Haynes: Damian Lillard Requests Trade

[2019nbachamps]

Boom.

This is nonsense and Lillard is full of crap.

He had a chance to entertain free agency but took the super max in on a team that:

-was not winning
-did not have a path to win
-hired an inexperienced head coach
-traded their 2nd best player McCollum for nothing
-traded GTJ for Norm and then traded Norm for nothing (as an example of other bad trades they’ve made)

As Woj has reported, top players are now opting into extensions and max deals knowing they have the power to force their way out after. KD, Irving, Simmons, Harden, Beal, etc etc.

Harden is moaning now about Philly not trading him for pennies on the dollar after he discovered there was no appetite for any team to pay him $36m+ a season in free agency.

No one should feel bad for Lillard. Remember this is the same guy who after signing the extension said he was ok with not winning a ring and pundits don’t respect the process anymore. He told us he wouldn’t ring chase. He wasn’t exactly resigning with a team 1-2 players away from contending. If he actually thought they could turn things around then he has no one to blame but himself.

Whoa whoa whoa, hold the mayo there. That is not quite what happened and Dame was never close to FA to explore anything; if you want to bash Dame, that's cool but I think your dates are out of alignment.

- 18/19 - Portland has a great year but gets knocked out of the WCF
- Summer of 2019, Olshey offers Dame a 4 year supermax contract extension that kicks in for the 21/22 season and locking Dame up till 2025.
- 19/20 season - Portland gets bounce in the 1st round
- 20/21 season - Portland gets bounce in the 1st round, Billups hired in June, 2021
- 21/22 season - Dames extension that was signed in 2019 kicks in. Olshey gets fired in December 2021 due to reports of creating a toxic workplace environment and Cronin takes over and starts a retool/rebuild
- February 2022 - on the 4th, Powell/Covi traded to Clippers, on the 8th CJ/Nance traded to NOP and Zeller was waived, on the 9th NAW/Juancho redirected from CJ trade to Utah, Feb 10th Dame shut down, Feb 16th DSJ tears his UCL and was waived on Feb 21st
- June 2022 - Portland drafts Sharpe
- July 2022 - Cronin comes to Dame and offers a 2 year extension on his existing deal, turning his remaining 3 years into into a 5 year max. Cronin, Billups and Dame hold presser about the 2 year extension and how the team was committed to building around Dame and being competitive
- 22/23 season - Portland trades Hart in February, Dame sits again
- Summer of 2023 - Portland lucks out and gets the #3 pick. Trade ideas run rampant, Dame speaks about trading the #3 pick to upgrade the team. Speaks about wanting to stay and being competitive in Portland.
- June 22, 2023 - Portland drafts Scoot, holds meeting with Dame. Afterwards, Cronin comes out and states that they won't be trading Scoot or their youth.
- July 2, 2023 - Lillard asks to be traded.
- Both sides making a PR mess of it but nothing acrimonious being said from either side.

I don't feel bad for Dame at all, but I certainly do understand why he's wanting to move on given where both parties are at.

Thank you for the summary.

You highlight the team was a borderline playoff team throughout. I believe they were a #3 seed once, and got to one WCF. But in recent years they've been a low seed or missed the playoffs. It doesn't matter what the team says. The Hornets under MJ also said they wanted to build a winner. It seems like it was clear to everyone but Dame the Trail Blazers did not have a path to competitiveness. After he signed the extension he went on an excuse tour about winning titles not being that important. Sports media argued it seemed like he cared about money and comfort over winning.

Dame is trying to have his cake and eat it too. He took a ton of money from the Trail Blazers when they were bad and is now forcing his way out under the guise of wanting to win. If he wanted to win he would've explored free agency. He chose not to since he couldn't get supermax money that way.

[docholliday99]

You highlight the team was a borderline playoff team throughout. I believe they were a #3 seed once, and got to one WCF. But in recent years they've been a low seed or missed the playoffs. It doesn't matter what the team says. The Hornets under MJ also said they wanted to build a winner. It seems like it was clear to everyone but Dame the Trail Blazers did not have a path to competitiveness. After he signed the extension he went on an excuse tour about winning titles not being that important. Sports media argued it seemed like he cared about money and comfort over winning.

