2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 7

[Mark_83]

No it does not and that would be a horrible trade.

What are the lotto numbers for tomorrow?

Asked the person gambling on a rookie picked 16th over the proven talent.

There's definitely a consolidation trade to be had for a wing or big in exchange for RJ, Dick or Ochai (I would prefer to keep Ochai on a team-friendly deal) but it is not for an unproven talent. The oft-suggested Lively-Dick swap? That's at least an idea.

Trading Dick for a non-lottery pick is is a stupid suggestion.

Seriously. Tell me the lotto numbers!

I've made no claims about what is going to happen in the future but you seem to already know.

Would trading Dick for the 9th pick in this draft be a good trade? What if a player we would gladly have taken at 9 makes it to 16? Is that not functionally equivalent, if not better due to the lower cap hit?

If Masai had traded Terrence Ross (the 8th pick in the 2012 draft and slam dunk champion) for the 13th pick in the 2013 draft to take Giannis, who Masai desperately wanted, would that have been a de facto bad trade?

[Psubs]

I don't think Bryant is as good and won't be as good as OG....Thats my opinion....OG the best wing defender in the league....Bryant a good defender he won't be the best in the league...And like i said i don't see the offensive upside with Bryant...I see a decent shooter/Fast break type of guy....He can't break defenders down and he can't get to the rim....He does not draw fouls....So hes pretty limited offensivly...Not saying he can never improve but like i said it will take a pretty rare development curve for him to magically get better at all these things in the NBA....

For me Bryant would be a good pick in the mid lotto early teens but at 9 i think there will be better players to choose from...

What if Bryant is a lighter, taller Ron Artest?

[PhilBlackson]

I'd like to know more about Carter Bryant's attitude.

I think Masai has thus far assembled a team that is generally devoid of knuckleheads and i think personality is going to be an important factor for #9.

Did Bryant sit in the corner and get less usage while at Arizona because he's generally passive or not that interested in putting his stamp on the game?

Or is he a Ferrari that was forced to drive in a slower lane due to teammates or coaching?

Is he a committed gym rat like JaKobe? Is he a hard worker and fun loving guy like Gradey? Is he a learning sponge like Shead? Or does he coast on his athletism, ignore his teammates and generally not care as long as someone CTCs?

I will say this... Based on what I have watched and what I have read in this thread.... If he's a personality fit with our existing young guys...we gotta go get him. He looks like a secret Ferrari.

If you want to get a greater sense of him, his personality etc then watch this interview...

Watch on YouTube

But the short of it, is he sounds very well spoken/intelligent, extremely hard worker who also wants to be one of the best players in the league but accepting of his role. There's next to no question that he would fit in with our lockerroom/culture.

[Clutch0z24]

The chances were getting an allstar at #9 is slim to none, especially in this draft, it looks to be on the weaker side when it comes to star power.

If Carter Bryant becomes a decent starter, that's high end value for the #9 pick.

Here are the last 10 #9 picks

15 - Frank Kaminsky
16 - Jakob Poeltl
17 - Dennis Smith Jr
18 - Kevin Knox
19 - Rui Hachimura
20 - Deni Avdija
21 - Davion Mitchell
22 - Jeremy Sochan
23 - Taylor Hendricks
24 - Zach Edey
25 - ?


0 allstars, and the best player of the bunch is Jakob Poeltl. Is Carter becomes a starting caliber 3+D wing who can give 10 points, hit 3's, and play solid defense... that's realistic value for the #9 pick, and no one should be disappointed.

Lol depends....Or you pick Bryant at 9 and come to find you passed up on 2 or 3 guys that became way better players than Bryant and you are scratching your head looking back....That also happens alot of the time....Which imo there will prolly be players avail at 9 that will have better careers than Bryant when its all said and done... Making a list of players drafted at #9 and then also not looking at who was picked after 9 to see who were way better players (Which means them teams got the pick wrong) is kind of silly...

