Deep Dive into Masai's Presidency

[SoulJah]

Now that the season is over, I think it is time to have a look at Masai and his tenure with Toronto.

I preface this with saying Masai is a fine President, but that people need to stop looking at him as one of the elite of the elite President's in basketball.

Before I get "you are a hater who doesn't watch basketball", just a reminder I was the one saying Pascal and Fred will struggle big time against the Celtics and if you pay Fred 25 million, you will be stuck with one of the worst contracts in the NBA. I am only speaking in facts so as to make people realize that Masai is good but looking overall, he has had a lot of bad and the current state of the team isn't exactly much to write home about.

Now, when Masai took the team, he started strong, one of the best trades in franchise history (Bargs), and then Rudy Gay for the Sacramento package that netted us players to help make us a playoff team and get Vasquez who netted us OG and Norm.

Great start to his presidency.

Now I will give him a pass at the draft given that he took a project in Bruno and that he is relatively a great drafter (though Capella, Bogdanovic, Jokic, Grant, Dinwiddie, Harris, Powell, and Clarkson were all on the board).

Now, Kyle was basically traded to the Knicks but they backed out because they didn't want to get fleeced again, which in the end turned out great for us because Kyle has now had a borderline HOF career, but it cannot be ignored that he was going to trade him for MWP, Shumpert and a 2018 first rounder (which if the Knicks had Kyle would likely be a middling pick at best).

Okay, deals fall apart, let us leave that as well, but the next part cannot be ignored.

Masai signs Demarre Carroll who has recently had injuries to his Achilles and knee, two of the most red flag injuries in the league, and he not only signs him, but pays him 15 million dollars to be his "Lebron Stopper". 15 mil back then is something like 20+ currently for a 4-6 option on any good team. A similar player in Jae Crowder makes 7 mil in the current CBA with a higher cap. Luckily Wes Matthews was injured, otherwise Masai's plan was to sign him as well.

Okay, a blemish on the record is pretty common for most GM's, so let us say it was a mistake, but then if we start compounding it with others...

Masai had a core of Kyle, Val, and Derozan with their coach Casey for years. This core that kept getting embarrassed. Somehow Casey was not fired after the Wizards sweep (first time in NBA history the team with home court advantage was swept), and we continued to go with the same guys who had major issues in Demar who was one of the worst defenders in the league and who was unwilling/unable to learn the 3 point shot, which in today's NBA makes him a hugely flawed player.

Now he has some solid hits, signing Biyombo, Poetl is a tbd but got Kawhi so that's fine, and obviously leaving out contract, getting Pascal at 27 is a steal.

Then of course Fred not too long after which is again, a great gem of an undrafted player.

So some great moves by Masai, with some questionable ones, the biggest being that he kept going with a flawed core from the coach to their "star player".

Kyle and Serge are FA's in 2017, after a sweep to the Cavs and what do we do? We sign Kyle to a 30 million dollar deal for 2 years, and Serge to a 20+ million dollar deal. Kyle who didn't have a market and even asked to go to SA who didn't want him, and Serge who is a backup big in the NBA. For comparisons sake Brooke Lopez makes 13 million dollars as an all-star who is better than Serge in almost every facet.

We have a trend here of Masai handing out horrible deals left and right, which is the huge fear I have moving forward with Fred.

Masai then has to unload the horrendous contract of Carroll by trading a first and a second rounder to the Nets. Horrible asset management.

Solid pick in OG who is going to be a longstanding 3D in this league.

Then the big move, Kawhi. After years of going with a flawed core, a mediocre coach, a one in a million chance to get a player of Kawhi's caliber for one season comes along, and he jumps at it. Great trade of course, the best we have ever made, he carried us to the title.

