Summer League Thread Part 4: Aug 14th Charlotte @7pm TSN2

[ForeverTFC]

Westbrook wasn't drafted in his freshman year is what I'm saying. He had to prove (he was a reach and a great one) himself a lottery player.

But Westbrook's stats as a sophmore were virtually identical to Barnes as a freshman and he went #4.

Westbrook's team went to the final 4, he was pac 10 defensive player of the year and was widely considered a huge reach at #4 that year. He also was a starter for Collison

Why does it even matter that he was considered a reach? Was he the right pick? Yes. End of story.

If Giannis was picked 1st overall would that have been a mistake? He would have definitely been considered a reach. And he definitely would not have dominated in college in any way.

[Danny1616]

Westbrook's team went to the final 4, he was pac 10 defensive player of the year and was widely considered a huge reach at #4 that year. He also was a starter for Collison

So what are you suggesting? That Barnes stay another year at College, start for Florida St, play more minutes and post better stats simply to appease you? Would that aid you psychologically?

Who suggested that exactly? I asked simply which other 6th man was taken that high and successful? You misinterpreted the question and are now upset about it for some reason. If you can answer the question (which was my original query) that would be great, if not, that's fine too.

But I'm asking you why does it matter that he's 6th man.

I'm sure he could have stayed another year, start and post way better stats.

Also just reading about it may have been just a conscious decision by the coaching staff irrelevant of his play.

He averaged just 24.5 minutes per game and most often came off the bench – something that will raise skepticism with people unfamiliar with Florida State’s modus operandi but a common practice with Leonard Hamilton, who had no one on the team average more than 29 minutes per game and had as many as nine players average a minimum of 13 minutes per game (and even three more players who logged single digit averages but appeared in at least 18 games).

So no one on Florida St. played more than 29 minutes a game while on other teams guys like Suggs and Mobley played nearly 35mpg.

Patrick Williams played for Florida St. the year before, went #4 overall and only averaged 22mpg and his stats were worse than Barnes.Williams came off the bench the entire season.

So let the context before just simply making assumptions that him coming off the bench or played less minutes meant he wasn't good enough. It was common practice from the coaching staff for everyone.

[Kurtz]

lol @ "you draft a superstar at 4".

The best draft of all time in recent memory was 2003:
1. Lebron (superstar)
2. Milicic (bust)
3. Melo (star)
4. Bosh (all-star)
5. Wade (star)

Here is the number 4 pick in the last 10 drafts:
2020 Patrick Williams - Chicago Bulls
2019 De’Andre Hunter – Atlanta Hawks
2018 Jaren Jackson Jr.– Memphis Grizzlies
2017 Josh Jackson – Phoenix Suns
2016 Dragan Bender – Phoenix Suns
2015 Kristaps Porzingis – New York Knicks
2014 Aaron Gordon – Orlando Magic
2013 Cody Zeller – Charlotte Bobcats
2012 Dion Waiters – Cleveland Cavaliers
2011 Tristan Thompson – Cleveland Cavaliers
2010 Wesley Johnson – Minnesota Timberwolves

You look at that list and tell me superstar is your expectation at 4 and you'd be unhappy with Draymond Green? You need to lower your expectations. People are so obsessed with prospects, they don't realize how rare it is to hit at ANY spot and how hard it is to draft a superstar in general.

I agree with your main point, but I'd bump those classifications from 2003.

1. Lebron (MVP)
2. MIlicic (bench big, bust)
3. Melo (superstar)
4. Bosh (star)
5. Wade (superstar)

I mean those 4 guys are all likely hall of famers.

[ForeverTFC]

lol @ "you draft a superstar at 4".

