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Official Brandon Ingram Thread

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Re: Official Brandon Ingram Thread 

Post#1521 » by HiJiNX » Fri Dec 5, 2025 6:42 pm

Tha Cynic wrote:
HiJiNX wrote:Bad shots look worse when you’re missing the good ones and that’s what’s happened the last few games, especially against the Lakers. I thought his process with the Lakers was perfect on offence (except one or two shots but whatever), the shots just weren’t falling. It happens.

I don’t mind him getting the last shot either. That’s what he’s here for. He should only be giving it up if the D stifles the ball out of his hands.


I think the one thing I would focus on is changing his scouting report on offense. It most likely says right now that you can send a hard double when he receives the ball and he won’t pass when it’s crunch time. This needs to change. We can get much better looks. I think yesterday was the start of this process. He was actually looking to pass.

Agreed. And yeah, I was happy to see him get the ball yesterday and look to pass first when it was the right play. Yet…there were still a couple possessions where he didn’t do that.
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Re: Official Brandon Ingram Thread 

Post#1522 » by LoveMyRaps » Fri Dec 5, 2025 8:11 pm

-1.7 BPM

Need him to step it up.
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Re: Official Brandon Ingram Thread 

Post#1523 » by ConSarnit » Fri Dec 5, 2025 8:54 pm

PushDaRock wrote:
ConSarnit wrote:
PushDaRock wrote:
Even with all the flaws, his talent level is high end. We were hoping to be able to optimize the things he does well, improve on some of the weaknesses a bit and get him playing a bit differently/smarter. We were able to do that with RJ so there was at least some optimism we could with Ingram too. Before the last 5 games, there were more positives than negatives. Bad habits are hard to break though and we have seen them resurface through this poor stretch of play.


We’re trying. He’s at the highest FG assisted % he’s ever been at. We’re trying to use his off-ball gravity more. Use him more as a finisher than initiator. All in all he’s about exactly who I expected him to be. I hoped we’d be able to scale his 3pt shooting more but that hasn’t materialized.

I guess I’m just a firm believer that after 10 seasons a guy is who he is. He’s a fine player who allows everyone else to fit into a better role. It feels like the posters complaining about his flaws never watched him play before this season.


His 3 point shot being broken right now has been hurting, makes everything that much more difficult. I would expect things to look better if he can get that back on track.

Nobody should expect huge changes from him, but we are talking about small adjustments here and there that would help get more out of him. If he's doing his volume scoring thing, shouldering the ISO's and converting at around 58-60 TS%, he's doing his job.

I would say the one surprise has been his AST% totally tanking. He's been in the upper 20's the last 5 seasons, doesn't make much sense that it's down to 16.8 AST% on a team that moves the ball as much as we do. There's probably some lack of comfort still in our system which would explain some of that.


I don’t know the exact math but I’m guessing if he started hitting his 3’s at his normal rate his TS would be back to the 59-60% range. He’s shooting 29% on ATB 3’s. He’s normally around 38% from ATB. Ingrams current inefficiency can almost exclusively be boiled down to 6-7 miss/makes on ATB 3’s. He’s missing wide open shots he usually hits.

His assist% is tanking because his pnr ball handler frequency has been cut in half from his NOP heyday. He’s not getting the ball handling touches he’s used to. I don’t even think his ast% being down is necessarily a bad thing. He’s not a great passer. He’s an ok passer who got assists because he got the types of possessions that lead to assists. He’s not the guy you want running your offense. He did so in NOP because no one else could do it (with Zion being injured all the time). We have more creators here so we don’t need to over tax him as a creator for others.
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Re: Official Brandon Ingram Thread 

Post#1524 » by tsherkin » Fri Dec 5, 2025 9:20 pm

ConSarnit wrote:
I don’t know the exact math but I’m guessing if he started hitting his 3’s at his normal rate his TS would be back to the 59-60% range. He’s shooting 29% on ATB 3’s. He’s normally around 38% from ATB. Ingrams current inefficiency can almost exclusively be boiled down to 6-7 miss/makes on ATB 3’s. He’s missing wide open shots he usually hits.

His assist% is tanking because his pnr ball handler frequency has been cut in half from his NOP heyday. He’s not getting the ball handling touches he’s used to. I don’t even think his ast% being down is necessarily a bad thing. He’s not a great passer. He’s an ok passer who got assists because he got the types of possessions that lead to assists. He’s not the guy you want running your offense. He did so in NOP because no one else could do it (with Zion being injured all the time). We have more creators here so we don’t need to over tax him as a creator for others.


