Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 8

[RoteSchroder]

I mean..so was RJ. RWB is also a trip dub machine. Also, there were games when Scottie was closer to a trip dub with TO's.

If we look at today's game, it's probably preferable to run the O through a real PG. Quickley was 15/1 in his first game back. Scottie's had trouble statistically achieving anything like that in his entire career.

Lastly, you typically want a #1 to be able to break through tough defenses and create something out of nothing during offensive droughts, rather than just being a guy who gets points in the flow of the game. Both RJ and Scottie struggle in that department. You also want your #1 to be consistently efficient.

A #1 option is able to score even when everyone on the floor knows he's shooting it.

The middy is looking like it might actually be for real, he just has a lot of confidence shooting it right now. I would like to see him get catches in the mid post area to see how that looks in crunch time. It's still a bit limited in that his range isn't that far on it and he takes it 1 dribble 2 max so he needs to catch it inside the arc to go into it but it's been by far the best development he's shown this season.

his 3 isn't bad, but prolly impacted by his ankle injury

the mid-range looks pretty consistent, can count on him for 3-4 mid-range a game which is important
his ball-handling is decent

he's looking more of a 20-22 PPG guy with 6 assist and 8 rebounds plus solid off-ball defense

a good guy to have on the team

Yup, nothing wrong with a 2A (e.g. Tatum) or 2B (Jaylen Brown). Scottie with worse scoring but better passing/big man skills.

There’s also room for improvement with his scoring.

[Vampirate]

Scottie heard y'all talking **** lol

He has giant holes in his game offensively, but his mid range potential basically sets him apart from any other player currently on the team.

IQ isn't tall enough and RJ is too reliant on converting at the rim.

A bigger Jimmy Butler was always my hope for him. His mid range game is coming a long really nicely. It's probably too late for an All Star push barring injuries to top players, but if he can consistently provide these types of performances and the Raptors can put together a stretch of health and turn around their season, All NBA might not be out of reach.

This is why it infuriates me so much when I see him jacking up pull up 3's, he has the ability to destroy teams with a mid game, which directly opens up the rest of his game. So many people complaining about him running as the PG (which is somewhat warranted) but should be complaining that he isn't just killing it in the mid range. This would be one of my main complaints with Darko and his development of Scottie.

It's not pull up 3s as much as it's shot distribution.

A whopping 35% of his total shots are the 3 which ideally should be around 25-28% or something.

[HangTime]

Do Y'all know the saying, about "how the sausage is made." Well, we actually get to see the process.

I think what people are missing is that we are seeing the "behind the scenes" (practice stuff) upfront, during games.
This is actually a treat, yet the majority don't understand, which is a shame.

[Ell Curry]

He's a very good fit as a PF in today's game. Does a bit of everything, can be your 2nd leading starter in rebounding (center should be first) blocks (center again), assists (PG) and either 2nd or 3rd in points. If we can get a legit 2-way wing in this draft or the next one, we'll start to look like a good team again.

[ATLTimekeeper]

It feels like it was just yesterday that Darko was saying this is all part of a long process to turn him into Magic Johnson. Quickley is back one game against the Nets and Darko is like, "Scottie ain't it!"

[Psubs]

It feels like it was just yesterday that Darko was saying this is all part of a long process to turn him into Magic Johnson. Quickley is back one game against the Nets and Darko is like, "Scottie ain't it!"

IQ running the PnR is much better for the offense. Barnes driving and hitting the 10 footers are money.

[Psubs]

Yup, nothing wrong with a 2A (e.g. Tatum) or 2B (Jaylen Brown). Scottie with worse scoring but better passing/big man skills.

There’s also room for improvement with his scoring.

The encouraging thing is with the mediocre drafts, beyond Wemby, most of the players like Banchero, Cade, Flagg, Harper, project to be Tatum level 2A players. All of the 1A superstars like Lebron, Curry, KD are getting old.

Even Giannis, Jokic, Embiid are getting old.

[sidsid]

Scottie heard y'all talking **** lol

A bigger Jimmy Butler was always my hope for him. His mid range game is coming a long really nicely. It's probably too late for an All Star push barring injuries to top players, but if he can consistently provide these types of performances and the Raptors can put together a stretch of health and turn around their season, All NBA might not be out of reach.

This is why it infuriates me so much when I see him jacking up pull up 3's, he has the ability to destroy teams with a mid game, which directly opens up the rest of his game. So many people complaining about him running as the PG (which is somewhat warranted) but should be complaining that he isn't just killing it in the mid range. This would be one of my main complaints with Darko and his development of Scottie.

It's not pull up 3s as much as it's shot distribution.

A whopping 35% of his total shots are the 3 which ideally should be around 25-28% or something.

