2023 Draft Discussion Part III

[BoyzNTheHood]

If Wallace or Hendricks don't fall to us I'm leaning toward Coulibaly or George. I haven't been high on George as a top 10 pick this year due to his lack of efficiency, but in the teens he could be a steal like a Maxey or Mitchell. I still have Coulibaly ahead of him for upside, but I think in the least George's floor would be a Cam Thomas.

I could see George thriving with NBA spacing. The problem is, we don’t have NBA spacing

I mean presumably he would be one of the spacers along with OG. But, we have to trade one of Barnes or Pascal. They're both natural PF who are not great shooters. If you had George, OG, and a shooter at the point that should be enough shooting in starters minutes.

That’s true, but like you said we need another spacer and ideally we have to trade Pascal for assets. In my opinion, Golden State makes a lot of sense, just like Portland if they choose to try and win now with Dame. The blazers have been discussed a lot, but GSW not as much. If we sent them Pascal for some package surrounding Poole and Kumbucket I think it could help them secure another 1-2 chips, as well as accelerate our rebuild.

[TdotBasketball]

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[Tofubeque]

Has someone found a comparison of guys with George's numbers who turned out good? He has a lot of confidence but played terribly. If he had like Dennis Smith Jr hops or something I'd swing for him but he's just average athletically. We have to really beleive the shot is elite or we're just getting a streaky chucker like Clarkson

Take it for what it's worth but this guy was able to cherry-pick some stats that Keyonte shared with only Trae Young and Paul George. "Since 2008, the only freshman or sophomores to have a usage above 25%, an assist% above 20%, a steal% above 2%, a free throw rate above 30%, while attempting greater than 10 3point attempts per 100 possessions, and finishing over 65% at the rim, are Keyonte and Paul George," that kind of thing.

Watch on YouTube

This guy's in the tank for him as a top-5 prospect and I'm not sold on him being THAT good. But I like the assist rate, free throw rate and 65% rim finishing for a player whose reputation is he just chucks shots.

[metafisical]

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[HumbleRen]

The more I watch Cissoko’s film, the more I think we’re going to end up drafting him if Sam Presti doesn’t go for him.

I know it’s not the prototype that we want but his size, on ball defence, ball handling and playmaking ability might be too tantalizing for Masai to pass up on.

[Yallbecrazy]

Has someone found a comparison of guys with George's numbers who turned out good? He has a lot of confidence but played terribly. If he had like Dennis Smith Jr hops or something I'd swing for him but he's just average athletically. We have to really beleive the shot is elite or we're just getting a streaky chucker like Clarkson

A really poor man's Kyrie Irving?

[WuTang_CMB]

Cissoko will definitely be in the mix at 13 and it's his playmaking that separates him vs these other guards/wings

https://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/sleeper-deep-dives-sidy-cissoko

good break down on his whole game

i personally love the upside and think he can do a multitude of things on the nba level developing in our system

[Rapsfan07]

Has someone found a comparison of guys with George's numbers who turned out good? He has a lot of confidence but played terribly. If he had like Dennis Smith Jr hops or something I'd swing for him but he's just average athletically. We have to really beleive the shot is elite or we're just getting a streaky chucker like Clarkson

A really poor man's Kyrie Irving?

A player like Clarkson is still excellent value at 13 tbh.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Has someone found a comparison of guys with George's numbers who turned out good? He has a lot of confidence but played terribly. If he had like Dennis Smith Jr hops or something I'd swing for him but he's just average athletically. We have to really beleive the shot is elite or we're just getting a streaky chucker like Clarkson

Take it for what it's worth but this guy was able to cherry-pick some stats that Keyonte shared with only Trae Young and Paul George. "Since 2008, the only freshman or sophomores to have a usage above 25%, an assist% above 20%, a steal% above 2%, a free throw rate above 30%, while attempting greater than 10 3point attempts per 100 possessions, and finishing over 65% at the rim, are Keyonte and Paul George," that kind of thing.

Watch on YouTube

This guy's in the tank for him as a top-5 prospect and I'm not sold on him being THAT good. But I like the assist rate, free throw rate and 65% rim finishing for a player whose reputation is he just chucks shots.

Not sure what the source is for those, but Bartovik has George shooting .585 on close 2s at only 65 attempts. Both low reps and low % isn't that encouraging to me. But to keep this comparison Trae Young also had a really low % on close shots (52%), but took 200 attempts. To me there's no comparison as Trae was one of the most dominant college freshman guards in decades. George wasn't a good college player and will have to prove he can get into the paint more consistently or he's going to be a stepback volume shooter only.

[srhcan]

how come Bulls have better chance at draft lottery than us? they beat us in play-in so should not we be ahead of them for draft lottery?

[Psubs]

Cissoko will definitely be in the mix at 13 and it's his playmaking that separates him vs these other guards/wings

https://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/sleeper-deep-dives-sidy-cissoko

good break down on his whole game

i personally love the upside and think he can do a multitude of things on the nba level in our system

Cissoko has been very efficient inside the arc while showing clear shooting growth from three-point range. He’s also been rock-solid defensively, averaging 1.2 steals and nearly a block per game while switching across multiple positions on the perimeter and providing stout defense and shot-blocking in the paint.

his passing is what elevates his game to another level. His versatile game gives him a pretty solid floor, but his incredible passing is what makes him special. Cissoko is one of the best live-dribble passers in this class, and at 6’8” he can hit basically every passing window that you could imagine. He can improvise on the fly, often literally improvising in the air on his plentiful jump passes, with the best of them.

