Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!!

[WuTang_CMB]

Read on Twitter

[Raps in 4]

Read on Twitter

Using analytics to evaluate prospects is silly. I 100% support using analytics to evaluate players at the NBA level (it's the only way to objectively compare players), but the whole point of prospects is that they have potential to become good players, not that they are good players already. With that said, I don't see any red flags in Cade's college stats as is. I don't know where the criticism is coming from.

Cade is going to become an analytics darling in the NBA very quickly.

[FluLikeSymptoms]

I’ve been thinking bigger D-Lo. There was a guy on Chad’s pod today that ripped Cade pretty hard, compared him to OJ Mayo.

[phanman]

Valid but I just dont seethem taking Mobley with Allen there. If there weren't good enough wings, I'd lean mobley. I just have a funny feeling they take Kuminga or Barnes here. If this was OKC, it would be a lock to take Mobley but its the Cavs who traditional fk up every draft.

If you think Mobley as good as you think, why would the cavs pass on him because they have Allen?

Reasons I've stated over and over for the last 300 pages and again just now. Mobley is a 5. Allen is a 5. Teams more often than not will draft on need in the top 5.

You have to consider that Allen is also a RFA and is looking for a big payday. The cost/year control they would have with Mobley is much more desirable for a rebuilding franchise. With the Cavs current position in the league, you take BPA regardless of current roster construction because so much is in the air for that franchise with what they do with Love and if they resign Sexton/Allen.

Honestly if they are planning to reach that low, they're better off trading down.

[Bruin]

I’ve been thinking bigger D-Lo. There was a guy on Chad’s pod today that ripped Cade pretty hard, compared him to OJ Mayo.

That’s an odd comp. He looks nothing like OJ Mayo to me

[KL78192020]

Valid but I just dont seethem taking Mobley with Allen there. If there weren't good enough wings, I'd lean mobley. I just have a funny feeling they take Kuminga or Barnes here. If this was OKC, it would be a lock to take Mobley but its the Cavs who traditional fk up every draft.

Wrong. They picked Garland when they had Sexton already in the same spot. They won't have any problem taking Mobley regardless of having Allen.

Wrong.

Garland is a SG, not a playmaker. And having 2 guards on your team makes sense compared to drafting another starting 5 when you already have Allen.

Youre clueless they both played PG in college. Garland averages more assist that Sexton regardless what they do now they are both point guards and Cavs had no problem drafting 2 PGs.

[Dalek]

Read on Twitter

If we don’t get Mobley I’d love Noel. Much better option than Baynes

Noel/Birch is a solid enough big man rotation

That would honestly be terrible spacing. You can't close games with either on the floor especially in the playoffs. My preference is Noel, but Birch seems like he fit the team well and will be cheaper. Noel literally anchored the Knicks D last year so I could see why we could be kicking tires.

Honestly, in both situations you would be signing a C that is not really a playoff starting C, unless you have all-world scorers around him and a guy who can throw lobs and use them effectively in pick and roll. I am not sure if FVV, Suggs, and Pascal would be a good fit around either Noel or Birch. Teams are just going to ignore them on offense and neither guy is a high level rebounder.

What you don't want to do is to overspend on a guy you might not be playing in important situations.

[WuTang_CMB]

Wrong. They picked Garland when they had Sexton already in the same spot. They won't have any problem taking Mobley regardless of having Allen.

Wrong.

Garland is a SG, not a playmaker. And having 2 guards on your team makes sense compared to drafting another starting 5 when you already have Allen.

Youre clueless they both played PG in college. Garland averages more assist that Sexton regardless what they do now they are both point guards and Cavs had no problem drafting 2 PGs.

No.. you're lost. He averaged 2 assists and was more of a scorer in college, thus not a playmaker - in a very small sample size. And I as i said, dual guard play is common now, no one in the nba is starting 2 x 7'0 centres. IMO, and you can disagree with me all you want, I just dont see how CLE would draft Mobley when they're reportedly ready to re up Allen. Doesnt work.

[Bruin]

Read on Twitter

If we don’t get Mobley I’d love Noel. Much better option than Baynes

Noel/Birch is a solid enough big man rotation

That would honestly be terrible spacing. You can't close games with either on the floor especially in the playoffs. My preference is Noel, but Birch seems like he fit the team well and will be cheaper. Noel literally anchored the Knicks D last year so I could see why we could be kicking tires.

Honestly, in both situations you would be signing a C that is not really a playoff starting C, unless you have all-world scorers around him and a guy who can throw lobs and use them effectively in pick and roll. I am not sure if FVV, Suggs, and Pascal would be a good fit around either Noel or Birch. Teams are just going to ignore them on offense and neither guy is a high level rebounder.

What you don't want to do is to overspend on a guy you might not be playing in important situations.

What’s the alternative? The only one is Olynyk

Noel is an elite rim protector and solid enough rebounder (9.5 per 36 minutes). He’s not much of a factor offensively other than finishing at the rim but that alone is better than Baynes

[planetmars]

Wrong.

