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Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7

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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7 

Post#1441 » by CunningLinguist » Sun Apr 24, 2011 2:44 pm

bboyskinnylegs wrote:
CanadaB-Ball wrote:
bboyskinnylegs wrote:Lucas has a 7'5.5" wingspan, 9'3" standing reach. I don't think he's a better prospect than Biyombo at all. At the same age, Biyombo weighs 25lbs more than Lucas at 243lbs vs 218lbs (and has a 4.5% body fat vs. Lucas' 7.8%), and despite being a project himself is more polished than Lucas on both ends, and is every bit as quick and athletic.


This is, of course, assuming that Biyombo is eighteen.

I really hope there's conclusive evidence that he is, because I would not feel comfortable having a prospect on my favourite team with a relatively unknown birthday.

well, according to DX the x-rays with Biyombo's growth plates (from when he was 16) are already being evaluated by an NBA team. If those turn out to be valid, then he was no older than 16-17 in the summer of 2009, meaning that he is 18-19 now.

Obviously I would hope that the team does their homework to make sure, but I don't think it's fair to use this age argument when there doesn't appear to be a basis for these rumours in the first place. It's almost like this is something they put out there anytime there's an overseas prospect that looks mature or physically developed for their age (the same issues were brought up for Kanter, who was also physically mature for his age, but it turns out he was born in Zurich). I understand the need to verify their age, but it is kind of sad that they only come under this kind of suspicion simply because of where they are from. I wonder if scouts scrutinized Oden's age the same way.


Just because growth plates haven't fused doesn't mean he was only 16 or 17 at the time of the x-rays (assuming they are Biyombo's x-rays). I continued growing until the age of 22 myself.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7 

Post#1442 » by CunningLinguist » Sun Apr 24, 2011 2:47 pm

darth_federer wrote:Biymobo as a top 3 pick makes me nervous. But, David Thorpe said this about Biyombo and said that the T Wolves might end up drafting him first over all too

Image


Let me guess, Biyombo will be training with David Thorpe? He does this every year, pimping his training clients. Remember Earl Clark?
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7 

Post#1443 » by RapsRebuilder » Sun Apr 24, 2011 2:51 pm

If Serge Ibaka was in this year's draft, would you take him 3rd (behind Irving and Williams)? Most likely.

Seeing how Bismack is predicted to be similar to Ibaka (better in some respects, worse in others), then why is selecting him 3rd overall so crazy?

As long as Bismack impresses in workouts, I'm all for drafting him #3.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7 

Post#1444 » by dagger » Sun Apr 24, 2011 3:18 pm

RapsRebuilder wrote:If Serge Ibaka was in this year's draft, would you take him 3rd (behind Irving and Williams)? Most likely.

Seeing how Bismack is predicted to be similar to Ibaka (better in some respects, worse in others), then why is selecting him 3rd overall so crazy?

As long as Bismack impresses in workouts, I'm all for drafting him #3.


Several players will impress, but in the end it's not only about talent - assuming others are close - but about fit as well. Fit beside Davis in particular. Both have similar talents. But the question arises, would we be better off with a conventional big who can both score and defend in the low block, who can carve out space against less robust bigs, and yet still run the floor?

As for Ibaka, each draft there are uber athletic bigs who attract attention, but few who make Ibaka's impact. Because Ibaka has been a good pickup for OKC doesn't mean he's worth the third overall pick here.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7 

Post#1445 » by Kid Canada » Sun Apr 24, 2011 3:40 pm

my list would be

irving
williams
kanter
bismack
walker
terrence jones

the best case if we dont get a top 2 pick would be to trade down. someone like golden st could fall in love with kanter. the back half of the first round is solid. nogueira, singleton and reggie jackson are nice players in the late first round. nolan smith is a good player.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7 

Post#1446 » by xprt » Sun Apr 24, 2011 5:29 pm

I don't have a link but Valanciunas confirmed to participate in draft.
Dr Mufasa wrote:I believe Jonas will be one of the biggest draft busts of all time.To me he's an unathletic Javale McGee.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7 

Post#1447 » by Yeezus_ » Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:27 pm

I think we should trade the pick if we don't get the first overall in my opinion. Has any team ever swapped their current pick for one in the next year?