He's like a Deng/Diaw mix. If he plays for the 905 next year, I can see him vying for the GLeague MVP.

Why would someone want to draft GG Jackson over Cissoko? GG seems like an entitled chucker, and his team plays better when he's sitting. If teams like Hardy drop to the 2nd round, Jackson should be a 2nd rounder for sure. A team like Charlotte could gamble with Jackson at #34. Really they should get Trayce Jackson-Davis at #34 and gamble at 39 or 41 with Jackson. I would take Clowney before Jackson.

Really I thought the Raptors had a chance at being a top 4 seed in the East in the fall, so I thought the Raptors would be drafting the early 20's and Cissoko was one of the players that I was looking at just based on his international play for France. I guess he didn't start out great this season for had a fine 2nd half and should be looked at in the late teens and early 20's. If Cason and Hendricks are gone by 13, I don't mind reaching for Cissoko there like a riser like Jalen Williams. Outiside of the top 3, I don't see any other player with that much more potential than Cissoko. Sidy feels like a Franz Wagner sort of prospect.

[Psubs]

how come Bulls have better chance at draft lottery than us? they beat us in play-in so should not we be ahead of them for draft lottery?

Neither team made the playoffs so refer to regular season records.

[srhcan]

how come Bulls have better chance at draft lottery than us? they beat us in play-in so should not we be ahead of them for draft lottery?

Neither team made the playoffs so refer to regular season records.

Got it but does not feel right. The play-in should be part of the equation. If Bulls had beaten Miami in play-in then Raptors would have better chance at draft lottery.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Has someone found a comparison of guys with George's numbers who turned out good? He has a lot of confidence but played terribly. If he had like Dennis Smith Jr hops or something I'd swing for him but he's just average athletically. We have to really beleive the shot is elite or we're just getting a streaky chucker like Clarkson

A really poor man's Kyrie Irving?

A player like Clarkson is still excellent value at 13 tbh.

Very true but keep in mind you are probably not getting Utah Jazz "I know what I am in the league" Jordan Clarkson, but crappy LA Lakers "empty points on a bad team" Clarkson. Teams in the lotto should reasonably expect a starter.

[Psubs]

how come Bulls have better chance at draft lottery than us? they beat us in play-in so should not we be ahead of them for draft lottery?

Neither team made the playoffs so refer to regular season records.

Got it but does not feel right. The play-in should be part of the equation. If Bulls had beaten Miami in play-in then Raptors would have better chance at draft lottery.

You want organizations not tank and rest players for the play-in games.

[ItsDanger]

You either target shot creation in half court or build a very team oriented offense. This is a league built around offense now and don't overrate defense.

[Thaddy]

You either target shot creation in half court or build a very team oriented offense. This is a league built around offense now and don't overrate defense.

That is so hard to find in our range. George is the best creator but shoots very badly against college competition.

In our range the closest we will find to that is a pick and roll ball handler that can attack and pass to the roller/popper. Cissoko again fits that notion. He is able to beat his man off the dribble EVEN IF the defender goes under the screen. That raw athleticism makes up for the lack of experience.

In terms of being into play and grow into a role. Cissoko is an easy choice. He might struggle early in his career, which I doubt, but I can see him putting together month by month improvements with consistent minutes.

[aminiaturebuddha]

A really poor man's Kyrie Irving?

A player like Clarkson is still excellent value at 13 tbh.

Very true but keep in mind you are probably not getting Utah Jazz "I know what I am in the league" Jordan Clarkson, but crappy LA Lakers "empty points on a bad team" Clarkson. Teams in the lotto should reasonably expect a starter.

I wonder if it's actually "reasonable" to expect a starter for teams in the lottery. I haven't run the numbers, but I'd be surprised if even 50% of lottery picks over the last 10 years are legitimate starters in the league. I'm guessing it's much lower than that.

That said, I agree with you about being wary of an empty stats Clarkson-on-the-Lakers type player. I'm definitely not very high on George.

Edit: I just took a very quick look at the last 10 drafts, and it seems like it's about an average of 5-6 of the 14 lottery picks every year that are reasonable starters in the league (with some outlier years with anywhere from 2 to 8).

[Psubs]

You either target shot creation in half court or build a very team oriented offense. This is a league built around offense now and don't overrate defense.

Sacramento loaded up on shooters with Murray and Huerter. I would go after shooting via free agency. Grant Williams and Max Strus, will likely command more than the MLE, between $15-20 million. Donte DiVincenzo, Bruce Brown, Eric Gordon, Seth Curry, Shake Milton, Lonny Walker and Torrey Craig, all shoot the 3 over 35% and could be had for the MLE or slightly less.

[ATLTimekeeper]

A player like Clarkson is still excellent value at 13 tbh.

Very true but keep in mind you are probably not getting Utah Jazz "I know what I am in the league" Jordan Clarkson, but crappy LA Lakers "empty points on a bad team" Clarkson. Teams in the lotto should reasonably expect a starter.

I wonder if it's actually "reasonable" to expect a starter for teams in the lottery. I haven't run the numbers, but I'd be surprised if even 50% of lottery picks over the last 10 years are legitimate starters in the league. I'm guessing it's much lower than that.

That said, I agree with you about being wary of an empty stats Clarkson-on-the-Lakers type player. I'm definitely not very high on George.

You're right. I shouldn't have said 'expect' but 'aim.'