The best draft of all time in recent memory was 2003:
1. Lebron (superstar)
2. Milicic (bust)
3. Melo (star)
4. Bosh (all-star)
5. Wade (star)

Here is the number 4 pick in the last 10 drafts:
2020 Patrick Williams - Chicago Bulls
2019 De’Andre Hunter – Atlanta Hawks
2018 Jaren Jackson Jr.– Memphis Grizzlies
2017 Josh Jackson – Phoenix Suns
2016 Dragan Bender – Phoenix Suns
2015 Kristaps Porzingis – New York Knicks
2014 Aaron Gordon – Orlando Magic
2013 Cody Zeller – Charlotte Bobcats
2012 Dion Waiters – Cleveland Cavaliers
2011 Tristan Thompson – Cleveland Cavaliers
2010 Wesley Johnson – Minnesota Timberwolves

You look at that list and tell me superstar is your expectation at 4 and you'd be unhappy with Draymond Green? You need to lower your expectations. People are so obsessed with prospects, they don't realize how rare it is to hit at ANY spot and how hard it is to draft a superstar in general.

I agree with your main point, but I'd bump those classifications from 2003.

1. Lebron (MVP)
2. MIlicic (bench big, bust)
3. Melo (superstar)
4. Bosh (star)
5. Wade (superstar)

I mean those 4 guys are all likely hall of famers.

I'm a D-Wade hater man, leave me alone

[Young_Buc]

But Westbrook's stats as a sophmore were virtually identical to Barnes as a freshman and he went #4.

Westbrook's team went to the final 4, he was pac 10 defensive player of the year and was widely considered a huge reach at #4 that year. He also was a starter for Collison

Why does it even matter that he was considered a reach? Was he the right pick? Yes. End of story.

If Giannis was picked 1st overall would that have been a mistake? He would have definitely been considered a reach. And he definitely would not have dominated in college in any way.

Then hats off to Presti for making that reach. More often than not (see Babcock Rob, Cavaliers Cleveland) reaches DONT pan out. If Barnes ends up the stud of this class, hats off to the front office for having that foresight. If not, it wasn't an unprecedented move. It was one that's been done numerous times with poor results.

[Danny1616]

Westbrook's team went to the final 4, he was pac 10 defensive player of the year and was widely considered a huge reach at #4 that year. He also was a starter for Collison

Why does it even matter that he was considered a reach? Was he the right pick? Yes. End of story.

If Giannis was picked 1st overall would that have been a mistake? He would have definitely been considered a reach. And he definitely would not have dominated in college in any way.

Then hats off to Presti for making that reach. More often than not (see Babcock Rob, Cavaliers Cleveland) reaches DONT pan out. If Barnes ends up the stud of this class, hats off to the front office for having that foresight. If not, it wasn't an unprecedented move. It was one that's been done numerous times with poor results.

As I stated above, it is common practice for the Florida coaching staff not to play players heavy minutes and have freshman players come off the bench.

He averaged just 24.5 minutes per game and most often came off the bench – something that will raise skepticism with people unfamiliar with Florida State’s modus operandi but a common practice with Leonard Hamilton, who had no one on the team average more than 29 minutes per game and had as many as nine players average a minimum of 13 minutes per game (and even three more players who logged single digit averages but appeared in at least 18 games).

Patrick Williams played for Florida the year before and came off the bench the entire year, played less minutes than Barnes and worse stats. He went #4 overall.

Patrick Williams on coming off bench the entire season at Florida State: "It taught me how to do your part, whatever your part is ... Do your part and do it well ... In the NBA, it's all about roles.

[Young_Buc]

So what are you suggesting? That Barnes stay another year at College, start for Florida St, play more minutes and post better stats simply to appease you? Would that aid you psychologically?

Who suggested that exactly? I asked simply which other 6th man was taken that high and successful? You misinterpreted the question and are now upset about it for some reason. If you can answer the question (which was my original query) that would be great, if not, that's fine too.

But I'm asking you why does it matter that he's 6th man.

I'm sure he could have stayed another year, start and post way better stats.

Also just reading about it may have been just a conscious decision by the coaching staff irrelevant of his play.

He averaged just 24.5 minutes per game and most often came off the bench – something that will raise skepticism with people unfamiliar with Florida State’s modus operandi but a common practice with Leonard Hamilton, who had no one on the team average more than 29 minutes per game and had as many as nine players average a minimum of 13 minutes per game (and even three more players who logged single digit averages but appeared in at least 18 games).

