With the 4th Pick, the Raptors select Scottie Barnes! Part 2

[LastNameEver]

What was Suggs saying last night ???? Lol

4-17 (0-6 from 3), with 14 points and 8 rebounds.

Seems like defensively Suggs is solid. He has an ability to get steals, blocks and rebounds at solid pace.

But offensively he really needs a ton of work. He's way more raw than a lot of us realized.

Hes Josh Hart with a higher ceiling

[LoveMyRaps]

Pelton has always been an idiot.

[tecumseh18]

What was Suggs saying last night ???? Lol

4-17 (0-6 from 3), with 14 points and 8 rebounds.

Seems like defensively Suggs is solid. He has an ability to get steals, blocks and rebounds at solid pace.

But offensively he really needs a ton of work. He's way more raw than a lot of us realized.

Hes Josh Hart with a higher ceiling

Again, Suggs was -4 in a 25 point loss (T-Ross was -34!) He nearly had a triple double.

Suggs will be really good. He's not the Darko of this draft. But Raptors wanted someone bigger.

[Jcity08]

I dont care it was a b2b for the Celtics, its been so long since Ive been this emotional/excited over a rookie. Scottie genuinely and this not an exahgeration, he genuinely has superstar potential or at worst a very high end allstar.

He shown aptitude in so many areas of scoring, all it needs is some polish. And his character is amazing and I know that translates to his work ethic. And you can tell he actually loves the game, you dont have such a great IQ and composure as a rookie if you arent a savant.

Barnes is going to average triple double seasons, make all nba teams and mvp seasons. Quote me on it. I'll happily dine on crow if it doesnt happen.

Boston didn't have a B2B. They played on Wednesday not Thursday.

Oh my bad, I mixed up the OT game as a b2b.

[Danny1616]

4-17 (0-6 from 3), with 14 points and 8 rebounds.

Seems like defensively Suggs is solid. He has an ability to get steals, blocks and rebounds at solid pace.

But offensively he really needs a ton of work. He's way more raw than a lot of us realized.

Hes Josh Hart with a higher ceiling

Again, Suggs was -4 in a 25 point loss (T-Ross was -34!) He nearly had a triple double.

Suggs will be really good. He's not the Darko of this draft. But Raptors wanted someone bigger.

Yeah I think Suggs has the potential to be a Lowry/Jrue Holiday/Conley type player in his prime, but he's still a long way away.

It's clear that Barnes really has an incredibly high ceiling and the funny part is that he already seems more NBA ready than Suggs who was supposed to the guy who could contribute right away.

[Ackshun]

Barnes work ethic seems stellar. Im happy for Nick Nurse. He got a gem to build around.

My boy Davion Mitchell played some very impressive D but doesn't have anything in the tank on the other end. Cheering for him as well

[Danny1616]

His basketball IQ is off the charts. For a 20 year old to be able to see the entire court like he can, combined with his freakish size, length, athleticism, as well as his great attitude and high motor, is pretty special.

[OakleyDokely]

He's not super explosive or bouncy but he's got those Giannis-like long strides so he gets to his spots very quickly and efficiently. On that end to end self possession, he didn't take many strides to go full court.

[everdiso]

Couple things that all this just makes me think when looking back at the draft...

1. WHERE DOES SCOTTIE GO IN A RE-DRAFT?

He might be in an odd way one of the best kept secrets. I know sounds ridiculous being the 4th pick overall. But if he showed what he is now back in college, anyone sure he doesn't go #1 overall?!? Hear me out because I would say same could be said for Evan Mobley (which I'll come back to) but Evan started and on average played almost 10mpg more. If Scottie starts...gets featured more, we sure he doesn't get more eyes on him??

I mean literally feels like every game either us as fans or even commentators are saying "I didn't know he could do that" lol if he had more opportunity. Showed some more of those drives to the basket, some of the pull up jumpers, creativity off the dribble....in addition to the havoc he creates defensively and Mobley is an underrated passer but Scottie looks like he might have some special passing ability. Maybe Mobley still does go ahead because he's more polished overall with a lot of the same strengths but it may be close and come down to what a franchise values or not.