Become way better? I don't know about vastly better. Do you mean score more? Barrett can score like 22 ppg but there are both ends of the floor. I want a player that will help the team win. Derozan got up to 25ppg, but couldn't shoot the 3 and his defense was below average so couldn't help the team win as much as a Kawhi.

Im saying if we did infact take Bryant 9th....I would not be shocked at all if we look back at where we picked Bryant and you see 2-4 players that are either better than Bryant or All star level guys....Just like when you look at that #9 list of picks ^ And you can name alot of players better than them in the draft class....

I like Bryant but i think at 9 there will be better players than him available....His defense is good but hes not going to be the best wing defender in the league....And his offensive game has bad limitations like other people point out....No Mid range pull up game, No Handles, Can't get to the rim, Can't break his man down off the dribble, Does not draw fouls.....Hes a 3&D who could be a good Fast break guy....Thats his game right now....And like i said the majority of them players are good players in the league and teams want them but they are never the best player on their teams or all star level players....They are just role players....Which is what i think Bryant is and will be in the NBA....Unless he has a rare development curve where he becomes an iso/ball handling/shot creating wizard in the NBA ....Which i will bet against...

[Mark_83]

Sold on Carter Bryant and Fleming

Welcome to the club.

Not sure how but need to make a trade to get both.

We gotta find a taker for Gradey and/or Ochai in the mid lotto to snatch Fleming (period), attach our 2nd if need be.

Fleming at 9 feels a little high but to me if you can give up some our SG depth to add to our SF/PF depth with him, that to me is a home run and I keep saying it but Rasheer feels like a player that MUST be a Raptor lol.

I'd do everything I can to draft one of Maluach (preferably for the added size overall) or Bryant at 9 since I think both have slightly higher upsides and then just find anyway you can to trade for RF, with Orlando being the most obvious target and I'd give MIN an outside chance if they're looking for ways to add another expiring (Ochai) although I think they might be the team that takes Coward. But walking out of this draft with whichever guy at 9 AND Fleming would be a fantastic draft and I feel like our team would actually suddenly feel pretty loaded from top to bottom.

Agreed.

Getting Bryant and Flemming would be a fantastic draft, and really balance out our roster.

Barnes - Mogbo
Ingram - Bryant - Battle
Poeltl - Flemming
Barrett - Walter/Ochai/Dick
Quickley - Shead

[XTC]

Lol depends....Or you pick Bryant at 9 and come to find you passed up on 2 or 3 guys that became way better players than Bryant and you are scratching your head looking back....That also happens alot of the time....Which imo there will prolly be players avail at 9 that will have better careers than Bryant when its all said and done... Making a list of players drafted at #9 and then also not looking at who was picked after 9 to see who were way better players (Which means them teams got the pick wrong) is kind of silly...

Become way better? I don't know about vastly better. Do you mean score more? Barrett can score like 22 ppg but there are both ends of the floor. I want a player that will help the team win. Derozan got up to 25ppg, but couldn't shoot the 3 and his defense was below average so couldn't help the team win as much as a Kawhi.

Im saying if we did infact take Bryant 9th....I would not be shocked at all if we look back at where we picked Bryant and you see 2-4 players that are either better than Bryant or All star level guys....Just like when you look at that #9 list of picks ^ And you can name alot of players better than them in the draft class....

I like Bryant but i think at 9 there will be better players than him available....His defense is good but hes not going to be the best wing defender in the league....And his offensive game has bad limitations like other people point out....No Mid range pull up game, No Handles, Can't get to the rim, Can't break his man down off the dribble, Does not draw fouls.....Hes a 3&D who could be a good Fast break guy....Thats his game right now....And like i said the majority of them players are good players in the league and teams want them but they are never the best player on their teams or all star level players....They are just role players....Which is what i think Bryant is and will be in the NBA....Unless he has a rare development curve where he becomes an iso/ball handling/shot creating wizard in the NBA ....Which i will bet against...

