2011 Synergy D-stat rankings - Derozan D-stats pg. 11

[darth_federer]

Hey DH do you have stats for Derozan? Most of us are kind of disappointed in his defense this year.

[J-Roc]

Is this still based on postup D, and not help D?

[darth_federer]

Hes always been decent at postup D. I think all the offensive responsibility is wearing him down. Even Supersub a big time Bargnani hater conceded it.

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1073942

[Double Helix]

Is this still based on postup D, and not help D?

Synergy tracks, evaluates and ranks defenders in the following areas:

Isolation: This seems pretty self-explanatory. Somebody faces up a player and the opposing player defends him.

Spot-Up shooter: Presumably this is running out and contesting shots.

Post-Up: Again, pretty self explanatory.

Pick and Roll Man coverage: This is probably the most interesting one and it's surprisingly an area Bargnani is reportedly very good at.

They record the points scored against in all of these situations over the course of the year and then rank all of the players according to the data. Because the points scored against are (usually) less than a point and only extend to two decimal places (ie: 0.92 points scored against per possession) you'll see a lot of ties.

The overall defensive ranking is based on all of the above factors. Bigs traditionally are ranked low even when elite due to the amount of action they're involved with defensively. Opposing bigs are also usually some of the highest percentage scorers in the game so even with solid defence... a good C might score regardless. Nevertheless, many bigs with good defensive reputations did score well in this. For example, Dwight Howard, Emeka Okafor, Kendrick Perkins, Anderson Varajao, Joakim Noah, Kevin Garnett all ranked very well in comparison to many of the names in the OP.

That said, there were certainly some surprises here. I fully expected Zach Randolph and Kevin love to make the weak defenders list but both actually ranked out pretty well this year. It's important to remember that this site has no bias. These are the cold hard stats recorded against these players and nothing more. These guys are professionals and this tool allows us to finally see how various players compare in key defensive areas around the league. As it's been said a million times in this thread... Players who gamble a lot for weakside blocks, shot challenges, obviously, aren't going to be rewarded in this system. You always have to process this data with your own knowledge of the game and the teammates these guys are playing with, the way they're coached, etc and try to fill in some of the gaps. Nothing will ever be even close to perfect when it comes to comparing the defensive abilities of various players around the league but this is still a great tool and it was very interesting to see some of the bigs on the list.

[Double Helix]

Hey DH do you have stats for Derozan? Most of us are kind of disappointed in his defense this year.

Sure. They actually have even more info for wing players.

Demar DeRozan:

Overall ranked 336 defensively

Isoloation: 185 - 0.86 points scored against - 78 attempts against
Pick and Roll Ball Handler: 185 - 0.96 points scored against - 104 attempts against
Post-Up: 252 - 1.13 points scored against - 22 attempts against
Spot-Up: 184 - 0.98 points scored against - 180 attempts against
Off-screen: 78 - 0.88 points scored against - 112 attempts against
Hand Off: 55 - 0.97 points scored against - 32 attempts against

For frame of reference, here's an elite defensive wing player... Andre Iguodala:

Overall ranked 21st defensively

Isolation: 85 - 0.75 points scored against - 82 attempts against
Pick and Roll Ball Handler: 12 - 0.63 points scored against - 93 attempts against
Post-Up: 161 - 0.91 points scored against - 31 attempts against
Spot-Up: 26 - 0.80 points scored against - 143 attempts against
Off-screen: 88 - 0.90 points scored against - 79 attempts against
Hand Off: NA - 20 attempts against

[Indeed]

I would ignore the `Hand Off` and `Pick and Roll Ball Handler`, since they are more team oriented, hint, your big can do more to help.

However, to be fair, DeRozan doesn't always guard the best wing opponent on the floor.
I am wondering what is his rank for `Isolation`, `Off-screen` and `Spot-Up`, since those are the things where SG will defend most of the time.

[darth_federer]

Hey DH do you have stats for Derozan? Most of us are kind of disappointed in his defense this year.

Sure. They actually have even more info for wing players.