Assuming these flashes are real from both guys (Mobley/Barnes), who's overall effect maybe greater overall?! I think Mobley may be the slightly better TALENT but it's arguable the overall IMPACT could favor Barnes in the end. Both guys are going to be incredible defenders, both can guard both the post and perimeter but Scottie gets more steals. Steals generally turn into fastbreaks, blocks usually prevent a score but doesn't necessarily change ball possession. That's added impact. Scottie will likely be able to bring the ball up the court and initiate plays more often and create more overall opportunities one way or the other (scoring or passing), he averaged more than double almost triple the assists, even if Evan can pass, will have the same amount of opportunity to do so and Scottie is the better passer. So another check there. Mobley is likely the better scorer but it's not like he's light years ahead, maybe can end up being a few more ppg but the steals and assists actually have a greater OVERALL impact on his team winning games. Then there's the intangibles of Scottie bringing so much energy for his team to feed off, being vocal to help direct guys and just a leader that I'm really not sure at the peak of their potential that it could be arguable either way...

2. THIS MANAGEMENT TEAM HAVE TO BE ONE OF THE BEST SCOUTING DEPARTMENTS EVER

EVERYONE was saying this was a top 4 draft and the 4th guy was Suggs (period...well kinda lol). Because that was THE narrative all year, well until we got 4th then media somewhat soured on him and said well there's THREE potential franchise changers and then Suggs lol...and the rest of the draft.

Right now it's looking there were in fact 4 legit franchise changers but the general population picked the wrong guy; Raps scouting did not and at the height of his potential it's arguable he can't go first or second -- and yeah that's potentially over the likes of Cade (although gotta see him first, I think he'll be smart/good enough to make arguement) and Green). Not sh*tting on Suggs, he can still turn out to be a VERY, very good PG/SG in the league, MAYBE (not looking like it so far) one of the best guards but I really don't see potential to be truly special like Scottie. That like I said either FSU kept Scottie one of the best kept secrets or our scouting just caught what others didn't...and when I look at the names we were linked to in the draft -- it probably has bit more to do with our scouting (I'm sure some element of luck) but look at the guys they were connected to:

Mobley (most people are thinking could/should be the best)
Barnes (shocking people that he might make an argument for it)
Giddey (shocking people that he was in fact worthy of going that high)

These guys just seem to be able to spot them and why personally I hope we fall just short of the Playoffs AGAIN this year. I get the Playoffs offering value to young players, one year not in it isn't going to kill the whole thing lol, I'd prefer a year of great flashes that there will be reason for optimism for next season but give this scouting department one more shot in the lottery. They turned undrafted to starters, 2nd rds to key rotations, late 1sts to borderline all-stars....give them opportunity where either we remain in the 10-12 range where they can be the ones to spot the Booker, Mitchell, Kawhi, Giannis that slides but not out of the lottery OR even better fluke back into the top 4 and they spot that next other star and we're set for YEARS vs a moral victory of "experience" (a beating at that) with a steeper hill to climb and tougher road to navigate. That's just my blab n 2c

Just remember that there may have never been less significant college season to judge prospects on. Scottie literally played only 24 games in college.

He's already played 12gms in summer league / preseason / regular season so far - all of which were higher caliber games than his college games.

So if anyone thinks the draft wouldn't already have looked dramatically different if it was made today instead of in June, they're wrong.

Any team that was letting those tiny sample college counting stats outweigh pure talent scouting was making a big mistake.

[Psubs]

Hes Josh Hart with a higher ceiling

Again, Suggs was -4 in a 25 point loss (T-Ross was -34!) He nearly had a triple double.

Suggs will be really good. He's not the Darko of this draft. But Raptors wanted someone bigger.

Yeah I think Suggs has the potential to be a Lowry/Jrue Holiday/Conley type player in his prime, but he's still a long way away.

It's clear that Barnes really has an incredibly high ceiling and the funny part is that he already seems more NBA ready than Suggs who was supposed to the guy who could contribute right away.

[Madhouse]

Couple things that all this just makes me think when looking back at the draft...