Off topic, but I just want your input

Who was a better player in 2015 and why

Kawhi Leonard who averaged
16/7/2/2

Demar Derozan who averaged
20/4/4/1

[PhilBlackson]

Lol depends....Or you pick Bryant at 9 and come to find you passed up on 2 or 3 guys that became way better players than Bryant and you are scratching your head looking back....That also happens alot of the time....Which imo there will prolly be players avail at 9 that will have better careers than Bryant when its all said and done... Making a list of players drafted at #9 and then also not looking at who was picked after 9 to see who were way better players (Which means them teams got the pick wrong) is kind of silly...

Become way better? I don't know about vastly better. Do you mean score more? Barrett can score like 22 ppg but there are both ends of the floor. I want a player that will help the team win. Derozan got up to 25ppg, but couldn't shoot the 3 and his defense was below average so couldn't help the team win as much as a Kawhi.

Im saying if we did infact take Bryant 9th....I would not be shocked at all if we look back at where we picked Bryant and you see 2-4 players that are either better than Bryant or All star level guys....Just like when you look at that #9 list of picks ^ And you can name alot of players better than them in the draft class....

I like Bryant but i think at 9 there will be better players than him available....His defense is good but hes not going to be the best wing defender in the league....And his offensive game has bad limitations like other people point out....No Mid range pull up game, No Handles, Can't get to the rim, Can't break his man down off the dribble, Does not draw fouls.....Hes a 3&D who could be a good Fast break guy....Thats his game right now....And like i said the majority of them players are good players in the league and teams want them but they are never the best player on their teams or all star level players....They are just role players....Which is what i think Bryant is and will be in the NBA....Unless he has a rare development curve where he becomes an iso/ball handling/shot creating wizard in the NBA ....Which i will bet against...

I'll ask it yet again...who are the players that you have at the top of your board for our pick?!

I'm interested to see who are these 2-4 players you suspect could/will be all-stars and what in your opinion makes them any more of a sure thing. Because I do find it a little funny that you referenced Booker earlier who had a very similar experience to Bryant as a freshman yet you act like there was some sort of certainty with him.

[Clutch0z24]

I don't think Bryant is as good and won't be as good as OG....Thats my opinion....OG the best wing defender in the league....Bryant a good defender he won't be the best in the league...And like i said i don't see the offensive upside with Bryant...I see a decent shooter/Fast break type of guy....He can't break defenders down and he can't get to the rim....He does not draw fouls....So hes pretty limited offensivly...Not saying he can never improve but like i said it will take a pretty rare development curve for him to magically get better at all these things in the NBA....

For me Bryant would be a good pick in the mid lotto early teens but at 9 i think there will be better players to choose from...

What if Bryant is a lighter, taller Ron Artest?

Lol you could say the same thing for any of the prospects....What if Rasheer becomes the next Kawhi, What if Noa becomes the next Prince, What if Jase becomes the next Brunson, What if Queen becomes the next Joker, What if Jaku becomes the next Nash, What if Maluach becomes Embiid, What if Fears becomes Lillard/Curry....Doesn't mean nothing...

Ron Artest was also 50x stronger and was more aggressive than Bryant....Ron Artest also showed shot creation/mid range type of shooting in college....If you know he was a 3&D guy with a shot creation game in college....Had 14/6reb/4ast with 2 steals 1 block....Compared to Bryants 6pts/4reb/1Ast/0.9stls/1blk...Like i said players usually show signs in the lower levels before they get to the NBA that they can do certain things....And Bryant has not shown he can do it...He would need a rare development curve for him to hit it...Which i would bet against...Cool if you bet he can but its just diff opinions...

