State of the Union. Team Canada Basketball. (FIBA Americas Aug.31-Sep.15)

[PoundTown]

Id probably say something along the lines of pangos, hanlan, and heslip as backup guards? And throw rautins in there as well.

[Mattd97]

yeah ennis being out hurts a little but isnt a huge blow. was just as likely heslip and rautins continue their legacy positions and stay as the back ups. which isnt horrible cause their spacing helps and theyve played well for the program

[frumble]

I posted earlier about Tyler Ennis's recent shoulder surgery and how it may impact his participation this summer. After a little more digging, the Bucks boards and bloggers seem to think he is out for the entire summer both summer league and Canadian National Team duties. Now this is probably very uncertain and there isn't much focus by fans/boards/bloggers on the Bucks 12th man, but my guess is yes, he misses summer league which is mostly in July. But SMNT is going to be mid-August through early September right? Can anyone confirm how serious this surgery was and whether he will (un)likely rep Canada this summer?

Assuming he is out, where do you think we are with the back up PG? Jermaine Anderson? Pangos? A semi capable Steve Nash could be useful. I am sure the chances are slim to none, but anyone care to speculate on a player/GM, Steve Nash giving it a final go?

It sure makes CJ's contract situation more important, that’s for sure.

Doesn't sound too good.

At around 5:20 of this interview, Ennis talks about his summer plans. Says he will likely be there in a support role, but won't play. He is talking about PanAm, but sounds like he won't be able to play at FIBA either, as he later talks about rehabbing to be ready for start of season.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urmkHyo ... e=youtu.be

This is too bad. Not just for Canada, but for his development.

Re what Canada does, I think the most likely candidates for the backup PG spot are Anderson and Cadougan (Heslip and Rautins are options for the 2, but not PG. And we need at least one PG behind C. Joseph).
Would be nice if Pangos and Hanlan were in the mix, but it will be tough as they will be trying to land pro contracts, so I doubt they will be available.

So I think it will very probably be C. Joseph and Anderson. If either of them doesn't play, maybe have to go deeper to Cadougan.
I suppose next in line would be Kabongo. Maybe Scrubb and Mullings, but like Hanlan and Pangos, they will be trying to secure their first pro contracts.

[mojo13]

No offense to everything he has done, but I was hoping we could move on from Anderson. I mean - he is what? - the back-up PG on a German Bundesleague team that was regulated this year. Cadougan doesn't have a much better current resume - a back up on a bad team, but at least it is a better league (Series A Italian league) and he is young and on an upward trend. Kabongo? Still young and I have hope, but he couldn't even hold a job in the Swedish league (keep working hard though, the talent once seemed there).

I think Pangos and Hanlan are viable options. The good thing is FIBA Americas won't conflict with summer league (which I expect both of them to participate and prioritize). After summer league I expect both to not have garunteed contracts and be looking to improve themselves and gain exposure.
I think Powell played last year without a contact, I am sure Bachynski and did Ejim too. Participation with the SMNT seems like it would be a resume builder and chance to show yourself at a high level. Scouts/GMs do attend.

It is the guys with garunteed rookie contracts that probably opt out at their NBA team's request (Wiggins/Ennis last year - Lyles this year).

[frumble]

No offense to everything he has done, but I was hoping we could move on from Anderson. I mean - he is what? - the back-up PG on a German Bundesleague team that was regulated this year. Cadougan doesn't have a much better current resume - a back up on a bad team, but at least it is a better league (Series A Italian league) and he is young and on an upward trend. Kabongo? Still young and I have hope, but he couldn't even hold a job in the Swedish league (keep working hard though, the talent once seemed there).

I think Pangos and Hanlan are viable options. The good thing is FIBA Americas won't conflict with summer league (which I expect both of them to participate and prioritize). After summer league I expect both to not have garunteed contracts and be looking to improve themselves and gain exposure.
I think Powell played last year without a contact, I am sure Bachynski and did Ejim too. Participation with the SMNT seems like it would be a resume builder and chance to show yourself at a high level. Scouts/GMs do attend.

It is the guys with garunteed rookie contracts that probably opt out at their NBA team's request (Wiggins/Ennis last year - Lyles this year).

