2023 Draft Discussion Part 4

[UnbelievablyRAW]

We desperately need another FRP. I want Bufkin and Bilal

[Psubs]

Bufkin is going to have a Brogdan-like NBA impact I think.

I think more like a Jalen Williams-like NBA impact. Late riser from the late 20's into the late lotto.

I already think he'll be better than Poole defensively and not as much as a chucker. Poole did what he had to do to secure $28 million / per year by chucking away and putting up 20ppg. Really can't believe he fooled GS.

[UnbelievablyRAW]

Guard defense is overrated if they aren’t offensively capable players, especially since every great defense is great because of their C and forwards.

I don’t think Wallace is that much better offensively than D. Mitchell was coming to the Kings. Bufkin got the scoring chops and is a decent passer that can get better. Similar to J Murray

[OakleyDokely]

Bufkin is going to have a Brogdan-like NBA impact I think.

I think more like a Jalen Williams-like NBA impact. Late riser from the late 20's into the late lotto.

I mean more in terms of on court impact. Solid player who does a lot of things well but not particularly great at any one thing.

[Tortiglioni]

We desperately need another FRP. I want Bufkin and Bilal

There is quite a bit of depth extending into the early second round. Too bad Masai and Co. have been giving out 2nd round picks like they're free samples at Costco.

[OakleyDokely]

Guard defense is overrated if they aren’t offensively capable players, especially since every great defense is great because of their C and forwards.

I don’t think Wallace is that much better offensively than D. Mitchell was coming to the Kings. Bufkin got the scoring chops and is a decent passer that can get better. Similar to J Murray

ya, that's why I'd always lean towards the bigger player unless the smaller guard is a potential difference maker offensively.

[Psubs]

Guard defense is overrated if they aren’t offensively capable players, especially since every great defense is great because of their C and forwards.

I don’t think Wallace is that much better offensively than D. Mitchell was coming to the Kings. Bufkin got the scoring chops and is a decent passer that can get better. Similar to J Murray

That's a decent comp, but Wallace is taller by an inch and a better playmaker than Davion. Davion was also drafted as a senior aged player because he transferred.

[Yallbecrazy]

Guard defense is overrated if they aren’t offensively capable players, especially since every great defense is great because of their C and forwards.

I don’t think Wallace is that much better offensively than D. Mitchell was coming to the Kings. Bufkin got the scoring chops and is a decent passer that can get better. Similar to J Murray

You're comparing a freshman to an old senior. Cason was also better defensively as a freshman than Mitchell was as a senior.

[UnbelievablyRAW]

Guard defense is overrated if they aren’t offensively capable players, especially since every great defense is great because of their C and forwards.

I don’t think Wallace is that much better offensively than D. Mitchell was coming to the Kings. Bufkin got the scoring chops and is a decent passer that can get better. Similar to J Murray

That's a decent comp, but Wallace is taller by an inch and a better playmaker than Davion.

Wallace would be great if we had great offensive players already so he wouldn’t have to score. I think the solution of having Scottie and Pascal run point most times means we need someone who can be a threat offensively with annd without the ball and disallow doubles.

Bufkin was like 48/39/85 to end the season in college and was pretty decent in usage. Not to mention he’s a pretty good defender himself and bigger. I think we can groom him to be J. Murray-lite with Barnes and Pascal the central playmakers.

[OakleyDokely]

Whitehead measured very well. Close to 6'6 without shoes and a 6'10+ wingspan. That size, plus the fact he shot 40+ % from 3 will generate interest.

[PhilBlackson]

I like Bufkin but not as much as others....don't get me wrong seems solid. I don't know of a great comparison for him but impact wise I could be wrong but something about him reminds me of Dimwiddie. Him & Cason Wallace are both guys I'd be fine with taking but I'm just not particularily excited about because I just don't think their ceilings are that high and until there's any news of us trading for some sort of higher upside young player -- I think we need to take a swing on one this draft.

Which is why Coulibaly & Cissiko are at the top of my list with George being more a Plan B and GG being a wildcard that I wouldn't be upset with taking a gamble on BUT of course why I prefer that "gamble" be on one of Bilal or Sidy instead because they're just much better defenders with less questions about their intangibles.

Anyways hoping this is all pointless discussing because we jump back into the top 4 this evening! lol

[HumbleRen]

Rooting for Portland to get a top 4 pick.

[UnbelievablyRAW]

Guard defense is overrated if they aren’t offensively capable players, especially since every great defense is great because of their C and forwards.

I don’t think Wallace is that much better offensively than D. Mitchell was coming to the Kings. Bufkin got the scoring chops and is a decent passer that can get better. Similar to J Murray

You're comparing a freshman to an old senior. Cason was also better defensively as a freshman than Mitchell was as a senior.

Yeah and Wallace would need to show a lot more than he did to be a capable leading guard. His creation and scoring ability is still nascent while people talk up his defense and ball movement. For a team like ours we need people further along offensively with and without the ball. Especially since the FO is trying to compete

Him being good at POA doesn’t mean much when the guys he’s guarding have 6 inches on him and he’s an afterthought on the offensive end. Our bad spacing makes it even more imperative we get someone who can create and shoot

[PhilBlackson]

Rooting for Portland to get a top 4 pick.

Unless you mean literally the 4th pick, I don't lol

I want them to trade their pick + (probably Simons?) to us. If they end up with Vic or Scoot, Dame will be sent packing.

[HumbleRen]

Rooting for Portland to get a top 4 pick.