Now of course one could say, but he did make the Kawhi trade, and he did get the title, sure, I agree, as I have said, this isn't a Masai is the worst GM in basketball, more so he is not this Godlike figure he is made out to be. If you look back he is great with drafting, trading for depth, but has huge issues with asset management in terms of contracts, handing out some of the worst deals in the league (such has Pascal and his max before he had done anything to earn it), and going with a flawed core. Masai also has huge issues with finding elite talent. Kawhi he got only because of the one year off very odd situation, but talent wise Toronto has never gotten great talent through Masai. Lot of good talent and depth pieces, but now that Kawhi is gone we don't really have any star power. Great coaching and depth but no starpower.

Masai will be here a long time, we all know that, but his patience and lucking into Kawhi do not forgive what we currently have. Kawhi is gone and we don't look very different to the Demar team and are severely lacking in elite talent.

If he keeps running the course it will be those same Demar years and the same people who hated those mediocre teams, the ones that were never truly a contender, and the chances a one in a million Kawhi trade happen again are slim to none.

GMs jobs are to build a sustained contender, and a one off title doesn't forgive Masai for prior to one season a mediocre Presidency.

Let's enjoy the personal jabs and people questioning if I watch basketball or hate myself

cool story bro

[Fairview4Life]

Mufasa level trolling.

[dacrusha]

OP been holding onto this thread content since the Demar trade ... finally excited to post it.

[Danny1616]

Lol, now compare Masai to every other GM in the league and list every other mistake that every other GM made and let's see how they compare.

Masai has been arguably the best GM in the league since taking over the Raptors in 2013.

[OakleyDokely]

Pat Riley signed some of the worst free agent contracts in the league for like a 2 year stretch.

People like to pretend that some of the top Presidents are perfect, but that just isnt the case when you break down each transaction.

Individual transactions really dont matter anyways. Can you build a consistent winner, that's the key question. Masai is one of the few who has. And he's done it in a foreign country that doesn't attract the top free agents like MIA, LA, NY does. And he's done it without tanking or top draft picks.

He's going to be the highest paid executive in basketball very soon and he will deserve every penny.

[vini_vidi_vici]

Its odd the premise of MU being a bad president is (in the OP) just a subjective analysis of personnel moves, as though thats all a president has done/accomplished. This is such an awful thread, its surprising its still going.

[Johnny Bball]

Masai left Denver for the money and allure of a bigger market and now that Denver team he left without building into a contender is poised to be one for many years to come.

People here act like Masai getting an all-star calibre player at 27 is the greatest thing since sliced bread, yet the Nuggets got an MVP calibre player who doesn't choke in the playoffs in the 2nd round. Jamal Murray is the exact type of guard you need in the modern NBA. MPJ has more potential than any player on the Raptors roster.

It's funny how they could lose this incredible executive, but then end up in a better position than the team he currently resides over.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/trends/win_trends/?range=yearly_since_2013_2014

Since MU got here the Raptors are the third most winning team in the NBA. Behind an incredible dynasty in the GSW and the Spurs that made the playoffs 22 years in a row and won 5 titles.

Since it takes time to fix trash, since 2016, the Raptors are the most winning franchise in the NBA. And they are no longer a laughing stock.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/trends/win_trends/?range=yearly_since_2016_2017

And here you are talking about the future, and didn't even once enjoy any of the past and pretending with regards to Ujiri's record it didn't happen.

And here you are talking about the future of the Nuggets being better SEVEN YEARS later, which it's very arguable it even is. Yeah 7 years later they are finally in a fairly good place.

And none of anything said here includes discussion of the accomplishments of getting a G-league team, new facilities, drastically improving player development and scouting.

How do you two guys convince yourself that any of what you say is remotely factual or objective.

[vini_vidi_vici]

Masai left Denver for the money and allure of a bigger market and now that Denver team he left without building into a contender is poised to be one for many years to come.

People here act like Masai getting an all-star calibre player at 27 is the greatest thing since sliced bread, yet the Nuggets got an MVP calibre player who doesn't choke in the playoffs in the 2nd round. Jamal Murray is the exact type of guard you need in the modern NBA. MPJ has more potential than any player on the Raptors roster.