[PhilBlackson]

I don't think Bryant is as good and won't be as good as OG....Thats my opinion....OG the best wing defender in the league....Bryant a good defender he won't be the best in the league...And like i said i don't see the offensive upside with Bryant...I see a decent shooter/Fast break type of guy....He can't break defenders down and he can't get to the rim....He does not draw fouls....So hes pretty limited offensivly...Not saying he can never improve but like i said it will take a pretty rare development curve for him to magically get better at all these things in the NBA....

For me Bryant would be a good pick in the mid lotto early teens but at 9 i think there will be better players to choose from...

What if Bryant is a lighter, taller Ron Artest?

Lol you could say the same thing for any of the prospects....What if Rasheer becomes the next Kawhi, What if Noa becomes the next Prince, What if Jase becomes the next Brunson, What if Queen becomes the next Joker, What if Jaku becomes the next Nash, What if Maluach becomes Embiid, What if Fears becomes Lillard/Curry....Doesn't mean nothing...

Ron Artest was also 50x stronger and was more aggressive than Bryant....Ron Artest also showed shot creation/mid range type of shooting in college....If you know he was a 3&D guy with a shot creation game in college....Had 14/6reb/4ast with 2 steals 1 block....Compared to Bryants 6pts/4reb/1Ast/0.9stls/1blk...Like i said players usually show signs in the lower levels before they get to the NBA that they can do certain things....And Bryant has not shown he can do it...He would need a rare development curve for him to hit it...Which i would bet against...Cool if you bet he can but its just diff opinions...

Easy to criticize every player without standing on any yourself,

so again who are they players you like at our pick and what makes them have any greater certainty than any of the names you just mentioned???

[Yeezus_]

What are the lotto numbers for tomorrow?

Asked the person gambling on a rookie picked 16th over the proven talent.

There's definitely a consolidation trade to be had for a wing or big in exchange for RJ, Dick or Ochai (I would prefer to keep Ochai on a team-friendly deal) but it is not for an unproven talent. The oft-suggested Lively-Dick swap? That's at least an idea.

Trading Dick for a non-lottery pick is is a stupid suggestion.

Seriously. Tell me the lotto numbers!

I've made no claims about what is going to happen in the future but you seem to already know.

Would trading Dick for the 9th pick in this draft be a good trade? What if a player we would gladly have taken at 9 makes it to 16? Is that not functionally equivalent, if not better due to the lower cap hit?

If Masai had traded Terrence Ross (the 8th pick in the 2012 draft and slam dunk champion) for the 13th pick in the 2013 draft to take Giannis, who Masai desperately wanted, would that have been a de facto bad trade?

Trading Gradey for a draft pick seems like a silly idea. You mention Giannis but that’s hindsight. If Masai knew how good Giannis would become, he would’ve traded whoever the Bucks wanted. Yes, the Raptors would’ve traded Ross for that Bucks pick retrospectively but in the moment there is lots of risk. The likelihood the 13th pick is anything other than a role player is very low.

The team needs movement shooters and spacing for Scottie to operate. We don’t have that right now. Why do people act like Gradey is some finished product? He has room for improvement on both sides of the ball and worst case, he’ll be a solid role player.

[Mark_83]

Im saying if we did infact take Bryant 9th....I would not be shocked at all if we look back at where we picked Bryant and you see 2-4 players that are either better than Bryant or All star level guys....Just like when you look at that #9 list of picks ^ And you can name alot of players better than them in the draft class....

I like Bryant but i think at 9 there will be better players than him available....His defense is good but hes not going to be the best wing defender in the league....And his offensive game has bad limitations like other people point out....No Mid range pull up game, No Handles, Can't get to the rim, Can't break his man down off the dribble, Does not draw fouls.....Hes a 3&D who could be a good Fast break guy....Thats his game right now....And like i said the majority of them players are good players in the league and teams want them but they are never the best player on their teams or all star level players....They are just role players....Which is what i think Bryant is and will be in the NBA....Unless he has a rare development curve where he becomes an iso/ball handling/shot creating wizard in the NBA ....Which i will bet against...