Example: We trade our pick to Cleveland, they gave us their next years pick?
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7 

Post#1448 » by ATLTimekeeper » Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:28 pm

dagger wrote:
Several players will impress, but in the end it's not only about talent - assuming others are close - but about fit as well. Fit beside Davis in particular. Both have similar talents. But the question arises, would we be better off with a conventional big who can both score and defend in the low block, who can carve out space against less robust bigs, and yet still run the floor?

As for Ibaka, each draft there are uber athletic bigs who attract attention, but few who make Ibaka's impact. Because Ibaka has been a good pickup for OKC doesn't mean he's worth the third overall pick here.


The last thing we should consider is fit beside Ed Davis, or any player for that matter. We're likely looking at our selecting our best player.

In 2006 we passed on Aldridge and the party line was that it wasn't a great fit next to Bosh. That decision doesn't look so good in hindsight. Take the BPA, even if he's a carbon copy of Ed Davis and worry about the floor balance later. Looking at the three centers, they'll all be 19 next year. It's way too early to pigeon hole them. Just look at how quickly Ed Davis developed his jump shot this year, and he's three years older than all of these prospects.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7 

Post#1449 » by 5DOM » Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:44 pm

raptorsnation_5 wrote:I think we should trade the pick if we don't get the first overall in my opinion. Has any team ever swapped their current pick for one in the next year?

Example: We trade our pick to Cleveland, they gave us their next years pick?


Make Bill Belichick be in charge of our draft :nod:
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7 

Post#1450 » by Dr Positivity » Sun Apr 24, 2011 8:45 pm

I feel like there's a chance Thompson ends up in the mix for 4-6, whether it's for us or someone else. It seems like for all the question marks around Val, Kanter and Biyombo, there's TT as an alternative. Has the NBA body at 6'8 but with a 7'2 wingspan, with NBA strength and athleticism. Is a freshman, which is usually enough to make teams not care about raw offense (though they should). Projects as a d and rebounding guy which teams want in bigs. And most importantly they've seen him all year against NCAA competition and he played on a good team. He's the type of prospect Jay Bilas jerks off to. And that usually leads to a high ranking.

I wonder if Embry and co. would be inclined to take Tristan for his Canadian connection, if he's a consensus top 7 guy by the time of the draft. Or is he too poor a fit with Ed Davis.

Nevertheless I could easily see him going to Sacramento (outstanding fit with Cousins), Washington (need a defensive big), or Detroit (good fit with Monroe).

Right now I'm thinking Biyombo, Knight and Thompson all go over Kanter. The more I think of the history of the draft, the more likely it seems Kanter falls and gets picked up at 7 or 9. Teams freak out about ok big athletes translating against NBA opponents even after a great college season. When they haven't seen him play? The specimen types Knight, Biyombo and Thompson are more likely to outdo him and Val IMO...
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7 

Post#1451 » by JamesNaismith » Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:02 pm

Dr Mufasa wrote:Right now I'm thinking Biyombo, Knight and Thompson all go over Kanter. The more I think of the history of the draft, the more likely it seems Kanter falls and gets picked up at 7 or 9. Teams freak out about ok big athletes translating against NBA opponents even after a great college season. When they haven't seen him play? The specimen types Knight, Biyombo and Thompson are more likely to outdo him and Val IMO...


I agree that does tend to happen but (again ceiling) guys like Horford and Love did remain around the top 5 as is Kanter this year because you can see some basic fundamentals that can't be taken away just by playing against more athletic players...that's the whole reason their numbers are impressing to begin with.


Being great at the fundamentals is something you can never take away from these guys....are there "potentials" as high? Obviously not but the fact they have a great feel for the game never leaves them and if you look at players that play this way (Duncan, Andre Miller) they're actually great for longevity (minus Roy who is STILL effective because of this though). I'm not sure why a GM would pass on that for what is now becoming a long line up of physically gifted players who never get it....
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7 

Post#1452 » by Dr Positivity » Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:11 pm

I know, if Kanter played this season I think he'd have had a great year and locked himself into a 3-5 pick. But the fact that he didn't I think is going to throw gasoline on the 'he won't translate against big and athletic opponents!' fire
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7 

Post#1453 » by Raps in 4 » Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:22 pm

Our future C just officially declared:

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/21 ... aft_Waters

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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7 

Post#1454 » by ATLTimekeeper » Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:26 pm

Dr Mufasa wrote:I know, if Kanter played this season I think he'd have had a great year and locked himself into a 3-5 pick. But the fact that he didn't I think is going to throw gasoline on the 'he won't translate against big and athletic opponents!' fire


I really can't think of many recent examples that fit your description. Brook Lopez was the only one. Cole Aldrich slid as well, but he was never considered a skill guy. At the same token, Kevin Love shot up the draft boards. He went from mid-first round to 4th overall.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7 

Post#1455 » by ATLTimekeeper » Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:31 pm

Another thing people tend to get caught up on is the shroud of mystery surrounding some of these players. It doesn't always make for shaky ground.

