if they're hoping it makes him more aggressive in looking for his own shot because he has the ball in his hands all the time, he's certainly not following through with it. So what exactly is Scottie and the franchise getting out of this? A slightly tighter handle if all goes well? They guy isn't going to magically take defenders off the dribble going downhill, no matter how many times he dribbles the ball into the ground.

If someone can explain the purpose of the experiment to me, I'd be forever grateful.

[HumbleRen]

I'm a yes man because I'm willing to have patience on an experiment in a tanking year lol? If it doesn't work, it doesn't work, but freaking out about a handful of games might be a touch premature.

I don't think anyone reasonable expects him to be this mythical first option we need, but I don't see the harm is trying PG Scottie out. Personally, I don't think it's going to work, and I would much rather see him sticking in the high post conducting the offence from there, but I'm not about to call it a failure right off the bat.

I’m talking about Darko’s comments.

Why does Scottie have to be a PG? Why is that term so important to him outside of just ego? Lebron is the greatest passing wing of all time, he didn’t play PG at his peak.

He doesn’t need PG reps, passing is already an innate ability to him. What unlocks Scottie’s full passing potential is having the scoring gravity to open up a dozen more passing avenues.

Making him a PG is literally holding him back from his ceiling.

Ah my bad man, I misunderstood!

I'm with you for the most part, I don't think the PG experiment is going to result in much, but I say we let it happen and see where it goes. I wonder if they are just trying to see if it will work or unearth something they didn't know was there, overall I think the direction I've been seeing his development going, has been the opposite of what he should be doing.

More inside play, less outside shooting, more facilitating out of the post, taking more mid range shots. I'm not sure why they are giving him the shot selection they are, but I'm willing to have a little bit of faith after seeing Ochai's recent improvements.

Part of me wonders if they are doing this cause they view IQ as more of an off ball threat instead of a true PG, or maybe it's just cause he's injured and we don't have anyone else worth running the point for now. Or it's all some BS to keep Scottie engaged while also benefitting the tank.

I think the PG experiment is actually a negative. He’s developing bad habits, he barely plays off the ball now, almost 0 movement. If he doesn’t have the ball in his hand, he just stands at the top of the key near the logo waiting for the ball to come to his hands.

He’s behaving like old man Lebron, Harden or Luka except he has almost 0 of the scoring gravity that those guys have.

We really need IQ back asap.

[DelAbbot]

I think it's Scottie who wants to be a Magic type PG - our FO is giving him the chance and proving he's not suited for it. At the same time he's getting better handle (however slightly), and we lose more games because of this experiment

[Tacoma]

I'm a yes man because I'm willing to have patience on an experiment in a tanking year lol? If it doesn't work, it doesn't work, but freaking out about a handful of games might be a touch premature.

I don't think anyone reasonable expects him to be this mythical first option we need, but I don't see the harm is trying PG Scottie out. Personally, I don't think it's going to work, and I would much rather see him sticking in the high post conducting the offence from there, but I'm not about to call it a failure right off the bat.

I’m talking about Darko’s comments.

Why does Scottie have to be a PG? Why is that term so important to him outside of just ego? Lebron is the greatest passing wing of all time, he didn’t play PG at his peak.

He doesn’t need PG reps, passing is already an innate ability to him. What unlocks Scottie’s full passing potential is having the scoring gravity to open up a dozen more passing avenues.

Making him a PG is literally holding him back from his ceiling.

Couldn't agree with you more. I understand that this is an experiment. I don't understand why this experiment is needed. It's not like Scottie is a finished product every where else on the floor and this is all there is left to teach him. And if they're hoping it makes him more aggressive in looking for his own shot because he has the ball in his hands all the time, he's certainly not following through with it. So what exactly is Scottie and the franchise getting out of this? A slightly tighter handle if all goes well? They guy isn't going to magically take defenders off the dribble going downhill, no matter how many times he dribbles the ball into the ground.

If someone can explain the purpose of the experiment to me, I'd be forever grateful.

If there's an experiment, it's not to promote his PG skills but rather it is described in the underlined part of your post above and your conclusion that he isn't following through with it hits the nail on the head on the problem.

Darko has said he wants Barnes to be more aggressive in looking for his shot either as a jumpshot or driving to the basket. I think the problem is his jumpshot has regressed from last season and he doesn't have the quickness to get by defenders, so his only remaining recourse is to bully his way in, so he'd rather just pass the ball. He has lost confidence.

[MEDIC]

I think it's Scottie who wants to be a Magic type PG - our FO is giving him the chance and proving he's not suited for it.

I just don't see it. He is consistently too sloppy. True playmakers.......you see it in them when they get drafted. It's innate. Does he have playmaking skills? 100%.......which is impressive for a guy his size. Do I want him being primary playmaker & primary ball handler? Not at this stage in his career. He has a long,.long ways to go if that's what he wants, he should work towards it.....not be given the keys. This season is a write off, so you may as well let him keep doing it (until IQ gets back). He really hasn't looked much better than RJ this season.though.

I still like him as a Charles Barkley type. Freight train......leading a fast break after a rebound. Post game. Some.mid range. The odd 3.