2019 Portland was the #3 seed and went to the WCF and then gave Dame the 4 year extension, but that extension didn't kick in till 2021/22. Dame's 29 and will be 34 when that new contact is done - seems like the right thing for Dame and the franchise to do at that time.

The team is then bounced in the first round for 2 years and then clearly started a rebuild by all the moves in 2022, including giving Dame another 2 years, publicly stating they want to rebuild around Dame and sitting Dame that season and last season for draft positioning.

During that time, Dame downplayed his need to win it all but he did maintain his desire for the team to be competitive again, as the team was clearly tanking. Dame's words seemed to support what the team was doing. During this time, Dame is having his best season - at 32-33yo, he's clearly still competitive. Everyone seems to be doing their part for a rebuild the last 2 years.

Dame is now 33, and on draft night, with Scoot available at #3, the team adjusted their direction by committing to their youth and publicly stating so (as is their right) - but that change from the team is when the timelines between the team and Dame completely separated. Now Dame wants to move on (as is his right), as Dame doesn't want to end his career with being on a team that won't be competitive; if Portland would have continued to try to build around Dame and compete in the playoffs, this whole situation wouldn't have happened.

So now, I have a question for you, if it doesn't matter what the team says, why does it matter what Dame says? Logic would suggest that if you hold Dame to his words, shouldn't you hold the team to theirs? Everything is just PR maneuvering and the media and us fans are reading and assuming intent, but I really think there was nothing under-handed by either Dame or the team; they're just at different spots now and both are trying to do what's best for themselves - which is why neither are saying anything negative about the other, it's us and the media going crazy (which is great for the league as we all stay invested in this entertainment business).

[deeps6x]

You highlight the team was a borderline playoff team throughout. I believe they were a #3 seed once, and got to one WCF. But in recent years they've been a low seed or missed the playoffs. It doesn't matter what the team says. The Hornets under MJ also said they wanted to build a winner. It seems like it was clear to everyone but Dame the Trail Blazers did not have a path to competitiveness. After he signed the extension he went on an excuse tour about winning titles not being that important. Sports media argued it seemed like he cared about money and comfort over winning.

2019 Portland was the #3 seed and went to the WCF and then gave Dame the 4 year extension, but that extension didn't kick in till 2021/22. Dame's 29 and will be 34 when that new contact is done - seems like the right thing for Dame and the franchise to do at that time.

The team is then bounced in the first round for 2 years and then clearly started a rebuild by all the moves in 2022, including giving Dame another 2 years, publicly stating they want to rebuild around Dame and sitting Dame that season and last season for draft positioning.

During that time, Dame downplayed his need to win it all but he did maintain his desire for the team to be competitive again, as the team was clearly tanking. Dame's words seemed to support what the team was doing. During this time, Dame is having his best season - at 32-33yo, he's clearly still competitive. Everyone seems to be doing their part for a rebuild the last 2 years.

Dame is now 33, and on draft night, with Scoot available at #3, the team adjusted their direction by committing to their youth and publicly stating so (as is their right) - but that change from the team is when the timelines between the team and Dame completely separated. Now Dame wants to move on (as is his right), as Dame doesn't want to end his career with being on a team that won't be competitive; if Portland would have continued to try to build around Dame and compete in the playoffs, this whole situation wouldn't have happened.

So now, I have a question for you, if it doesn't matter what the team says, why does it matter what Dame says? Logic would suggest that if you hold Dame to his words, shouldn't you hold the team to theirs? Everything is just PR maneuvering and the media and us fans are reading and assuming intent, but I really think there was nothing under-handed by either Dame or the team; they're just at different spots now and both are trying to do what's best for themselves - which is why neither are saying anything negative about the other, it's us and the media going crazy (which is great for the league as we all stay invested in this entertainment business).

"Now Dame wants to move on (as is his right)"

Well, no, it's only his right to move on when he is a free agent. Right now, he is contractually obligated to play for Portland to the best of his abilities until the end of the 25/26 season - if he declines his player option that summer.

[docholliday99]

You highlight the team was a borderline playoff team throughout. I believe they were a #3 seed once, and got to one WCF. But in recent years they've been a low seed or missed the playoffs. It doesn't matter what the team says. The Hornets under MJ also said they wanted to build a winner. It seems like it was clear to everyone but Dame the Trail Blazers did not have a path to competitiveness. After he signed the extension he went on an excuse tour about winning titles not being that important. Sports media argued it seemed like he cared about money and comfort over winning.

