Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread III

[RapTelligence]

The players are in solid demand in turkey. Practically every day they are receiving offers from besiktas.

[G R E Y]

About Stern's so-called crazy ultimatums, to me they just come across as par for the course in negotiations. Keep in mind that Hunter also said some aspects of the deal were 'blood issues'. As far as I understand the rules they're governed by, not being willing to negotiate on an issue could've landed Hunter with an unfair labour charge. Still, it was the NBA's choice not to pursue it, chalking it up to rhetoric. The other issue about the ultimatums is rooted in the reality of lost revenue over time - the longer the negotiations continue, the more money is lost, the more the owners have to recoup, hence the depreciated 'readjustments' in the subsequent offer/offers(?)

How does moving the negotiations from 50% of BRI to 47% BRI from one day to another make any financial sense? Did the NBA just lose 3% of basketball revenue because players didn't agree to the deal based on Stern artificially created deadline date?

That whole posture was just part of the negotiations. Stern didn't believe that nor did the players. But Stern was trying to get deal done, one that was favourably to the owners before that date. By setting that artificial date and the nonsense ultimatum he was trying to artificially create sense of urgency that would naturally happened towards later December. This is because the owners really wanted to start the season before xmas. Preferable couple of weeks prior so that players would be in better shape for holiday games.

Yes it is a negotiation tactic, but it is clear that while owners have not lost 3% BRI's worth (though I'm curious to know what a daily loss amounts to for each team), the deadline in place reflects the reality of increasing losses over time. If mounting losses result in the owners preferring to lose the season, the players will suffer more. Unfortunately, those who could least afford a lost season - all the workers in the arenas - suffer the most. What is Stern supposed to do, meet with the union in perpetuity? Surely it is clear that deadlines at this point are not an artificial attempt at creating urgency. Time raising the stakes naturally takes care of that.

[Twinkie defense]

It doesn't matter that Fisher would participate now because already the disclaimer is such a transparent act. If the League wanted to ream the *NBPA for their sham they could... but they just want a deal and to start the games back up. So come along Stinky Fish, if that's what the players want...

[lyricalmilitia]

I'm calling that they finlly agree on something, just for the sake of it...

+1

[BorisDK1]

Never have truer words been written.

I would agree that it is at least a probability that the inclusion of Fisher would be problematic for the case of Hunter/Boies. But I would still put my money on that if Fisher returns to the settlement negotiations it will create no legal problems for the outstanding lawsuits.

I don't see why it would be problematic; after all, the NBPA still exists as a professional trade association and the players still are members (and are paying Boies et al., no?).

[Fairview4Life]

If the League wanted to ream the *NBPA for their sham they could...

Not in real life though. Only in the minds of some messageboard posters.

[J-Roc]

So do I get the last word of this thread?

[douggood]

according to Chris Broussard the players are hitting back strong, asking for a lot of concessions; too much imo and dont see a deal coming anytime soon.

https://twitter.com/#!/Chris_Broussard

- Players also want max salaries 4 superstars to be 30% of cap, not just 25%, as well as higher qualifying offers 4 restricted free agents

- Players also want increase in mini midlevel 4 tax teams, sign&trades 4 tax teams for life of new CBA, fewer penalties for repeat tax teams

- Lawyers 4 players looking 4 league to make concessions Friday. Players want 4-yr full midlevel contracts available every yr,10% cap 4 escrow

[ranger001]

There are good lawyers making good money on both sides. Besides Hunter, Stern, Silver and maybe half of the NBA GM's are also lawyers. So everybody is in good hands.

Should the RealGM Union decertify or disclaim interest in order for me to get a better cut?

The current offer is 0%. You can take it or leave it.

[RapTelligence]

according to Chris Broussard the players are hitting back strong, asking for a lot of concessions; too much imo and dont see a deal coming anytime soon.

https://twitter.com/#!/Chris_Broussard

- Players also want max salaries 4 superstars to be 30% of cap, not just 25%, as well as higher qualifying offers 4 restricted free agents

- Players also want increase in mini midlevel 4 tax teams, sign&trades 4 tax teams for life of new CBA, fewer penalties for repeat tax teams

- Lawyers 4 players looking 4 league to make concessions Friday. Players want 4-yr full midlevel contracts available every yr,10% cap 4 escrow

Oh boy. I guess they believe they really have the owners scared now. When is the next paycheck?

[G R E Y]

There are good lawyers making good money on both sides. Besides Hunter, Stern, Silver and maybe half of the NBA GM's are also lawyers. So everybody is in good hands.