It's funny how they could lose this incredible executive, but then end up in a better position than the team he currently resides over.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/trends/win_trends/?range=yearly_since_2013_2014

Since MU got here the Raptors are the third most winning team in the NBA. Behind an incredible dynasty in the GSW and the Spurs that made the playoffs 22 years in a row and won 5 titles.

Since it takes time to fix trash, since 2016, the Raptors are the most winning franchise in the NBA. And they are no longer a laughing stock.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/trends/win_trends/?range=yearly_since_2016_2017

And here you are talking about the future, and didn't even once enjoy any of the past and pretending with regards to Ujiri's record it didn't happen.

And here you are talking about the future of the Nuggets being better SEVEN YEARS later, which it's very arguable it even is. Yeah 7 years later they are finally in a fairly good place.

And none of anything said here includes discussion of the accomplishments of getting a G-league team, new facilities, drastically improving player development and scouting.

How do you two guys convince yourself that any of what you say is remotely factual or objective.

2nd most Ws in RS since 13-14
3rd most PO Ws since 13-14

One of 5 teams to win an OB in the last 7 yrs (since MU came here).
2 ECFs.
5 times in 2nd round.
7 PO appearances.

Even if were just going off results, its incredible for a franchise who the 18 yrs prior made 5 PO appearances and once made the 2nd round.

Thats just the results. Without delving into the other things we both broached that he has accomplished, that resume alone is without being a president in a "desirable" market, is enough. Then you add all the other stuff he has done for our franchise, and basketball as a whole, we are lucky to have him and its going to be tough when he moves on to bigger things than President of an NBA franchise.

[nabbs]

Pat Riley signed some of the worst free agent contracts in the league for like a 2 year stretch.

People like to pretend that some of the top Presidents are perfect, but that just isnt the case when you break down each transaction.

Individual transactions really dont matter anyways. Can you build a consistent winner, that's the key question. Masai is one of the few who has. And he's done it in a foreign country that doesn't attract the top free agents like MIA, LA, NY does. And he's done it without tanking or top draft picks.

He's going to be the highest paid executive in basketball very soon and he will deserve every penny.

It's incredible that Riley ended up with lotto picks to get Bam and Herro when he handed out big pay days to Tyler Johnson (which was a match on an offer sheet iirc), James Johnson and Dion Waiters.


Teams bailed him out and a lot of people forget.

[Pooh_Jeter]

Masai left Denver for the money and allure of a bigger market and now that Denver team he left without building into a contender is poised to be one for many years to come.

People here act like Masai getting an all-star calibre player at 27 is the greatest thing since sliced bread, yet the Nuggets got an MVP calibre player who doesn't choke in the playoffs in the 2nd round. Jamal Murray is the exact type of guard you need in the modern NBA. MPJ has more potential than any player on the Raptors roster.

It's funny how they could lose this incredible executive, but then end up in a better position than the team he currently resides over.

Championships:
Masai 1
Denver 0

Kawhi and Bobby had more to do with the championship than Masai did.

Masai is the dude who kept hanging onto DeRozan and Casey in the pursuit of fake regular season wins in a trash conference.

[Pooh_Jeter]

Pat Riley signed some of the worst free agent contracts in the league for like a 2 year stretch.

People like to pretend that some of the top Presidents are perfect, but that just isnt the case when you break down each transaction.

Individual transactions really dont matter anyways. Can you build a consistent winner, that's the key question. Masai is one of the few who has. And he's done it in a foreign country that doesn't attract the top free agents like MIA, LA, NY does. And he's done it without tanking or top draft picks.

He's going to be the highest paid executive in basketball very soon and he will deserve every penny.

It's incredible that Riley ended up with lotto picks to get Bam and Herro when he handed out big pay days to Tyler Johnson (which was a match on an offer sheet iirc), James Johnson and Dion Waiters.


Teams bailed him out and a lot of people forget.

I like how this is your takeaway from Riley's tenure.