2019 Portland was the #3 seed and went to the WCF and then gave Dame the 4 year extension, but that extension didn't kick in till 2021/22. Dame's 29 and will be 34 when that new contact is done - seems like the right thing for Dame and the franchise to do at that time.

The team is then bounced in the first round for 2 years and then clearly started a rebuild by all the moves in 2022, including giving Dame another 2 years, publicly stating they want to rebuild around Dame and sitting Dame that season and last season for draft positioning.

During that time, Dame downplayed his need to win it all but he did maintain his desire for the team to be competitive again, as the team was clearly tanking. Dame's words seemed to support what the team was doing. During this time, Dame is having his best season - at 32-33yo, he's clearly still competitive. Everyone seems to be doing their part for a rebuild the last 2 years.

Dame is now 33, and on draft night, with Scoot available at #3, the team adjusted their direction by committing to their youth and publicly stating so (as is their right) - but that change from the team is when the timelines between the team and Dame completely separated. Now Dame wants to move on (as is his right), as Dame doesn't want to end his career with being on a team that won't be competitive; if Portland would have continued to try to build around Dame and compete in the playoffs, this whole situation wouldn't have happened.

So now, I have a question for you, if it doesn't matter what the team says, why does it matter what Dame says? Logic would suggest that if you hold Dame to his words, shouldn't you hold the team to theirs? Everything is just PR maneuvering and the media and us fans are reading and assuming intent, but I really think there was nothing under-handed by either Dame or the team; they're just at different spots now and both are trying to do what's best for themselves - which is why neither are saying anything negative about the other, it's us and the media going crazy (which is great for the league as we all stay invested in this entertainment business).

"Now Dame wants to move on (as is his right)"

Well, no, it's only his right to move on when he is a free agent. Right now, he is contractually obligated to play for Portland to the best of his abilities until the end of the 25/26 season - if he declines his player option that summer.

Of course he's contractually obligated to play and he said he would play for Portland, but that doesn't change that he wants to leave and it's within his CBA rights to ask to leave and use anything and everything that doesn't break the CBA rules to make that happen. Provisions are put in place in the CBA for players with term, not just FA's. Teams can trade players when they choose without player consult and players can ask to be traded. Portland gave that 2 year extension as everyone, from Cronin on down, was stating that they were building around Dame for the future, no other reason to give Dame those 2 years if they weren't going too. Dame would have been much easier to trade without that extension if they weren't serious about it.

Portland changed they mind and so has Dame, both are entitled to do what they can for themselves.

[Pointgod]

DSJ path

DSJ had trex arms and knee problems. Scoot is an absolute unit and fluid. The biggest thing for him will be to improve his shooting

You mean when he tore his acl in high school and he had no swelling or soreness, and when the doctors did surgery, they found he had an extra acl? Weird case; back playing within 2 months and supposedly increase his vertical by 8"ins. Played his senior season, was a 5star and his knees were good. As for his wingspan, it's not the dreaded negative like Herro, so I don't see any problems there with a w/s of 6'3".

Outside of wingspan, I'd say DSJ and Scoot were quite similar coming in the league, both 6'2", both very explosive (DSJ 48" vert, Scoot 46" vert), both physically strong, both about 200lbs (DSJ 205, Scoot 195), both are really good defenders (though I give that edge to DSJ but potential to Scoot with his w/s) and both have similar styles and stats.

Stats coming into the league...
DSJ - 32 games ACC, 18.1/4.6/6.2 on 45.5/35.9/71.5 splits - efg .520, 1.9 spg, 23 per, ws 4
Scoot - 19 games GL, 17.6/5.1/6.6 on 42.9/27.5/76.4 splits, efg .455, 1.1 spg

So for myself, they really are quite similar coming in, even the hype.

As for DSJ, I liked him, felt he got a bit full of himself when in Dallas but the year after they drafted him, they drafted Luka, so DSJ was dealt to a dysfunctional NY team for Porzi in 2019 but NY really wasn't committed to him; DSJ resurged in Detroit, then tore his ucl in his shooting arm in Portland. Has been a terrible long range shooter since, but his on ball defense and team defense is really stellar - basically the reason he's still in the NBA. Kinda odd to think he's still 25y.o.