Garland is a SG, not a playmaker. And having 2 guards on your team makes sense compared to drafting another starting 5 when you already have Allen.

How do you explain Okoro then? If he's a SF, then why go after Kuminga then?

Because they can play Kuminga or Barnes at the 3/4. And with the rumours of moving Sexton now, it makes it easier for them to go after kuminga or barnes

But they also have Nance Jr and Osman who can both play the 3/4 as well. If they draft for fit, they can really go anywhere, since they have guys at each spot, and they can just platoon one of them.

The rumours of them moving Sexton makes it feel like they are wanting a guard not another wing IMO.

[KL78192020]

Wrong.

Garland is a SG, not a playmaker. And having 2 guards on your team makes sense compared to drafting another starting 5 when you already have Allen.

Youre clueless they both played PG in college. Garland averages more assist that Sexton regardless what they do now they are both point guards and Cavs had no problem drafting 2 PGs.

No.. you're lost. He averaged 2 assists and was more of a scorer in college, thus not a playmaker - in a very small sample size. And I as i said, dual guard play is common now, no one in the nba is starting 2 x 7'0 centres. IMO, and you can disagree with me all you want, I just dont see how CLE would draft Mobley when they're reportedly ready to re up Allen. Doesnt work.

it does't matter, they can trade allen if they want later plus hes a RFA they might not even want to pay him big bucks. I'll bet you a $1000 bucks they draft Mobley if hes there over Barnes/Kumingba. There is no way the pass on Mobley for lesser playres.

[WuTang_CMB]

Youre clueless they both played PG in college. Garland averages more assist that Sexton regardless what they do now they are both point guards and Cavs had no problem drafting 2 PGs.

No.. you're lost. He averaged 2 assists and was more of a scorer in college, thus not a playmaker - in a very small sample size. And I as i said, dual guard play is common now, no one in the nba is starting 2 x 7'0 centres. IMO, and you can disagree with me all you want, I just dont see how CLE would draft Mobley when they're reportedly ready to re up Allen. Doesnt work.

it does't matter, they can trade allen if they want later plus hes a RFA they might not even want to pay him big bucks. I'll bet you a $1000 bucks they draft Mobley if hes there over Barnes/Kumingba. There is no way the pass on Mobley for lesser playres.

LOL Sure it matters, they've already reported they are going to re-up him... Cle is stuck. Their best move is move down with ORL and not draft another 5 or feel the pressure and draft their franchise wing.

Trading players like Sexton and now Allen after tanking is risky and they clearly dont know what theyre doing with trades with not even getting assets for drummond. Cleveland is a mess

[DG88]

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=AdamSpinella

[Dalek]

If we don’t get Mobley I’d love Noel. Much better option than Baynes

Noel/Birch is a solid enough big man rotation

That would honestly be terrible spacing. You can't close games with either on the floor especially in the playoffs. My preference is Noel, but Birch seems like he fit the team well and will be cheaper. Noel literally anchored the Knicks D last year so I could see why we could be kicking tires.

Honestly, in both situations you would be signing a C that is not really a playoff starting C, unless you have all-world scorers around him and a guy who can throw lobs and use them effectively in pick and roll. I am not sure if FVV, Suggs, and Pascal would be a good fit around either Noel or Birch. Teams are just going to ignore them on offense and neither guy is a high level rebounder.

What you don't want to do is to overspend on a guy you might not be playing in important situations.

What’s the alternative? The only one is Olynyk

Noel is an elite rim protector and solid enough rebounder (9.5 per 36 minutes). He’s not much of a factor offensively other than finishing at the rim but that alone is better than Baynes

Noel is fine to sign for the same reasons you said, but we really need to improve at PG to actually make him useful.

John Collins is the guy I would prefer. Not a trad C, but offers way more offensive upside, youth and IT factor.

If we don't get a true starting C, I'd rather just draft and develop guys. I tend to think mid-level spends are good for already great teams, not ones with holes like Toronto has.

This is a flawed team that needs to either luck into signing or trading for a star, or it should just build through the draft while managing the cap space well for the right max signing.

[BoyzNTheHood]

I’ve been thinking bigger D-Lo. There was a guy on Chad’s pod today that ripped Cade pretty hard, compared him to OJ Mayo.

Who's the guy? Let's look up his history.

[Bruin]

That would honestly be terrible spacing. You can't close games with either on the floor especially in the playoffs. My preference is Noel, but Birch seems like he fit the team well and will be cheaper. Noel literally anchored the Knicks D last year so I could see why we could be kicking tires.

Honestly, in both situations you would be signing a C that is not really a playoff starting C, unless you have all-world scorers around him and a guy who can throw lobs and use them effectively in pick and roll. I am not sure if FVV, Suggs, and Pascal would be a good fit around either Noel or Birch. Teams are just going to ignore them on offense and neither guy is a high level rebounder.

What you don't want to do is to overspend on a guy you might not be playing in important situations.

