Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 3

[Dalek]

The difference between Reddick and Morrison is substantial to me. Fredette is stronger and a better ball-handler than both players. I actually see a bit of Deron Williams in him. Remember, DWill was a fat PG coming into the NBA. DWill gets by not on blow by ability, but good strength and craftiness, which Jimmer has. Not syaing he is as good as DWill, but they have similar games and body-types.

If anyone can watch him this weekend, it will give you a good indication of the type of balls this guy has. BYU plays Sand Diego State which absolutely hates him. He destroyed them at home last year, and scored 43 pts this year in Provo. This game promises to be the most-hostile environment he has ever faced. If he still drops 30 pts, people will have to take notice.

[Dr Positivity]

Dropping to 8?

Based on what Barnes has done in college (absolutely nothing), he doesn't even deserve to be a lottery pick.

Well Barnes has proven he can hit 3s and has an NBA body. Doesn't sound like much, but it's not as easy as it sounds to get SFs who can play defense and hit 3s at the same time. We could've used one basically the entire Chris Bosh era. If Barnes projects somewhere between Battier and Deng, teams will use a lotto pick on that.

[Silk Wilkes]

The difference between Reddick and Morrison is substantial to me. Fredette is stronger and a better ball-handler than both players. I actually see a bit of Deron Williams in him. Remember, DWill was a fat PG coming into the NBA. DWill gets by not on blow by ability, but good strength and craftiness, which Jimmer has. Not syaing he is as good as DWill, but they have similar games and body-types.

If anyone can watch him this weekend, it will give you a good indication of the type of balls this guy has. BYU plays Sand Diego State which absolutely hates him. He destroyed them at home last year, and scored 43 pts this year in Provo. This game promises to be the most-hostile environment he has ever faced. If he still drops 30 pts, people will have to take notice.

I know you can't judge a guy based on TV time, but why hasn't he got more pub before this season? It seems a bit fishy to me that he's only this good now. If he was this good wouldn't he have been getting credit like Steph Curry (who was from a small program) before he became a senior? I'm probably nitpicking but we can't afford a bust at this point.

[Indeed]

If we drop as low as 6-10 range in the lottery, I have to say that we draft Jimmer Fredette.

PROS

-best shooter in his class; all NBA PGs will have to guard him from half-court
-gets to the rim (draws a ton of fouls in college)
-NBA defense rules give him an advantage
-plays team ball
-Strength helps to negate lack of athleticism
-Leader for his team (carries a quiet Steve Nash confidence about him)
-High b-ball IQ

CONS

-Won't stop elite PGs (question is who can stop C.Paul, Deron, Rondo, Rose?)
-Shoot-first mentality (his role at BYU encourages this)
-Too much hype about him to live up to expectations (he manages the pressure of having all of Utah and States watch his every game; played well in front of NBA players and GMs)

At worst the Raps would be getting a great bench scoring threat who gives us legit three-point shooting. The best-case scenario is that he can be the right PG to build around because he brings great leadership skills and intensity.

Who I have rated higher Jimmer:
-Irving
-Sullinger
-Barnes
-Knight
-Valanciunas

Other players like Jones, Vesely, Kanter are either bad fits or projects that we shouldn't get into developing. We need NBA ready players for once.

Those players are neither NBA ready. Other than Irving who might only needs 2 years, the others are like 3 - 5 years to improve their defense.

[jigga_man]

Imagine we went through all this BS this year for Jimmer Freakin Fredette. lol.

[Hassassin]

Remember him? Say no to BYU products.

[Reignman]

Barnes is going to make a lot of people in this thread look like fools.

He has a chance to be the best player out of this draft even with his poor start to his freshman year.

I like his skillset and would take him as high as #2 if Irving is off the board.

Irving
Barnes
P Jones

Give me any one of those 3 and I'm happy. T Jones/Kanter/Valuncianus would be great consolation picks if we fall out of the top 3. D Will and Sullinger I'd immediately trade if they were BPA where we're picking.

[Indeed]

If we are outside of the top 4 I don't want the pick. Clv will take Kyrie fa sho? Why not sullinger from out of ohio? Wha are they gonna do with a #1 pick pg and baron D?

I don't know, I think there is little difference between drafting 3rd and 8th.
I would keep it as long as it is withing top 8.

Maybe, I just don't think we can get a starter for us at 8th in this draft. We need help at pg/sf/c

- (pg) kemba & knight aren't starters I don't think.
- (sf) I don't think Barnes/TJ/PJ drop all the way down to 8th.
- (C) I don't like any of the Cs in this draft. If Kanter is there at 8th i'll take him.