Ayep, this is pretty much the score. We don't need him to dominate individually as much, and actively benefit from getting the ball into the hands of guys like Scottie (and RJ, in certain plays), so there's no real need for a unipolar setup like he had before.

The 3 will normalize. We have a massive sample of his actual shooting ability from there, that doesn't concern me at all right now. It even matches his last reasonably full-ish season, too.
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Re: Official Brandon Ingram Thread 

Post#1525 » by PushDaRock » Fri Dec 5, 2025 9:22 pm

ConSarnit wrote:
PushDaRock wrote:
ConSarnit wrote:
We’re trying. He’s at the highest FG assisted % he’s ever been at. We’re trying to use his off-ball gravity more. Use him more as a finisher than initiator. All in all he’s about exactly who I expected him to be. I hoped we’d be able to scale his 3pt shooting more but that hasn’t materialized.

I guess I’m just a firm believer that after 10 seasons a guy is who he is. He’s a fine player who allows everyone else to fit into a better role. It feels like the posters complaining about his flaws never watched him play before this season.


His 3 point shot being broken right now has been hurting, makes everything that much more difficult. I would expect things to look better if he can get that back on track.

Nobody should expect huge changes from him, but we are talking about small adjustments here and there that would help get more out of him. If he's doing his volume scoring thing, shouldering the ISO's and converting at around 58-60 TS%, he's doing his job.

I would say the one surprise has been his AST% totally tanking. He's been in the upper 20's the last 5 seasons, doesn't make much sense that it's down to 16.8 AST% on a team that moves the ball as much as we do. There's probably some lack of comfort still in our system which would explain some of that.


I don’t know the exact math but I’m guessing if he started hitting his 3’s at his normal rate his TS would be back to the 59-60% range. He’s shooting 29% on ATB 3’s. He’s normally around 38% from ATB. Ingrams current inefficiency can almost exclusively be boiled down to 6-7 miss/makes on ATB 3’s. He’s missing wide open shots he usually hits.

His assist% is tanking because his pnr ball handler frequency has been cut in half from his NOP heyday. He’s not getting the ball handling touches he’s used to. I don’t even think his ast% being down is necessarily a bad thing. He’s not a great passer. He’s an ok passer who got assists because he got the types of possessions that lead to assists. He’s not the guy you want running your offense. He did so in NOP because no one else could do it (with Zion being injured all the time). We have more creators here so we don’t need to over tax him as a creator for others.


Yeah, so it's not going to take much to get him back to what we expect out of him.

Maybe he won't rock a upper 20's AST% without as much PNR opportunities, but the TOV% needs to come down if he's not going to be much of a passer out there. It's too high right now for that kind of shot diet where he doesn't generate much rim pressure or playmaking on the floor.
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Re: Official Brandon Ingram Thread 

Post#1526 » by MikeM » Fri Dec 5, 2025 11:28 pm

He sucks
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Re: Official Brandon Ingram Thread 

Post#1527 » by rapsincr » Sat Dec 6, 2025 7:23 am

ill be honest, hes barely even playable atm. he looks like he doesnt give a **** out there.
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Re: Official Brandon Ingram Thread 

Post#1528 » by bballsparkin » Sat Dec 6, 2025 7:39 am

It would help if he had more shooters around him. It's pretty clogged up inside.
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Re: Official Brandon Ingram Thread 

Post#1529 » by tsherkin » Sun Dec 7, 2025 10:11 am

That was not an amazing performance.
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Re: Official Brandon Ingram Thread 

Post#1530 » by Raps in 4 » Sun Dec 7, 2025 7:10 pm

LoveMyRaps wrote:-1.7 BPM

Need him to step it up.


BI is who he is: a middling efficiency, no-defense chucker. The efficiency will come up a bit as the season progresses (he's always been streaky), but people shouldn't expect star-level production from him.
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Re: Official Brandon Ingram Thread 

Post#1531 » by Agimat » Sun Dec 7, 2025 9:53 pm

I thought health was the only thing holding him back, but mans has zero intangibles
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Re: Official Brandon Ingram Thread 

Post#1532 » by HiJiNX » Mon Dec 8, 2025 1:55 pm

ConSarnit wrote:
PushDaRock wrote:
ConSarnit wrote:
We’re trying. He’s at the highest FG assisted % he’s ever been at. We’re trying to use his off-ball gravity more. Use him more as a finisher than initiator. All in all he’s about exactly who I expected him to be. I hoped we’d be able to scale his 3pt shooting more but that hasn’t materialized.