These you?

[Clutch0z24]

Become way better? I don't know about vastly better. Do you mean score more? Barrett can score like 22 ppg but there are both ends of the floor. I want a player that will help the team win. Derozan got up to 25ppg, but couldn't shoot the 3 and his defense was below average so couldn't help the team win as much as a Kawhi.

Im saying if we did infact take Bryant 9th....I would not be shocked at all if we look back at where we picked Bryant and you see 2-4 players that are either better than Bryant or All star level guys....Just like when you look at that #9 list of picks ^ And you can name alot of players better than them in the draft class....

I like Bryant but i think at 9 there will be better players than him available....His defense is good but hes not going to be the best wing defender in the league....And his offensive game has bad limitations like other people point out....No Mid range pull up game, No Handles, Can't get to the rim, Can't break his man down off the dribble, Does not draw fouls.....Hes a 3&D who could be a good Fast break guy....Thats his game right now....And like i said the majority of them players are good players in the league and teams want them but they are never the best player on their teams or all star level players....They are just role players....Which is what i think Bryant is and will be in the NBA....Unless he has a rare development curve where he becomes an iso/ball handling/shot creating wizard in the NBA ....Which i will bet against...

Off topic, but I just want your input

Who was a better player in 2015 and why

Kawhi Leonard who averaged
16/7/2/2

Demar Derozan who averaged
20/4/4/1

One was on a team where he was the go too guy...And one was on a team full of HOF....Not a good comp....If you put Kawhi on any other team during them years hes getting you more points and more stats in general....

Kawhi had a good offensive game and He could handle the ball a little, His mid range shot was always lethal....If you watched him in college he showed flashes of shot creation skills....While it wasn't fine tuned...He showed he had the ability to put the ball on the floor and could beat his man in a verity of ways....Bryant has not shown it much ....Go back and watch some Kawhi in college....Comparing Bryant to Kawhi is not a good one imo...

[Psubs]

I don't think Bryant is as good and won't be as good as OG....Thats my opinion....OG the best wing defender in the league....Bryant a good defender he won't be the best in the league...And like i said i don't see the offensive upside with Bryant...I see a decent shooter/Fast break type of guy....He can't break defenders down and he can't get to the rim....He does not draw fouls....So hes pretty limited offensivly...Not saying he can never improve but like i said it will take a pretty rare development curve for him to magically get better at all these things in the NBA....

For me Bryant would be a good pick in the mid lotto early teens but at 9 i think there will be better players to choose from...

What if Bryant is a lighter, taller Ron Artest?

Lol you could say the same thing for any of the prospects....What if Rasheer becomes the next Kawhi, What if Noa becomes the next Prince, What if Jase becomes the next Brunson, What if Queen becomes the next Joker, What if Jaku becomes the next Nash, What if Maluach becomes Embiid, What if Fears becomes Lillard/Curry....Doesn't mean nothing...

Ron Artest was also 50x stronger and was more aggressive than Bryant....Ron Artest also showed shot creation/mid range type of shooting in college....If you know he was a 3&D guy with a shot creation game in college....Had 14/6reb/4ast with 2 steals 1 block....Compared to Bryants 6pts/4reb/1Ast/0.9stls/1blk...Like i said players usually show signs in the lower levels before they get to the NBA that they can do certain things....And Bryant has not shown he can do it...He would need a rare development curve for him to hit it...Which i would bet against...Cool if you bet he can but its just diff opinions...

That's Artest's sophomore season stats. Roster make up matters.

[Clutch0z24]

Im saying if we did infact take Bryant 9th....I would not be shocked at all if we look back at where we picked Bryant and you see 2-4 players that are either better than Bryant or All star level guys....Just like when you look at that #9 list of picks ^ And you can name alot of players better than them in the draft class....

