OT: Andrew Wiggins Discussion Thread

[Waylon Mercy]

Looks like Embiid vs. Parker for the number 1 pick...

I wouldn't mind Wiggins in the 3-5 range if we can get there since we desperately need
a solid SF.

[TheLastTimeLord]

Embiid is very raw. No denying his talent but I think if a team takes him 1st they are taking a risk

[Ragnar0k]

Yeah Embiid is going to surpass Wiggins in the draft; quite easily.

Maybe, I think it's still a bit early to make a definitive statement like that.

A lot of things depend on their individual psychological makeup. It all depends on how badly they want to get better. they both have the physical tools and the potential - who wants it more?

Right now Embiid easily shows he does.

Joel seems like he's figuring out the game and just getting comfortable asserting himself but he's willing to do so and increasing in confidence with every game.

Wiggins on the otherhand has been criticized for being complacent and unassertive since highschool and he continues that trend. He's really going to need a coaching staff and teammates to help push him further (as it stands now) because right now with Self already giving him leeway publicly he seems more than content to blend in unless directly challenged. Embiid is just stepping up more and more every game...

I'm fairly confident betting Embiid surpasses Andrew as much as I don't want that to be true.

Yeah, I think that's pretty fair to say at this point. If the draft were held today, based on what we've all seen, I'd likely take Joel ahead of Andrew, but it's still quite early in their careers.

Wiggins needing a fire lit under his butt could be a positive, but also a negative if there's nothing hot enough to set him off.

[The_Hater]

your thought on Noah Vonleh ? and Ennis...

I starting to focus more on the guys that fall in the 5-10 range as that seems like realistic scenario this season

I like Vonleh's potential a lot. I haven't seen Ennis play this season yet but I noticed that his stats took a significant uptick recently.

I've seen both the good and the bad in Gordon and hope he stays at Zona one more year. I think he's got great instincts for the game just not sure he's got star potential.

[Undefeated]

Wiggins has been a disappointment. His production is too low for a prospect of his caliber. In fact his production is similar to Bradley Beal's freshman year and he was selected third in what considered a one man draft class.

Anyone that saw him play in HS knew he wasn't going to reach those ridiculous expectations as an unstoppable scorer which was why I said during the summer that Jabari will be the better player, but Wiggins has been playing steadily well. It seems like a lot people just watched him play today and thought he plays like this usually. The offense often runs through the bigs and it makes sense when you've got Perry Ellis and Joel Embiid in the interior. Plus, Tarik Black played a great game today. But when those guys are in foul trouble, Wiggins usually steps up like he did against Florida and Colorado. And those teams are difficult to beat on the road where he almost single-handedly won the game by himself.

[Ragnar0k]

I wonder if to some degree, Wiggins is just biding his time until March Madness. He might have people in his ear to tell him to take it easy until then, to not risk injury etc - but hard to say. We can only go on what we see on the court.

[TheGoodDoctor]

Embiid is very raw. No denying his talent but I think if a team takes him 1st they are taking a risk

Agreed. It's really going to be dependent on the GM but I would give it about a 70% at this point that Parker goes first just so a team can be safe however if Embiid continues this upward trend he will blow out almost any top prospect as teams are absolutely dying to have a dominant big man that can actually score in the post.

[The_Hater]

Depends on what you mean by "much better prospect" - Wiggins still has a much higher ceiling, but Parker is currently more polished offensively and in leadership/taking charge.

This is what's fun about seeing how players mature.

Absolutely but I'm not even sure the bolded part is true. Along with the obvious skill level Parker appears to have better instincts and a better feel than Wiggins. Athletic ability is important but those parts of a players ceiling are often ignored. All the truly great players have high bball IQ's IMO.

[TheLastTimeLord]

I wonder if to some degree, Wiggins is just biding his time until March Madness. He might have people in his ear to tell him to take it easy until then, to not risk injury etc - but hard to say. We can only go on what we see on the court.

Yup, I'd put the o/u on 40 point games for Wiggins during MM on 4.5. Take the over!!!!!

[fredericklove]

I've watched him play in Golden State. He's improved his handle, yes, but he's still not overly productive. Average efficiency (53.3 TS%) on low-usage, an 11.7 PER, 0.083 WS/48, 103 ORtg, 105 DRtg and a -14.8 (!) NET +/- don't exactly scream future all-star.

He's still young, and he's a solid defender (which he has been dating back to his time at UNC), but I think you need to temper expectations. He's not even playing at the level (offensively) that DeMar was as a rookie/second-year pro.