Should the RealGM Union decertify or disclaim interest in order for me to get a better cut?

The current offer is 0%. You can take it or leave it.

Good thing then that I'm on the owners' side. Doesn't hurt me as much in the long run either way

[I_Like_Dirt]

The players' issue is they've already conceded so far on BRI (this was the union's biggest mistake) that they've really got nowhere else to go but system. I honestly think that increasing the max salary would increase parity.

Some of the others are essentially ways for the players to get more than 50% of BRI despite having bid themselves into a massive hole at the start. Honestly, I'm surprised they haven't asked for potential massive signing bonuses that only partly count against the cap towards that end. They really hurt themselves by caving on BRI so quickly, which I'm sure is why agents were so frustrated with Billy Hunter.

[G R E Y]

according to Chris Broussard the players are hitting back strong, asking for a lot of concessions; too much imo and dont see a deal coming anytime soon.

https://twitter.com/#!/Chris_Broussard

- Players also want max salaries 4 superstars to be 30% of cap, not just 25%, as well as higher qualifying offers 4 restricted free agents

- Players also want increase in mini midlevel 4 tax teams, sign&trades 4 tax teams for life of new CBA, fewer penalties for repeat tax teams

- Lawyers 4 players looking 4 league to make concessions Friday. Players want 4-yr full midlevel contracts available every yr,10% cap 4 escrow

Oh boy. I guess they believe they really have the owners scared now. When is the next paycheck?

Unbelievable. This is negotiating in good faith to get a deal done asap? Or they're just stacking their demands in the hope of getting something from the list... That 10% escrow is really going to be a problem if they don't bend from it.

[anj]

according to Chris Broussard the players are hitting back strong, asking for a lot of concessions; too much imo and dont see a deal coming anytime soon.

https://twitter.com/#!/Chris_Broussard

- Players also want max salaries 4 superstars to be 30% of cap, not just 25%, as well as higher qualifying offers 4 restricted free agents

- Players also want increase in mini midlevel 4 tax teams, sign&trades 4 tax teams for life of new CBA, fewer penalties for repeat tax teams

- Lawyers 4 players looking 4 league to make concessions Friday. Players want 4-yr full midlevel contracts available every yr,10% cap 4 escrow

This seems to mirror what the owners have been doing. Make exorbitant demands, then sing your own praises when you agree to miniature concessions.

[BorisDK1]

- Players also want max salaries 4 superstars to be 30% of cap, not just 25%, as well as higher qualifying offers 4 restricted free agents

I favour a bump in the value of max contracts because it makes it less likely to put together SuperTeams of SuperDouches like Miami. Qualifying offers can get a small bump - that won't change the financial landscape much.

- Players also want increase in mini midlevel 4 tax teams, sign&trades 4 tax teams for life of new CBA, fewer penalties for repeat tax teams

Big no on the last item. First is negotiable, second - sure.

- Lawyers 4 players looking 4 league to make concessions Friday. Players want 4-yr full midlevel contracts available every yr,10% cap 4 escrow

3 year MLE, tops. The league should insist on that.

[Courtside]

There are a whole lot of demands there. It seems to me they know they're not going to do well, so they're just asking for a lot so that when the list gets pared down they're left with at least a couple of items. The problem is when a list like this goes public and you do actually get only a part of what it seeks, it looks like yet another lost negotiation.

Broussard isn't doing anyone any favors, IMO. If this was entirely private and then an announcement was made later, it wouldn't be known just how much the players were asking for vs what they got, and whatever gains they do get could be framed in a more positive way.

[dacrusha]

Players finally mirroring the owners and their negotiating tactics... start WAY high and then rein in the demands.

[Consequence]

Am I such an apologist that I don't think the players' demands are THAT bad? The 30% max rate could be argued to be a positive for competitive balance, as Boris said, as can the higher qualifying offers (if a RFA has a higher QO from his team, makes him less likely to change teams to get a slight raise). Basically, the players are asking for these because their movement to other teams is being restricted, and I don't think that increasing the likelihood that a player will stick with a team for longer is bad. The rest of the stuff is stuff we knew the players didn't like before, correct?

[J-Roc]

Why would the majority of players want the top players to take a bigger % of the cap?

[Fairview4Life]

Why would the majority of players want the top players to take a bigger % of the cap?

So that the top players are willing to collectively bargain along with them and fight for things like an MLE for tax teams?