No doubt that that there are similarities between Scoot and Smith Jr, but Scoot is just on another level as a prospect. I don’t think it makes sense to compare G-league stats to the NCAA because there are some differences. Because you can make an argument that either one is an environment that’s more similar to the NBA.

Scoot is just a better and more complete prospect to Smith. The 6’9 wing span makes a huge difference finishing amongst the trees and on the defensive end as well being able to play bigger than he is. DSJ had a really good rookie season but he couldn’t adjust to playing with Luka and then he’s had a lot of injuries up to this season.

Just take a look at the scouting profiles. There’s a reason that Scoot was in the mix for the #1 pick if it wasn’t for the generational prospect Wemby also being in the draft. Scoot is already coming in with elite athleticism, a pure point guard, mature floor general and the biggest knock was his shooting while DSJ was an elite athletic, shoot first pg that had to develop as a passer, had maturity issues and questionable defensive intensity. He was considered a lock for top 10 but no one was talking about him going first overall when all was said and done.

https://www.si.com/nba/draft/prospect-profiles/nba-draft-scouting-report-g-league-ignites-scoot-henderson
https://theboxandone.substack.com/p/scoot-henderson-2023-nba-draft-scouting
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Dennis-Smith-76448/
https://www.si.com/nba/2017/06/22/dennis-smith-jr-nba-draft-2017-scouting-report-analysis

[docholliday99]

DSJ had trex arms and knee problems. Scoot is an absolute unit and fluid. The biggest thing for him will be to improve his shooting

You mean when he tore his acl in high school and he had no swelling or soreness, and when the doctors did surgery, they found he had an extra acl? Weird case; back playing within 2 months and supposedly increase his vertical by 8"ins. Played his senior season, was a 5star and his knees were good. As for his wingspan, it's not the dreaded negative like Herro, so I don't see any problems there with a w/s of 6'3".

Outside of wingspan, I'd say DSJ and Scoot were quite similar coming in the league, both 6'2", both very explosive (DSJ 48" vert, Scoot 46" vert), both physically strong, both about 200lbs (DSJ 205, Scoot 195), both are really good defenders (though I give that edge to DSJ but potential to Scoot with his w/s) and both have similar styles and stats.

Stats coming into the league...
DSJ - 32 games ACC, 18.1/4.6/6.2 on 45.5/35.9/71.5 splits - efg .520, 1.9 spg, 23 per, ws 4
Scoot - 19 games GL, 17.6/5.1/6.6 on 42.9/27.5/76.4 splits, efg .455, 1.1 spg

So for myself, they really are quite similar coming in, even the hype.

As for DSJ, I liked him, felt he got a bit full of himself when in Dallas but the year after they drafted him, they drafted Luka, so DSJ was dealt to a dysfunctional NY team for Porzi in 2019 but NY really wasn't committed to him; DSJ resurged in Detroit, then tore his ucl in his shooting arm in Portland. Has been a terrible long range shooter since, but his on ball defense and team defense is really stellar - basically the reason he's still in the NBA. Kinda odd to think he's still 25y.o.

No doubt that that there are similarities between Scoot and Smith Jr, but Scoot is just on another level as a prospect. I don’t think it makes sense to compare G-league stats to the NCAA because there are some differences. Because you can make an argument that either one is an environment that’s more similar to the NBA.

Scoot is just a better and more complete prospect to Smith. The 6’9 wing span makes a huge difference finishing amongst the trees and on the defensive end as well being able to play bigger than he is. DSJ had a really good rookie season but he couldn’t adjust to playing with Luka and then he’s had a lot of injuries up to this season.