I don't see Barnes is a much better player than Kamba, and neither Valanciunas, Williams, Sullinger and T. Jones are starters by default. They all have their weaknesses, but showing some potential to be a starter. Other than P. Jones and Irving, there is no guarantee star players in the top 10.

[wanker]

Barnes is going to make a lot of people in this thread look like fools.

He has a chance to be the best player out of this draft even with his poor start to his freshman year.

I like his skillset and would take him as high as #2 if Irving is off the board.

Irving
Barnes
P Jones

Give me any one of those 3 and I'm happy.

Finally, someone who knows something about basketball.

[Dalek]

My only thing to say on Fredette is this: he has a definable NBA skill (scoring) right off the bat. People know his weakness will be defense and he can learn that and if we have a better system in place we can help to mask it. His shot-making and leadership skills are something rare.

This is a guy who decided prior to his senior year that he will take the next step to make it to the NBA. To increase his toughness in hostile environments he played ball, over the summer, in a US prison. He has his best games on the road now.

Anyone remember how good Mark Price was in NBA Jam? This guy is that good in real-life (jk).

[TheRealDeal]

Dropping to 8?

Based on what Barnes has done in college (absolutely nothing), he doesn't even deserve to be a lottery pick.

Why don't you back this up with some analysis instead of just bashing the guy? Have you seen him play? Don't give me FG% because I have no doubt in his ability to become a lethal shooter in the NBA. He had a tough time getting adjusted to the NCAA on the offensive side of the ball but recently he's picked it up with 18 PPG in his last 8. If you do watch him make sure you aren't just focusing on one side of the ball. His defense and rebounding are what have impressed me most this year. I watched him dominate in H.S. and I've seen shades of that at UNC but he's not asked to the the man on that team.

Carolina is PG dominated and loves to score in the paint with Tyler Zeller. HB has been relegated to a jump shooting role and opposing teams are starting to key on keeping him out of the game. When Barnes is playing well UNC is very difficult to beat but neutralizing him gives you a chance. I know that he has struggled at time this season, but who hasn't? D-Will went 3-11 last night and I don't see anyone complaining. Bosh went 1-18 but it doesn't mean he's a bad player. These guys are 18-19 so it's not guaranteed that they'll be consistently great just yet.

Don't unfairly judge HB based on his crazy hype coming into this season. The hype was justified for what he accomplished on the H.S. level and that shouldn't be forgotten. You don't have to worry about him because one of two things will happen. He'll either prove to the world that he's the same pre-season 1st team all-American guy in March and get picked top 5 or go back to school and try to do it next year. If he enters and drops to 8 we can't complain.

[ATLTimekeeper]

He's got his fans, that's for sure. Something's not quite right in the head. He's not lazy, we know that. But, he's failing on some kind of mental-emotional level that's causing him to play like garbage for most of the year. That's the only real concern I have with taking him top 5. That he could very well round into form on our team and then this funk shows up at a bad time.

[JN]

The difference between Reddick and Morrison is substantial to me. Fredette is stronger and a better ball-handler than both players. I actually see a bit of Deron Williams in him. Remember, DWill was a fat PG coming into the NBA. DWill gets by not on blow by ability, but good strength and craftiness, which Jimmer has. Not syaing he is as good as DWill, but they have similar games and body-types.

If anyone can watch him this weekend, it will give you a good indication of the type of balls this guy has. BYU plays Sand Diego State which absolutely hates him. He destroyed them at home last year, and scored 43 pts this year in Provo. This game promises to be the most-hostile environment he has ever faced. If he still drops 30 pts, people will have to take notice.

I know you can't judge a guy based on TV time, but why hasn't he got more pub before this season? It seems a bit fishy to me that he's only this good now. If he was this good wouldn't he have been getting credit like Steph Curry (who was from a small program) before he became a senior? I'm probably nitpicking but we can't afford a bust at this point.

Jimmer Fredette was considered one of the most underrated players in America by those who activaly follow college basketball last year and was an All-American, By the time tournament came around he was well known and he had a mystique entering the tournament,

He is not some one year flash. But everyone assumed he was a four year player so he was going under the draft radar.

[wanker]

Jimmer Fredette was considered one of the most underrated players in America by those who activaly follow college basketball last year and was an All-American, By the time tournament came around he was well known and he had a mystique entering the tournament,

He is not some one year flash. But everyone assumed he was a four year player so he was going under the draft radar.

Unfortunately for Fredette, the NBA isn't college basketball.