I guess I’m just a firm believer that after 10 seasons a guy is who he is. He’s a fine player who allows everyone else to fit into a better role. It feels like the posters complaining about his flaws never watched him play before this season.


His 3 point shot being broken right now has been hurting, makes everything that much more difficult. I would expect things to look better if he can get that back on track.

Nobody should expect huge changes from him, but we are talking about small adjustments here and there that would help get more out of him. If he's doing his volume scoring thing, shouldering the ISO's and converting at around 58-60 TS%, he's doing his job.

I would say the one surprise has been his AST% totally tanking. He's been in the upper 20's the last 5 seasons, doesn't make much sense that it's down to 16.8 AST% on a team that moves the ball as much as we do. There's probably some lack of comfort still in our system which would explain some of that.


I don’t know the exact math but I’m guessing if he started hitting his 3’s at his normal rate his TS would be back to the 59-60% range. He’s shooting 29% on ATB 3’s. He’s normally around 38% from ATB. Ingrams current inefficiency can almost exclusively be boiled down to 6-7 miss/makes on ATB 3’s. He’s missing wide open shots he usually hits.

His assist% is tanking because his pnr ball handler frequency has been cut in half from his NOP heyday. He’s not getting the ball handling touches he’s used to. I don’t even think his ast% being down is necessarily a bad thing. He’s not a great passer. He’s an ok passer who got assists because he got the types of possessions that lead to assists. He’s not the guy you want running your offense. He did so in NOP because no one else could do it (with Zion being injured all the time). We have more creators here so we don’t need to over tax him as a creator for others.

You’re absolutely right that he’s not the guy you want running your offense. But our front office and coaching staff haven’t clued into that yet. We are overextending him, which makes him and the team look worse.
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Re: Official Brandon Ingram Thread 

Post#1533 » by HiJiNX » Mon Dec 8, 2025 2:03 pm

tsherkin wrote:That was not an amazing performance.

Agreed. The problem is the box score says otherwise so fans will think the answer is more Ingram. But I think opponents are cluing into his habits and role here — he is going to try to score come hell or high water. So just crowd him with an extra defender without leaving an easy outlet one pass away or in the paint, or alternatively, force him into a turnaround and get into his space down below instead of jumping with him. Even if he makes his shots it’s going to take the rest of his team out of the game because…he’s just going to keep shooting. This pattern started before RJ went down. Since then it’s only gotten worse.
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Re: Official Brandon Ingram Thread 

Post#1534 » by PushDaRock » Mon Dec 8, 2025 3:04 pm

HiJiNX wrote:
ConSarnit wrote:
PushDaRock wrote:
His 3 point shot being broken right now has been hurting, makes everything that much more difficult. I would expect things to look better if he can get that back on track.

Nobody should expect huge changes from him, but we are talking about small adjustments here and there that would help get more out of him. If he's doing his volume scoring thing, shouldering the ISO's and converting at around 58-60 TS%, he's doing his job.

I would say the one surprise has been his AST% totally tanking. He's been in the upper 20's the last 5 seasons, doesn't make much sense that it's down to 16.8 AST% on a team that moves the ball as much as we do. There's probably some lack of comfort still in our system which would explain some of that.


I don’t know the exact math but I’m guessing if he started hitting his 3’s at his normal rate his TS would be back to the 59-60% range. He’s shooting 29% on ATB 3’s. He’s normally around 38% from ATB. Ingrams current inefficiency can almost exclusively be boiled down to 6-7 miss/makes on ATB 3’s. He’s missing wide open shots he usually hits.

His assist% is tanking because his pnr ball handler frequency has been cut in half from his NOP heyday. He’s not getting the ball handling touches he’s used to. I don’t even think his ast% being down is necessarily a bad thing. He’s not a great passer. He’s an ok passer who got assists because he got the types of possessions that lead to assists. He’s not the guy you want running your offense. He did so in NOP because no one else could do it (with Zion being injured all the time). We have more creators here so we don’t need to over tax him as a creator for others.

You’re absolutely right that he’s not the guy you want running your offense. But our front office and coaching staff haven’t clued into that yet. We are overextending him, which makes him and the team look worse.