Just take a look at the scouting profiles. There’s a reason that Scoot was in the mix for the #1 pick if it wasn’t for the generational prospect Wemby also being in the draft. Scoot is already coming in with elite athleticism, a pure point guard, mature floor general and the biggest knock was his shooting while DSJ was an elite athletic, shoot first pg that had to develop as a passer, had maturity issues and questionable defensive intensity. He was considered a lock for top 10 but no one was talking about him going first overall when all was said and done.

https://www.si.com/nba/draft/prospect-profiles/nba-draft-scouting-report-g-league-ignites-scoot-henderson
https://theboxandone.substack.com/p/scoot-henderson-2023-nba-draft-scouting
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Dennis-Smith-76448/
https://www.si.com/nba/2017/06/22/dennis-smith-jr-nba-draft-2017-scouting-report-analysis

Great post. I don't quite agree about DSJ, draft profiles had him as an unselfish player, a very willing passer, and a team player. Definitely maturity issues has plagued him and certainly played a part in slowing his development in the NBA, and that elbow tear was the only real significant injury - but that's been a doozie. As for Scoot, what you said about DSJ is how I see him. His wingspan will certainly help but I agree, his biggest struggle will be to shoot the long ball, which is going to be a big problem for him in the NBA.

I agree it's difficult comparing Gleague stats and NCAA, it's also difficult to compare drafts from 2017 to 2023 as the game has evolved. We'll see how it goes, he certainly doesn't lack confidence, so maybe he'll get that ROTY award that he said he'll win.

[Tacoma]

2019 Portland was the #3 seed and went to the WCF and then gave Dame the 4 year extension, but that extension didn't kick in till 2021/22. Dame's 29 and will be 34 when that new contact is done - seems like the right thing for Dame and the franchise to do at that time.

The team is then bounced in the first round for 2 years and then clearly started a rebuild by all the moves in 2022, including giving Dame another 2 years, publicly stating they want to rebuild around Dame and sitting Dame that season and last season for draft positioning.

During that time, Dame downplayed his need to win it all but he did maintain his desire for the team to be competitive again, as the team was clearly tanking. Dame's words seemed to support what the team was doing. During this time, Dame is having his best season - at 32-33yo, he's clearly still competitive. Everyone seems to be doing their part for a rebuild the last 2 years.

Dame is now 33, and on draft night, with Scoot available at #3, the team adjusted their direction by committing to their youth and publicly stating so (as is their right) - but that change from the team is when the timelines between the team and Dame completely separated. Now Dame wants to move on (as is his right), as Dame doesn't want to end his career with being on a team that won't be competitive; if Portland would have continued to try to build around Dame and compete in the playoffs, this whole situation wouldn't have happened.

So now, I have a question for you, if it doesn't matter what the team says, why does it matter what Dame says? Logic would suggest that if you hold Dame to his words, shouldn't you hold the team to theirs? Everything is just PR maneuvering and the media and us fans are reading and assuming intent, but I really think there was nothing under-handed by either Dame or the team; they're just at different spots now and both are trying to do what's best for themselves - which is why neither are saying anything negative about the other, it's us and the media going crazy (which is great for the league as we all stay invested in this entertainment business).

"Now Dame wants to move on (as is his right)"

Well, no, it's only his right to move on when he is a free agent. Right now, he is contractually obligated to play for Portland to the best of his abilities until the end of the 25/26 season - if he declines his player option that summer.

Of course he's contractually obligated to play and he said he would play for Portland, but that doesn't change that he wants to leave and it's within his CBA rights to ask to leave and use anything and everything that doesn't break the CBA rules to make that happen. Provisions are put in place in the CBA for players with term, not just FA's. Teams can trade players when they choose without player consult and players can ask to be traded. Portland gave that 2 year extension as everyone, from Cronin on down, was stating that they were building around Dame for the future, no other reason to give Dame those 2 years if they weren't going too. Dame would have been much easier to trade without that extension if they weren't serious about it.

Portland changed they mind and so has Dame, both are entitled to do what they can for themselves.

Not a lawyer but under contract law there may be an out for non-performance of contractual duties if the circumstances have changed, which in this case may be the case if it can be proven that there was a presumption that POR would not rebuild but rather would build around Dame, that is clearly not the case at this point.

So he may not be contractually obligated under the law. However, I'd expect Dame wouldn't go this route since it's a SuperMax that clearly benefits him and if he terminates this contract, he's not going to get paid as much as a FA. At the end of the day, he likely wants to be paid SuperMax money first and foremost. So out of self-interest, he's stuck.

[Pointgod]

Read on Twitter

[JRoy]

Read on Twitter

I’d do it for POR and TOR should keep Dick.

