Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 9

[fredericklove]

Undefeated brah, its a waste of breath with these posters, these are same people we argue with over and over again. They stubbornly kept saying Barnes hasn't improved anything, that's nonsense at first. He's done a whole lot better putting the ball on the floor the whole season, these are greater size samples but they jump to conclusion based on 2-3 games tourney while really exclude all games sample.

And to say he's not a great shooter by statistic, they completely ignore the fact that he has a sweet jumper by textbook form/technique(elevation&release), he has a good jumpshot, everything has to do with the mental aspect, when he has confidence, he can knock down shots at will. But you know what, let them be biased, Undefeated, we know the skillset and that's all we have to know at the end of the day.

[Rapsobsessed7]

Barnes is perfect for us. His shot spaces the floor and i really love his game. Last year people were drooling over him, now its Lamb. Barnes is a stud and hes a BC guy. Hes a hard worker and hes a great kid with a good head on his shoulders. He would be a welcomed addition to this team.

[fredericklove]

With regards to his shooting, the farther NBA three-point line and longer defenders closing out means nothing. Firstly, Barnes has shown time and time again in the NCAA that he's taken and made shots extending 23-26 feet out -- the same as the NBA three-point line. Secondly, with his instant pick up, quick release and high-arcing shot, no defender is going to get their hand on that shot. While Barnes isn't a guy who can make something out of nothing, he can always call for a pick and shoot the ball in spite of how free-flowing and spontaneous the NBA game is as you say it is.

For whoever that talks of Barnes' poor % at 3 and uses it to dismiss his ability to shoot 3, its like accusing Bargs as a poor 3 point shooter because Bargs has been shooting mid-30% at 3 in his whole career. Tsk tsk tsk, so you see, statistics are certainly a biased tool to use in an argument.

[sunny]

frederick, I know you like OSU.

Did you read the recent story about Thad Matta. pretty crazy how he dealt with those injuries and didnt let it effect him.

[tdotrep2]

This is why I'd be against trading the pick for any other players. It's a pretty good draft in our range so no need to make any moves.

Exactly we'll be coming away with a very good player. Imagine if we get the first pick lol this board might shut down the servers

Haha, that's what I love about the raps board around the draft or the draft lottery this whole site shuts down cuz everyone goes crazy.

[Al_Oliver]

Could I get a summary of Sullingers game? What do people like about him? From what i've seen, he's inefficient and uses his big body to score points. Not sure how his game will translate. At this point I'd stay away. Plenty of better prospects imo.

Chris Taft in disguise looking for another chance. And I don't like him. Clearly...

[Marlo Stanfield]

Could I get a summary of Sullingers game? What do people like about him? From what i've seen, he's inefficient and uses his big body to score points. Not sure how his game will translate. At this point I'd stay away. Plenty of better prospects imo.

I haven't seen him play too often, but from what I did see these are a few things that I gathered.

-Loves to post up and use his beefy frame
-Always shoots over his left shoulder
-VERY strong
-Undersized

[fredericklove]

frederick, I know you like OSU.

Did you read the recent story about Thad Matta. pretty crazy how he dealt with those injuries and didnt let it effect him.

ah nope, tell me more about the story.

[Live Free]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kM2v_NSSTuY[/youtube]

[ash_k]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kM2v_NSSTuY[/youtube]

Dont think his game as a combo is quite ready for the elite and I don't think I have ever seen a player at 19 handle the media like that!

The kid has too much confidence!!

[Man of Steel]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kM2v_NSSTuY[/youtube]

Dont think his game as a combo is quite ready for the elite and I don't think I have ever seen a player at 19 handle the media like that!

The kid has too much confidence!!

Sounds pretty mature in his interviews, and definitely brimming with confidence. Still don't think he's a top 10 prospect in the draft, but it's definitely possible.

[PowerPhil15]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kM2v_NSSTuY[/youtube]

Dont think his game as a combo is quite ready for the elite and I don't think I have ever seen a player at 19 handle the media like that!

The kid has too much confidence!!

Sounds pretty mature in his interviews, and definitely brimming with confidence. Still don't think he's a top 10 prospect in the draft, but it's definitely possible.

trade our two seconds + calderones expiring for a first rounder to get him + a filler

Valunciunas/Amir
Bargnani/ED
Barnes/JJ
Derozen/Rivers/Forbes
Deron/Rivers/Forbes

[mango2209]

Just want to say that I played the ESPN lottery simulator 3 times and all 3 times raptors got 1st overall =D

[Tofubeque]

Just want to say that I played the ESPN lottery simulator 3 times and all 3 times raptors got 1st overall =D

The fix is in. They're shipping Anthony Davis to Siberia so they don't have to market the Brow to Americans

[OAKLEY_2]

Considering the fact that in all likelihood MKG and Davis will be gone when we pick would the Jazz trade their 9 and 13 for our 4 if we were to land that? We could possibly have our pick of players like Lamb, Lillard, Rivers, Jones III maybe even Sullinger. Let's say we netted Jeremy Lamb and Sullinger out of that. Isn't that better than just Barnes or Beal etc.? It also sets us up to move out some power forwards for other needs. Perhaps the draft is not the way to address our SF situation at all. In the swap with Jazz scenario our draft night could possibly look like
Sullinger/Jeremy Lamb/Satoransky/Augusto Lima
or
Jeremy Lamb/Jones III/Fab Melo/Robert Sacre
or
Rivers/Lillard/Fab Melo/Augusto Lima
or
Jeremy Lamb/Quincy Miller/Fab Melo/Kris Joseph

I have to wonder if the Jazz would budge from the perch where they are sitting right now?