He absolutely nailed those picks (which were late lotto picks, not top 5 picks). Tyler Johnson was undrafted and he picked up Nunn and Robinson as well. He made mistakes signing Johnson, Waiters and Whiteside, but he realized that quickly and look at their team and cap sheet now. Every GM makes mistakes, but a guy like Riley acts immediately he doesn't evaluate for 3 years.

[OakleyDokely]

Masai left Denver for the money and allure of a bigger market and now that Denver team he left without building into a contender is poised to be one for many years to come.

People here act like Masai getting an all-star calibre player at 27 is the greatest thing since sliced bread, yet the Nuggets got an MVP calibre player who doesn't choke in the playoffs in the 2nd round. Jamal Murray is the exact type of guard you need in the modern NBA. MPJ has more potential than any player on the Raptors roster.

It's funny how they could lose this incredible executive, but then end up in a better position than the team he currently resides over.

Championships:
Masai 1
Denver 0

Kawhi and Bobby had more to do with the championship than Masai did.

Masai is the dude who kept hanging onto DeRozan and Casey in the pursuit of fake regular season wins in a trash conference.

Masai is the dude who hung on to DD despite fan protests, drove up his value and then made him the centerpiece of the Kawhi deal.

If it were up to people like you, DD would have been dumped long before the Kawhi trade and the Kawhi opportunity would have passed.

Masai's record and reputation speaks for itself.

[Pooh_Jeter]

Masai left Denver for the money and allure of a bigger market and now that Denver team he left without building into a contender is poised to be one for many years to come.

People here act like Masai getting an all-star calibre player at 27 is the greatest thing since sliced bread, yet the Nuggets got an MVP calibre player who doesn't choke in the playoffs in the 2nd round. Jamal Murray is the exact type of guard you need in the modern NBA. MPJ has more potential than any player on the Raptors roster.

It's funny how they could lose this incredible executive, but then end up in a better position than the team he currently resides over.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/trends/win_trends/?range=yearly_since_2013_2014

Since MU got here the Raptors are the third most winning team in the NBA. Behind an incredible dynasty in the GSW and the Spurs that made the playoffs 22 years in a row and won 5 titles.

Since it takes time to fix trash, since 2016, the Raptors are the most winning franchise in the NBA. And they are no longer a laughing stock.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/trends/win_trends/?range=yearly_since_2016_2017

And here you are talking about the future, and didn't even once enjoy any of the past and pretending with regards to Ujiri's record it didn't happen.

And here you are talking about the future of the Nuggets being better SEVEN YEARS later, which it's very arguable it even is. Yeah 7 years later they are finally in a fairly good place.

And none of anything said here includes discussion of the accomplishments of getting a G-league team, new facilities, drastically improving player development and scouting.

How do you two guys convince yourself that any of what you say is remotely factual or objective.

Why do you keep going on about this nonsense that I haven't enjoyed anything or that I've been a fan for 5 minutes?

I enjoyed every minute of the Kawhi experience. He is the greatest player in franchise history and it's unlikely the Raptors ever have a player of his calibre again.

Every season since the Washington sweep was a wasted one except for of course the Kawhi outlier.

Why did it take the Nuggets time to recover? Because of Masai's ill fated Iguodala deal which left the team in shambles afterwards. They have recovered though and have a much brighter future than the Raptors. That you think this is even arguable is laughable.

[Pooh_Jeter]

Championships:
Masai 1
Denver 0

Kawhi and Bobby had more to do with the championship than Masai did.

Masai is the dude who kept hanging onto DeRozan and Casey in the pursuit of fake regular season wins in a trash conference.

Masai is the dude who hung on to DD despite fan protests, drove up his value and then made him the centerpiece of the Kawhi deal.

If it were up to people like you, DD would have been dumped long before the Kawhi trade and the Kawhi opportunity would have passed.

Masai's record and reputation speaks for itself.

Masai drove up DD's value?