I like Bryant but i think at 9 there will be better players than him available....His defense is good but hes not going to be the best wing defender in the league....And his offensive game has bad limitations like other people point out....No Mid range pull up game, No Handles, Can't get to the rim, Can't break his man down off the dribble, Does not draw fouls.....Hes a 3&D who could be a good Fast break guy....Thats his game right now....And like i said the majority of them players are good players in the league and teams want them but they are never the best player on their teams or all star level players....They are just role players....Which is what i think Bryant is and will be in the NBA....Unless he has a rare development curve where he becomes an iso/ball handling/shot creating wizard in the NBA ....Which i will bet against...

These you?

Dumb to go back and find these where literally the whole real GM board and everyone outside of the realgm board had these exact opinions....There were very few posters who were on the Barnes bandwagon over the Suggs one....We just lost Lowry and were looking for a guard that possessed Suggs skills....We wanted a PG to take the reigns....To go and find these posts....To act as if it was a Hot take to pick Suggs > Barnes at that time is silly.....

And Suggs is also not a BAD player....Hes actually a very positive and a very good player....Barnes is the better player....Sure....But we are talking about Bryant here not Barnes and its a totally diff draft class....

[Mark_83]

What if Bryant is a lighter, taller Ron Artest?

Lol you could say the same thing for any of the prospects....What if Rasheer becomes the next Kawhi, What if Noa becomes the next Prince, What if Jase becomes the next Brunson, What if Queen becomes the next Joker, What if Jaku becomes the next Nash, What if Maluach becomes Embiid, What if Fears becomes Lillard/Curry....Doesn't mean nothing...

Ron Artest was also 50x stronger and was more aggressive than Bryant....Ron Artest also showed shot creation/mid range type of shooting in college....If you know he was a 3&D guy with a shot creation game in college....Had 14/6reb/4ast with 2 steals 1 block....Compared to Bryants 6pts/4reb/1Ast/0.9stls/1blk...Like i said players usually show signs in the lower levels before they get to the NBA that they can do certain things....And Bryant has not shown he can do it...He would need a rare development curve for him to hit it...Which i would bet against...Cool if you bet he can but its just diff opinions...

Easy to criticize every player without standing on any yourself,

so again who are they players you like at our pick and what makes them have any greater certainty than any of the names you just mentioned???

Could be many better....Any player that falls in the perceived top 9 could slide to us ....Maybe Kon/Fears/Queen....If Maluach hits his Peak thats a better player than Bryant if he hits his peak....Traore/Jase/Jaku (All 3 players who are high level shot creators) could all be better....Then you have Rasheer/Noa who are in the same mold as Bryant could end up better....

There are players for sure in the 9th pick area that could deff be better than Bryant....Acting as if Bryant would be a sure thing at 9 is silly....He has red flags just like the rest of the guys in our range...

So that's Konnuepal, Fears, Queen, Maluach, Traore, Jase, Jak, and anyone else in the consensus top 8. This will be fun to revisit in 3 years.

[nivisi9]

I think it will be Essengue or Bryant, I'd probably lean Essengue for the star ceiling.

I think Bryant will be a fantastic role player.

[Mark_83]

Im saying if we did infact take Bryant 9th....I would not be shocked at all if we look back at where we picked Bryant and you see 2-4 players that are either better than Bryant or All star level guys....Just like when you look at that #9 list of picks ^ And you can name alot of players better than them in the draft class....

I like Bryant but i think at 9 there will be better players than him available....His defense is good but hes not going to be the best wing defender in the league....And his offensive game has bad limitations like other people point out....No Mid range pull up game, No Handles, Can't get to the rim, Can't break his man down off the dribble, Does not draw fouls.....Hes a 3&D who could be a good Fast break guy....Thats his game right now....And like i said the majority of them players are good players in the league and teams want them but they are never the best player on their teams or all star level players....They are just role players....Which is what i think Bryant is and will be in the NBA....Unless he has a rare development curve where he becomes an iso/ball handling/shot creating wizard in the NBA ....Which i will bet against...