So no one on Florida St. played more than 29 minutes a game while on other teams guys like Suggs and Mobley played nearly 35mpg.

Patrick Williams played for Florida St. the year before, went #4 overall and only averaged 22mpg and his stats were worse than Barnes.Williams came off the bench the entire season.

So let the context before just simply making assumptions that him coming off the bench or played less minutes meant he wasn't good enough. It was common practice from the coaching staff for everyone.

No, I get ALL of that. I have similar questions about Barnes that I would about Williams like I did about Marvin Williams (but I admit I thought maggette was a better Vince Carter on a legendary Duke team, probably the greatest ever... To lose) I question their dominance that comes with being a superstar.

[Danny1616]

Who suggested that exactly? I asked simply which other 6th man was taken that high and successful? You misinterpreted the question and are now upset about it for some reason. If you can answer the question (which was my original query) that would be great, if not, that's fine too.

But I'm asking you why does it matter that he's 6th man.

I'm sure he could have stayed another year, start and post way better stats.

Also just reading about it may have been just a conscious decision by the coaching staff irrelevant of his play.

He averaged just 24.5 minutes per game and most often came off the bench – something that will raise skepticism with people unfamiliar with Florida State’s modus operandi but a common practice with Leonard Hamilton, who had no one on the team average more than 29 minutes per game and had as many as nine players average a minimum of 13 minutes per game (and even three more players who logged single digit averages but appeared in at least 18 games).

So no one on Florida St. played more than 29 minutes a game while on other teams guys like Suggs and Mobley played nearly 35mpg.

Patrick Williams played for Florida St. the year before, went #4 overall and only averaged 22mpg and his stats were worse than Barnes.Williams came off the bench the entire season.

So let the context before just simply making assumptions that him coming off the bench or played less minutes meant he wasn't good enough. It was common practice from the coaching staff for everyone.

No, I get ALL of that. I have similar questions about Barnes that I would about Williams like I did about Marvin Williams (but I admit I thought maggette was a better Vince Carter on a legendary Duke team, probably the greatest ever... To lose) I question their dominance that comes with being a superstar.

But it seems it didn't matter who you were on Florida St., the coaching staff wasn't going to play you heavy minutes and likely have freshman come off the bench.

[C_Money]

Yeah I just can’t get behind that Scottie Barnes pick. In all likelihood we probably screwed that up and set our franchise back a few years. Everything about him screams “role player”.

[WeThe2019Champs]

Only 2 games, didn't look pretty. Hopefully game 3 will be more fun.

[tdotrep2]

Yeah I just can’t get behind that Scottie Barnes pick. In all likelihood we probably screwed that up and set our franchise back a few years. Everything about him screams “role player”.

hi end role player, but if we give him the ball to operate i think he could develop into possibly all star caliber.

[Phezmo123]

I was wrong with my Draymond take. It will not be a failure. Draymond is a hall of famer. I overreacted.

I think what we can all agree on though that if Suggs ends up a better player than Barnes, then it will be a failure on the part of Masai and Bobby. There's no disputing that.

[Dalek]

I think people have to realize Scottie Barnes is a smart player who has figured out his niche at every level he has played at from high school to transferring to Monteverde, to USA basketball and Florida State. He always figures out what his team needs and plays within the structure well.

I think the button clicked on in the third when he went into attack mode when his team needed it. Sadly Mutombo benched him and put him back in late in the fourth which might have taken him out of rhythm.

Honestly, this is a weirdly constructed team. You have Barnes who can make any pass needed to the perimeter and we have no shooters except a couple G-League has beens. Flynn also was completely off today. Let's see how they bounce back.

[Reeko]

Honestly nobody on the Raps looked good in this last game, the offense looked completely out of whack. I'd like to see a lot less of Banton, Flynn, Johnson and those G Leaguers initiating the offense, and a lot more of Barnes running the show. Scottie didn't shoot well, but whenever the ball was in his hands he made something happen. I love his passion for the game and his turn around mid range jumper was really nice, but his reaction afterwards was kind of extra. I would like for him to get to place where he expects to make those types of shots and it's just business as usual, hopefully this comes as he matures and improves his game.