[Tor_Raps]

Read on Twitter

I’d do it for POR and TOR should keep Dick.

So we need to include all that when the competing offer includes only Herro and 2 1sts?

Also, we just signed Schroder so don't think he's even allowed to be traded until Dec/Jan.

Barnes + Boucher + Expirings of Thad + Porter + Flynn is more than a fair trade. Just need Dame to say he'd be OK with the trade before we trade our best young player.

[wegotthabeet]

Read on Twitter

I’d do it for POR and TOR should keep Dick.

So we need to include all that when the competing offer includes only Herro and 2 1sts?

Also, we just signed Schroder so don't think he's even allowed to be traded until Dec/Jan.

Barnes + Boucher + Expirings of Thad + Porter + Flynn is more than a fair trade. Just need Dame to say he'd be OK with the trade before we trade our best young player.

thumbs down from Toronto.

[JRoy]

I’d do it for POR and TOR should keep Dick.

So we need to include all that when the competing offer includes only Herro and 2 1sts?

Also, we just signed Schroder so don't think he's even allowed to be traded until Dec/Jan.

Barnes + Boucher + Expirings of Thad + Porter + Flynn is more than a fair trade. Just need Dame to say he'd be OK with the trade before we trade our best young player.

thumbs down from Toronto.

I wouldn’t either for TOR; too far from contention.

[JRoy]

Read on Twitter

I’d do it for POR and TOR should keep Dick.

So we need to include all that when the competing offer includes only Herro and 2 1sts?

Also, we just signed Schroder so don't think he's even allowed to be traded until Dec/Jan.

Barnes + Boucher + Expirings of Thad + Porter + Flynn is more than a fair trade. Just need Dame to say he'd be OK with the trade before we trade our best young player.

Looks like we are too far apart then. Barnes and scrubs doesn’t pull a top 15 player.

[Tor_Raps]

I’d do it for POR and TOR should keep Dick.

So we need to include all that when the competing offer includes only Herro and 2 1sts?

Also, we just signed Schroder so don't think he's even allowed to be traded until Dec/Jan.

Barnes + Boucher + Expirings of Thad + Porter + Flynn is more than a fair trade. Just need Dame to say he'd be OK with the trade before we trade our best young player.

thumbs down from Toronto.

No issues with that either. To me, that would be the most fair trade but as we all know it's not about what's fair rather than what the best offer is.

If Miami has the best offer with their crap then we can get by with an OG (agreed extension) + Boucher + Thad + picks trade.

Although OG does fit better with a Dame led roster because of his superior shooting/defense. Barnes/Siakam/Poeltl is an awkward fit offensively.

[wegotthabeet]

I’d do it for POR and TOR should keep Dick.

So we need to include all that when the competing offer includes only Herro and 2 1sts?

Also, we just signed Schroder so don't think he's even allowed to be traded until Dec/Jan.

Barnes + Boucher + Expirings of Thad + Porter + Flynn is more than a fair trade. Just need Dame to say he'd be OK with the trade before we trade our best young player.

Looks like we are too far apart then. Barnes and scrubs doesn’t pull a top 15 player.

i think Portland would actually do that given the trade request, but that Toronto shouldn't. if there's a rookie deal player with higher upside than Barnes being made available for Dame then he would have been dealt by now.

[docholliday99]

Read on Twitter

I’d do it for POR and TOR should keep Dick.

So we need to include all that when the competing offer includes only Herro and 2 1sts?

Also, we just signed Schroder so don't think he's even allowed to be traded until Dec/Jan.

Barnes + Boucher + Expirings of Thad + Porter + Flynn is more than a fair trade. Just need Dame to say he'd be OK with the trade before we trade our best young player.

You're right about Schroder - can't be moved till Dc 15.

Why do you think that's what the Heat's offer is? Just curious....last I read there was some chatter of a Heat offer that includes 3-4 future first-round picks, expiring contracts, second-round picks, draft swaps, and a young player (Jaime Jaquez Jr. or Nikola Jovic). That's a lot imo and I'm assuming the Heat are getting picks from trading Herro and some undesirable contract.

I don't see Portland taking your offer though, maybe. I think Barnes is highly valued with Masai and the player to move will be Pascal.