1. WHERE DOES SCOTTIE GO IN A RE-DRAFT?

He might be in an odd way one of the best kept secrets. I know sounds ridiculous being the 4th pick overall. But if he showed what he is now back in college, anyone sure he doesn't go #1 overall?!? Hear me out because I would say same could be said for Evan Mobley (which I'll come back to) but Evan started and on average played almost 10mpg more. If Scottie starts...gets featured more, we sure he doesn't get more eyes on him??

I mean literally feels like every game either us as fans or even commentators are saying "I didn't know he could do that" lol if he had more opportunity. Showed some more of those drives to the basket, some of the pull up jumpers, creativity off the dribble....in addition to the havoc he creates defensively and Mobley is an underrated passer but Scottie looks like he might have some special passing ability. Maybe Mobley still does go ahead because he's more polished overall with a lot of the same strengths but it may be close and come down to what a franchise values or not.

Assuming these flashes are real from both guys (Mobley/Barnes), who's overall effect maybe greater overall?! I think Mobley may be the slightly better TALENT but it's arguable the overall IMPACT could favor Barnes in the end. Both guys are going to be incredible defenders, both can guard both the post and perimeter but Scottie gets more steals. Steals generally turn into fastbreaks, blocks usually prevent a score but doesn't necessarily change ball possession. That's added impact. Scottie will likely be able to bring the ball up the court and initiate plays more often and create more overall opportunities one way or the other (scoring or passing), he averaged more than double almost triple the assists, even if Evan can pass, will have the same amount of opportunity to do so and Scottie is the better passer. So another check there. Mobley is likely the better scorer but it's not like he's light years ahead, maybe can end up being a few more ppg but the steals and assists actually have a greater OVERALL impact on his team winning games. Then there's the intangibles of Scottie bringing so much energy for his team to feed off, being vocal to help direct guys and just a leader that I'm really not sure at the peak of their potential that it could be arguable either way...

2. THIS MANAGEMENT TEAM HAVE TO BE ONE OF THE BEST SCOUTING DEPARTMENTS EVER

EVERYONE was saying this was a top 4 draft and the 4th guy was Suggs (period...well kinda lol). Because that was THE narrative all year, well until we got 4th then media somewhat soured on him and said well there's THREE potential franchise changers and then Suggs lol...and the rest of the draft.

Right now it's looking there were in fact 4 legit franchise changers but the general population picked the wrong guy; Raps scouting did not and at the height of his potential it's arguable he can't go first or second -- and yeah that's potentially over the likes of Cade (although gotta see him first, I think he'll be smart/good enough to make arguement) and Green). Not sh*tting on Suggs, he can still turn out to be a VERY, very good PG/SG in the league, MAYBE (not looking like it so far) one of the best guards but I really don't see potential to be truly special like Scottie. That like I said either FSU kept Scottie one of the best kept secrets or our scouting just caught what others didn't...and when I look at the names we were linked to in the draft -- it probably has bit more to do with our scouting (I'm sure some element of luck) but look at the guys they were connected to:

Mobley (most people are thinking could/should be the best)
Barnes (shocking people that he might make an argument for it)
Giddey (shocking people that he was in fact worthy of going that high)

These guys just seem to be able to spot them and why personally I hope we fall just short of the Playoffs AGAIN this year. I get the Playoffs offering value to young players, one year not in it isn't going to kill the whole thing lol, I'd prefer a year of great flashes that there will be reason for optimism for next season but give this scouting department one more shot in the lottery. They turned undrafted to starters, 2nd rds to key rotations, late 1sts to borderline all-stars....give them opportunity where either we remain in the 10-12 range where they can be the ones to spot the Booker, Mitchell, Kawhi, Giannis that slides but not out of the lottery OR even better fluke back into the top 4 and they spot that next other star and we're set for YEARS vs a moral victory of "experience" (a beating at that) with a steeper hill to climb and tougher road to navigate. That's just my blab n 2c

Just remember that there may have never been less significant college season to judge prospects on. Scottie literally played only 24 games in college.

He's already played 12gms in summer league / preseason / regular season so far - all of which were higher caliber games than his college games.

So if anyone thinks the draft wouldn't already have looked dramatically different if it was made today instead of in June, they're wrong.

Any team that was letting those tiny sample college counting stats outweigh pure talent scouting was making a big mistake.