These you?

Dumb to go back and find these where literally the whole real GM board and everyone outside of the realgm board had these exact opinions....There were very few posters who were on the Barnes bandwagon over the Suggs one....We just lost Lowry and were looking for a guard that possessed Suggs skills....We wanted a PG to take the reigns....To go and find these posts....To act as if it was a Hot take to pick Suggs > Barnes at that time is silly.....

Lol. Please.

Go ahead and search my posts on Barnes both prior to the draft, and when the pick was made.

It's important to make note of these things for posterity.

That's why we asked you for your list now. That way we can see who knew what they were talking about at the time and who didn't years later.

[Clutch0z24]

Lol you could say the same thing for any of the prospects....What if Rasheer becomes the next Kawhi, What if Noa becomes the next Prince, What if Jase becomes the next Brunson, What if Queen becomes the next Joker, What if Jaku becomes the next Nash, What if Maluach becomes Embiid, What if Fears becomes Lillard/Curry....Doesn't mean nothing...

Ron Artest was also 50x stronger and was more aggressive than Bryant....Ron Artest also showed shot creation/mid range type of shooting in college....If you know he was a 3&D guy with a shot creation game in college....Had 14/6reb/4ast with 2 steals 1 block....Compared to Bryants 6pts/4reb/1Ast/0.9stls/1blk...Like i said players usually show signs in the lower levels before they get to the NBA that they can do certain things....And Bryant has not shown he can do it...He would need a rare development curve for him to hit it...Which i would bet against...Cool if you bet he can but its just diff opinions...

Easy to criticize every player without standing on any yourself,

so again who are they players you like at our pick and what makes them have any greater certainty than any of the names you just mentioned???

Could be many better....Any player that falls in the perceived top 9 could slide to us ....Maybe Kon/Fears/Queen....If Maluach hits his Peak thats a better player than Bryant if he hits his peak....Traore/Jase/Jaku (All 3 players who are high level shot creators) could all be better....Then you have Rasheer/Noa who are in the same mold as Bryant could end up better....

There are players for sure in the 9th pick area that could deff be better than Bryant....Acting as if Bryant would be a sure thing at 9 is silly....He has red flags just like the rest of the guys in our range...

So that's Konnuepal, Fears, Queen, Maluach, Traore, Jase, Jak, and anyone else in the consensus top 8. This will be fun to revisit in 3 years.

You are that upset over an opionion that you go back to my posts and find takes where i was not fully wrong in some of the takes btw....Sure Barnes exceeded expectations ....But he was not really a good fit and that kinda showed over time since we moved on from OG/Siakam because the fit wasn't the best and Kuminga take was spot on....Mobley the better player than Barnes so i was right there....As for Suggs....Hes not a bad player and hes good not as good as Barnes but who knows how Suggs also looks in Raptors development ....At the time it wasnt a hot take either....

Barnes is still not a franchise player and he has his limitations....DUE to his offensive bag....Just like i am talking about with Bryant....Theres no need to be that upset over an opinion....I don't see the upside you do with Bryant....No need to be upset about that...

[Mark_83]

Easy to criticize every player without standing on any yourself,

so again who are they players you like at our pick and what makes them have any greater certainty than any of the names you just mentioned???

Could be many better....Any player that falls in the perceived top 9 could slide to us ....Maybe Kon/Fears/Queen....If Maluach hits his Peak thats a better player than Bryant if he hits his peak....Traore/Jase/Jaku (All 3 players who are high level shot creators) could all be better....Then you have Rasheer/Noa who are in the same mold as Bryant could end up better....

There are players for sure in the 9th pick area that could deff be better than Bryant....Acting as if Bryant would be a sure thing at 9 is silly....He has red flags just like the rest of the guys in our range...

