PG: Raps lose to the Nets

[JPriest]

Tonight was the 10th game in a row we have used a different set of starters. Unsurprisingly, we have been outscored by a total of 74 points (!!!) in the first quarter in those 10 games and we have had to fight back from early double-digit deficits numerous times. I know we've been dealing with a bunch of injuries and whatnot, but we need to stick to one starting lineup or these games where we just look completely disconnected for the first 6-12 minutes are going to keep happening.

Outside of that, both Scottie and FVV are going through a rough patch the last few games while Boucher has also been a non-factor off the bench. On the plus side, Siakam has been good since returning (22/8/4 in somewhat limited minutes at 32 MPG) even though it's clear he isn't at 100% while GTJ has been hooping off the bench. OG is still doing OG things and Juancho has been playing well over the last few weeks.

These last two games have been ugly and it's definitely concerning that we've fallen so far behind so early in the game due to our non-existent defence and effort. A complete team win/blowout against Orlando tomorrow then at the very least a competitive game against the Celtics would make me feel a bit better, but our lack of consistency this season is frustrating.

more than a rough patch man. he'll have a good shooting game once in a blue moon and loyalists will call for an apology, but his shooting numbers have been atrocious way more often than not and he brings pretty much nothing else if he's not hitting 3's. rather management actually follow through with their positionless plan and roll with a 6'7+ line up. it was beautiful basketball without FVV against the 76ers in the 2 games they won. likely would've been swept with him if he played all the games.

[mdenny]

Last few games that Barnes has been aggressive offensively he has tweaked something. Now it's pretty clear he's playing with a significant injury.

I don't like the performative limping. I could be wrong but it looked ëike play-acting to me. Didnt look like anything caused it and then he's right back on the court and fine? Might be a bit of a maturity thing going on there which shouldnt be shocking for a 21 year old.

He also played with alot of heart tonight. Especially in 2nd Q when things were most bleak. But his defense was particularly brutal. It wasn't a lack of effort as much as a lack of IQ which is more concerning tbh.

I thought the raps showed some comraderie in fighting back tho.

So you think he randomly decided to pretend he hurt himself and limp back to the bench? Wow. This one is crazy even for you.

The prototypical mdenny post. Say something nice about Barnes and then come up with multiple ways to thrash him (even inventing scenarios). This one is probably by best post from you.

I guess FVV had a great game as well?

Well it was a very strange play. He shot the ball without jumping from the perimeter without being touched. Then complained about a foul that didnt happen. Then limped away like he was finished for the game. Then came back on the court and looked fine.

And if you watch nurse's recent comments about scotty injuries/ailments...there seems to be a palpable disdain about it.

[Omzz]

Orlando magic just in time for fake win

[Tha Cynic]

I don't like the performative limping. I could be wrong but it looked ëike play-acting to me. Didnt look like anything caused it and then he's right back on the court and fine? Might be a bit of a maturity thing going on there which shouldnt be shocking for a 21 year old.

He also played with alot of heart tonight. Especially in 2nd Q when things were most bleak. But his defense was particularly brutal. It wasn't a lack of effort as much as a lack of IQ which is more concerning tbh.

I thought the raps showed some comraderie in fighting back tho.

So you think he randomly decided to pretend he hurt himself and limp back to the bench? Wow. This one is crazy even for you.

The prototypical mdenny post. Say something nice about Barnes and then come up with multiple ways to thrash him (even inventing scenarios). This one is probably by best post from you.

I guess FVV had a great game as well?

Well it was a very strange play. He shot the ball without jumping from the perimeter without being touched. Then complained about a foul that didnt happen. Then limped away like he was finished for the game. Then came back on the court and looked fine.

And if you watch nurse's recent comments about scotty injuries/ailments...there seems to be a palpable disdain about it.

You doubled down on it

[Jef]

1. FVV ain't it. Decent role player, but he ain't it.
2. Something happened in Scottie's personal life, for sure. He is playing like he is depressed.

[will]

1. FVV ain't it. Decent role player, but he ain't it.
2. Something happened in Scottie's personal life, for sure. He is playing like he is depressed.

Depressing when you know your growth is being stunted by fvv AND you are being forced to play on bum knees and ankles.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

1. FVV ain't it. Decent role player, but he ain't it.
2. Something happened in Scottie's personal life, for sure. He is playing like he is depressed.

1. Not sure what you mean by 'he ain't it'. FVVs a good role player on a championship team that is being asked to play an outsized role right now. He's not a franchise player. He's like a ginobili type of player on a championship team IMO
2. I think with Barnes, possibly injuries but more likely there are new expectations on him to perform a certain way and he's not crazy about them. Its just an adjustment to being a professional player where people whether it be the team or fans start having expectations and accountability and maybe he's not enjoying that portion of it so much. He's still a very good player and will develop fine but as a soph, this will be an up and down season for him.