I'm pretty sure they are aware of it, they're not dumb. There's likely some experimentation going on while RJ is out.
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Official Brandon Ingram Thread 

Post#1535 » by youngRAPZ » Mon Dec 8, 2025 3:51 pm

lol let’s be honest you guys would complain about prime Jordan if we had him.

I could see it now…

“Omg Jordan is a fraud we lost to the expansion raptors” on the way to a 72 win season.

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Re: Official Brandon Ingram Thread 

Post#1536 » by ConSarnit » Mon Dec 8, 2025 4:19 pm

HiJiNX wrote:
ConSarnit wrote:
PushDaRock wrote:
His 3 point shot being broken right now has been hurting, makes everything that much more difficult. I would expect things to look better if he can get that back on track.

Nobody should expect huge changes from him, but we are talking about small adjustments here and there that would help get more out of him. If he's doing his volume scoring thing, shouldering the ISO's and converting at around 58-60 TS%, he's doing his job.

I would say the one surprise has been his AST% totally tanking. He's been in the upper 20's the last 5 seasons, doesn't make much sense that it's down to 16.8 AST% on a team that moves the ball as much as we do. There's probably some lack of comfort still in our system which would explain some of that.


I don’t know the exact math but I’m guessing if he started hitting his 3’s at his normal rate his TS would be back to the 59-60% range. He’s shooting 29% on ATB 3’s. He’s normally around 38% from ATB. Ingrams current inefficiency can almost exclusively be boiled down to 6-7 miss/makes on ATB 3’s. He’s missing wide open shots he usually hits.

His assist% is tanking because his pnr ball handler frequency has been cut in half from his NOP heyday. He’s not getting the ball handling touches he’s used to. I don’t even think his ast% being down is necessarily a bad thing. He’s not a great passer. He’s an ok passer who got assists because he got the types of possessions that lead to assists. He’s not the guy you want running your offense. He did so in NOP because no one else could do it (with Zion being injured all the time). We have more creators here so we don’t need to over tax him as a creator for others.

You’re absolutely right that he’s not the guy you want running your offense. But our front office and coaching staff haven’t clued into that yet. We are overextending him, which makes him and the team look worse.


We’re really not.

His pnr frequency is down to 17%. In NOP he was at 27-28%.

He’s being assisted on 48% of his 2’s (career high by far). He’s being assisted on 89% of his 3’s (highest rate since he became a “star” in NOP).

Ingram is relying more on teammates to create shots for him than pretty much any season of his career. He’s being used as a finisher much more often than he was in NOP.
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Re: Official Brandon Ingram Thread 

Post#1537 » by PushDaRock » Mon Dec 8, 2025 4:36 pm

ConSarnit wrote:
HiJiNX wrote:
ConSarnit wrote:
I don’t know the exact math but I’m guessing if he started hitting his 3’s at his normal rate his TS would be back to the 59-60% range. He’s shooting 29% on ATB 3’s. He’s normally around 38% from ATB. Ingrams current inefficiency can almost exclusively be boiled down to 6-7 miss/makes on ATB 3’s. He’s missing wide open shots he usually hits.

His assist% is tanking because his pnr ball handler frequency has been cut in half from his NOP heyday. He’s not getting the ball handling touches he’s used to. I don’t even think his ast% being down is necessarily a bad thing. He’s not a great passer. He’s an ok passer who got assists because he got the types of possessions that lead to assists. He’s not the guy you want running your offense. He did so in NOP because no one else could do it (with Zion being injured all the time). We have more creators here so we don’t need to over tax him as a creator for others.

You’re absolutely right that he’s not the guy you want running your offense. But our front office and coaching staff haven’t clued into that yet. We are overextending him, which makes him and the team look worse.


We’re really not.

His pnr frequency is down to 17%. In NOP he was at 27-28%.

He’s being assisted on 48% of his 2’s (career high by far). He’s being assisted on 89% of his 3’s (highest rate since he became a “star” in NOP).

Ingram is relying more on teammates to create shots for him than pretty much any season of his career. He’s being used as a finisher much more often than he was in NOP.


The complaints are mostly about his play without RJ where his USG has shot up above 30% in those games, but yes I think we are using him differently especially when we have everyone available.