What’s the alternative? The only one is Olynyk

Noel is an elite rim protector and solid enough rebounder (9.5 per 36 minutes). He’s not much of a factor offensively other than finishing at the rim but that alone is better than Baynes

Noel is fine to sign for the same reasons you said, but we really need to improve at PG to actually make him useful.

John Collins is the guy I would prefer. Not a trad C, but offers way more offensive upside, youth and IT factor.

If we don't get a true starting C, I'd rather just draft and develop guys. I tend to think mid-level spends are good for already great teams, not ones with holes like Toronto has.

This is a flawed team that needs to either luck into signing or trading for a star, or it should just build through the draft while managing the cap space well for the right max signing.

I like Collins but it’s an unrealistic target since I expect Atlanta to match anything

If the goal is to get someone more than just a role player then I’d like Turner over anyone else

[C_Money]

Watch on YouTube

Biggest steal of the draft right here

[Spida888]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Anyone have a subscription to get his board?

1. Cade
2. Mobley
3. Barnes
4. Sengun
5. Green
6. Suggs
7. Wagner
8. Kuminga
9. Jalen Johnson
10. Giddey


2. Evan Mobley, PF/C, USC, Freshman

Spoiler:

Even when the game is going small, Mobley has an argument to be the top pick. His basic premise is that he can do most of the things perimeter guys can, but he’s the size of a center. You can make an argument that Mobley is better at self-created shots inside the 3-point line than Cunningham is, and is also better at defending the perimeter. We call Mobley a “big” and Cunningham a “wing,” but other than Cunningham’s shooting, Mobley is better at most of the wing stuff, too.

In 2021, however, a big has to be pretty darned good to make a case for himself as being more valuable than a wing with size. Surely there are exceptions — Nikola Jokic won the MVP award, and Joel Embiid was the East’s most dominant player this season — but the bar is higher for bigs.

Mobley is fortunately the right kind of big because it is going to be very hard to play him off the court in the playoffs. His skinny frame, skill set and defensive mobility almost immediately conjure images of Chris Bosh. In particular, some of his defensive clips had me cackling, as guards embarrassed themselves trying to take him off the bounce. He’s great at keeping his feet moving and using his length to contest shots when picking up guards in switches.

That said, you wish Mobley was better at some of the things that actually involve being big. He’s not notably good at posting up, owing in part to his very slender frame. His rebound rate was unimpressive, and he gets pushed around near the basket, where his thin frame becomes a liability. Statistically, he’s a good-but-not-great shot blocker, although that partly results from how often he had to defend on the perimeter. His motor doesn’t always run super hot, either.

Offensively, Mobley hints at upside in all kinds of directions but doesn’t have one overwhelming skill at the moment. As noted above, he’s pretty good when he can attack off the bounce, even against guards. He can put the ball on the floor, score off the dribble as a driver from the free-throw area and finish near the cup. He shows rudiments of stretch ability, making 12 3-pointers on the season and shooting 69.4 percent from the line, and his form suggests he can at least become a break-even proposition as a shooter.

Mobley has All-Star upside, with shades of Bosh and Pau Gasol in his game, but he has work ahead of him to get there.

6. Jalen Suggs, PG, Gonzaga, Freshman

Spoiler:

Suggs reminds me of Jason Kidd in a lot of ways, although the passing is more solid than spectacular. He has pretty good size for a point guard and great end-to-end speed, plus he has absolutely tremendous anticipation at the defensive end. Suggs reads the game almost like a defensive back, closing on the ball with speed to intercept passes. His feet are only average on the ball, and he can get caught reaching, but overall, he projects as a tough defender.

Offensively, his pace in transition is an obvious benefit that helps grease the way to easy baskets, but his half-court game remains a work in progress. Suggs shot 33.7 percent from 3 and 75.4 percent from the line, so teams will dare him to prove he can knock down shots consistently. The good news is that Suggs has a quick release that he’s comfortable getting off the dribble, and he shows pretty good footwork getting into pull-ups in the painted area on pivots and up-and-unders. He doesn’t need to improve his percentages that much to turn the shooting from a liability to a strength.

Bigger picture, the upside as an elite offensive player is maybe a bit limited by the shooting and the lack of elite pick-and-roll craft. That’s why Suggs is a bit lower on my board than some others. After my top five prospects, however, Suggs is the obvious pick due to his long-term starter potential and fairly high floor for such a young player.

Wtf, if we reached for Sengun at #4 when Green/Suggs are on the board, that would be madness.

[Sandman88]

Getting a weird feeling we might take Scottie Barnes. Seems like a Masai pick. Hope I’m wrong

[DatHomieYouHaTe]

I’ve been thinking bigger D-Lo. There was a guy on Chad’s pod today that ripped Cade pretty hard, compared him to OJ Mayo.

Who's the guy? Let's look up his history.

https://deanondraft.com/

he said he had wiggins 7th the year he got drafted..

his mock is

1 Mobley
2 Barnes
3 Suggs
4 Cade