[Tor_Raps]

I’d do it for POR and TOR should keep Dick.

So we need to include all that when the competing offer includes only Herro and 2 1sts?

Also, we just signed Schroder so don't think he's even allowed to be traded until Dec/Jan.

Barnes + Boucher + Expirings of Thad + Porter + Flynn is more than a fair trade. Just need Dame to say he'd be OK with the trade before we trade our best young player.

You're right about Schroder - can't be moved till Dc 15.

Why do you think that's what the Heat's offer is? Just curious....last I read there was some chatter of a Heat offer that includes 3-4 future first-round picks, expiring contracts, second-round picks, draft swaps, and a young player (Jaime Jaquez Jr. or Nikola Jovic). That's a lot imo and I'm assuming the Heat are getting picks from trading Herro.

I don't see Portland taking your offer though, maybe. I think Barnes is highly valued with Masai and the player to move will be Pascal.

The most Miami can trade currently is 2 1st round picks. They can trade a 3rd if they remove restrictions to OKC but let's see it when it happens.

Herro (who they don't want) + Jovic + fillers + 2 1st round picks is the currently offer imo and Raptors can throw multiple offers easily beating that.

Barnes is the best asset being mentioned of any team and not only is he still on his rookie deal, which means they have him got like 6 years or so but Barnes fits with what the Blazers currently have too.

[causal_fan]

Portland mentions Scottie Barnes, I hang up the phone - Scottie Barnes may end up a disappointment but I'm not willing to trade him for a guy on a max contract who may have a 1 or 2 great years left - the raptors are just not good enough to take that risk. A team that currently is a serious contender can make that type of trade to try putting them over the top , not the Raptors.

[docholliday99]

So we need to include all that when the competing offer includes only Herro and 2 1sts?

Also, we just signed Schroder so don't think he's even allowed to be traded until Dec/Jan.

Barnes + Boucher + Expirings of Thad + Porter + Flynn is more than a fair trade. Just need Dame to say he'd be OK with the trade before we trade our best young player.

You're right about Schroder - can't be moved till Dc 15.

Why do you think that's what the Heat's offer is? Just curious....last I read there was some chatter of a Heat offer that includes 3-4 future first-round picks, expiring contracts, second-round picks, draft swaps, and a young player (Jaime Jaquez Jr. or Nikola Jovic). That's a lot imo and I'm assuming the Heat are getting picks from trading Herro.

I don't see Portland taking your offer though, maybe. I think Barnes is highly valued with Masai and the player to move will be Pascal.

The most Miami can trade currently is 2 1st round picks. They can trade a 3rd if they remove restrictions to OKC but let's see it when it happens.

Herro (who they don't want) + Jovic + fillers + 2 1st round picks is the currently offer imo and Raptors can throw multiple offers easily beating that.

Barnes is the best asset being mentioned of any team and not only is he still on his rookie deal, which means they have him got like 6 years or so but Barnes fits with what the Blazers currently have too.

I get the pick thing for the Heat, the play for Miami is to either trade for their pick back from OKC or lift the restrictions and trade Herro for a 2025 pick and a player. Utah is rumored to be open to a trade and I'm not sure what OKC is doing but they have to do something sooner or later - as they have far too many picks coming in atm. Either way, the Heat would then be able to move the 24, 26, 28, 30.

For the record, Barnes isn't being mentioned by anyone except by some Raptor fans. I've only heard of the Heat being interested with maybe Utah and some other team interested in taking Herro. TBH, I can't think of any team out there besides the Heat that fits Dame's timeline that have shown interest.

[JRoy]

So we need to include all that when the competing offer includes only Herro and 2 1sts?

Also, we just signed Schroder so don't think he's even allowed to be traded until Dec/Jan.

Barnes + Boucher + Expirings of Thad + Porter + Flynn is more than a fair trade. Just need Dame to say he'd be OK with the trade before we trade our best young player.

Looks like we are too far apart then. Barnes and scrubs doesn’t pull a top 15 player.

i think Portland would actually do that given the trade request, but that Toronto shouldn't. if there's a rookie deal player with higher upside than Barnes being made available for Dame then he would have been dealt by now.

I’d understand either side saying no.