Unless you mean literally the 4th pick, I don't lol

I want them to trade their pick + (probably Simons?) to us. If they end up with Vic or Scoot, Dame will be sent packing.

I don't see them trading Dame because they landed Scoot.

They'll trade their pick if it isn't Vic.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

Agree. Multiple factors impact great defenders, that's why Marc was able to win the award. However we've seen how disruptive a team full of players with long wingspans can be.

Players aren't disruptive because they have long wingspans. FVV has one of the shortest wingspans in the league and he's disruptive. Being disruptive is a mentality with anticipatory skills and a willingness to have active hands. Having a long wingspan just allows you to be slightly more disruptive if you have that mentality when an extra few inches happens to make a difference in game situations, which isn't often.

I honestly could care less what a player's wingspan is. If they're a good defender or shot maker, it'll show up in the stats and tape, not in their listed wingspan.

FVV is an exception. IF he had a longer wingspan he would be a huge pest and All-NBA defender. As stated a lot of factors go into being a good defender and wingspan is an important one. That's why I acknowledged Marc Gasol as an excellent defender. Typically guys like OG, Smart (6'9" inches), Green (7'1" inches), JJ (7'5"), Mobley (7'4"), Holiday (6'7"), White (6'8), Bam (7'3"), Lopez (7'5") are on all-defensive teams with a combination of motor and wingspan.

It has nothing to do with wingspan. If each of those players had 3 inches less on their wingspan they would still be in the same class of defender. What would we be talking about like .2 or .3 less stocks per 36?

Nobody here has even argued for wingspan and its effect on shot release point which is weird.

Back to my point, you do not look at a guy who had 3-4 stocks per 36 in college and shy away from taking him because his wingspan is 3 inches shorter than some imaginary magic number. Stats and footage, period. The likelihood is that players putting up those kind of stats have adequate to great wingspans. If they don't, it should not be a deterrent in any regard.

[OakleyDokely]

Draft combine:

OG Anunoby: 6'6.25 (without shoes), 7'2.25 wingspan, 232.4 pounds, 9.25 hands
Jar Walker: 6'6.50 (without shoes), 7'2.50 wingspan, 248.6 pounds, 9.00 hands

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

If Kobe is 6'4.25 in no shoes, how tall is with shoes?

6.5 and a half?

6.5 lefty PG, maybe you can hope for your best Fox impersonation

Yes, now BPMGatekeeper's whole theory about 6'4 guards which he tried to apply to Bufkin has gone down the toilet and I warned him about the accuracy of listed heights.

That 1/4 of an inch isn't going to change anything. He's 6"4.

It will change everything given the amount of guards in the NBA listed at 6'5. You have zero clue about how listed heights work, it's cute. 6'4.25 without shoes means a listed height of 6'5 in the NBA.

[Kevin Willis]

Players aren't disruptive because they have long wingspans. FVV has one of the shortest wingspans in the league and he's disruptive. Being disruptive is a mentality with anticipatory skills and a willingness to have active hands. Having a long wingspan just allows you to be slightly more disruptive if you have that mentality when an extra few inches happens to make a difference in game situations, which isn't often.

I honestly could care less what a player's wingspan is. If they're a good defender or shot maker, it'll show up in the stats and tape, not in their listed wingspan.

FVV is an exception. IF he had a longer wingspan he would be a huge pest and All-NBA defender. As stated a lot of factors go into being a good defender and wingspan is an important one. That's why I acknowledged Marc Gasol as an excellent defender. Typically guys like OG, Smart (6'9" inches), Green (7'1" inches), JJ (7'5"), Mobley (7'4"), Holiday (6'7"), White (6'8), Bam (7'3"), Lopez (7'5") are on all-defensive teams with a combination of motor and wingspan.

It has nothing to do with wingspan. If each of those players had 3 inches less on their wingspan they would still be in the same class of defender. What would we be talking about like .2 or .3 less stocks per 36?

Nobody here has even argued for wingspan and its effect on shot release point which is weird.

Back to my point, you do not look at a guy who had 3-4 stocks per 36 in college and shy away from taking him because his wingspan is 3 inches shorter than some imaginary magic number. Stats and footage, period. The likelihood is that players putting up those kind of stats have adequate to great wingspans. If they don't, it should not be a deterrent in any regard.

You're doing the moving goal post thing again. We were talking wingspan, I showed that the majority of All-NBA defenders have wingspan of +3 inches or more to their height. That's not a discussion, it is what it is. I also said they have a combination of motor and wingspan which addresses your claim that they will still be a good defender with shorter arms which I am not disputing. They might still be a good defender but not an All-NBA defender.

Somebody did talk about wingspan impacting release point but that hurts your argument more than anything so I was just being polite and leaving out subjective.

Then you switched to stock which is fine but I wasn't talking about stock. If you want to talk about that I can, I think stock is very important. However some players with high stock gamble too much so you have to take that into context. I believe wingspan would help a player block shots and intercept passes. I am not sure what your point here is actually. FVV stock is not that high because he doesn't block shots. Caruso is even worse. Actually going over the NCAA stats of the All-Defensive NBA teams they generally have a stock over 2.0 per 36 but nothing like 3 or 4. Players with that high of a stock tend to not make these teams, probably because they gamble too much but that's a different argument.

I don't feel like discussing this anymore - you win, let's move on.

[OakleyDokely]

The Desmond Bane award goes to:

Mike Miles Jr: 6'0.75 without shoes, 6'0.5 wingspan