Good point re SMNT being an opportunity for guys to get exposure and land a contract. I hope you are right re Pangos and, especially, Hanlan.

Re Anderson vs. Cadougan, I think Anderson did start this past season. The stats on RealGM show that he started 30 of 33 games, and averaged 29 MPG (compared with 8 MPG for Cadougan). Anderson shot 45% from the field, 38% from 3, and 89% from the line (vs. 36%, 29%, and 46% for Cadougan). He had a 2:1 A:TO ratio (vs. 0.8 for Cadougan). Plus Anderson has much more international experience. Neither is ideal, but I think Anderson would be the better choice if it comes down to that.

[mojo13]

No offense to everything he has done, but I was hoping we could move on from Anderson. I mean - he is what? - the back-up PG on a German Bundesleague team that was regulated this year. Cadougan doesn't have a much better current resume - a back up on a bad team, but at least it is a better league (Series A Italian league) and he is young and on an upward trend. Kabongo? Still young and I have hope, but he couldn't even hold a job in the Swedish league (keep working hard though, the talent once seemed there).

I think Pangos and Hanlan are viable options. The good thing is FIBA Americas won't conflict with summer league (which I expect both of them to participate and prioritize). After summer league I expect both to not have garunteed contracts and be looking to improve themselves and gain exposure.
I think Powell played last year without a contact, I am sure Bachynski and did Ejim too. Participation with the SMNT seems like it would be a resume builder and chance to show yourself at a high level. Scouts/GMs do attend.

It is the guys with garunteed rookie contracts that probably opt out at their NBA team's request (Wiggins/Ennis last year - Lyles this year).

Good point re SMNT being an opportunity for guys to get exposure and land a contract. I hope you are right re Pangos and, especially, Hanlan.

Re Anderson vs. Cadougan, I think Anderson did start this past season. The stats on RealGM show that he started 30 of 33 games, and averaged 29 MPG (compared with 8 MPG for Cadougan). Anderson shot 45% from the field, 38% from 3, and 89% from the line (vs. 36%, 29%, and 46% for Cadougan). He had a 2:1 A:TO ratio (vs. 0.8 for Cadougan). Plus Anderson has much more international experience. Neither is ideal, but I think Anderson would be the better choice if it comes down to that.

Thanks for pointing that out for Anderson....makes me feel a little better. You inspired me to tool around the sight looking at stats on some of the other players playing in Europe closer.

It looks like Rautins and English were among our best players in Europe. Key starters (possible allstars) on decent teams in the top leagues - no one else seemed too impressive. You may need to help me on the quality of the different leagues but I have always thought the Spanish league was the top followed by the Italian Series A and the Greek League. Kris Jospeh seemed to have a bad year in a second tier league (French), Ejim was a decent starter in the Series A league but looked like more of a role player. Heslip put up big stats but in the 2nd (or third) tier Adriatic League. We touched on Anderson and Caduogan.

Anyone else worth looking at? Especially in the PG/Wing positions - since I think we have enough NBA depth up front. More and more I think English or Rautins should be starting at SG and not Stauskas. Their FIBA experience will be key.

[Mattd97]

theres no reason rautins cant play back up 1 behind cojo. especially with wiggins demanding most of the ball. same with heslip

[Pooh_Jeter]

theres no reason rautins cant play back up 1 behind cojo. especially with wiggins demanding most of the ball. same with heslip

Rautins or Heslip playing the point would be an awful idea even if it was for 10 minutes a game. Wiggins is going to get plenty of opportunity to provide offense, but it isn't as though he is Lebron or Harden and can initiate the offense for himself and others.

I think Anderson will definitely make the team. Beyond him I would guess Pangos would get a shot. Cadougan didn't really impress all that much last year for the National Team. XRM played some point for Florida State, but it would be asking a lot to ask him to step in as the backup PG. If it got to the point where someone like Cadougan is on the radar as a PG I'd almost be tempted to throw Jamal Murray into the fire.

[aminiaturebuddha]

That's really too bad about Ennis. I was even hoping that he might play in both tournaments this summer since he didn't get much playing time during the year, and build up some SMNT experience, as he doesn't have any international experience beyond the U18 level.