He was the centre piece of a one in a million deal because the Spurs absolutely bungled the Kawhi situation and refused to trade him to the Lakers. With his value at an all time low the Spurs felt they needed an "all star" calibre player in return and they got one of the worst in return. Given how the DD/LMA experiment has fared you can see why they have pivoted to going young.

[OakleyDokely]

Kawhi and Bobby had more to do with the championship than Masai did.

Masai is the dude who kept hanging onto DeRozan and Casey in the pursuit of fake regular season wins in a trash conference.

Masai is the dude who hung on to DD despite fan protests, drove up his value and then made him the centerpiece of the Kawhi deal.

If it were up to people like you, DD would have been dumped long before the Kawhi trade and the Kawhi opportunity would have passed.

Masai's record and reputation speaks for itself.

Masai drove up DD's value?

He was the centre piece of a one in a million deal because the Spurs absolutely bungled the Kawhi situation and refused to trade him to the Lakers. With his value at an all time low the Spurs felt they needed an "all star" calibre player in return and they got one of the worst in return. Given how the DD/LMA experiment has fared you can see why they have pivoted to going young.

Yes DDs value went up dramatically during Masai's tenure. He made multiple allstar teams, even made an all-NBA team. Without him, no Kawhi deal.

Every team (maybe with the exception of the Lakers) could've dealt for Kawhi, including the Nuggets who had the assets to do it. The Raps were the team to pull it off. It was Masai and the Raps who took the opportunity to be great instead playing it safe.

[Fairview4Life]

Why did it take the Nuggets time to recover? Because of Masai's ill fated Iguodala deal which left the team in shambles afterwards. They have recovered though and have a much brighter future than the Raptors. That you think this is even arguable is laughable.

You think trading Aaron Afflalo and Al Harrington for Andre Iguodala in August of 2012 took the Nuggets 8 years to recover from? What is even going on here lol. Why, exactly, is the future all that matters either? Lots of teams have a brighter future than the Spurs too, but I doubt they would have wanted to dump Pop and Buford 8 years ago to have a "brighter future" starting in 2020. And futures change every single summer. Hell, every trade deadline too. Just silly arguments because you're mad the Raps lost a winnable playoff game.

[Johnny Bball]

Masai left Denver for the money and allure of a bigger market and now that Denver team he left without building into a contender is poised to be one for many years to come.

People here act like Masai getting an all-star calibre player at 27 is the greatest thing since sliced bread, yet the Nuggets got an MVP calibre player who doesn't choke in the playoffs in the 2nd round. Jamal Murray is the exact type of guard you need in the modern NBA. MPJ has more potential than any player on the Raptors roster.

It's funny how they could lose this incredible executive, but then end up in a better position than the team he currently resides over.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/trends/win_trends/?range=yearly_since_2013_2014

Since MU got here the Raptors are the third most winning team in the NBA. Behind an incredible dynasty in the GSW and the Spurs that made the playoffs 22 years in a row and won 5 titles.

Since it takes time to fix trash, since 2016, the Raptors are the most winning franchise in the NBA. And they are no longer a laughing stock.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/trends/win_trends/?range=yearly_since_2016_2017

And here you are talking about the future, and didn't even once enjoy any of the past and pretending with regards to Ujiri's record it didn't happen.

And here you are talking about the future of the Nuggets being better SEVEN YEARS later, which it's very arguable it even is. Yeah 7 years later they are finally in a fairly good place.

And none of anything said here includes discussion of the accomplishments of getting a G-league team, new facilities, drastically improving player development and scouting.

How do you two guys convince yourself that any of what you say is remotely factual or objective.

Why do you keep going on about this nonsense that I haven't enjoyed anything or that I've been a fan for 5 minutes?

I enjoyed every minute of the Kawhi experience. He is the greatest player in franchise history and it's unlikely the Raptors ever have a player of his calibre again.

Every season since the Washington sweep was a wasted one except for of course the Kawhi outlier.

Why did it take the Nuggets time to recover? Because of Masai's ill fated Iguodala deal which left the team in shambles afterwards. They have recovered though and have a much brighter future than the Raptors. That you think this is even arguable is laughable.