[fredericklove]

If we drop as low as 6-10 range in the lottery, I have to say that we draft Jimmer Fredette.

PROS

-best shooter in his class; all NBA PGs will have to guard him from half-court
-gets to the rim (draws a ton of fouls in college)
-NBA defense rules give him an advantage
-plays team ball
-Strength helps to negate lack of athleticism
-Leader for his team (carries a quiet Steve Nash confidence about him)
-High b-ball IQ

CONS

-Won't stop elite PGs (question is who can stop C.Paul, Deron, Rondo, Rose?)
-Shoot-first mentality (his role at BYU encourages this)
-Too much hype about him to live up to expectations (he manages the pressure of having all of Utah and States watch his every game; played well in front of NBA players and GMs)

At worst the Raps would be getting a great bench scoring threat who gives us legit three-point shooting. The best-case scenario is that he can be the right PG to build around because he brings great leadership skills and intensity.

Who I have rated higher Jimmer:
-Irving
-Sullinger
-Barnes
-Knight
-Valanciunas

Other players like Jones, Vesely, Kanter are either bad fits or projects that we shouldn't get into developing. We need NBA ready players for once.

Thumbs down.

[fredericklove]

Dropping to 8?

Based on what Barnes has done in college (absolutely nothing), he doesn't even deserve to be a lottery pick.

Why don't you back this up with some analysis instead of just bashing the guy? Have you seen him play? Don't give me FG% because I have no doubt in his ability to become a lethal shooter in the NBA. He had a tough time getting adjusted to the NCAA on the offensive side of the ball but recently he's picked it up with 18 PPG in his last 8. If you do watch him make sure you aren't just focusing on one side of the ball. His defense and rebounding are what have impressed me most this year. I watched him dominate in H.S. and I've seen shades of that at UNC but he's not asked to the the man on that team.

Carolina is PG dominated and loves to score in the paint with Tyler Zeller. HB has been relegated to a jump shooting role and opposing teams are starting to key on keeping him out of the game. When Barnes is playing well UNC is very difficult to beat but neutralizing him gives you a chance. I know that he has struggled at time this season, but who hasn't? D-Will went 3-11 last night and I don't see anyone complaining. Bosh went 1-18 but it doesn't mean he's a bad player. These guys are 18-19 so it's not guaranteed that they'll be consistently great just yet.

Don't unfairly judge HB based on his crazy hype coming into this season. The hype was justified for what he accomplished on the H.S. level and that shouldn't be forgotten. You don't have to worry about him because one of two things will happen. He'll either prove to the world that he's the same pre-season 1st team all-American guy in March and get picked top 5 or go back to school and try to do it next year. If he enters and drops to 8 we can't complain.

Agree. Some people just bashes without backing their stuff up lol, that guy probably never watched a single game, what a clown.

[Walid]

Do we have a second round pick? And man Jimmer Fredette is playing CRAZY right now, he's like a PG Brandon Roy imo. If we don't get Irving we should get this guy or a nice SF to complement DeRozan. If not pick up Enes Kanter.

[JN]

Jimmer Fredette was considered one of the most underrated players in America by those who activaly follow college basketball last year and was an All-American, By the time tournament came around he was well known and he had a mystique entering the tournament,

He is not some one year flash. But everyone assumed he was a four year player so he was going under the draft radar.

Unfortunately for Fredette, the NBA isn't college basketball.

My response was to the statement that Fredette was a nobody entering his senior year, which was completely false. I'm not sold on him as a top 10 pick, nor do I think the should go in the lotto.

That being said he is more Redick then Morrison. Morrision was a scorer, while Redick was a shooter / scorer. People forget that Morrison was not a great outside shooter at Gonzaga - he had an excellent mid range game that he could not execute at the NBA level. When they tried to make him a shooter he was not really great at that. Redick and Fredette on the other hand have the great shot to fall back on.

[Silk Wilkes]

The only way I take a chance on Fredette is if we miss out on Kyrie Irving and end up taking Terrence Jones. I say that because Irving is a point just like Jimmer, which would make it unnecessary to draft him. But if you draft a guy like Jimmer you're drafting a scorer, so you need a guy at the wing who can bring the ball up and dish it out similar to the Odom/Fisher or Turkoglu/Nelson combo's in the NBA. This all depends on if we could get a 2nd first round pick though.

[JamesNaismith]

I sarcastically made my sig but I really have a gut feeling that Barnes will be the guy we draft.



There is no way I take a hyped up white guy in (Jimmer) the draft....that move has just utterly failed so many teams in the past (Laetner, Reeves, Morrison etc). Don't be fools and fall into too.