The three best players to come out of the 2002 lottery were Yao, Nene and Amare, and all of them had high bust potential.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7 

Post#1456 » by Raps in 4 » Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:32 pm

ATLTimekeeper wrote:Another thing people tend to get caught up on is the shroud of mystery surrounding some of these players. It doesn't always make for shaky ground.

The three best players to come out of the 2002 lottery were Yao, Nene and Amare, and all of them had high bust potential.


Nene and Amare were picked 7th and 9th, not 3rd.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7 

Post#1457 » by CunningLinguist » Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:44 pm

Dr Mufasa wrote:I know, if Kanter played this season I think he'd have had a great year and locked himself into a 3-5 pick. But the fact that he didn't I think is going to throw gasoline on the 'he won't translate against big and athletic opponents!' fire


Or it will help his stock by not allowing his weaknesses to be exposed.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7 

Post#1458 » by Dr Positivity » Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:45 pm

ATLTimekeeper wrote:
Dr Mufasa wrote:I know, if Kanter played this season I think he'd have had a great year and locked himself into a 3-5 pick. But the fact that he didn't I think is going to throw gasoline on the 'he won't translate against big and athletic opponents!' fire


I really can't think of many recent examples that fit your description. Brook Lopez was the only one. Cole Aldrich slid as well, but he was never considered a skill guy. At the same token, Kevin Love shot up the draft boards. He went from mid-first round to 4th overall.


Lopez, Monroe, Hibbert, Hansbrough to name 4. Also Al Jefferson and Andray Blatche were top 5 HS ranked players who came out immediately who dropped, that might not be because they were just skill guys, but still (and wow, Jefferson dropped a 43, 18 and 7 in high school. Obviously brutal league, but lol)

It's not a huge list but the list of skill/ok athlete bigs who went top 5 is smaller. Just Love recently. Guess you could count Kaman going 6 in the best draft ever
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7 

Post#1459 » by ATLTimekeeper » Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:33 pm

UssjTrunks wrote:
ATLTimekeeper wrote:Another thing people tend to get caught up on is the shroud of mystery surrounding some of these players. It doesn't always make for shaky ground.

The three best players to come out of the 2002 lottery were Yao, Nene and Amare, and all of them had high bust potential.


Nene and Amare were picked 7th and 9th, not 3rd.


So... we shouldn't pick the 3rd best pick in the draft with the 3rd pick? What kind of point are you trying to make?
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7 

Post#1460 » by ATLTimekeeper » Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:43 pm

Dr Mufasa wrote:
ATLTimekeeper wrote:
Dr Mufasa wrote:I know, if Kanter played this season I think he'd have had a great year and locked himself into a 3-5 pick. But the fact that he didn't I think is going to throw gasoline on the 'he won't translate against big and athletic opponents!' fire


I really can't think of many recent examples that fit your description. Brook Lopez was the only one. Cole Aldrich slid as well, but he was never considered a skill guy. At the same token, Kevin Love shot up the draft boards. He went from mid-first round to 4th overall.


Lopez, Monroe, Hibbert, Hansbrough to name 4. Also Al Jefferson and Andray Blatche were top 5 HS ranked players who came out immediately who dropped, that might not be because they were just skill guys, but still (and wow, Jefferson dropped a 43, 18 and 7 in high school. Obviously brutal league, but lol)

It's not a huge list but the list of skill/ok athlete bigs who went top 5 is smaller. Just Love recently. Guess you could count Kaman going 6 in the best draft ever


Monroe slid mostly because he was considered soft. Although, he still went 7th. Hibbert was all over the map as a prospect in his college years. In his draft year I don't think he was ever considered in the top 3 picks, but I could be off. He's also been all over the map as a pro. Hansbrough was never considered a top prospect. He went higher than a lot of people thought, iirc. He's been a better pro than a lot of people thought, too. As for the high schoolers, Blatche had an RCSI ranking of 65 and he's actually pretty athletic. At least, athleticism has never been the knock with him. I'm not sure what the knock on Jefferson was, maybe weight.

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