So that's Konnuepal, Fears, Queen, Maluach, Traore, Jase, Jak, and anyone else in the consensus top 8. This will be fun to revisit in 3 years.

You are that upset over an opionion that you go back to my posts and find takes where i was not fully wrong in some of the takes btw....Sure Barnes exceeded expectations ....But he was not really a good fit and that kinda showed over time since we moved on from OG/Siakam because the fit wasn't the best and Kuminga take was spot on....Mobley the better player than Barnes so i was right there....As for Suggs....Hes not a bad player and hes good not a good as Barnes but who knows how Suggs also looks in Raptors development ....At the time it wasnt a hot take either....

Barnes is still not a franchise player and he has his limitations....DUE to his offensive bag....Just like i am talking about with Bryant....Theres no need to be that upset over an opinion....I don't see the upside you do with Bryant....No need to be upset about that...

I'm not upset all. In fact, I'm glad I know how much weight to give your opinion going forward now. lol

Maybe you should have learned from that experience to hedge your bets better instead of stating your opinion as fact, but nope.

[PhilBlackson]

Asked the person gambling on a rookie picked 16th over the proven talent.

There's definitely a consolidation trade to be had for a wing or big in exchange for RJ, Dick or Ochai (I would prefer to keep Ochai on a team-friendly deal) but it is not for an unproven talent. The oft-suggested Lively-Dick swap? That's at least an idea.

Trading Dick for a non-lottery pick is is a stupid suggestion.

Seriously. Tell me the lotto numbers!

I've made no claims about what is going to happen in the future but you seem to already know.

Would trading Dick for the 9th pick in this draft be a good trade? What if a player we would gladly have taken at 9 makes it to 16? Is that not functionally equivalent, if not better due to the lower cap hit?

If Masai had traded Terrence Ross (the 8th pick in the 2012 draft and slam dunk champion) for the 13th pick in the 2013 draft to take Giannis, who Masai desperately wanted, would that have been a de facto bad trade?

Trading Gradey for a draft pick seems like a silly idea. You mention Giannis but that’s hindsight. If Masai knew how good Giannis would become, he would’ve traded whoever the Bucks wanted. Yes, the Raptors would’ve traded Ross for that Bucks pick retrospectively but in the moment there is lots of risk. The likelihood the 13th pick is anything other than a role player is very low.

The team needs movement shooters and spacing for Scottie to operate. We don’t have that right now. Why do people act like Gradey is some finished product? He has room for improvement on both sides of the ball and worst case, he’ll be a solid role player.

That's your opinion.

Of course movement shooting is a great thing to have with a passer but shooting in general is of value to them and the bigger problem is Gradey isn't consistent. Since I think everyone is acknowledging that both Gradey & Fleming project to be role players I think it boils down to what you value more?!

Maybe you think movement shooting with poor defence is more valuable because you think when his streak shooting is on that it's a greater impact. Personally I believe adding a bigger body that can defend multiple positions including potentially some small ball C moments with some spot up shooting is more valuable. Because when the shot isn't going (and Gradey is extremely streaky, almost Gary Trent-like), Dick doesn't offer much vs Fleming being able to at least add to our defence every night but his 3pt shot even if it isn't movement provides spacing for Scottie.


This is also keeping in mind we ALREADY have Battle who does some movement shooting albeit at a higher and more consistent clip than Gradey *ahem and that JaKobe's shooting numbers kept improving with time as he got further away from his shoulder injury early in the season. This is also disregarding the available playing time considering the sheer amount of SGs we have on the team ie/ RJ, JaKob, Ochai, Battle, Lawson, Rhoden...and Gradey. Ofc Dick is higher in the rotation than the last few names but the point is the AMOUNT of impact each player is able to make and I think there's both more opportunity for Fleming and offers the consistency defensively. Not to mention it lightens the load on Scottie defensively which Dick flat out can't do and in fact actually makes it harder for him and wears him out more which may even tilt the move more in favour imo.