I think the issue is that the lack of development due to covid was overlooked. Another issue was that his college team Florida State lost Trent Forrest, Devin Vassell and Patrick Williams. Not only was Barnes new to the PG position in a covid year, he had to shoulder that team much more than he anticipated. Or at least should have. He wasn't able to showcase his skills all that much because they ran a 10-12 player rotation with some questionable roles. The talent around him was not as good as it was for someone like Suggs for example. Cade Cunningham did well with less talent but he was also much more a focal point and had experience running an actual offense, Barnes did not.

It's very possible that the Raptors got the best player in the draft and in any other year would not have been able to get him.

[Darkseid]

Give the keys to Barnes

He shall guide us to victory

[Alfred]

His closeouts are crazy. He covers ground so quickly and contests so many shots!

[Raps in 4]

He's not super explosive or bouncy but he's got those Giannis-like long strides so he gets to his spots very quickly and efficiently. On that end to end self possession, he didn't take many strides to go full court.

Yeah, I noticed that too. His drives look very Giannis-esque. I didn't like the Giannis comparisons pre-draft, but I can see it now. He's obviously smaller than Giannis, but also a lot more skilled.

[Raps in 4]

Hes Josh Hart with a higher ceiling

Again, Suggs was -4 in a 25 point loss (T-Ross was -34!) He nearly had a triple double.

Suggs will be really good. He's not the Darko of this draft. But Raptors wanted someone bigger.

Yeah I think Suggs has the potential to be a Lowry/Jrue Holiday/Conley type player in his prime, but he's still a long way away.

It's clear that Barnes really has an incredibly high ceiling and the funny part is that he already seems more NBA ready than Suggs who was supposed to the guy who could contribute right away.

Suggs is a certified brick layer right now. I thought he had a fairly NBA-ready shot. Apparently not. I wonder if there is a mental component to it as well. We know he bricked everything in his workout with us too. Maybe he can't perform under real pressure (college is different from the NBA).

Barnes went from looking like a kid shooting the ball for the first time in college to Kawhi from the mid-range in the NBA. Masai and Co. are **** scouting savants.

[maternal85]

Hes Josh Hart with a higher ceiling

Again, Suggs was -4 in a 25 point loss (T-Ross was -34!) He nearly had a triple double.

Suggs will be really good. He's not the Darko of this draft. But Raptors wanted someone bigger.

Yeah I think Suggs has the potential to be a Lowry/Jrue Holiday/Conley type player in his prime, but he's still a long way away.

It's clear that Barnes really has an incredibly high ceiling and the funny part is that he already seems more NBA ready than Suggs who was supposed to the guy who could contribute right away.

He was never suppose to be a guy who could contribute right away. That was just ESPN narrative. Internet scouts.

[maternal85]

Again, Suggs was -4 in a 25 point loss (T-Ross was -34!) He nearly had a triple double.

Suggs will be really good. He's not the Darko of this draft. But Raptors wanted someone bigger.

Yeah I think Suggs has the potential to be a Lowry/Jrue Holiday/Conley type player in his prime, but he's still a long way away.

It's clear that Barnes really has an incredibly high ceiling and the funny part is that he already seems more NBA ready than Suggs who was supposed to the guy who could contribute right away.

Suggs is a certified brick layer right now. I thought he had a fairly NBA-ready shot. Apparently not. I wonder if there is a mental component to it as well. We know he bricked everything in his workout with us too. Maybe he can't perform under real pressure (college is different from the NBA).

Barnes went from looking like a kid shooting the ball for the first time in college to Kawhi from the mid-range in the NBA. Masai and Co. are **** scouting savants.

The mental component is called playing against NBA players. Gilbert Arenas called it, Ujiri knew it.

[WeTheNorth123]

What was Suggs saying last night ???? Lol

4-17 (0-6 from 3), with 14 points and 8 rebounds.

Seems like defensively Suggs is solid. He has an ability to get steals, blocks and rebounds at solid pace.

But offensively he really needs a ton of work. He's way more raw than a lot of us realized.

Hes Josh Hart with a higher ceiling

Thats like saying Scottie Barnes is Kyle Anderson with a higher ceiling

[polo007]

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[Darkseid]

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I piss on Jason Kidd

I **** on him!