It took them 7 years to recover from Andre Igoudala? That's all you got? What a joke.

Yeah... Why would I ever base the future on his past team building and record right? Where as all you have is a guess and a hope that the Raptors are worse. If you can find me one positive post you made in the last year I would be **** shocked. And don't tell me you've enjoyed anything outside of Kawhi Leonard. Oh wait.. you didn't ... you enjoyed one guy in one year of it all. Barely.

You think trading Aaron Afflalo and Al Harrington for Andre Iguodala in August of 2012 took the Nuggets 8 years to recover from? What is even going on here lol. Why, exactly, is the future all that matters either? Lots of teams have a brighter future than the Spurs too, but I doubt they would have wanted to dump Pop and Buford 8 years ago to have a "brighter future" starting in 2020. And futures change every single summer. Hell, every trade deadline too. Just silly arguments because you're mad the Raps lost a winnable playoff game.

When the world taste like ash you just makeup reasons your aren't wrong and it's not you.

[vini_vidi_vici]

Why do you keep going on about this nonsense that I haven't enjoyed anything or that I've been a fan for 5 minutes?

I enjoyed every minute of the Kawhi experience. He is the greatest player in franchise history and it's unlikely the Raptors ever have a player of his calibre again.

Every season since the Washington sweep was a wasted one except for of course the Kawhi outlier.

So youre a championship or bust guy. An ECF birth, "waste of time".

Just some advice for you and ppl of this ilk. If you dont watch them, if you dont post here, you wont "waste" your time.

Have you thought maybe this is a reflection of you and your unrealistic expectations, and not MU??

[the_flash__]

Championships:
Masai 1
Denver 0

Kawhi and Bobby had more to do with the championship than Masai did.

Masai is the dude who kept hanging onto DeRozan and Casey in the pursuit of fake regular season wins in a trash conference.

Masai is the dude who hung on to DD despite fan protests, drove up his value and then made him the centerpiece of the Kawhi deal.

If it were up to people like you, DD would have been dumped long before the Kawhi trade and the Kawhi opportunity would have passed.

Masai's record and reputation speaks for itself.

Couldn't agree more with you on "DD would have been dumped long before the Kawhi trade". I am not sure what people think Masai is supposed to do any time there's an issue with the team(Casey/Demar).

It's the NBA. NBA level talent to improve your team isn't available the instant you want it. He made the moves he did to improve our team when he could. Building a winner takes time. Culture takes time. Yeah we all know Demar wasn't the answer, and Casey wasn't the answer. But you can't replace that **** on a whim. Takes multiple years for opportunities to present themselves.

Also to the guy saying that chip had more to do with Kawhi and Bobby, Masai traded for Kawhi. Masai also traded for Gasol to put us over the top.

I swear these clowns just want another Bryan Colangelo who makes half a dozen moves every offseason without a long term vision so they have something to be excited about in the offseason and make stupidass hype videos of a Bargnani tier player. Don’t Confuse Motion with Progress.

[Pooh_Jeter]

Why do you keep going on about this nonsense that I haven't enjoyed anything or that I've been a fan for 5 minutes?

I enjoyed every minute of the Kawhi experience. He is the greatest player in franchise history and it's unlikely the Raptors ever have a player of his calibre again.

Every season since the Washington sweep was a wasted one except for of course the Kawhi outlier.

So youre a championship or bust guy. An ECF birth, "waste of time".

Just some advice for you and ppl of this ilk. If you dont watch them, if you dont post here, you wont "waste" your time.

Have you thought maybe this is a reflection of you and your unrealistic expectations, and not MU??

It's not championship or bust, it's about being on a path to build a contender. Those DeRozan/Lowry/Casey teams were absolute frauds. If you think that ECF berth meant anything beyond a nice banner to put at the top of the ACC you're crazy.

I'm not wasting my time, I love basketball. It's people of your ilk who act like gatekeepers on what people can do and say.