The turnovers continue to be an issue. They shouldn't be this high when you're not doing much playmaking out there.
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Re: Official Brandon Ingram Thread 

Post#1538 » by HiJiNX » Mon Dec 8, 2025 7:37 pm

ConSarnit wrote:
HiJiNX wrote:
ConSarnit wrote:
I don’t know the exact math but I’m guessing if he started hitting his 3’s at his normal rate his TS would be back to the 59-60% range. He’s shooting 29% on ATB 3’s. He’s normally around 38% from ATB. Ingrams current inefficiency can almost exclusively be boiled down to 6-7 miss/makes on ATB 3’s. He’s missing wide open shots he usually hits.

His assist% is tanking because his pnr ball handler frequency has been cut in half from his NOP heyday. He’s not getting the ball handling touches he’s used to. I don’t even think his ast% being down is necessarily a bad thing. He’s not a great passer. He’s an ok passer who got assists because he got the types of possessions that lead to assists. He’s not the guy you want running your offense. He did so in NOP because no one else could do it (with Zion being injured all the time). We have more creators here so we don’t need to over tax him as a creator for others.

You’re absolutely right that he’s not the guy you want running your offense. But our front office and coaching staff haven’t clued into that yet. We are overextending him, which makes him and the team look worse.


We’re really not.

His pnr frequency is down to 17%. In NOP he was at 27-28%.

He’s being assisted on 48% of his 2’s (career high by far). He’s being assisted on 89% of his 3’s (highest rate since he became a “star” in NOP).

Ingram is relying more on teammates to create shots for him than pretty much any season of his career. He’s being used as a finisher much more often than he was in NOP.

I think it’s misleading to utilize comparison stats in this context. The situations in NO versus the situation here is much different (different roster being a massive difference).

Diving deeper, Toronto doesn’t run a lot of pnr to begin with. Also, I assume the assisted twos and threes stats reflect made shots, not attempts — but I may be wrong about that. Nonetheless, averages don’t indicate trends like what we have been seeing in the last two weeks, where we have been leaning too much on Ingram to negative effect. In fact, Shead recently said that Ingram might have been slumping as a result of tired legs, which makes sense because he plays the most minutes on the team and has the highest usage in high leverage moments. To add, the stats you posted don’t indicate how long he has the ball when he gets it, the passes he chooses not to make in order to hunt his own shot, etc.

All this to say that your stats don’t say what you think they say. We can just watch the games and see what’s happening. And again, as I always say on here, stats need to be applied with context. Furthermore, stats can’t measure the psychology of the game (ex. player confidence, rhythm and flow, momentum, etc.), which has a massive impact on what happens on the court.
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Re: Official Brandon Ingram Thread 

Post#1539 » by tsherkin » Mon Dec 8, 2025 7:51 pm

HiJiNX wrote:All this to say that your stats don’t say what you think they say. We can just watch the games and see what’s happening. And again, as I always say on here, stats need to be applied with context. Furthermore, stats can’t measure the psychology of the game (ex. player confidence, rhythm and flow, momentum, etc.), which has a massive impact on what happens on the court.


There are other numbers which illustrate all of what you're saying, too. He's barely top 150 in passes made per game, but the Raptors as a team are 4th in the league in APG. He's 23rd in the league in iso possessions per game and 61st in PnR Handler possessions. 4 of his 17 shots per game are catch-and-shoot looks. 4.4 of them are from 0-7 seconds remaining on the clock. 6.4 of his FGA/g come after taking 3+ dribbles. 7.8 of them come with a defender 4+ feet from him, but only 1.9 with a defender more than 6 feet from him.

He sees loads of contested looks, he dribbles a lot, he takes 4.8 FGA/g out of 17 out of isos and PnR action (which feels a little like a low-ball number to me, and probably doesn't reflect the post-RJ trend) and he shoots quite a lot late in the clock. In 5 of the last 8 games, he's taken 20+ FGA/g (including a 30-shot game!), so he's really feeling the load above and beyond his normal usage. He had a single game of 20+ FGA prior to these past 8 games.

This is exactly what you're talking about.
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Re: Official Brandon Ingram Thread 

Post#1540 » by LoveMyRaps » Mon Dec 8, 2025 7:53 pm

Raps in 4 wrote:
LoveMyRaps wrote:-1.7 BPM

Need him to step it up.


BI is who he is: a middling efficiency, no-defense chucker. The efficiency will come up a bit as the season progresses (he's always been streaky), but people shouldn't expect star-level production from him.


I'm still happy with the trade and extension.
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