He's shown promise in C&S 3s, and he should continue getting comfortable with pulling up in the rebuild years. This isn't necessarily to turn him into Paul George, but having the reps/confidence to take those shots when the need arises in games (Jimmy, who never had it as his bread and butter, brings it out in those circumstances for example).

You also want him to be able to position anywhere on the floor. He's a big wing, but he's still a wing, and dynamism in how you can work with him off and on ball is going to fuel both his efficiency and his value to the rest of the offense.

His bread and butter will always be as a high-post hub. This was clear to me about halfway through his rookie season (his playmaking, his comfort around the edge of the paint). It's why there's never been a future with Jak in it. Pure duplication of roles, and full non-spacing liability at C will never work in the playoffs. We can complain about Scottie spending too much time on the perimeter, but there's one reason for that stunting growth.

[TheGeneral99]

IQ is critical for Scottie's success because he is another elite ball handler and shooter who spaces the floor and takes enormous pressure away from him.

[Scase]

Scottie heard y'all talking **** lol

A bigger Jimmy Butler was always my hope for him. His mid range game is coming a long really nicely. It's probably too late for an All Star push barring injuries to top players, but if he can consistently provide these types of performances and the Raptors can put together a stretch of health and turn around their season, All NBA might not be out of reach.

This is why it infuriates me so much when I see him jacking up pull up 3's, he has the ability to destroy teams with a mid game, which directly opens up the rest of his game. So many people complaining about him running as the PG (which is somewhat warranted) but should be complaining that he isn't just killing it in the mid range. This would be one of my main complaints with Darko and his development of Scottie.

It's not pull up 3s as much as it's shot distribution.

A whopping 35% of his total shots are the 3 which ideally should be around 25-28% or something.

It's both IMO. He's not a good enough shooter to be taking so many pull ups, nor should he be taking so many 3's in general. Let him cut his teeth on set shots until he's got that down consistently.

[XTC]

IQ is critical for Scottie's success because he is another elite ball handler and shooter who spaces the floor and takes enormous pressure away from him.

Another?

He's the only elite ball handler on this team

I judge ball handlers by turnovers. Quickley is a 3:1 A:TO in his career, he's 3.7:1 in Toronto... that's not good, that's ELITE. Quickley dribbles with the purpose and never looses the ball.

Quickley, RJ, and Scottie have potential to be special. We just need to surround them with the right role players, and let them get reps in with each other. Add Gradey off the bench, scoring isn't the problem.

The team needs to decide if Barnes is a 3 or 4 moving forward. If he's a 3 we need a stretch 4. If he's our 4 moving forward then we need a 3+D wing. I like Quick + RJ as the guard rotation.

[Indeed]

IQ is critical for Scottie's success because he is another elite ball handler and shooter who spaces the floor and takes enormous pressure away from him.

Another?

He's the only elite ball handler on this team

I judge ball handlers by turnovers. Quickley is a 3:1 A:TO in his career, he's 3.7:1 in Toronto... that's not good, that's ELITE. Quickley dribbles with the purpose and never looses the ball.

Quickley, RJ, and Scottie have potential to be special. We just need to surround them with the right role players, and let them get reps in with each other. Add Gradey off the bench, scoring isn't the problem.

The team needs to decide if Barnes is a 3 or 4 moving forward. If he's a 3 we need a stretch 4. If he's our 4 moving forward then we need a 3+D wing. I like Quick + RJ as the guard rotation.

I don't see this core being anything good, particularly on defense. Wouldn't be surprised we only keep 2 of the 3 at most.
I hope people are not basing on our team plays well against the Nets at home to make that conclusion.

[YogurtProducer]

IQ is critical for Scottie's success because he is another elite ball handler and shooter who spaces the floor and takes enormous pressure away from him.

Another?

He's the only elite ball handler on this team

I judge ball handlers by turnovers. Quickley is a 3:1 A:TO in his career, he's 3.7:1 in Toronto... that's not good, that's ELITE. Quickley dribbles with the purpose and never looses the ball.

Quickley, RJ, and Scottie have potential to be special. We just need to surround them with the right role players, and let them get reps in with each other. Add Gradey off the bench, scoring isn't the problem.

The team needs to decide if Barnes is a 3 or 4 moving forward. If he's a 3 we need a stretch 4. If he's our 4 moving forward then we need a 3+D wing. I like Quick + RJ as the guard rotation.

I don't see this core being anything good, particularly on defense. Wouldn't be surprised we only keep 2 of the 3 at most.
I hope people are not basing on our team plays well against the Nets at home to make that conclusion.

I personally think with a top 7ish pick, and a few savvy bench pickups, you could see this team becoming a year in and year out playoff team.