[HumbleRen]

Tonight was the 10th game in a row we have used a different set of starters. Unsurprisingly, we have been outscored by a total of 74 points (!!!) in the first quarter in those 10 games and we have had to fight back from early double-digit deficits numerous times. I know we've been dealing with a bunch of injuries and whatnot, but we need to stick to one starting lineup or these games where we just look completely disconnected for the first 6-12 minutes are going to keep happening.

Outside of that, both Scottie and FVV are going through a rough patch the last few games while Boucher has also been a non-factor off the bench. On the plus side, Siakam has been good since returning (22/8/4 in somewhat limited minutes at 32 MPG) even though it's clear he isn't at 100% while GTJ has been hooping off the bench. OG is still doing OG things and Juancho has been playing well over the last few weeks.

These last two games have been ugly and it's definitely concerning that we've fallen so far behind so early in the game due to our non-existent defence and effort. A complete team win/blowout against Orlando tomorrow then at the very least a competitive game against the Celtics would make me feel a bit better, but our lack of consistency this season is frustrating.

more than a rough patch man. he'll have a good shooting game once in a blue moon and loyalists will call for an apology, but his shooting numbers have been atrocious way more often than not and he brings pretty much nothing else if he's not hitting 3's. rather management actually follow through with their positionless plan and roll with a 6'7+ line up. it was beautiful basketball without FVV against the 76ers in the 2 games they won. likely would've been swept with him if he played all the games.

Yep. FVV hasn’t been an all star caliber player since January.

That injury or whatever he was trying to fight thru has probably done permanent damage to him.

[Basketball_Jones]

Mediocre thread title. I guess we’ve stopped caring already lol

[mdenny]

So you think he randomly decided to pretend he hurt himself and limp back to the bench? Wow. This one is crazy even for you.

The prototypical mdenny post. Say something nice about Barnes and then come up with multiple ways to thrash him (even inventing scenarios). This one is probably by best post from you.

I guess FVV had a great game as well?

Well it was a very strange play. He shot the ball without jumping from the perimeter without being touched. Then complained about a foul that didnt happen. Then limped away like he was finished for the game. Then came back on the court and looked fine.

And if you watch nurse's recent comments about scotty injuries/ailments...there seems to be a palpable disdain about it.

You doubled down on it

Go watch it again. There is an immediate turn from fully braced outrage mode to ginger-stepping to the sideline. Are his shoulders injured too? Because the man's entire body was committed to that limp lol.

And bro...when u watch it again....take a look at the raptor sideline. Total indifference. Not even registering.

Acting like i'm always trashing scotty smh. He's a 21 year old pro athlete under tremendous pressure. We got ppl on this board who literally make 50 to 100 trashing posts per day about a given player. I make an observation and i'm the hater?

I dare you to find more than 15 negative posts i've made about scotty....EVER.

Meanwhile we have multiple posters on this board who make 15 or more denigrating posts about a player in a given hour.

Whar a joke.

[will]

Mediocre thread title. I guess we’ve stopped caring already lol

I gave as much effort with the thread title as the Raps did tonight.

[Tha Cynic]

I think Fred's play as of recent cannot be defended by any posters. The guy has been bad.

However, it does get tiring seeing the same posters rip on him while giving Barnes a free pass.

If you're gonna trash one player (and it is justified to be honest), at least be fair and trash everyone playing like ass and not pick favourites.

And vice versa? Those who continually find something negative to say about Barnes every game but conveniently say nothing about FVV who has been brutal for the majority of the season?

This take can also use some balancing to be honest.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

At least in the 4th we looked like the Raptors again. Good fight back

we've done this every blowout, the other team takes their foot off the gas and we pounce. I'm not holding much weight on these anymore

People are way-underestimating the Nets also. They're healthy and looking like they're getting over their off court drama issues. The only hotter team than them right now in the East are the Celtics.
Even though records are similar, we're not in the same tier as that team.

[pingpongrac]

Tonight was the 10th game in a row we have used a different set of starters. Unsurprisingly, we have been outscored by a total of 74 points (!!!) in the first quarter in those 10 games and we have had to fight back from early double-digit deficits numerous times. I know we've been dealing with a bunch of injuries and whatnot, but we need to stick to one starting lineup or these games where we just look completely disconnected for the first 6-12 minutes are going to keep happening.

Outside of that, both Scottie and FVV are going through a rough patch the last few games while Boucher has also been a non-factor off the bench. On the plus side, Siakam has been good since returning (22/8/4 in somewhat limited minutes at 32 MPG) even though it's clear he isn't at 100% while GTJ has been hooping off the bench. OG is still doing OG things and Juancho has been playing well over the last few weeks.

These last two games have been ugly and it's definitely concerning that we've fallen so far behind so early in the game due to our non-existent defence and effort. A complete team win/blowout against Orlando tomorrow then at the very least a competitive game against the Celtics would make me feel a bit better, but our lack of consistency this season is frustrating.

more than a rough patch man. he'll have a good shooting game once in a blue moon and loyalists will call for an apology, but his shooting numbers have been atrocious way more often than not and he brings pretty much nothing else if he's not hitting 3's. rather management actually follow through with their positionless plan and roll with a 6'7+ line up. it was beautiful basketball without FVV against the 76ers in the 2 games they won. likely would've been swept with him if he played all the games.