On possible replacements, I agree that Anderson is probably the most likely candidate. I'm guessing he'll only need to play about 10 minutes a game, but it will limit Triano's options somewhat in terms of putting the best talent on the floor. Before this I would have expected to see extended minutes with both Ennis and Joseph and Cory moving to the 2.

I really think they need a pure point guard as a backup. They'll have enough combo guard shooters. For that reason as a secondary option to Anderson I'd probably prefer Pangos to Hanlan (even if Hanlan is the better overall talent).

This won't sink the team, obviously, but it makes the margin of error that much slimmer.

[Mattd97]

ideally youd want ennis, but theres no way im lessening the team by taking a significantly less skilled player (at least at this point in their careers) as a back up. we've seen wiggins both with the ball in his hands, and without, and its painfully obvious where he plays better. we've also seen both heslip and rautins play point guard for the NT in big tournaments, and usually be one of the best guys on the court for us. so i guess agree to disagree, but unless both PGs are out, i dont think it makes sense to blow your load on a 'true' but lesser point.

[frumble]

It looks like Rautins and English were among our best players in Europe. Key starters (possible allstars) on decent teams in the top leagues - no one else seemed too impressive. You may need to help me on the quality of the different leagues but I have always thought the Spanish league was the top followed by the Italian Series A and the Greek League. Kris Jospeh seemed to have a bad year in a second tier league (French), Ejim was a decent starter in the Series A league but looked like more of a role player. Heslip put up big stats but in the 2nd (or third) tier Adriatic League. We touched on Anderson and Caduogan.

Anyone else worth looking at? Especially in the PG/Wing positions - since I think we have enough NBA depth up front. More and more I think English or Rautins should be starting at SG and not Stauskas. Their FIBA experience will be key.

I think the only other guards/wings who played in Europe this season who might have a chance at the SMNT this summer are:
Devoe Joseph. Part time starter in the top French league. 25MPG, 10PPG, shot 40%.
Aaron Doornekamp. Part time starter in the top German league. 24 MPG, 6.5 PPG, shot 43%.
Jevohn Shepherd. Starter in Italian 2nd league. 36 MPG, 18 PPG, shot 48%.

With Ennis out, I assume we will take:
2 PGs out of:
Joseph
Anderson
Cadougan
Pangos
Hanlan

2 or 3 SGs out of:
English
Stauskas
Heslip
Rautins
Scrubb
Mullings

2 or 3 SFs out of:
Wiggins
Shepherd
Ejim
Pierre
K. Joseph
Doornekamp

Obviously the position definitions aren't hard and fast - Hanlan, Scrubb, and Mullings could be considered combo guards, the 2/3 distinction is largely meaningless, and Doornekamp and Ejim are probably more undersized 4s than 3s. However, I would be surprised if any guard/wing outside this group made the team.

[frumble]

I still haven't seen anything re the U19 team (open tryout was yesterday), and whether Justin Jackson and Jamal Murray will be playing. But Sonny Bairos (hoopshype) tweeted yesterday that Jamal Murray is a strong possibility to play at the PanAms (and to reclassify to 2015). He had his official campus visit to Oregon yesterday.

Has anyone seen anything re U19s or PanAms?

[frumble]

Basketball Canada did announce the Development team (for the University Games). All CIS (just like 2011). In 2013 they went with mix of NCAA and CIS.

[Hendrix]

theres no reason rautins cant play back up 1 behind cojo. especially with wiggins demanding most of the ball. same with heslip

Are we sure Wiggins is ready to handle most of this burden?

He just put up 16.9ppg on .517ts% on a 16 win team. With him, I think there's a lot to hope for in the future, but as of now, he does still have some decent sized holes in his game imo. To me it looks like in his prime he'll be a dude we can throw the ball to, and say "go get some buckets", but at the moment I'm not sure he can handle that, on a winning team.

[Mattd97]

theres no reason rautins cant play back up 1 behind cojo. especially with wiggins demanding most of the ball. same with heslip

Are we sure Wiggins is ready to handle most of this burden?