From there you can work on packaging RJ + stuff or IQ + stuff for a star upgrade.

[Indeed]

Another?

He's the only elite ball handler on this team

I judge ball handlers by turnovers. Quickley is a 3:1 A:TO in his career, he's 3.7:1 in Toronto... that's not good, that's ELITE. Quickley dribbles with the purpose and never looses the ball.

Quickley, RJ, and Scottie have potential to be special. We just need to surround them with the right role players, and let them get reps in with each other. Add Gradey off the bench, scoring isn't the problem.

The team needs to decide if Barnes is a 3 or 4 moving forward. If he's a 3 we need a stretch 4. If he's our 4 moving forward then we need a 3+D wing. I like Quick + RJ as the guard rotation.

I don't see this core being anything good, particularly on defense. Wouldn't be surprised we only keep 2 of the 3 at most.
I hope people are not basing on our team plays well against the Nets at home to make that conclusion.

I personally think with a top 7ish pick, and a few savvy bench pickups, you could see this team becoming a year in and year out playoff team.

From there you can work on packaging RJ + stuff or IQ + stuff for a star upgrade.

Probably need a top 3 pick to make us a borderline playoff team, otherwise, Siakam being a 60% TS player would put us there. And we will be in the tax for being mediocre team, as we are unlikely to get a good bench with our starters reserved most of the salary.

[YogurtProducer]

I don't see this core being anything good, particularly on defense. Wouldn't be surprised we only keep 2 of the 3 at most.
I hope people are not basing on our team plays well against the Nets at home to make that conclusion.

I personally think with a top 7ish pick, and a few savvy bench pickups, you could see this team becoming a year in and year out playoff team.

From there you can work on packaging RJ + stuff or IQ + stuff for a star upgrade.

Probably need a top 3 pick to make us a borderline playoff team, otherwise, Siakam being a 60% TS player would put us there. And we will be in the tax for being mediocre team, as we are unlikely to get a good bench with our starters reserved most of the salary.

I mean if we had even meh health this year we’re already a borderline playoff team.

And not really sure what you mean by Siakam anyways.

We’re not in any sort of cap trouble either so not sure what the tax comment is about.

And our bench is honestly already decent. With more picks incoming (3 firsts in 2 years) it’s only going to get better as well.

I don’t know why it seems to be ignored that the only reason we’re as low as we are is because our team is chronically injured (and partially by design to tank IMO)

[Indeed]

I personally think with a top 7ish pick, and a few savvy bench pickups, you could see this team becoming a year in and year out playoff team.

From there you can work on packaging RJ + stuff or IQ + stuff for a star upgrade.

Probably need a top 3 pick to make us a borderline playoff team, otherwise, Siakam being a 60% TS player would put us there. And we will be in the tax for being mediocre team, as we are unlikely to get a good bench with our starters reserved most of the salary.

I mean if we had even meh health this year we’re already a borderline playoff team.

And not really sure what you mean by Siakam anyways.

We’re not in any sort of cap trouble either so not sure what the tax comment is about.

And our bench is honestly already decent. With more picks incoming (3 firsts in 2 years) it’s only going to get better as well.

I don’t know why it seems to be ignored that the only reason we’re as low as we are is because our team is chronically injured (and partially by design to tank IMO)

To me that is pretty overrating our team to claim us being healthy that we can be a borderline playoff team. I get the East is rather weak, but I don't see our defense holds up and capable of outscoring opponent for being a .450 team.

[HangTime]

IQ is critical for Scottie's success because he is another elite ball handler and shooter who spaces the floor and takes enormous pressure away from him.

Another?

He's the only elite ball handler on this team

I judge ball handlers by turnovers. Quickley is a 3:1 A:TO in his career, he's 3.7:1 in Toronto... that's not good, that's ELITE. Quickley dribbles with the purpose and never looses the ball.

Quickley, RJ, and Scottie have potential to be special. We just need to surround them with the right role players, and let them get reps in with each other. Add Gradey off the bench, scoring isn't the problem.

The team needs to decide if Barnes is a 3 or 4 moving forward. If he's a 3 we need a stretch 4. If he's our 4 moving forward then we need a 3+D wing. I like Quick + RJ as the guard rotation.

I think the best way to see it Scottie is the PG,
but IQ is the better ball handler right now.

they work well together.

A lot of Scottie's PG reps come with young (experience) players and non-shooter (What is he supposed to do with Mitchell, Jakob, Mogobo, Shead as spacers), and his ankle and eye injuries didn't help his shooting.
So, it looked bad.

Him taking the threes is to have defenses commit to him later on, because they only know him as a willing passer.

I think he's a comfortable 3 point shooter already, again playing through the injuries make it look worse.