FVV doesn't need to shoot a high percentage every game to be very impactful though. I don't know why people still don't understand that he is generally going to shoot in the ~40% range as three-point variance and his poor finishing inside is always going to hold his percentages back. Still, he has been a pretty decently efficient scoring guard and not turnover-prone over the last few seasons while being a very high impact player on both ends.

Also, it is just a little rough patch the last few games. FVV literally had 26/7/6 on good efficiency against the Mavs last week and as a whole averaged 24/3/6 on 55 TS% in the 7 games he played without Siakam through most of November, which is very good offensive production. He then played a very good floor game against the Cavs before missing everything in the last two games (1/14 on 3FGA) as part of blowout losses. He has been bad the last two games, but so has most of the team. He's not the only reason we've been blown out in back-to-back games.

[Tha Cynic]

The question isn't "could we be better without Fred", it's "could we be better without Fred's unconditional 36+ minutes a game?" A Fred that is not part of the protected class, a Fred that can be benched when he has sorry performances like this. Unfortunately, less Fred is never Nick's answer. Quite the opposite actually, Nick's solution to whatever is ailing the team at any given moment is usually more Fred. And that is what powers the "trade Fred" sentiment, because the only way for Nick to play him less is if he can't play him at all.

This reminds me of the Jose Calderon situation all over again. There's some strange aura around him but the team is probably better off with someone else replacing him. FVV is best as a microwave scorer and he's no longer going to play this role. Beyond that he's not really someone who's raising anything on your team.

You need to move him before his new contact but you also need to find younger, cheaper ballhandlers who can shoot. They seem to grow in trees in the NBA so it's baffling that the Raptors don't have any of them.

[Rainman66]

The bench mob tandem of Pascal\FVV is just not cutting it anymore, this duo as options A\B has reached its ceiling Imo.

[pagal]

Tonight was the 10th game in a row we have used a different set of starters. Unsurprisingly, we have been outscored by a total of 74 points (!!!) in the first quarter in those 10 games and we have had to fight back from early double-digit deficits numerous times. I know we've been dealing with a bunch of injuries and whatnot, but we need to stick to one starting lineup or these games where we just look completely disconnected for the first 6-12 minutes are going to keep happening.

Outside of that, both Scottie and FVV are going through a rough patch the last few games while Boucher has also been a non-factor off the bench. On the plus side, Siakam has been good since returning (22/8/4 in somewhat limited minutes at 32 MPG) even though it's clear he isn't at 100% while GTJ has been hooping off the bench. OG is still doing OG things and Juancho has been playing well over the last few weeks.

These last two games have been ugly and it's definitely concerning that we've fallen so far behind so early in the game due to our non-existent defence and effort. A complete team win/blowout against Orlando tomorrow then at the very least a competitive game against the Celtics would make me feel a bit better, but our lack of consistency this season is frustrating.

more than a rough patch man. he'll have a good shooting game once in a blue moon and loyalists will call for an apology, but his shooting numbers have been atrocious way more often than not and he brings pretty much nothing else if he's not hitting 3's. rather management actually follow through with their positionless plan and roll with a 6'7+ line up. it was beautiful basketball without FVV against the 76ers in the 2 games they won. likely would've been swept with him if he played all the games.

Yep. FVV hasn’t been an all star caliber player since January.

That injury or whatever he was trying to fight thru has probably done permanent damage to him.

Injury:

[mdenny]

I think Fred's play as of recent cannot be defended by any posters. The guy has been bad.

However, it does get tiring seeing the same posters rip on him while giving Barnes a free pass.

If you're gonna trash one player (and it is justified to be honest), at least be fair and trash everyone playing like ass and not pick favourites.

And vice versa? Those who continually find something negative to say about Barnes every game but conveniently say nothing about FVV who has been brutal for the majority of the season?

This take can also use some balancing to be honest.

Should we do the numbers?

Before we count them i bet the dengrating fred posts outnumber the denigrating scotty posts by a factor of 10 to 1. What do you think the ratio is? Want to make a gentlemen's bet?

Why are you attempting to draw a clearly false equivalence?

And let's be clear about what constitutes a "denigrating post": calling someone a name, being overly negative without nuance, being dismissive, calling into question their character, using childish puns of their govt name, etc.

I bet it's more like 20 to 1.

[Potential]

I am officially getting sick and tired of watching this team. All this just to lose in the 1st and 2nd round every year. We know we're not good enough to compete and beat the Bucks, Nets or Celtics. We will never ever get to witness a championship in our lifetimes. What a joke

[hyper316]

I know Nurse wouldn't bench Fred, but just give him a DNP/rest day. Logging 41 mins with back problems not too long ago is not going to help