Demar DeRozan:

Overall ranked 336 defensively

Isoloation: 185 - 0.86 points scored against - 78 attempts against
Pick and Roll Ball Handler: 185 - 0.96 points scored against - 104 attempts against
Post-Up: 252 - 1.13 points scored against - 22 attempts against
Spot-Up: 184 - 0.98 points scored against - 180 attempts against
Off-screen: 78 - 0.88 points scored against - 112 attempts against
Hand Off: 55 - 0.97 points scored against - 32 attempts against

For frame of reference, here's an elite defensive wing player... Andre Iguodala:

Overall ranked 21st defensively

Isolation: 85 - 0.75 points scored against - 82 attempts against
Pick and Roll Ball Handler: 12 - 0.63 points scored against - 93 attempts against
Post-Up: 161 - 0.91 points scored against - 31 attempts against
Spot-Up: 26 - 0.80 points scored against - 143 attempts against
Off-screen: 88 - 0.90 points scored against - 79 attempts against
Hand Off: NA - 20 attempts against

Oh man thats horrible. There are 450 players in the NBA and hes ranked 336. He better improve by next year...

[DG88]

Those stats aren't good for DeRozan, he really needs to improve his D over the summer.

[strangespot]

this team is so terribly flawed that it makes absolutely no sense to hate on individual guys.

[Volcano]

I wonder how it takes into account WHO they're guarding. Someone like Batum might have worse stats just because he's guarding the best wing player every game. It also doesn't take into account the impact of your teammates. If you stopped an iso possession, who's to say it wasn't because help came over and altered the shot? You could have been completely beat, yet it's marked down as a positive in the stats.

Players like ZBo/Love might do a little better just because they have Gasol/Darko roaming the paint as shot blockers..or because they're not asked to guard the better opposing big man.

[Local_NG_Idiot]

Hey DH do you have stats for Derozan? Most of us are kind of disappointed in his defense this year.

Sure. They actually have even more info for wing players.

Demar DeRozan:

Overall ranked 336 defensively

Isoloation: 185 - 0.86 points scored against - 78 attempts against
Pick and Roll Ball Handler: 185 - 0.96 points scored against - 104 attempts against
Post-Up: 252 - 1.13 points scored against - 22 attempts against
Spot-Up: 184 - 0.98 points scored against - 180 attempts against
Off-screen: 78 - 0.88 points scored against - 112 attempts against
Hand Off: 55 - 0.97 points scored against - 32 attempts against

For frame of reference, here's an elite defensive wing player... Andre Iguodala:

Overall ranked 21st defensively

Isolation: 85 - 0.75 points scored against - 82 attempts against
Pick and Roll Ball Handler: 12 - 0.63 points scored against - 93 attempts against
Post-Up: 161 - 0.91 points scored against - 31 attempts against
Spot-Up: 26 - 0.80 points scored against - 143 attempts against
Off-screen: 88 - 0.90 points scored against - 79 attempts against
Hand Off: NA - 20 attempts against

Oh man thats horrible. There are 450 players in the NBA and hes ranked 336. He better improve by next year...

All of the rookie, sophmore and 3rd year guards are all in the bottom half of the league in these rankings. I would rather see him compared to his peers (that experience level) at this point and not a guy who's been in the league now for 6 years and is 27 years old in his prime.

Edit: Compared to James Harden

James Harden:

Overall ranked 147 defensively

Isoloation: 156 - 0.83 points scored against - 87 attempts against
Pick and Roll Ball Handler: 116 - 0.84 points scored against - 90 attempts against
Post-Up: 148 - 0.9 points scored against - 36 attempts against
Spot-Up: 68 - 0.87 points scored against - 175 attempts against
Off-screen: 99 - 0.93 points scored against - 68 attempts against
Hand Off: NA - 19 attempts against

So DD in isolation type defensive sets as compared to Harden (who ranks way higher overall) are roughly even at PPP at 0.83 (Harden) to 0.86 (DeRozan).