He just put up 16.9ppg on .517ts% on a 16 win team. With him, I think there's a lot to hope for in the future, but as of now, he does still have some decent sized holes in his game imo. To me it looks like in his prime he'll be a dude we can throw the ball to, and say "go get some buckets", but at the moment I'm not sure he can handle that, on a winning team.

im not sure he is either, but i think you have to live with it. he's already the best player on the team is he not? just hope that he can figure out to hit the open men his slashing creates and adjust to the heavier contact. its not kansas where he can coast in behind people, we literally need him to be the scorer. basketball isnt a game of absolutes though, its not as if give it to wiggins and move away would be the only play. but i think if we qualify it will be with him carrying the offensive burden, with help from the spot up shooters

[mojo13]

I am not sure he is the best player on the team at this point in time. Soon yes, but I can see an arguement for KO or CJ as being more important to this team. They are both more effecient on offense and KO seems like an ideal 4/5 for FIBA ball. Being able to clear out the lane with a bigman with an outside shot, and who is able to beat his man driving to the hoop and/or make a play for a team mate is going to be extremely important for us. In 2013 teams packed the paint as no one could hit an outside shot.

Don't be supsrised to see much of the offense driven through KO, thus really opening up the game for the rest of the guys. Imagine Wiggins' and CJ's slashing potential without a 4/5 sitting in the paint waitng for them. Along with Heslip/Raitins/Stauskas/English waiting to bomb away. And then TT drooling over offensive rebounds and putbacks. Good times!

[Mattd97]

olynyks a good passer so i wouldnt be surprised if he gets a lot of touches and opportunities to create. and FIBA ball does seem ideal for his game. but andrew wiggins is better at 20 than olynyk or cojo are right now. Im not sure its close. carl english is a better player right now for 1 game, but Im not even sure he decides to suit up for what will be a young team that hes not the face of.

[Hendrix]

theres no reason rautins cant play back up 1 behind cojo. especially with wiggins demanding most of the ball. same with heslip

Are we sure Wiggins is ready to handle most of this burden?

He just put up 16.9ppg on .517ts% on a 16 win team. With him, I think there's a lot to hope for in the future, but as of now, he does still have some decent sized holes in his game imo. To me it looks like in his prime he'll be a dude we can throw the ball to, and say "go get some buckets", but at the moment I'm not sure he can handle that, on a winning team.

im not sure he is either, but i think you have to live with it. he's already the best player on the team is he not? just hope that he can figure out to hit the open men his slashing creates and adjust to the heavier contact. its not kansas where he can coast in behind people, we literally need him to be the scorer. basketball isnt a game of absolutes though, its not as if give it to wiggins and move away would be the only play. but i think if we qualify it will be with him carrying the offensive burden, with help from the spot up shooters

You are correct basketball is not a game of absolutes.

I think maybe Corey Joseph, and Olynyk could have a bit more experience under their belts, a little more time working under good coaches/winning teams, and a bit more of a track record scoring efficiently at the highest level.

Olynyk for example is 24 years old, scored just as many points/36 as Wiggins last year but on better efficiency. Joseph has been coached under Pop, scored at a rate of .564ts% and has been getting more and more minutes on a great team every year.

I'm thinking some pick and roll/ pick and pop with Joseph, Olynyk, and Tristan could be a fairly reliable component of our offense. Also, off of that, there should be some good opportunities for Wiggins to find seams, and make cuts. I just am weary about Wiggins getting the ball, and the entire defense loading up to stop him (with less room in FIBA). I'm not sure he's the best decision maker, or capable of getting continual high efficiency shots for himself, and others in that scenario.

But, like you said basketball is not a game of absolutes, so perhaps now we heir on the side of Wiggins having a decent sized role on the team, but the offense doesn't live and die with him. And, then hopefully each year over the next few years he improves a bit, and we increase his role as that happens.

[Romaniano]

Why is Pangos on this team?

[Mattd97]

Why is Pangos on this team?

has played well internationally, team first pg who can catch fire and shoot with the best of them. only reason hes not an NBA guy is his height/athleticism, which is somewhat lessened in FIBA.


but hes also a bit of a longshot to be on the team unless ennis and/or cojo is out