Barnes and Kuminga going at each other was really fun to watch. It felt like in the second half Barnes realized that Kuminga was getting the better of him and Scottie really started to turn it on in the 3rd. I'm hoping the coaching staff is ingraining the attack mindset in Barnes, because when he's committed and aggressive attacking the rim or getting to his spot, good luck trying to stop him.

I wonder if how Barnes would look playing with the starters, passing to smart cutters like Pascal and OG, or shooters like Flynn and Trent.

I really hope our plan to develop him is to put the ball in his hands on offense and not have him stand in the corner waiting to shoot a 3.

[C_Money]

Just because someone is a project & raw doesn't mean they don't deserve to go high. Players are usually ranked on their perceived potential

If Barnes hits, you basically got a player who is the exact archetype of the future. 6'9 playmaker that can cover all positions. That's why he went #4.

Guys like Suggs, Sengun, Jalen Johnson, Bouknight etc WILL look better than Scottie on most nights this season

Save yourself the headache and don't meltdown when Barnes has an unproductive night while some other rookie just popped off for 20.

I’m not seeing the potential, tbh. Maybe if he was an explosive athlete like Giannis but he’s just straight up not.

[720]

lol @ "you draft a superstar at 4".

The best draft of all time in recent memory was 2003:
1. Lebron (superstar)
2. Milicic (bust)
3. Melo (star)
4. Bosh (all-star)
5. Wade (star)

Here is the number 4 pick in the last 10 drafts:
2020 Patrick Williams - Chicago Bulls
2019 De’Andre Hunter – Atlanta Hawks
2018 Jaren Jackson Jr.– Memphis Grizzlies
2017 Josh Jackson – Phoenix Suns
2016 Dragan Bender – Phoenix Suns
2015 Kristaps Porzingis – New York Knicks
2014 Aaron Gordon – Orlando Magic
2013 Cody Zeller – Charlotte Bobcats
2012 Dion Waiters – Cleveland Cavaliers
2011 Tristan Thompson – Cleveland Cavaliers
2010 Wesley Johnson – Minnesota Timberwolves

You look at that list and tell me superstar is your expectation at 4 and you'd be unhappy with Draymond Green? You need to lower your expectations. People are so obsessed with prospects, they don't realize how rare it is to hit at ANY spot and how hard it is to draft a superstar in general.

I agree with your main point, but I'd bump those classifications from 2003.

1. Lebron (MVP)
2. MIlicic (bench big, bust)
3. Melo (superstar)
4. Bosh (star)
5. Wade (superstar)

I mean those 4 guys are all likely hall of famers.

I'm a D-Wade hater man, leave me alone

Nah your classification is more accurate. Making the hall of fame doesn’t mean you’re a superstar.

[Reeko]

I agree with your main point, but I'd bump those classifications from 2003.

1. Lebron (MVP)
2. MIlicic (bench big, bust)
3. Melo (superstar)
4. Bosh (star)
5. Wade (superstar)

I mean those 4 guys are all likely hall of famers.

I'm a D-Wade hater man, leave me alone

Nah your classification is more accurate. Making the hall of fame doesn’t mean you’re a superstar.

From '05-'10, Wade was absolutely a superstar.

[720]

I'm a D-Wade hater man, leave me alone

Nah your classification is more accurate. Making the hall of fame doesn’t mean you’re a superstar.

From '05-'10, Wade was absolutely a superstar.

Ehh he was fine. Top 15 player.

[HumbleRen]

Nah your classification is more accurate. Making the hall of fame doesn’t mean you’re a superstar.

From '05-'10, Wade was absolutely a superstar.

Ehh he was fine. Top 15 player.

Not sure if you’re trolling or not lol.

He was easily a top 5 player when he was healthy for those 5 years.

[alan_156]

Forget everything else. Would you guys be open to trading Siakam for Moses and Kuminga package now?

yes but i've been onboard that train from day 1. idk about masai/webster tho

I would be all in for a Wiggins+kuminga+moody for siakim swap.