DD does struggle in P&R Ball Handler and Post up situations. One in P&R situations is more of a two man game and when you look at the Bigs that have Harden's back compared to DD's it's pretty obvious even though he does need to improve here. In Posts Ups he needs to add strength which again, he's 21 and needs to get stronger, I don't think anyone will disagree that this will happen as he matures.

[Double Helix]

It's pretty interesting how many of the guys in the OP really do seem to have reputations for poor or soft defence.

The guys who Synergy confirmed as poor defenders in the areas they track the same way I thought they were poor defenders having watched them with my own eyes include:

Lee, JJ Hickson, Charlie V, Amare, Jamison, Biedrins, Thompson, Hibbert, Frye, Bargnani, Nene and Boozer.

Others, like Ibaka, Dalembert, E.Davis, and A. Johnson surprised me. These guys are more known for shot blocking but as we all know... being a great shot blocker doesn't automatically make you a great defender and despite some impressive shot block totals these guys clearly aren't in the same league defensively this year overall as the Garnetts, Dwights, Perkins, Okafors, Boguts, Horfords, Cambys, Gasols and even Chris Bosh's/Zach Randolphs/Lamarcus Aldridges of the league at the moment in terms of being able to help and dominate in the areas Synergy tracks. Fortunately for us... Ed Davis is only a rookie so he's just learning NBA defences and he'll improve.

The rest I wasn't too surprised with either way, I suppose, but overall... I feel a bit better about the salary Bargnani's at, and his role as a potential third banana type in the NBA for the next couple years while we continue to add talent to this core.

Overall, I think we need to go the Chicago Bulls route and bring in a defensive-minded coach in the coming years who can raise us from league worst to perhaps middle of the pack. Teams like Denver and Chicago this year have become average, or in Chicago's case, better than average defensively despite having major defensive weaknesses at more than a couple positions so smart coaches can overcome a couple weak links but with Toronto at the moment we have our PFs getting bullied and scored on, our PGs getting blown by, our SG getting scored on at will, and our C not helping to make up for any of these problems. It's been a total recipe for disaster obviously which is fine for the tank movement but eventually we're going to need either internal improvement from some of these guys (Davis has the potential obviously to be a force in multiple ways) some new and improved talent (hopefully coming in this draft) and a better defensive-minded coach (it certainly wouldn't hurt).

It's all about efficiency differential in this league as far as offence/defence goes. I think Colangelo has what it takes to build a top 5 offensive team as this core continues to grow, mature and acquire more high lottery talent. A top 5 offensive team with middle of the pack defence would immediately become one of the best Raptors teams in franchise history. I'd be pretty excited with that.

[Double Helix]

DD does struggle in P&R Ball Handler and Post up situations. One in P&R situations is more of a two man game and when you look at the Bigs that have Harden's back compared to DD's it's pretty obvious even though he does need to improve here. In Posts Ups he needs to add strength which again, he's 21 and needs to get stronger, I don't think anyone will disagree that this will happen as he matures.

Great points and I agree with you 100 percent. I also think Ed Davis and Amir Johnson will continue to improve as they get older. I know some feel Amir's peaked due to the fact that he's a young veteran but I still think both can and will improve. Ed's just going to keep getting smarter and smarter though so he'll definitely climb higher and higher on these lists as he gets older, wiser and stronger.

[DrewBynum77]

hey, can someone post the link of the site here? I tried to google "synnergy sports" but only found a site about technology..

Sorry peepz, I'm too stupid "internet-wise"

Edit: hmm I guess the trial is over?

Can someone post the stats for PnR defense among bigmans (centers and/or PFs)? Please?!? I'll give you a cookie

[Zorkmid]

I'm interested to see Chris Bosh's stats. Have you got em by any chance?

[Indeed]

I never like M$, so I won't install SliverLight, thus, I won't have access to Synergy, but I think the site is here:
http://mysynergysports.com/

[dagger]

this team is so terribly flawed that it makes absolutely no sense to hate on individual guys.

This board would implode if that were the case...

[DrewBynum77]

I never like M$, so I won't install SliverLight, thus, I won't have access to Synergy, but I think the site is here:
http://mysynergysports.com/

thanks!

( I was lying about the cookie. )