With some spacers, it'll unlock everything else.

Nick Nurse should have given Scottie more on-ball reps in his 1st and 2nd years.

[Vampirate]

Scottie heard y'all talking **** lol


This is why it infuriates me so much when I see him jacking up pull up 3's, he has the ability to destroy teams with a mid game, which directly opens up the rest of his game. So many people complaining about him running as the PG (which is somewhat warranted) but should be complaining that he isn't just killing it in the mid range. This would be one of my main complaints with Darko and his development of Scottie.

It's not pull up 3s as much as it's shot distribution.

A whopping 35% of his total shots are the 3 which ideally should be around 25-28% or something.

It's both IMO. He's not a good enough shooter to be taking so many pull ups, nor should he be taking so many 3's in general. Let him cut his teeth on set shots until he's got that down consistently.

I have a hunch this year is about getting the movements before the shots in so it becomes more natural. Before the wacky dance he had a very clean move to the right for a pull up corner 3.

(also his 3 point shooting at above the break dead center is at 35%, the picture below is not including last night's game)



He needs one of those 20% or 28% to become over 30%

It's this off season when he actually needs to work on converting them.

I want him to be taking longer shots in general and not be post reliant.



As for the whole narrative that he didn't improve, people need to look at what he's doing on his 2s



Any improvement on his three (like a good month, and suddenly he's a 21-23PPG scorer, keeping in mind he's averaging 20 ppg despite the 3 point slump/regression/whatever you think it is.

[YogurtProducer]

Probably need a top 3 pick to make us a borderline playoff team, otherwise, Siakam being a 60% TS player would put us there. And we will be in the tax for being mediocre team, as we are unlikely to get a good bench with our starters reserved most of the salary.

I mean if we had even meh health this year we’re already a borderline playoff team.

And not really sure what you mean by Siakam anyways.

We’re not in any sort of cap trouble either so not sure what the tax comment is about.

And our bench is honestly already decent. With more picks incoming (3 firsts in 2 years) it’s only going to get better as well.

I don’t know why it seems to be ignored that the only reason we’re as low as we are is because our team is chronically injured (and partially by design to tank IMO)

To me that is pretty overrating our team to claim us being healthy that we can be a borderline playoff team. I get the East is rather weak, but I don't see our defense holds up and capable of outscoring opponent for being a .450 team.

Well lets wait until we see 1 minute of our actual team before we completely write them off

The crazy part is our most used lineup is Davion/Ochai/Dick/Barrett/Poeltl and it actually has a positive NRTG of +3.6, and that is with that lineup mostly starting together and playing against other teams starters. Imagine replacing two of them with IQ/Scottie and where it would be.

We have a lost a LOT of games this year just based off the fact that were are constantly starting our 7th/8th men, and utilizing our 13th/14th men as key bench pieces. That is going to be make a significant difference next year when we actually roll a real 9/10 man rotation with our top 9/10 guys and not constantly sitting 1/2 starters and 1/2 key bench pieces.

[HiJiNX]

IQ is critical for Scottie's success because he is another elite ball handler and shooter who spaces the floor and takes enormous pressure away from him.

Another?

He's the only elite ball handler on this team

I judge ball handlers by turnovers. Quickley is a 3:1 A:TO in his career, he's 3.7:1 in Toronto... that's not good, that's ELITE. Quickley dribbles with the purpose and never looses the ball.

Quickley, RJ, and Scottie have potential to be special. We just need to surround them with the right role players, and let them get reps in with each other. Add Gradey off the bench, scoring isn't the problem.

The team needs to decide if Barnes is a 3 or 4 moving forward. If he's a 3 we need a stretch 4. If he's our 4 moving forward then we need a 3+D wing. I like Quick + RJ as the guard rotation.

I think the best way to see it Scottie is the PG,
but IQ is the better ball handler right now.

they work well together.

A lot of Scottie's PG reps come with young (experience) players and non-shooter (What is he supposed to do with Mitchell, Jakob, Mogobo, Shead as spacers), and his ankle and eye injuries didn't help his shooting.
So, it looked bad.

Him taking the threes is to have defenses commit to him later on, because they only know him as a willing passer.

I think he's a comfortable 3 point shooter already, again playing through the injuries make it look worse.

With some spacers, it'll unlock everything else.

Nick Nurse should have given Scottie more on-ball reps in his 1st and 2nd years.

Exactly.

Scottie is being given the ball on the perimeter and being asked to shoot threes to develop those skills, not to make those things his bread and butter. Having those options as complements to what he can do 18 feet in will make him much more likely to be the player I think we all hope he can be.

He needs to be comfortable doing everything even if the pull-up 3 only becomes a release valve later on. Better to practice it now in a losing season.