His currency efficiency is low but you do have to factor in his role as the 4th option behind Curry (18.5 FGA), Thompson (16 FGA) and Lee (13.9 FGA), all of their FGAs are significantly higher than Barnes, the situation he's in and the current stat he poses under that circumstance, that's not a fair judgement to say he won't be future all star, whether he can become one or not in the future is depended on what role" he will be used, that's the key here, a wing player as 4th option is never going to channel all star numbers, but he's already showing advanced skills to prove he belongs in the league, contrary to a lot of people that say he's a bust or he won't be able to score at the NBA level, all of these claims are already proven wrong, while your claim of him that he just hasn't been that good based on statistically, to repeat again, he's 4th option on a loaded team. Comparing to Demar in retrospect, he's actually more advanced than Demar was in rookie/second year pro, even Demar had the 2nd option opportunity in his 2nd year (14.1 FGA) which Barnes (10.8 FGA) doesn't share that privilege.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I didn't even think AW had that bad a game today. A couple of calls here and there and he'd have his average point total and better efficiency. His defense was strong.

Embiid didn't have much of a challenge with that undersized turkey. His FT shooting is now no longer an issue. I totally expect him to be nailing 18 footers by the end of the year.

[Ragnar0k]

Depends on what you mean by "much better prospect" - Wiggins still has a much higher ceiling, but Parker is currently more polished offensively and in leadership/taking charge.

This is what's fun about seeing how players mature.

Absolutely but I'm not even sure the bolded part is true. Along with the obvious skill level Parker appears to have better instincts and a better feel than Wiggins. Athletic ability is important but those parts of a players ceiling are often ignored. All the truly great players have high bball IQ's IMO.

Yup, I agree with that too. At the current juncture it does appear that Parker has a better IQ - offensively. And he probably always will.

It's Parkers defensive liabilities that will hold him back in his career - maybe not from going #1 overall, because he will be able to fill seats due to his offensive prowess.

[mathgeek]

It was a bad game considering the expectations that are put on him. But there is still a long season to go, the player that plays the best at the end of the season and march madness will more than likely get drafted first. I can definitely see Wiggins showing up during march madness and in the Big 12 playoffs because he usually doesn't disappoint in high pressure games.

[Randle McMurphy]

Tank for Embiid.

[Ragnar0k]

I wonder if to some degree, Wiggins is just biding his time until March Madness. He might have people in his ear to tell him to take it easy until then, to not risk injury etc - but hard to say. We can only go on what we see on the court.

Yup, I'd put the o/u on 40 point games for Wiggins during MM on 4.5. Take the over!!!!!

Hopefully!

As far as injuries go - a player is MUCH more likely to injure himself on an offensive play than on a defensive play (I don't have any stats whatsoever to back this up). So who knows.

As decent, or very average, as Wiggins offense has been - it's his defense that's keeping him in the top 5.

[The_Hater]

Yup, I agree with that too. At the current juncture it does appear that Parker has a better IQ - offensively.

It's Parkers defensive liabilities that will hold him back in his career - maybe not from going #1 overall, because he will be able to fill seats due to his offensive prowess.

At times I have to step back and remember that these are still 18 year olds, tons of superstars didn't look like future superstars at age 18. Lots of room to grow. Lots of time for the lightbulb to turn on. If anyone told me that the Tracy McGrady that I watched as a Raptor rookie would one day score 30 ppg and be among the top 3-4 players in the league I would have told them they were on crack.

[Randle McMurphy]

Wiggins barely tried today except for like a 2-3 minute stretch. Wouldn't take too much from this game for him.

[Randle McMurphy]

Embiid is unbelievable

Sent from my Nexus S using RealGM Forums mobile app

What did I tell you? Incredible prospect. Going to be a special player.

[Ragnar0k]

Yup, I agree with that too. At the current juncture it does appear that Parker has a better IQ - offensively.

It's Parkers defensive liabilities that will hold him back in his career - maybe not from going #1 overall, because he will be able to fill seats due to his offensive prowess.

At times I have to step back and remember that these are still 18 year olds, tons of superstars didn't look like future superstars at age 18. Lots of room to grow. Lots of time for the lightbulb to turn on. If anyone told me that the Tracy McGrady that I watched as a Raptor rookie would one day score 30 ppg and be among the top 3-4 players in the league I would have told them they were on crack.

Exactly.

Also why I referenced Butch Carter some pages back - I wonder if TMac would have become the same player if it wasn't for him.

[Ragnar0k]

Wiggins barely tried today except for like a 2-3 minute stretch. Wouldn't take too much from this game for him.

Well, other than he didn't try - which is a little bit of a concern, especially if it's a known issue with him to be too passive.