[JV4MVP]

http://o.onionstatic.com/images/article ... le_q85.jpg

[Stalley]

Here's an ideal scenario for the Raptors. Let's say we get the 4th pick in the draft, here's what we should do:

Take Andre Drummond for the pick, then trade Andrea Bargnani for a second top 10 pick and select Jeremy Lamb with that one. These are quite possibly the two most risk-reward players in the lottery. I'm sick of this team playing it safe and drafting mediocre talent. We need stars, and these guys have Dwight Howard and Reggie Miller ceilings respectively, which would give us exactly what we need.

We then ship Bayless, Ed Davis, and our 2nd round pick to the Bucks for Brandon Jennings to secure our future PG, and yet another guy who is already solid but has shown flashes of star potential (55pt game, 24-7 through the first half of his rookie season). I feel like Jennings would be a stud if he played on a team with other high-end offensive talent.

You move forwards with:
PG: Jennings
SG: Lamb
SF: DeRozan (if he bulked up, he could defend 3s, and he'd also be quicker than most of them, which would make driving easier)
PF: Andre Drummond
C: Jonas Valanciunas

If every one of those players pans out, you basically have:
PG: Allen Iverson
SG: Reggie Miller
SF: Vince Carter
PF: Amare Stoudemire
C: Pau Gasol with defense

Obviously that won't happen, but odds are they do all improve, and at least 1 of them becomes a franchise level talent. Sorry but I'm not ok with taking a Harrison Barnes, and watching him average 15ppg for the next 10 years while we never win more than 45 games. I, like any self-respecting fan, want an NBA Championship. Sometimes a team has to gamble if they want one, and that's what we need to do in this draft.

This might be easier if we get the #2 pick, as we could just trade it down to Portland for both of theirs and take Lamb/Drummond that way while still keeping Andrea.

[fatal9]

I honestly don't think any of the lottery teams would trade a top 10 pick in this draft for Bargnani. He doesn't have a good enough reputation around the league. The only teams who would want him enough are playoff teams with a good center to pair him with (like an Orlando). Most of the mid-late lottery teams don't have a place or need for him on their team.

Best I could see in a trade for him would be somewhere in the 12-16 range (still don't know if that would be good enough tbh) and get Kendall Marshall as a possible stable PG for the future. But even then which team in that range would trade for him? Portland has Aldridge, Utah has Favors/Jefferson/Milsap, Warriors have made a huge financial commitment to Lee, Bucks have a already have a very good stretch 4 who actually rebounds in Ilyasova....Suns are really the only other team but are they really going to add another soft shooting big to their lineup? Maybe Hornets with their T-Wolves pick?

We have some decent assets to give to playoff teams (a guy like Bargnani as a stretch 4 or 6th man, Calderon as a good offensive backup PG, tough bench players like Amir/JJ etc) but these players really aren't attractive to lottery teams to where they'd give up a pick (Bargnani's contract @ 11 mil/yr also kills his value for rebuilding teams).

[RaptorReloaded]

http://o.onionstatic.com/images/article ... le_q85.jpg

[Ell Curry]

Re: Drummond
He's way more likely to be Deandre Jordan than Blake Griffin. I saw him play about a month ago at MSG. He moves well and has good size and co-ordination, but he didn't seem to know how to get open or seal off his man to catch the ball in the post. On D, he made some decent weak side rotations, but the other team (WVU) ended up with 29 offensive rebounds. He's just not aggressive enough, on either end. I think his stats show this. It doesn't mean he can't fix that problem (see Monroe, Greg), but it's a massive concern.

Re: Lamb
Obviously, I got to see him live too. His arms go past his knees and he moves fluidly and has nice form on his jump shot. I think he'll get his shot off fairly easily in the pros and considering he hit 60% on his 2pt FG's this year and showed he can play as a glue guy on a winning team last year while improving from a freshman to a sophomore, I'd have him ahead of Barnes. Not sure he has the handle to be a truly great player, but I think he could be a really nice 2nd or 3rd best player on a team. A very efficient offensive game, length on D and a good teammate.

Re: Barnes
Never seen him live. He does have the athleticism and shooting to be a really good scorer in the NBA, but his lack of improvement from year 1 to year 2 and his low 2pt FG percentage make me think he just takes too many tough shots to score efficiently. Seems like he might turn out to be the kind of player Danny Granger is this year, which is to say a pretty good one, but nowhere near efficient enough to be the top scorer on a good team and not great at anything else. I was going to throw out Caron Butler as a logical comparison, but Butler put up 20 a game on 49/40/78 as a sophomore. As a pro, in his prime (best 3 years), those numbers dropped to 20 a game on 46/32/87. Barnes put up 17 a game on 44/36/72. Say he's able to improve his FT% to 80 and manages to keep his 3pt% steady even with the longer distance but is a bit less accurate on overall field goal shooting due to facing longer, faster defenders than college 3's, and not having a great PG like Marshall to get him the ball, than we're looking at around 17-18 a game on 42/36/80, without being an impact rebounder, defender or passer. . That's basically what Kleiza give the Raps now at the 3, except he only gets 21 minutes a game. Hard to get excited about that.

On the other hand, he could get drafted 8th, see it as a slap in the face, start playing aggressively and stop taking tough shots, improve his post footwork and develop into a slightly worse Paul Pierce, who dropped to 10th in his draft. Personally, I can't get over the inefficient shooting in his 2nd year. Doing that as a freshman is one thing, but the only improvement in his game seems to have been taking 1.5 less 3's a game, and he should really have been a dominant, efficient scorer this year. Each of Caron Butler, Paul Pierce and Danny Granger (the latter two being the only high scoring SF's in the league who played 2 year of college ball) scored much more efficiently their 2nd season.